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What you didn't know about the games you play

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Posts

  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Is...Is that a piece of the goddamned code for Sonic Adventure?

    yalborap on
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    i honestly cant tell if TSR is just being a dickhead in response to of some the comments made, or whether thats actually supposed to mean something

    color me stumped

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Well, it mentions Super Sonic. Was Super Sonic in the final version of Sonic Adventure?

    Renzo on
  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User
    edited February 2008
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    i honestly cant tell if TSR is just being a dickhead in response to of some the comments made, or whether thats actually supposed to mean something

    color me stumped

    Is somebody focing you to read this or something? If you're not going to contribute, the least you could do is not derail.


    At any rate, I finally finished the beta Phantasy Star IV last night. Instead of picking through which of these screencaps are new since my last post (as I've been posting some of them on other forums and have begun to lost track), I'll just throw the whole sum of everything I've accumulated under one spoiler tag.

    Lots and lots of screenshots of an early translation of Phantasy Star IV below (ACTUAL SPOILERS INCLUDED):
    Somebody out there managed to snag over 1000 prototype builds of games that went through Sega of America's quality assurance and testing department in around 1994-1995. Among these were 5 early translations of Phantasy Star IV, each with various revisions and edits to the script. They are dated as follows:

    - May 30, 1994
    - Jun 8, 1994
    - Aug 15, 1994
    - Oct 27, 1994
    - Nov 7, 1994

    The entire game seems to have been 100% translated in the earliest of these 5 betas. Though the script is very rough, laden with errors, and seems to make very literal translations (instead of more normal-sounding English), it IS complete from start to finish. Considering that the US version didn't hit store shelves until February of 1995, I have to wonder what on Earth took them so long to get it released. It's not like they had much to do in order to finish it.

    I needed a good reason to replay Phantasy Star IV again, and this Sega prototype nerd-splosion provided that very reason. I've spent the past few days working through the game and have decided to share with you several samples from the May 30 version. Marvel at what could have been!
    The long long war from ancient times was finally over.
    The winner sacrificed the loser to the heavens.
    Four bells tolled. Four torches were lit.
    And the world continued for thousands of years...


    The Algo solar system, bearing its existence in the heavenly skies...

    In the past, within those stars in the system, a brilliant civilization flourished. The people devoted themselves completely to the pursuit of prosperity and pleasure.

    But, in a series of disasters the planet's management system, 'Mother Brain,' was destroyed. The result was the destruction of the first planet, 'Parma' entire population. The advanced scientific civilization was lost and the lives of the people declined into poverty.

    A thousand years has passed...

    In time a renewed strength and determination emerged among the people to try to make prosperity take root again. Due to cruel circumstances that would not be allowed to happen quite that easily...
    The long, long struggle of ancient times finally ended...
    The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens.
    Four bells tolled. Four torches were lit.
    And the world continued for thousands of years...


    The Algo solar system, somewhere in space...

    Once a brilliant civilization flourished here. The citizens devoted themselves to the art and the sciences, and life was prosperous and good.

    Then a series of disasters struck. The system-wide management system, 'Mother Brain,' was destroyed. So was the first planet, Parma. Over 90% of the system's population died, and the advanced technological culture was lost.

    Society declined, spiralling downward until at last only a few scattered groups even remembered there were once better times.

    A thousand years passed.

    At last, civilization is once more on the rise across the Algo system. People are once again turning to the thought of an easier life. Old knowledge is being rediscovered.

    But just as things look brighter, beyond a threshold long thought closed, a dark and very ancient evil stirs...

