CNN Live have him saying he's going to support it.
So, how do we go about making sure this reform is going to be a good thing and make sure it isn't further castrated?
I don't care about that - what we need to do is find out where Lieberman lives and works, then buy some billboard space smack dab in the middle of his view and get a picture of Nelson on there.
If its not as good as it could be, then its not as good as it should be; and that means that you cannot support the bill!
But seriously, I thought the plan all along was to just pass as much of the skeletal structure as possible, then start hanging some meat and muscle on it incrementally later. I dont understand why the progressives are getting more and more angsty about there being less skeleton than they hoped, when the plan was always to add more later, its just the initial birthing thats the problem.
Because they wanted single payer, accepted the public option as a compromise, watched it sloooooowly and agonizingly neutered and then dropped over the course of eight months, and now their mortal enemy is running the whole show and they're getting almost none of what they originally wanted.
I missed it, but Nelson is talking about something in the bill or amendment that makes things easier on women who can't or won't get an abortion. Does anyone know what he's talking about?
"The package closely tracks the $848 billion measure Reid (D-Nev.) drafted this month, before he entered into negotiations aimed at winning the 60 votes he needs to avert a GOP filibuster, aides said. Since then, Reid has made numerous concessions to moderate Democrats, scrapping an effort to create a government-run insurance plan and beefing up prohibitions on spending federal funds for abortion coverage, a change demanded by the final holdout, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
Starting immediately, insurers would be prohibited from denying children coverage for pre-existing conditions. A complete ban on the practice would take effect in 2014, when the legislation seeks to create a network of state-based insurance exchanges, or marketplaces, where people who lack access to affordable coverage through an insurer can purchase policies.
Insurers competing in the exchanges would be required to justify rate increases, and those who jacked up prices unduly could be barred from the exchange. Reid's package also would give patients the right to appeal to an independent board if an insurer denies a medical claim. And all insurance companies would be required to spend at least 80 cents of every dollary they collect in premiums on delivering care to their customers.
Every American would be required to obtain coverage under the proposal, and employers would be required to pay a fine if they failed to offer affordable coverage and their workers sought federal subsidies to purchase insurance in the exchanges. Reid's package would offer additional assistance to the smallest businesses, however, increasing tax credits to purchase coverage by $12 billion over previous versions.
The overall cost of the package was not immediately available, but aides said it would be more than covered by cutting future Medicare spending and raising taxes in the health sector, including a 40 percent excise on the most expensive insurance policies. The package would reduce budget deficits by $130 billion by 2019, aides said, and by as much as $650 billion in the decade thereafter."
"Reid officially filed the package early Saturday with plans to hold a first critical vote after midnight Sunday. Barring unexpected delays, Democrats were still hoping to push the package to final passage by Christmas Eve."
A timely gift for the ratfuckers and the teabaggers.
Reid's package also would give patients the right to appeal to an independent board if an insurer denies a medical claim. And all insurance companies would be required to spend at least 80 cents of every dollary they collect in premiums on delivering care to their customers
Wow, that right there is worth the cost of entry. Currently your only options if your insurance denies a claim is to pay for it yourself, as you cant switch insurers due to it becomming a pre-existing condition, and current law denies the ability to persue the insurance company in court for breach of contract or anything else, because the insurance contract is between the employer and the insurer, not the beneficiary.
21 million people is enough to drive the costs down quite a bit. Won't that make it accessible to more than 21 million? Or is the number accounting for that?
The above is pretty much why I hate Broderism and the fellatio he gets from retards who pretend they are better because they are centrists. At least Michelle Bachmann stands up for some principles.
It should be stated that "passing an HC bill whatever the fucking cost because we'll fix it later and if we don't pass one now, we never will" is a principle I think is worth standing by.
Wait I thought once it gets to debate it's a simple majority vote
nexuscrawler on
0
Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
edited December 2009
We're close to ending debate on the senate bill (cloture). Then it's an up-or-down in the senate. Then conference between the senate and house to merge the two different bills into one. Once the house and senate reps hammer out the compromise bill, that final bill must again go through each chamber's approval procedure, which in the senate means another cloture vote (and the opportunity for another filibuster).
If Lieberman really is under instructions to kill this bill no matter what, that will be the time for him to drive the dagger home, because, I believe, there is no more compromising or changing the bill to wrangle more votes at that stage. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
We're close to ending debate on the senate bill (cloture). Then it's an up-or-down in the senate. Then conference between the senate and house to merge the two different bills into one. Once the house and senate reps hammer out the compromise bill, that final bill must again go through each chamber's approval procedure, which in the senate means another cloture vote (and the opportunity for another filibuster).
