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Soldiers who get pregnant and the fathers could face court martial.

JastJast Registered User regular
edited January 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Us. General threatens to court martial soldiers who get pregnant, then backs off once people in the media call him out on it
BAGHDAD - A U.S. general in Iraq who listed pregnancy as a reason for court-martialing soldiers said Tuesday that he would never actually seek to jail someone over the offense, but wanted to underline the seriousness of the issue.

Last month, Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo issued a policy that would allow soldiers who become pregnant and their sexual partners to be court-martialed. But he appeared to back away from the policy in a conference call with reporters, saying the policy was intended to emphasize the problems created when pregnant soldiers go home and leave behind a weaker unit.

I haven't heard about this at all, and just read about it on NBC. Yes, soldiers getting pregnant to get sent home is a problem, but to threaten court martial? I'm surprised people aren't making a bigger deal out of this, it just seems so archaic. The general backed off from his previous statements, but for him to even issue the policy just seems crazy.

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Jast on
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    deowolfdeowolf is allowed to do that. Traffic.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Well, it is a violation of General Order 1 to have sex in a combat zone, innit? Seems to kinda make sense as there are folks who have used it as a ticket out of country.

    deowolf on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    You know as horrible as it seems, you do sign a contract to serve a specific time and not getting pregnant is easy barring rape/duggar sperm.

    Preacher on
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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2009
    How is it crazy? They signed up to be in the military, and using pregnancy as a free ticket out is insulting to everyone else they serve with. It's also worth noting that your thread title is misleading, because males who get soldiers pregnant are subject to the same penalties. Hell, it's even in your fucking quote.

    A duck! on
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    JastJast Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    You're right duck, I changed the title.

    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.

    Jast on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Because they're using pregnancy to get out of their deployment duty, which is:

    A: Dishonorable as fuck
    B: A great reason to have a kid
    C: Possibly endangering the lives of others

    Court martial em. You'd get court martialed for breaking your own feet to get non-deployable status, I don't see why another form of intentionally getting out of what you signed up to do shouldn't be punished.

    jungleroomx on
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Not really seeing the issue here.

    If you're going to be having sex when you shouldn't be, at least use contraception. It's not that hard.

    japan on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Jast wrote: »
    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.
    Seriously?

    Malkor on
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    RazzleDazzRazzleDazz Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I have no issues with this. Every soldier is issued the "no sex" order as a portion of General Order 1. Violation is explicitly stated to carry punishments under UCMJ. People have already stated the most pertinent reason for the enforcement of the policy, namely the loss of personnel strength in combat zones, in what may be critical job specialties. If you can't keep it in your pants (or at least be smart about it) for a year than you really don't have any excuse, self discipline is one of the most important things members of the military are expected to practice.

    Already in the article there are a few cases where the individuals have only received local letters of reprimand, I do not see any soldiers violating the order getting the full blast of a court martial unless there are some wacky other charges involved. Additionally the Inspector General cleared it as a lawful order, seems pretty reasonable to me.

    RazzleDazz on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Malkor wrote: »
    Jast wrote: »
    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.
    Seriously?

    Look man women are weak and immeadiately sleep with nearby men, science proved this.

    Link

    Preacher on
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    rational vashrational vash Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Jast wrote: »
    You're right duck, I changed the title.

    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.


    It is possible to be around members of the opposite sex and not fuck them.

    rational vash on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Jast wrote: »
    You're right duck, I changed the title.

    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.


    It is possible to be around members of the opposite sex and not fuck them.

    Pft, like you haven't seen males and females in the line at WalMart start spontaneously fucking.

    The general jus hatin'.

    jungleroomx on
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    KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    Jast wrote: »
    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.
    Seriously?

    Look man women are weak and immeadiately sleep with nearby men, science proved this.

    Link

    I know that I can't do my job whenever girls are anywhere near me. I mean, I'll be trying. I'll sit there at the piano but then a girl walks in and goddammit I'm having sex again.

    Khavall on
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    KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    japan wrote: »
    If you're going to be having sex when you shouldn't be, at least use contraception. It's not that hard.