    Some characters keep their original Japanese names (Rudy, Hahn, Pike, Fal, Raja, Siam), others get close approximations or mistranslations (Ryre, Rena, Forn), and the rest are entirely different (Rein, Sela).

    ps4char1rudy.pngps4char2ryre.png
    ps4char3hahn.pngps4char4rein.png
    ps4char5pike.pngps4char6fal.png
    ps4char7rena.pngps4char8forn.png
    ps4char9raja.pngps4char10sela.png
    ps4char11siam.png

    Kyra is referred to by her Japanese name at least once though:

    ps4shesu.pngps4sela.png

    Lots of random misspellings, Engrish, and general oddness:

    ps4accumulative.pngps4aeroprism.png
    ps4cleanmyself.pngps4concerned.png
    ps4control1.pngps4control2.png
    ps4emotion1.pngps4emotion2.png
    ps4documents.pngps4fault.png
    ps4fire.pngps4journels.png
    ps4juza1.pngps4juza2.png
    ps4locky.pngps4mock.png
    ps4mountain.pngps4move.png
    ps4nothing.pngps4ohf.png
    ps4riotsquad1.pngps4riotsquad2.png
    ps4rabbits.pngps4shoes.png
    ps4squishy.pngps4supplies.png
    ps4terribly1.pngps4terribly2.png
    ps4terd.pngps4timing.png
    ps4tonuge.pngps4tress.png
    ps4unbecoming.pngps4wham.png
    ps4whopped.png

    The Eight Stroke stuff is even weirder and more inconsistent:

    ps4eightstroke1.pngps4eightstroke2.png
    ps4eightstroke3.pngps4measurements1.png
    ps4measurements2.pngps4measurements3.png

    If you're happy and you know it:

    ps4slogan2.pngps4slogan3.png
    ps4slogan1.pngps4joy.png
    ps4joy3.pngps4joy2.png

    Hurf durf you guys are stupid heads:

    ps4dummies1.pngps4dummies2.png
    ps4dummies3.pngps4dummies4.png
    ps4dummies5.pngps4dummies6.png

    Strange vehicle names:

    ps4landmaster.pngps4icedecker.png
    ps4flowmover.png

    Should be SPACEPORT:

    ps4airport.png

    Should be ARTIFICIAL SATELLITE:

    ps4manmade.png

    This NPC literally says nothing.

    ps4blank.png

    My personal favorite, Non Sequitur Raja:

    ps4hateyou1.pngps4hateyou2.png
    ps4hateyou3.pngps4hateyou4.png
    ps4hateyou5.pngps4hateyou6.png
    ps4hateyou7.pngps4hateyou8.png
    ps4patients1.pngps4patients2.png
    ps4patients3.pngps4patients4.png
    ps4patients5.pngps4patients6.png
    ps4situation1.pngps4situation2.png
    ps4situation3.pngps4demons.png
    ps4angryrein1.pngps4angryrein2.png
    ps4angryrein3.pngps4angryrein4.png

    Res instead of Gires:

    ps4reswork.png

    More non-words and weird grammar issues:

    ps4reveived.pngps4island.png

    Lashiec:

    ps4melting1.pngps4melting2.png
    ps4revenge.png

    Daughter actually does keep the "Fo...rn..." line in the final version. I guess they missed this one when they were searching for all the instances of his name to replace:

    ps4daughter1.pngps4daughter2.png

    Le Roof is a lot bossier and kind of a dick in the first draft:

    ps4protectors01.pngps4protectors02.png
    ps4protectors03.pngps4protectors04.png
    ps4protectors05.pngps4protectors06.png
    ps4protectors07.pngps4protectors08.png
    ps4protectors09.pngps4protectors10.png
    ps4protectors11.pngps4protectors12.png
    ps4protectors13.png

    I don't think Re-Faze worded this one the same in the final:

    ps4anger1.pngps4anger2.png

    The nature of the Profound Darkness's "dimension" is addressed entirely different in the first draft. The way it's phrased makes me think that this was one of the more difficult concepts in the game for the translators to explain:

    ps4talkfinal1.pngps4talkfinal2.png

    ps4darkness01.pngps4darkness02.png
    ps4darkness03.pngps4darkness04.png
    ps4darkness05.pngps4darkness06.png
    ps4darkness07.pngps4darkness08.png
    ps4darkness09.pngps4darkness10.png
    ps4darkness11.pngps4darkness12.png
    ps4darkness13.png