If Lieberman really is under instructions to kill this bill no matter what, that will be the time for him to drive the dagger home, because, I believe, there is no more compromising or changing the bill to wrangle more votes at that stage. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah it'll take some real balls to try to fillibuster the second time unless something outlandish is added
We're close to ending debate on the senate bill (cloture). Then it's an up-or-down in the senate. Then conference between the senate and house to merge the two different bills into one. Once the house and senate reps hammer out the compromise bill, that final bill must again go through each chamber's approval procedure, which in the senate means another cloture vote (and the opportunity for another filibuster).
If Lieberman really is under instructions to kill this bill no matter what, that will be the time for him to drive the dagger home, because, I believe, there is no more compromising or changing the bill to wrangle more votes at that stage. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah it'll take some real balls to try to fillibuster the second time unless something outlandish is added
Or a very big soul tumor. Which isn't an uncommon feature in congress.
/sardonic nihilist whining
Kastanj on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
How high is the risk of higher premiums? Considering people now must have insurance, that can get dicey, politically and morally.
Depends. They're expected to increase overall, 10-13% for individuals, but that's before subsidies. More importantly, the insurance you're getting for that price is much better - no pre-existing conditions, no recission, no lifetime or annual caps, a much higher set of minimum benefits, no sex discriminiation (except for abortion, of course), and higher mandatory payouts.
I still think Reid's a dead man walking in regards to his re-election next year. While he is not responsible for the majority of problems the Senate has faced in passing HCR, he is the party's figurehead in the Senate and the progressives are going to place most of the Senate's dysfunction at his feet (if Reid would have demonstrated the possession of a spine at any time, this threat would probably have been mitigated). Mark my words, he is going to have a primary challenge, and he is going to have to really work hard to survive it.
The above is pretty much why I hate Broderism and the fellatio he gets from retards who pretend they are better because they are centrists. At least Michelle Bachmann stands up for some principles.
It should be stated that "passing an HC bill whatever the fucking cost because we'll fix it later and if we don't pass one now, we never will" is a principle I think is worth standing by.
how will we fix it later though?
we'd need the same votes
Read the original text of legislation for any of our existing entitlement programs. Getting a secure social safety net is a decades long process, those bills don't just burst Athena-like fully formed from the Congress. This is, hopefully, going to be the equivalent of the first Social Security Act back in '35 or the original Medicare bill. By the time we're grouchy old bastards complaining about kids today we should have a true UHC system of some kind setup thanks to later incremental reforms to whatever oversights, problems, or better political atmospheres that exists in later congresses.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
Qingu on
0
Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
We lost that on one of the many compromises with Lieberman, didn't we? They just have to be 'reasonable' caps now.
McConnell was just on the TV crying about partisanship over health care. Maddening.
No, it's still in.
11 ‘‘SEC. 2711. NO LIFETIME OR ANNUAL LIMITS.
12 ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION.—
13 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—A group health plan and a
14 health insurance issuer offering group or individual
15 health insurance coverage may not establish—
16 ‘‘(A) lifetime limits on the dollar value of
17 benefits for any participant or beneficiary; or
18 ‘‘(B) except as provided in paragraph (2),
19 annual limits on the dollar value of benefits for
20 any participant or beneficiary.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
Of course, Lieberman just lost the spotlight, so he'll start whining again tomorrow sometime (it's the Sabbath today).
enlightenedbum on
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
21 million people is enough to drive the costs down quite a bit. Won't that make it accessible to more than 21 million? Or is the number accounting for that?
Yeah, you would think that. But do you trust the health insurance industry to do that, given that the "customers" have to pay?
enlightenedbum on
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
Isn't this the whole "Selling Insurance Across State Lines" thing that results in everyone moving to one state?
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
Isn't this the whole "Selling Insurance Across State Lines" thing that results in everyone moving to one state?
Or is this regulated differently somehow?
It sounds like its regulated via OPM, which means it wouldn't matter what state you're in since they're Federal.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
Isn't this the whole "Selling Insurance Across State Lines" thing that results in everyone moving to one state?
Or is this regulated differently somehow?
That was my initial reaction upon reading that, but if you notice the last sentence is referring to the extension of FEHB provision.
So, this FEHB thing can bypass state regulations? I can't parse it.
Think of it like banks. You can be chartered in your State or you can be chartered Federally. Some prefer going the state route because its easier regulatory capture and tends to be friendlier other go Federal because they're huge.
From my reading it's basically that if you want to get into the 'exchange' you have to meet the federal guidelines as setup by OPM. Except they'll still need to have the 51 separate agencies since not everyone can get into the exchange because that would be a good idea.
If it's not and it's some bizarre caving into the whole "let's sell insurance across state lines" Republicans then may Willow curse them, but then it doesn't sound like that's what's going on.
Posts
So, how do we go about making sure this reform is going to be a good thing and make sure it isn't further castrated?
I don't care about that - what we need to do is find out where Lieberman lives and works, then buy some billboard space smack dab in the middle of his view and get a picture of Nelson on there.
I find this an acceptable outcome.