    That's what she said.
    Sorry, I had to get that out of my system

    Kneel on
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    JastJast Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I didn't know it was part of a general order. I can see now that the rule is already in place, and he's just the first guy to really verbalize it.

    Jast on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Ahh, he ninja edited out the "That's what she said" followup.

    But yeah, man, the Army don't hate pregnant ladies, just people who use it to get out of their duty.

    jungleroomx on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Jast wrote: »
    You're right duck, I changed the title.

    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.


    It is possible to be around members of the opposite sex and not fuck them.

    Pft, like you haven't seen males and females in the line at WalMart start spontaneously fucking.
    Were I a cruel man, I would be putting in links to People of Walmart right now.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    What's a duggar?

    And don't women in the military can get those long term ' in the arm' birth control rods that last for 3 years for free?

    Casually Hardcore on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The Duggars are one of those 'quiverfull' people who currently have like, 20 kids. IIRC, Ma Duggar is the original subject of, "It's A Vagina, Not A Clown Car."

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    What's a duggar?

    And don't women in the military can get those long term ' in the arm' birth control rods that last for 3 years for free?

    I believe so, and they can also get free breast implants.

    Preacher on
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, just to play possible devil's advocate here,

    What should happen if you get pregnant while on leave? And then you return to active duty only to discover a month or so later that you're pregnant?

    Does that soldier need to be court martialled?

    lonelyahava on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, just to play possible devil's advocate here,

    What should happen if you get pregnant while on leave? And then you return to active duty only to discover a month or so later that you're pregnant?

    Does that soldier need to be court martialled?

    Being on leave doesn't mean you're suddenly out of the military

    jungleroomx on
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, just to play possible devil's advocate here,

    What should happen if you get pregnant while on leave? And then you return to active duty only to discover a month or so later that you're pregnant?

    Does that soldier need to be court martialled?

    Being on leave doesn't mean you're suddenly out of the military

    No, but if there was no intention to get pregnant in order to avoid Duty, and it was an accidental pregnancy, those do happen even with contraception and birth control, should that soldier be punished for a mistake that was out of their control?

    Yeah, I know it's a bit of a stretch, and I agree, getting pregnant to get sent home from a war zone is beyond reprehensible and they should be court martialled for such things, but to say top down all pregnancies will be punished witha courts martial, seems just a little bit... generalized.

    lonelyahava on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, just to play possible devil's advocate here,

    What should happen if you get pregnant while on leave? And then you return to active duty only to discover a month or so later that you're pregnant?

    Does that soldier need to be court martialled?

    Being on leave doesn't mean you're suddenly out of the military

    Yeah and its not like you can slip down the stairs and wind up pregnant.

    "Fuck guys I was walking down the street and tripped and fell on to a man until he reached ejaculation inside my vagina."

    Preacher on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, just to play possible devil's advocate here,

    What should happen if you get pregnant while on leave? And then you return to active duty only to discover a month or so later that you're pregnant?

    Does that soldier need to be court martialled?

    Being on leave doesn't mean you're suddenly out of the military

    No, but if there was no intention to get pregnant in order to avoid Duty, and it was an accidental pregnancy, those do happen even with contraception and birth control, should that soldier be punished for a mistake that was out of their control?

    Yeah, I know it's a bit of a stretch, and I agree, getting pregnant to get sent home from a war zone is beyond reprehensible and they should be court martialled for such things, but to say top down all pregnancies will be punished witha courts martial, seems just a little bit... generalized.

    Why? It's not quite the same thing as deliberately shooting yourself in the foot, but doing something that renders you unfit to serve should be something you take ever reasonable step to avoid during your term of service.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, just to play possible devil's advocate here,

    What should happen if you get pregnant while on leave? And then you return to active duty only to discover a month or so later that you're pregnant?

    Does that soldier need to be court martialled?

    Being on leave doesn't mean you're suddenly out of the military

    No, but if there was no intention to get pregnant in order to avoid Duty, and it was an accidental pregnancy, those do happen even with contraception and birth control, should that soldier be punished for a mistake that was out of their control?