    Some snippets from the ending:

    ps4ending1.pngps4ending2.png
    ps4ending3.pngps4ending4.png
    ps4ending5.pngps4ending6.png

    And finally, a class of enemies that was cut out from the final version:

    ps4acacia.pngps4acacia1.png
    ps4shadmirage.pngps4shadmirage1.png
    ps4shadmirage2.pngps4shadmirage3.png
    ps4shadmirage4.pngps4shadmirage5.png
    ps4shadmirage6.pngps4shadmirage7.png

    ...Aaaaand I'm spent! One other thing I remembered but forgot to screencap was that all of the NA techs in the game (NARES, NAFOI, etc) are spelled as LA techs in this beta (LARES, LAFOI, etc). Weird.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    i don't know, i think i spent 10 minutes playing a sonic game on dreamcast 6 years ago... thats about all i've played of the series since sonic 3

    where it talked about super sonic, i assumed there was super sonic in the game, and they just figured out what that code meant by fiddilng, and ended up with a sonic with a super sonic head.
    but thats just what i assumed.

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    i honestly cant tell if TSR is just being a dickhead in response to of some the comments made, or whether thats actually supposed to mean something

    color me stumped

    Is somebody focing you to read this or something? If you're not going to contribute, the least you could do is not derail.

    i'm not derailing, i'm wondering what it IS. i don't see anything remotely "holy shit" worthy, and i don't think anyone else without an in-depth knowledge of game programming can either, unless there is SOME explanation. i was asking what the explanation was.

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Renzo wrote: »
    Well, it mentions Super Sonic. Was Super Sonic in the final version of Sonic Adventure?

    Yes.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Wait a minute.

    Something besides the Saturn used quad polys?

    EDIT: Actually, if that's what I think it is, there's probably a function somewhere else that would have converted any quad structures into normal polygons before they're actually rendered.

    The question is does it actually use it or just mention it?

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Wait a minute.

    Something besides the Saturn used quad polys?

    EDIT: Actually, if that's what I think it is, there's probably a function somewhere else that would have converted any quad structures into normal polygons before they're actually rendered.

    The question is does it actually use it or just mention it?

    It's a diagram of the model format used by sega during the development of sonic adventure. Sega used a proprietary model format which is very hard to crack. It's very difficult to take a compiled model and reverse engineer it into a viewable, editable format without a lot of ASM hacking. Thats just one document of many explaining how the model format works. We won't really be able to use it to crack models, but we'll eventually be able to learn how to make new ones.

    As for supersonic... he's in the game, he's the main character of the final act of the story (where you fight perfect chaos). What it's mentioning is how changing an offset managed to change the head of the sonic model into super sonic's head, and why it happened. In this case, we're examining the object structure for sonic adventure (which every object is built off of). You can see that the stucture is a linked list containing it's attach (the vertex information to actually build the part of the model), it's position, flags, and finally linking to it's child and relatives.

    For those who don't know how a linked list works, it's pretty easy, and deals with a lot of the basics of object oriented programming. The idea is that you create a recursive object which can iterate onto itself. Think of it this way... you create a structure in C called "obj" which has the attributes of it's x, y, and z position, and a pointer to another object called child, and another called parent. Remember, pointers are just small bits of data which tells us where the object lies in memory. So obj contains a pointer to another obj. So our OBJ looks like so:
    struct OBJ
    {
    int x, y, z;
    OBJ *parent;
    OBJ *child;
    }
    

    now say you create an OBJ and link it to 2 other OBJ to form a circle. Say our OBJs are call O1, O2, and O3. You can access the x, y, and z coordinates of the 3 OBJs like so:
    O1.x;
    O1.y;
    O1.z;
    O2.x;
    O2.y;
    O2.z;
    O3.x;
    O3.y;
    O3.z;
    

    Or you can access it like so:
    O1.x;
    O1.y;
    O1.z;
    O1.parent.x;
    O1.parent.y;
    O1.parent.z;
    O1.child.x;
    O1.child.y;
    O1.child.z;
    

