Options

Australian R18+ Discussion Paper Released; input requested

24

Posts

  • Options
    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Just be sure to let them know that the international community is laughing at them for not trusting adults with adult content. There are developing nations that have better policy than Australia does on this.

    Good luck to you Aussies

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    corky842corky842 Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I think this is relevant to the (dead?) discussion:

    http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2009/12/ftc.html
    Here's the easiest way to see the enforcement gap. Look at the ability of 13-16 year old consumers to purchase "inappropriate" content by content type:
    M-rated Video Games: 20%
    R-rated Movie Tickets: 28%
    R-rated Movie DVDs: 54%
    Unrated Movie DVDs: 58%
    Explicit Content Music CDs: 72%

    Ouch. If you'll remember, though, in 2000, 85% of test shoppers were successful in purchasing an M-rated video game. So 20% is just an impressive number in absolute terms, it's also a staggering improvement.

    The ESRB rating enforcement is actually working better than every other media rating system, so that should defeat some of the arguments. There's still the issue of shitty parenting, but that's a different issue.

    corky842 on
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    While not unexpected, it's annoying. Michael Atkinson wont back down from his stance on the R18+ rating. I admit that I don't know how this all works with the public consultation, though.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy
    I do. Parts of any community are silly. It still falls to him as an elected official to dispense with his duty in a manner that makes logical sense and supports his constituents, abhorrent as some may be. An 18+ rating would restrict the access Australian children have to games that are overly violent/sexual for them, and allow Australians who are adults the opportunity to see artistic content that the rest of the world is allowed to.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Damn I'm glad I live in a country where freedom of expression is guaranteed.

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I know, and the gaming community isn't very mature in any country. But that's not at issue here, the issue is adults not being able to buy adult material. I'm sure if they got rid of the R18+ movie rating, and he was outspoken about putting it back, he'd get the same response from a different group of people. There's always crazies in any 'community'.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    Big ClassyBig Classy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm surprised the government in Aussie-land actually limits game content so much, especially given the country is full of British convicts and pirates.
    Kidding aside I'm in, help any way I can

    Big Classy on
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy

    How juvenile a person behaves has no bearing on their inherent rights to free expression and free speech.

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Well...that sucks.

    Bartholamue on
    Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
  • Options
    PaperLuigi44PaperLuigi44 My amazement is at maximum capacity. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Now they're concerned about movies, too.

    This is getting ridiculous.

    PaperLuigi44 on
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy

    How juvenile a person behaves has no bearing on their inherent rights to free expression and free speech.

    We don't have those rights anyway...
    Now they're concerned about movies, too.

    This is getting ridiculous.

    Atkinson is being paid by Disney to ban everything except their movies, shows and games.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy
    I do. Parts of any community are silly. It still falls to him as an elected official to dispense with his duty in a manner that makes logical sense and supports his constituents, abhorrent as some may be. An 18+ rating would restrict the access Australian children have to games that are overly violent/sexual for them, and allow Australians who are adults the opportunity to see artistic content that the rest of the world is allowed to.

    it's true, and i'm firmly for an R18+ rating, as is pretty much anyone else interested in the industry

    but when the most consistent and vocal argument against you and your rationale is that you're a paedophile, i think you could end up with a much more stand-offish response than "when people start acting civil i'll certainly think about changing my ideas"

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy

    How juvenile a person behaves has no bearing on their inherent rights to free expression and free speech.

    atkinson isn't exactly a super libertarian politician in the american style - that's not an argument that would ever sway him. we don't have any real constitutional protections for freedom of speech and expression, for many reasons, not all of which are bad. 'freedom' is not the ultimate virtue to many australians

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    did you read that article? it basically said that the gaming community is so juvenile as to literally put death threats on his doorstep at 2am, and as such he's not going to put a whole lot of credibility into their opinions until they start acting like adults. he never said that his stance wouldn't change.

    honestly i don't blame the guy
    I do. Parts of any community are silly. It still falls to him as an elected official to dispense with his duty in a manner that makes logical sense and supports his constituents, abhorrent as some may be. An 18+ rating would restrict the access Australian children have to games that are overly violent/sexual for them, and allow Australians who are adults the opportunity to see artistic content that the rest of the world is allowed to.

    it's true, and i'm firmly for an R18+ rating, as is pretty much anyone else interested in the industry

    but when the most consistent and vocal argument against you and your rationale is that you're a paedophile, i think you could end up with a much more stand-offish response than "when people start acting civil i'll certainly think about changing my ideas"

    You could. But, well, it's his job to consider these things absent his own feelings.

    If he can't do his job, he should resign and allow someone who can to take over.

    Every elected official in every capacity in every country deals with the same thing every day of the year. The fact that someone else is behaving poorly does not exempt you from your own responsibilities.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »

    atkinson isn't exactly a super libertarian politician in the american style - that's not an argument that would ever sway him. we don't have any real constitutional protections for freedom of speech and expression, for many reasons, not all of which are bad. 'freedom' is not the ultimate virtue to many australians

    That's abhorrent. How on Earth is that libertarian ideology? It's just basic rights. When the government can tell you what you can or can't say, you have no rights at all.