Instead of a public option, the final product would allow private firms for the first time to offer national insurance policies to all Americans, outside the jurisdiction of state regulations. Those plans would be negotiated through the Office of Personnel Management, the same agency that handles health coverage for federal workers and members of Congress.
Starting immediately, insurers would be prohibited from denying children coverage for pre-existing conditions. A complete ban on the practice would take effect in 2014, when the legislation seeks to create a network of state-based insurance exchanges, or marketplaces, where people who lack access to affordable coverage through an insurer can purchase policies.
Insurers competing in the exchanges would be required to justify rate increases, and those who jacked up prices unduly could be barred from the exchange. Reid's package also would give patients the right to appeal to an independent board if an insurer denies a medical claim. And all insurance companies would be required to spend at least 80 cents of every dollary they collect in premiums on delivering care to their customers.
Every American would be required to obtain coverage under the proposal, and employers would be required to pay a fine if they failed to offer affordable coverage and their workers sought federal subsidies to purchase insurance in the exchanges. Reid's package would offer additional assistance to the smallest businesses, however, increasing tax credits to purchase coverage by $12 billion over previous versions.
The overall cost of the package was not immediately available, but aides said it would be more than covered by cutting future Medicare spending and raising taxes in the health sector, including a 40 percent excise on the most expensive insurance policies. The package would reduce budget deficits by $130 billion by 2019, aides said, and by as much as $650 billion in the decade thereafter."
"Reid officially filed the package early Saturday with plans to hold a first critical vote after midnight Sunday. Barring unexpected delays, Democrats were still hoping to push the package to final passage by Christmas Eve."
A timely gift for the ratfuckers and the teabaggers.
Wow, that right there is worth the cost of entry. Currently your only options if your insurance denies a claim is to pay for it yourself, as you cant switch insurers due to it becomming a pre-existing condition, and current law denies the ability to persue the insurance company in court for breach of contract or anything else, because the insurance contract is between the employer and the insurer, not the beneficiary.
MWO: Adamski
21 million is the estimate that I've heard most often.
EDIT: Also, he'll filibuster the final bill if "material changes" are made during conference.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/nelson-ill-filibuster-post-conference-health-care-bill-if-house-forces-major-changes.php
That with no mandate means costs are going to go up quite a bit
edit: it's still an improvement
Sold.
how will we fix it later though?
we'd need the same votes
Wait I thought once it gets to debate it's a simple majority vote
If Lieberman really is under instructions to kill this bill no matter what, that will be the time for him to drive the dagger home, because, I believe, there is no more compromising or changing the bill to wrangle more votes at that stage. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't civics FUN
The subsidies are supposed to take the edge off while costs go down.
Yeah it'll take some real balls to try to fillibuster the second time unless something outlandish is added
Or a very big soul tumor. Which isn't an uncommon feature in congress.
/sardonic nihilist whining
Depends. They're expected to increase overall, 10-13% for individuals, but that's before subsidies. More importantly, the insurance you're getting for that price is much better - no pre-existing conditions, no recission, no lifetime or annual caps, a much higher set of minimum benefits, no sex discriminiation (except for abortion, of course), and higher mandatory payouts.
McConnell was just on the TV crying about partisanship over health care. Maddening.
Read the original text of legislation for any of our existing entitlement programs. Getting a secure social safety net is a decades long process, those bills don't just burst Athena-like fully formed from the Congress. This is, hopefully, going to be the equivalent of the first Social Security Act back in '35 or the original Medicare bill. By the time we're grouchy old bastards complaining about kids today we should have a true UHC system of some kind setup thanks to later incremental reforms to whatever oversights, problems, or better political atmospheres that exists in later congresses.
If this is actually nonprofit and it's the nonprofit thing Reid was talking about earlier, hooray! Except for the abortion of the abortion coverage, of course.
No, it's still in.
I don't think it's non-profit.
It's a non-profit run by private insurers.
Yeah, you would think that. But do you trust the health insurance industry to do that, given that the "customers" have to pay?
Isn't this the whole "Selling Insurance Across State Lines" thing that results in everyone moving to one state?
Or is this regulated differently somehow?
It sounds like its regulated via OPM, which means it wouldn't matter what state you're in since they're Federal.
That was my initial reaction upon reading that, but if you notice the last sentence is referring to the extension of FEHB provision.
Oh, and RIP Roe v. Wade, if I'm reading the abortion amendment right.
Think of it like banks. You can be chartered in your State or you can be chartered Federally. Some prefer going the state route because its easier regulatory capture and tends to be friendlier other go Federal because they're huge.
From my reading it's basically that if you want to get into the 'exchange' you have to meet the federal guidelines as setup by OPM. Except they'll still need to have the 51 separate agencies since not everyone can get into the exchange because that would be a good idea.
If it's not and it's some bizarre caving into the whole "let's sell insurance across state lines" Republicans then may Willow curse them, but then it doesn't sound like that's what's going on.