    You can even iterate through the objects by adding a function to iterate. Like maybe something like
    OBJ *goNext(Obj *ref)
    {
    return ref->parent;
    }
    

    and then you could make an iterating object and step through the OBJs like so
    OBJ *i;
    OBJ O1;
    OBJ O2;
    OBJ O3;
    
    O1.parent = &O2;
    O2.parent = &O3;
    O3.parent = &O1;
    O1.child = &O3;
    O2.child = &O1;
    O3.child = &O2;
    
    i = goNext(&i);
    }
    

    to step through parts. Anyways, what I'm getting at is that by changing the pointer of a parent or relative, we were able to load Super Sonic's head on Sonic's body, thus providing headway into fully understanding the format. Really exciting stuff.

    Sorry for not keeping up with this thread but too much has been pouring out. And APZ, yes I'm Cooljerk, but I don't remember you from the scene. I've been a member since around 97, although I took a considerable break around 2002-2004 due to politics over at cult. But now that Pachuka's gone, things are good and I've been welcomed back ever since (probably due to my proficiency at coding and oldbie status). Anyways, I've asked before in the past not to link to any of the sites (as per PA rules and requests from Saz and Tweaker and such). Surely you've noticed the topics about the influx of new members, and remember when some new members flooded cult a few weeks ago.

    And yes, people have been threatened to go to jail. Remember when Pachuka went to jail? And even before that, there was the big scare when Yuji Naka and the rest of sonic team started coming to the site very often because of Sonic Heroes? Or when Chris Senn surfaced and told us he could get in trouble for the xtreme beta and stuff? I mean, if you're a member (which I don't doubt) you have to be aware of how xenophobic we are. And, to be sure, while DRX is our demi-god for right now, he's not really the be-all end-all of the sonic scene. Others have pulled prototypes (Chris Senn, for example, who was the producer and lead programmer for Sonic Xtreme) and of course pachuka (who was a tester at sega). The people at the sonic scene know I've been keeping PA informed about all this stuff (tweaker even posted in this thread earlier but I doubt anyone gave him a second glace, lol) and they don't mind but also don't want to be linked to or met with a flood of new members. As I said before, retro has a topic specifically about dealing with new members and info about the protos.

    To everyone else (namely echo) who keeps asking why we have public forums and such when we're supposed to be a private community - let me preface by saying that you can't see everything until you're a full member, and all members go through a trial period where they're evaluated on a base by base level. Trial members usually hack access to the hacking archives and the bullshit forums, but not really to the indepth stuff. The reason being that we don't really want to be buried in a flood of ignorant (used literally) topics. Our sonic sites and servers usually deal with getting pretty in-depth about sonic hacking, so someone making a post in the code forum asking "where are the tools to hack teh sonic R rom" are extremely looked down upon (that was a real topic last week, by the by). It's akin to going to a programming forum, and asking "can someone teach me to make a game in C++, I have no coding experience." It undercuts a lot of learning which must be done. We certainly welcome new members, but not in drones and usually only if they're pretty knowledgeable. If you want to get knowledgeable, then thats what most of our sites are for (like the sonic hacking wiki), but the research is kinda off limits.

    An example of why we usually don't want new members. On one of our bigger, main sites, in the forums, we have a section devoted to prototype discussion, which (for reasons I don't know) is open to trial members. In this section we've been talking about discoveries, theories, and generally breaking down shit like the model structure I posted above, in a sort of hive mind fashion. Well, the topics keep getting broken up by newbies who ask shit like "can someone post a link to the game roms for these prototypes?" which of course is met by a flood of "No"s and occasionally a flame war from the new member.

    Anyways, I'll try to keep up with this thread later, but I've got exams on friday and monday and I've been spending most of my time on the sonic IRC. So no more questions about where I am until I return, k?