    Goddamn I love America. I thought the entire Western World valued that shit.

    Hmmmm. Being American I probably can't help at all on this can I?

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    they aren't 'feelings', they're values. values that he must believe that he shares with a majority of his constituents - as different as they are to yours and mine.

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »

    atkinson isn't exactly a super libertarian politician in the american style - that's not an argument that would ever sway him. we don't have any real constitutional protections for freedom of speech and expression, for many reasons, not all of which are bad. 'freedom' is not the ultimate virtue to many australians

    That's abhorrent. How on Earth is that libertarian ideology? It's just basic rights. When the government can tell you what you can or can't say, you have no rights at all.

    Goddamn I love America. I thought the entire Western World valued that shit.

    Hmmmm. Being American I probably can't help at all on this can I?

    i'm not saying we live in a censorship-riddled society and important things are being left unspoken. but ultimate freedom is not exactly taken to the extreme here that it is in the states.

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    they aren't 'feelings', they're values. values that he must believe that he shares with a majority of his constituents - as different as they are to yours and mine.
    Oh, he has a value which says an 18+ rating is a poor idea?

    I thought you said he was just annoyed at the behavior of a subset of Australians?


    Because if he actually thinks not having an 18+ rating is important, then okay. If he's just decided that he won't give up the ghost because people said mean things, that is not okay.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »

    atkinson isn't exactly a super libertarian politician in the american style - that's not an argument that would ever sway him. we don't have any real constitutional protections for freedom of speech and expression, for many reasons, not all of which are bad. 'freedom' is not the ultimate virtue to many australians

    That's abhorrent. How on Earth is that libertarian ideology? It's just basic rights. When the government can tell you what you can or can't say, you have no rights at all.

    Goddamn I love America. I thought the entire Western World valued that shit.

    Hmmmm. Being American I probably can't help at all on this can I?

    Considering most people, even Australians, don't even know we don't have the rights, and it rarely causes an issue, I don't see how it's a problem.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    they aren't 'feelings', they're values. values that he must believe that he shares with a majority of his constituents - as different as they are to yours and mine.
    Oh, he has a value which says an 18+ rating is a poor idea?

    I thought you said he was just annoyed at the behavior of a subset of Australians?


    Because if he actually thinks not having an 18+ rating is important, then okay. If he's just decided that he won't give up the ghost because people said mean things, that is not okay.

    no, but it ties closely into a value that a lot of people share which is 'safety and protection of the vulnerable is more important than the freedoms of a few'

    what we need to do is not say 'but, but, freedom is EVERYTHING!'. that won't work in this case. we need to succesfully argue that r18+ actually offers more protections. that we're safer with it

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Considering most people, even Australians, don't even know we don't have the rights, and it rarely causes an issue, I don't see how it's a problem.

    Until you say something that someone in authority wants you jailed for and you have no recourse.

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I was about to reply, then I saw you're the guy from the Avatar thread. I'm not into arguing for the sake of arguing, so I think I'll bow out of this.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    We have all those rights, they're covered under common law.

    -SPI- on
  • Options
    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    they aren't 'feelings', they're values. values that he must believe that he shares with a majority of his constituents - as different as they are to yours and mine.
    Oh, he has a value which says an 18+ rating is a poor idea?

    I thought you said he was just annoyed at the behavior of a subset of Australians?


    Because if he actually thinks not having an 18+ rating is important, then okay. If he's just decided that he won't give up the ghost because people said mean things, that is not okay.

    no, but it ties closely into a value that a lot of people share which is 'safety and protection of the vulnerable is more important than the freedoms of a few'

    what we need to do is not say 'but, but, freedom is EVERYTHING!'. that won't work in this case. we need to succesfully argue that r18+ actually offers more protections. that we're safer with it

    Okay. Yes.

    Which is entirely independent of your saying that he was against the idea because people had been mean to him.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -SPI- wrote: »
    We have all those rights, they're covered under common law.

    Well then, how is it legal for them to do this?

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -SPI- wrote: »
    We have all those rights, they're covered under common law.

    Well then, how is it legal for them to do this?

    I said I'd bow out, but I'm a liar.

    Adding a new rating requires a unanimous decision by the Attorney Generals (there's one for each state). he's saying no, so no new rating can be made.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Okay. Yes.

    Which is entirely independent of your saying that he was against the idea because people had been mean to him.

    i think i'd clarify that by saying people are being juvenile to him, from which he can probably assume he's literally dealing with juveniles. particularly in a debate about an adult-only classification i can see why he'd soon enough rate other voices more highly - like the media and his own local supporters

    that's why i reckon the media will be the key to this dilemma

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Considering most people, even Australians, don't even know we don't have the rights, and it rarely causes an issue, I don't see how it's a problem.