    Yeah, I know it's a bit of a stretch, and I agree, getting pregnant to get sent home from a war zone is beyond reprehensible and they should be court martialled for such things, but to say top down all pregnancies will be punished witha courts martial, seems just a little bit... generalized.

    Welcome to the military, where if you're caught doing any sort of sexual position other than missionary you can (theoretically) go to jail.

    And yes, the command will take each of these cases on a case-by-case basis. If the woman is prescribed birth control and her hormone level is appropriate for someone who regularly uses it (and yes, chances are she would have a medical exam in her case), then I can't see her punishment being too severe. Maybe a counseling statement.

    But her getting pregnant EVEN WHILE ON R&R is still neglectful of her orders in the military's eyes.

    jungleroomx on
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Jast wrote: »
    You're right duck, I changed the title.

    Edit: But if you put female soldiers with males, what's going to happen? I think it's wrong that people are using it for a free ticket out, but court martialing them and the other party, eh, wouldn't go that far.

    It is possible to be around members of the opposite sex and not fuck them.

    In fact, I have based my whole life around this concept!

    Cherrn on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2009
    but to say top down all pregnancies will be punished witha courts martial, seems just a little bit... generalized.

    Actually it's not very general at all. As a matter of fact, it's very very specific.

    Don't fuck while on active duty.

    Sheep on
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Because everything has nuances. Everything has shades of grey.

    Also, just for clarification, what happens in the Israeli army when a woman gets pregnant?

    lonelyahava on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Because everything has nuances. Everything has shades of grey.

    Also, just for clarification, what happens in the Israeli army when a woman gets pregnant?

    Why should we give a fuck what happens to a woman in the Israeli army?

    And no, there are no shades of grey. There is no fucking while deployed.

    jungleroomx on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2009
    Because everything has nuances. Everything has shades of grey.

    Also, just for clarification, what happens in the Israeli army when a woman gets pregnant?

    Why should we give a fuck what happens to a woman in the Israeli army?

    And no, there are no shades of grey. There is no fucking while deployed.

    "We weren't fucking, we were just kinda gyrating!"

    Sheep on
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    EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    There is no fucking while deployed.

    *snort* that's a laugh.

    Ego on
    Erik
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Sheep wrote: »
    Don't fuck while on active duty.

    Wait what?

    You realize that active duty is any time at all you're serving, right? Like, I spent my first four years on active duty in an office in Mississippi.

    Quid on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    There is no fucking while deployed.

    Ahahahaha.

    Well, rules wise, yeah. In reality, no, but I have no real problem with people getting punished for breaking that rule when it ends up hurting the unit.

    Quid on
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    BergyBergy Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    This is the worst thread I have ever read.

    Bergy on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    There is no fucking while deployed.

    *snort* that's a laugh.

    Well, shit, I meant the Army wants us not to fuck on deployment lol.

    jungleroomx on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Don't fuck while on active duty.

    Wait what?

    You realize that active duty is any time at all you're serving, right? Like, I spent my first four years on active duty in an office in Mississippi.

    I'm not a military man, so I don't know the difference between active duty and deployment. Forgive me.
    Well, rules wise, yeah. In reality, no, but I have no real problem with people getting punished for breaking that rule when it ends up hurting the unit.

    Basically. If you do it, whatever, if you get caught and get thrown out, then thems the breaks and that's not really that unreasonable.

    Sheep on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Gay soldiers don't get pregnant.

    I'm just saying.

    Speaker on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Speaker wrote: »
    Gay soldiers don't get pregnant.

    I'm just saying.

    You'd be surprised what people will do to get out of deployment or get BAH.

    jungleroomx on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Speaker wrote: »
    Gay soldiers don't get pregnant.

    I'm just saying.

    You'd be surprised what people will do to get out of deployment or get BAH.

    Why, those trixy minxes!

    Speaker on
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    EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    There is no fucking while deployed.

    *snort* that's a laugh.

    Well, shit, I meant the Army wants us not to fuck on deployment lol.

    I know, sorry ;). What you meant was obvious, but it came out differently and hilariously haha.

    Ego on
    Erik
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