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    and to further prove my point, here's a screenshot of someone (joking) about the problem of upcoming new members:

    greatfloodof2008zl1.th.jpg

    As DRX and Tweaker said when we first asked about talking to outside groups about the protos (and sonic hacking in general) - It's fine to talk about and feel free to spread it, but don't bring back people or lead them to the site.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    To everyone else (namely echo) who keeps asking why we have public forums and such when we're supposed to be a private community -

    You never answered this question, just prefaced it.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    To everyone else (namely echo) who keeps asking why we have public forums and such when we're supposed to be a private community -

    You never answered this question, just prefaced it.

    I've answered it several times in this topic and other topics, not to mention I've discussed it with echo in IRC. If you go back through this topic, I'd explained how we're a pretty isolated group and how we have stuff out to the public but keep the indepth stuff hidden.

    Not to mention that linking to a lot of sites is against PA rules due to use of... less than legal tools. Way back on page 3 we made a big stink about how people shouldn't ask questions about where this stuff is from and I'm pretty confused as to why it's being talked about so openly a year later. In any case, I still request everything offsite be kept hush-hush, or I risk being expelled from the community (as I was from cult earlier in the week before being reinstated) and people risk going to jail (lol hi echo). Not to mention it's a no-no on this site.

    To reiterate, this topic is supposed to just be a general repository for neat shit inside of games and possibly discussion about the development history of said games.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I also take pretty great offense to claims that I'm making up some sort of mafia bullshit. I haven't really been one to lie on this board, and when I say people can get into serious legal trouble from all this, there is great precedent for it. Primarily, our community has faced the risk of legal trouble several times - yuji naka and sonic team briefly invaded our site when we started talking too much about sonic heroes during it's release. When Naka found out about our sonic 2 hacking, his sentiments were that it's very flattering and he enjoys our enthusiasm, but if we cross a certain line that sega would bring very harsh legal action. And, as I previously mentioned, we do have members of sega and other game developers within our community who also risk losing their jobs over this. Chris Senn, for example, treads a very fine line - he's been openly giving the community every asset he had for sonic xtreme for a few years already (since he was producer and lead programmer) but he consistently warns that it's dangerous for this stuff to become too wide spread. As with most hacking stuff, companies are cool with it until it starts to get too big and too dangerous. We certainly like to keep on the legal side of things, but we're not too sure sega still wouldn't bring legal action upon us if suddenly we were the 3rd most visited site on the net.

    But to be sure, the information we come out with is interesting, and I think it should be shared.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited February 2008
    I've answered it several times in this topic and other topics, not to mention I've discussed it with echo in IRC.

    We have?

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    I've answered it several times in this topic and other topics, not to mention I've discussed it with echo in IRC.

    We have?

    we have.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    To everyone else (namely echo) who keeps asking why we have public forums and such when we're supposed to be a private community -

    You never answered this question, just prefaced it.

    I've answered it several times in this topic and other topics, not to mention I've discussed it with echo in IRC. If you go back through this topic, I'd explained how we're a pretty isolated group and how we have stuff out to the public but keep the indepth stuff hidden.

    You still haven't answered that question, nor have you answered it earlier in the topic.

    Why do you have a public forum when you want to keep it secret? So far, you've explained why you don't want new people to join, but not why you don't ban new people from joining in the first place.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    To everyone else (namely echo) who keeps asking why we have public forums and such when we're supposed to be a private community -

    You never answered this question, just prefaced it.

    I've answered it several times in this topic and other topics, not to mention I've discussed it with echo in IRC. If you go back through this topic, I'd explained how we're a pretty isolated group and how we have stuff out to the public but keep the indepth stuff hidden.

    You still haven't answered that question, nor have you answered it earlier in the topic.

    Why do you have a public forum when you want to keep it secret? So far, you've explained why you don't want new people to join, but not why you don't ban new people from joining in the first place.

    extracted information in and of itself is not harmful. Discussion of ongoing dissection of modern games like Sonic 360, is. Sega flat out doesn't care about us finding a sprite from sonic 2's 3rd build beta, but they sure as hell worry about us finding a playable supersonic in sonic 360.