    Until you say something that someone in authority wants you jailed for and you have no recourse.

    that's not really how it works. law itself aside (which i don't know a lot about), we have a strong critical media and if it percieves an injustice it would jump on it. we have a mostly transparent government which we are in great control over, so when our freedoms are being taken the piss out of a change will be made

    you can't take the view that because our freedoms are somewhat limited in some ways, we're likely to be bundled up by the aussie gestapo and put into a prison for making any contrarian suggestion.

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »

    I said I'd bow out, but I'm a liar.

    Adding a new rating requires a unanimous decision by the Attorney Generals (there's one for each state). he's saying no, so no new rating can be made.

    Why can't each state set its own standards? This guy can represent his constituents, but if you aren't his constituent, then fuck him.

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »

    I said I'd bow out, but I'm a liar.

    Adding a new rating requires a unanimous decision by the Attorney Generals (there's one for each state). he's saying no, so no new rating can be made.

    Why can't each state set its own standards? This guy can represent his constituents, but if you aren't his constituent, then fuck him.

    They do on some things, but a new media rating needs the consent of all of the attorney generals. Pretty sure a state can remove a rating, but adding a new one needs the consent of every state.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    17th_Knight17th_Knight Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »

    They do on some things, but a new media rating needs the consent of all of the attorney generals. Pretty sure a state can remove a rating, but adding a new one needs the consent of every state.

    Ahhh, that makes sense.

    I dunno, seems strange to require unanimous. 2/3's or even 3/4's should be enough to protect from asshats like this guy.

    17th_Knight on
    Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
  • Options
    theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I blame Western Australia for that part of the system. In order for Australia to become its own country in 1900, they needed WA. WA only agreed to it if they could veto a whole bunch of shit, hence the unanimous consent.

    theSquid on
  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So, yeah, there's a party that's running against Michael Atkinson in the upcoming election, Gamers 4 Croyden. They say they are taking it seriously but the R18+ rating and Atkinsons challenge of 'if you don't like it, run against me' statement is the reason they started. Atkinsons made some comments about them, but this one really stuck out.
    "I assume the Gamers4Croydon campaign will involve criminal activities and dirty tricks, which is what I've come to expect from gamers,"

    Really? I mean, that's low.

    -Loki- on
  • Options
    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Sounds pretty damn childish.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    CarcharodontosaurusCarcharodontosaurus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    o_O

    Great, so Atkinson also has a hysterical persecution complex.

    Carcharodontosaurus on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    PaperLuigi44PaperLuigi44 My amazement is at maximum capacity. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    So, yeah, there's a party that's running against Michael Atkinson in the upcoming election, Gamers 4 Croyden. They say they are taking it seriously but the R18+ rating and Atkinsons challenge of 'if you don't like it, run against me' statement is the reason they started. Atkinsons made some comments about them, but this one really stuck out.
    "I assume the Gamers4Croydon campaign will involve criminal activities and dirty tricks, which is what I've come to expect from gamers,"

    Really? I mean, that's low.


    No doubt they'll spawn-camp his campaign areas.

    PaperLuigi44 on
  • Options
    UnluckyUnlucky That's not meant to happen Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Link to the interview I am referring too.

    He has a son. Correction, he has four children, three of whom game according to him.

    Apparently his son is against him and his values, trying to argue the gamers cause.

    This is interesting.

    He seems very power-hungry. "What's cut out of the game because of my rule."

    Lol, he hates the OFLC because apparently they 'bend over backwards for the industry'. No Atkinson, that's just them being reasonable.

    Doubly interesting, Atkinson has deduced that gamers are all aggressive, immature pricks. Well done to the gents and ladies who propagated this idea. I do wish I could sit down with this man and have a reasonable conversation with him, or at least find someone who will.

    Holy crap, he admits it - most adults won't be influenced by video games adults. Ok, THIS is retarded. "As an Attorney General, I don't make laws JUST for the vast majority. I make laws for those special cases too, to stop those adults who are going to do something crazy."

    He....is.....letting the minority guide his judgement.

    ARGHARGAHRGAHR. The last 2 minutes of the interview just makes me want to punch small kittens.

    That interviewer was terrible by the way, she has NO personality at all.

    Apologies if I got slightly enraged there, this man's views clash very, very harshly with mine and frankly it's just infuriating to watch him be so wilfully....urg, ignorant is not the word. Spiteful.

    Unlucky on
    Fantastic
  • Options
    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    This whole thing just makes me feel so cynical about the political process.

    Everyone and their dog knows that one day we will have an R18+ classification for video games. Even Atkinson. He is opposing a change that is inevitable. He is opposing technology he is neither familiar with or understands. He is opposing it in a way that has the opposite effect of what he intends.

    Instead of GTA4 being marked as R18+ so stupid parents who don't watch what their kids do can be reasonably told what they are doing, we get slightly less prostitution or some shit and little kids still get to engage in the many vastly psychotic acts that GTA4 provides us.

    And I have to get a dude in New Zealand to buy me L4D2.

    DodgeBlan on
    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
  • Options
    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I love how he always uses shit like Rapelay as an argument against an R18 for games.

    A) That kind of thing will never see a release outside of Japan.

    B) Even if it did, it's above what an R18 would cover anyway!

    -SPI- on
Sign In or Register to comment.