    We have a public forum so new members can try to join. We're not completely closed off. But our big, legal trouble stuff is secret and closed off. And while new people can join, we don't like it when they join en mass. For the same reason PA has closed it's new member registration several times in the past. Are you guys seriously not understanding why we don't want to be linked to from PA, or why we prefer to be private, or are you guys just being pedantic? Serious question, not a flame. Because I don't really know how to explain it any better.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • Resident0Resident0 Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Correct me if im wrong, but isn't there a BETA of Sonic Rush TSR?

    [EDIT: Oops, just read what TSR wrote, but surely a BETA version of Sonic Rush isn't as much as a legal grey area as say, dissecting Sonic 360.]

    Resident0 on
    sig.gif
  • ArcibiArcibi Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The dude is just saying that they don't want a mass influx of doofuses going to the site and asking a bunch of questions that have been asked hundreds of times before

    At least I think that's the case, because I'm pretty sure being an idiot was what got me banned from the Cult about six years ago

    In any case I understand

    I really do like getting info on this though, because prototype stuff in general fascinates me

    Arcibi on
    GameTrailers | Goozex | Check out: Arcibi's Dev Blog and Robot House Games
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    Wii: 5024 6786 2934 2806 | Steam/XBL: Arcibi | FFXI: Arcibi / Bahamut
  • Resident0Resident0 Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Arcibi wrote: »
    The dude is just saying that they don't want a mass influx of doofuses going to the site and asking a bunch of questions that have been asked hundreds of times before

    At least I think that's the case, because I'm pretty sure being an idiot was what got me banned from the Cult about six years ago

    In any case I understand

    I really do like getting info on this though, because prototype stuff in general fascinates me

    This much is true, when emulators for PSX came out (i'm not gonna post links) forums were awash with "How I get Metal Gears Solids to run?!?11?" and it just became fucking ridiculous, people would ask for games that hadn't even been RELEASED yet anywhere, and then get offended when told to fuck off.

    Resident0 on
    sig.gif
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Alright guys, I contacted tweaker and hopefully he'll make a comment about penny-arcade and the sonic community. And for those who don't know who he is, he's one of the head guys in the sonic community, very respected along with drx.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • SonicTweakerSonicTweaker Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Why do you have a public forum when you want to keep it secret? So far, you've explained why you don't want new people to join, but not why you don't ban new people from joining in the first place.
    Perhaps I can add some insight.

    For the most part, the Sonic fan community is full of 12-year olds, furries, and complete dumbshits. To help avoid from being associated with these people, Sonic Retro is a tad bit harder to get into--we have a membership quiz and a system called "Trial Membership" in which we review somebody's posts to see if they're competent enough to warrant full membership.

    With the recent proto discovery, I've personally been much more lenient about who I let in. It doesn't take a lot to get in, but it also doesn't take lot to get kicked out, either. In this sense, I don't mind if we get new members or not--as long as they're not stupid. As a general rule, I'd rather not have to ban a bunch of people all at once because I have a low tolerance for stupidity. :P

    With that said, it would be extremely redundant to ban people from joining. It's not secret; but it's not for everybody, either. I guess it's up to whoever wants to join, really.

    Also, what Arcibi said.

    SonicTweaker on
    tweakersigsonic3sf.png
  • RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns.

    Let's get on with the information that is probably not for everyone, yet is still posted on a public forum. I want secrets.

    RichardTauber on
  • Resident0Resident0 Registered User
    edited February 2008
    A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns.

    Let's get on with the information that is probably not for everyone, yet is still posted on a public forum. I want secrets.

    It's not for them...

    It's for us!

    Resident0 on
    sig.gif
  • IceBurnerIceBurner It's cold and there are penguins.Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Im not positive, but I think it was Duke Nukem 3D that had a nook way, way up on a cliff that you could only access with the flight cheat code that had a texture with big white letters that said "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE"

    I always loved that.

    gta203secretsignlm4.jpg

    That's GTA3, by the way.

    There were a few such secret areas in Both Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior. The one Rankenphile is thinking of is signed by "LevelLord", A.K.A. Richard Gray (the letters are actually red). He was a level designer for 3DRealms and responsible for about half the levels in DN3D. I believe he's with Ritual Entertainment, if he's still active in the industry.

    My own fun knowledge: In Armored Core 3, I found a fun case of programmer oversight. The EX-Arena is 2 on 2 battles: player + 1 AI vs a 2 AI team, leader must be taken out to win. Apparently, it was also sort of an afterthought: When I was playing the top-ranking EX-Arena battle, I encountered the bizarre situation where I took out the opposing team's #2, and then turned to see my teammate and the enemy leader circling each other in the air--then suddenly drop to the ground and never move again.

    It seems my teammate had flown too high and gone out of bounds so he was forced to stop ... well apparently AI in AC3 is also forced to stop when its target goes out-of-bounds. You see, normally the only target for the AI is the player, who forefeits immediately for ring-out... oops!

    For me, this meant the #1 arena guy just froze in hallucination of total vitory...while I blew him away.

    IceBurner on
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  • LunysgwenLunysgwen Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I've never heard anyone say anything about this (ever.) so I'll share it.

    In Tekken 3, if you took that cute little dino (a secret character.), had player two select him, and then do the head butt (I think it was a long range attack.) both at the same time. One of the players health would regenerate - FAST. For the rest of the battle. This was entertaining to try in the training mode, as you could watch the numbers fly into the negatives.

    Lunysgwen on
    Falstaff wrote: »
    Edit: never let a bitch bait you into shooting your goo early. You'll end up too exhausted to do anything useful when the real action starts.
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  • PjstelfordPjstelford Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Lunysgwen wrote: »
    I've never heard anyone say anything about this (ever.) so I'll share it.

    In Tekken 3, if you took that cute little dino (a secret character.), had player two select him, and then do the head butt (I think it was a long range attack.) both at the same time. One of the players health would regenerate - FAST. For the rest of the battle. This was entertaining to try in the training mode, as you could watch the numbers fly into the negatives.

    miscellaneousgon2ba2.th.jpg

    Sup?

    Pjstelford on
  • ImpersonatorImpersonator Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I love that fish's face

    Impersonator on
    Bioptic wrote: »
    Lemmings was pro-Communist propeganda. All are created equal, sorted into specific jobs and roles that they will hold for the rest of their lives by a higher authority, and must sacrifice continuously for the good of the group. Success is measured by meeting quotas and nothing else. Also, nuclear holocaust.
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    You know for the longest time I've wondered.

    Theres a huge sonic hacking community and stuff, but there doesn't ever seem to be something comparable for any other game series. Is it just not as interesting as sonic or what..

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    You know for the longest time I've wondered.

    Theres a huge sonic hacking community and stuff, but there doesn't ever seem to be something comparable for any other game series. Is it just not as interesting as sonic or what..

    It exists for Mario games too, but I don't think it's a big/organised.

    I guess the closest other examples are mod makers for PC games.

    There was people who hacked Halo 1/2 on the Xbox to add extra levels and stuff too.

    LewieP on
  • peterdevorepeterdevore Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I think it's because of the Debug Mode and the whole concept of the emeralds being hidden, making it really hard and not necessary to become super sonic. The amazing hidden fun stuff you can achieve with sonic and knuckles and other carts. People have been finding ridiculously puzzling secret stuff since way back when the games came out, when we didn't even have much of an internet to talk over about it.

    As TSR showed, most sonic games have had long dev cycles and share a lot of code and assets. There were also many unreleased concepts and demos that were only seen through little magazine or promotional pictures or to the select few at trade shows. This explains why the sonic games have attracted such attention to their history and internals, there is just so much to explore.

    I don't really think there is another series of games that spans so many platforms, with so many games over so many years, barring mario maybe.

    peterdevore on
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Don't know if you guys have anything against NeoGAF, but there is a boatload of screencaps and magazine scans in that thread. Lots of pre-release screenshots that are drastically different from the final product, and games that got cancelled.

    Some stuff that really caught my eye ...

    Prerelease shots of Ocarina Of Time, that game went through huge changes in development
    Early Dark Cloud screens
    Super Mario World sporting graphics that looked more like Mario 3 (racoon tail and leaf)
    House Of The Dead 3, cel-shaded
    Shenmue for Sega Saturn
    Resident Evil 0 and Eternal Darkness on N64
    Too Human screens from the PS1 build
    And Metroid: Zero Mission with its orginal Chibi art style?!?

    If no one wants to go there, I can direct link to the best stuff later. But I won't have time until tomorrow morning.

    Dirty on
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    You know for the longest time I've wondered.

    Theres a huge sonic hacking community and stuff, but there doesn't ever seem to be something comparable for any other game series. Is it just not as interesting as sonic or what..
    I think it's less that other games aren't as interesting and more that the sonic fan community is magnitudes more insane than other fan communities. SEGA seems to have cornered the market of fucking nutjobs with this series, from the fursuiters and people that want to marry knuckles or whatever to the berserk hackers who go crazy when they find out a robot in level five was a different shade of blue in a beta build.

    For instance I don't recall any Mario fans going OMGWTFBBQ nuts when Mario's Wacky Worlds finally surfaced. It seemed to be more of a "Neat, that's interesting" and handled by some cross platform game preservation sites rather than some batshit nuts hidden Sonic enclave.

    Maybe the fact that their favourite series is all but dead made something snap with the fanbase, when the dreamcast failed they all went off the deepend and got whipped into a permanent SEGA frenzy.

    -SPI- on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    -SPI- wrote: »
    You know for the longest time I've wondered.

    Theres a huge sonic hacking community and stuff, but there doesn't ever seem to be something comparable for any other game series. Is it just not as interesting as sonic or what..
    I think it's less that other games aren't as interesting and more that the sonic fan community is magnitudes more insane than other fan communities. SEGA seems to have cornered the market of fucking nutjobs with this series, from the fursuiters and people that want to marry knuckles or whatever to the berserk hackers who go crazy when they find out a robot in level five was a different shade of blue in a beta build.

    For instance I don't recall any Mario fans going OMGWTFBBQ nuts when Mario's Wacky Worlds finally surfaced. It seemed to be more of a "Neat, that's interesting" and handled by some cross platform game preservation sites rather than some batshit nuts hidden Sonic enclave.

    Maybe the fact that their favourite series is all but dead made something snap with the fanbase, when the dreamcast failed they all went off the deepend and got whipped into a permanent SEGA frenzy.

    We've been doing this since 1996-1997.

    Also, hey hey... mario wacky worlds. We dissected that.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • APZonerunnerAPZonerunner Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Dunno if you answered me before, TSR, but are you cooljerk or something similar to that on the Cult?

    I was kinda on the 'other side' of the community, mostly at moogle cavern and whatnot, lurking at cult, so I know a fair few of the guys from both places.

    APZonerunner on
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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    yes, I'm cooljerk. I mainly was from SSRG and Area 51, back in the day I hated cult. The very first time cult shut down? It was because I got into a bitter fight with pachuka, and almost got him fired from sega in the process. Although, the upside is that I found the dude who ultimately gave us the sonic xtreme beta from the whole ordeal, although he didn't release it for years and years to come.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    A lot of this is facinating. I'm not a Sonic fan but it is interesting how much there is to research for curiosity's sake.

    Also, who the fuck would name a game FEEL?

    Arikado on
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  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Arikado wrote: »
    A lot of this is facinating. I'm not a Sonic fan but it is interesting how much there is to research for curiosity's sake.

    Also, who the fuck would name a game FEEL?

    Nintendo. Can be part of their Touch! generations line of games.

    The_Scarab on
    scarab you have mental problems
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    TSR, know what the cult/Sonic HQ hatred thing was all about?
    That always confused me.

    Xagarath on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Xagarath wrote: »
    TSR, know what the cult/Sonic HQ hatred thing was all about?
    That always confused me.

    Pachuka was a child molesting asshole.

    EDIT: And SonicHQ was furry central.

    TheSonicRetard on
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