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What you didn't know about the games you play

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Posts

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff regular Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    They probably put it in there to prevent you from getting stuck in an endless door loop like the original glitch. Just in case. It was a port, not a remake after all.

    They also got rid of the annoying stuttering Mario bug when you'd get near the edge of something.

    FyreWulff on
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    They probably put it in there to prevent you from getting stuck in an endless door loop like the original glitch. Just in case. It was a port, not a remake after all.

    They also got rid of the annoying stuttering Mario bug when you'd get near the edge of something.

    I don't know where the exact like between port and remake is, but nearly every texture and model was redone. The physics are different and the way some glitches play out show that the engine is dramatically different at a basic level (the water level glitches on Tall Tall Mountain are ridiculous in the DS version). The only thing really reused was parts (sometimes large parts) of the world meshes.

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff regular Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    Some of the models were in fact improved, however a vast majority of the textures are the same. They're just unfiltered now.

    Also, yeah, those water level glitches are rediculous, but you also have to have a launch copy.. any other ones have all 70 or so bugs fixed :P

    FyreWulff on
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I guess it's somewhere halfway between port and remake. They had access to all the original assets and code, but clearly a lot was changed and rewritten, but the goal was a game with all the same levels that played as similarly as possible.

    I'm not sure I agree with you on the textures. The filtering does make everything look radically different but it's more than that.

    A comparison shot:
    marios.jpg

    The textures aren't the same, but they look like someone opened up the file containing the art, brushed it up, and re exported it for the DS. Then when they mapped it, it was flipped around. I suppose that's what I mean by new textures. They're similar to a degree, even suggesting they came from the same piece of art, but they're not the same.

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • RocketlexRocketlex Registered User
    edited March 2008
    Yeah, the DS textures look sharper, like they weren't blown up as much.

    Rocketlex on
    While you were asleep, your windows told me all your secrets.
  • Waka LakaWaka Laka Riding the stuffed Unicorn If ya know what I mean.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Wow, shit I never actually sat down and did a comparison of the DS version to N64 before. I knew the models were nicer, but the textures are quite different and bolder on the DS.

    *Runs to get DS and N64 out (and clear the cobwebs) to compare*

    Waka Laka on
  • ronzoronzo regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Waka Laka wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    So, umm... anybody got any Mario stuff?

    If you time the jump right at the end of level 2-3 (is that the right one, I am saying this from memory) on Lost Levels on Mario All-stars, you can actually jump over the flag.

    After it is the same scrolling background forever, until you get time out.


    I mentioned this before, but just for you...

    nes-mario.jpg
    The bushes in Mario Bros were just recolored clouds.

    i cant unsee it

    ronzo on
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Rocketlex wrote: »
    Yeah, the DS textures look sharper, like they weren't blown up as much.

    The textures are unfiltered but higher res in general. They've also been tweaked in color. The DS shot is darker overall because that's the way it came off my camera, but the tiles and wall are still lighter in color than the N64 shot. The colors and resolution have been tweaked but they depict essentially the same exact thing. I dunno, I guess that pushes it into remake territory for me.

    Including this again for the new page:
    marios.jpg

    Another change is that in the DS version, ground textures have edges on them so they don't look so strange.
    marios2.jpg

    Mario was a big fathead on the N64. Side-by-side, the 64 version looks silly these days.

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    More comparisons:
    marios3.jpg
    marios4.jpg
    marios5.jpg
    marios6.jpg
    Look at the sky!

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • Waka LakaWaka Laka Riding the stuffed Unicorn If ya know what I mean.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Deeeelicious!

    Waka Laka on
  • BombBomb Registered User
    edited March 2008
    Not really a game fact as such, but one of the original xbox's concept names was the Three-Six-Zero (360)

    There were tonnes more ( most of them awful) but I can't find the magazine

    Bomb on
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Oh, here's a fun fact:

    In the North American version of Super Mario Bros 3 in the battleship level in world 8, you can duck under all the ships and safely swim through the whole level with ease. I'm sure you did this every time as a child if you were a little shit like I was. In the Japanese version, the back wall of the very last boat was 1 block too high to jump back on. You had no choice but to drown or let the timer run out. Insert comparisons of US and Japanese culture here.

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • BlazeHedgehogBlazeHedgehog Registered User
    edited March 2008
    Holy shit it's been ages since I logged in here. Big post time!

    With all this Sonic Beta talk going around, it just dawned on me that there's something this prototype collection isn't going to cover; the most recent Sonic game on the Xbox 360. I had the misfortune of buying that turd (I had a valid reason at the time, I swear - hindsight is always 20/20, etc.)

    So. Sonic 2006. I am dead convinced that Sonic 2006 was shipped long before it was finished. I mean, I guess that's kind of obvious just considering how bad the game is - but there are things in it that really telegraph this extremely well. Beyond speculation, I mean.

    The easiest one to notice off the bat is the fact that the game manual contains a lot of misinformation. Game manuals typically do contain material about a game that was usually cut before the game was released (but after the manual was produced). The manual for Sonic 2006 seems to do the opposite; the manual mentions many features that are either incomplete or missing from the game.

    For example, in the game, all characters have this meter at the bottom of the screen called the "Action Gauge". Quoth the manual:
    The Action Gauge indicates the amount of special power the character holds. This power is required to use Sonic's Custom Actions (P.13), activate Shadow's Chaos Boost (P.14), and use Silver's telekinetic powers (P.16). Using such actions will deplete the Action Gauge, but all three characters can refill their power by collecting Chaos Drives and Light Cores (P.10). Note that Sonic's and Silver's gauges also gradually restore by time.

    The Level Indicator is the 3-light display located in the right portion of the Action Gauge. The number lit is the level of the currently selected Custom Action (Sonic) or Shadow's Chaos Boost.

    If you are playing as Sonic, there is another gauge below the Action Gauge which will display the maturity of the Custom Action's level.

    For the most part, that's all true. Sort of. Where things start to differer is regarding how Sonic uses this "Action Gauge". For almost the entire duration of the game, Sonic's "Action Gauge" is locked at full power and cannot ever be depleted by anything ever. It never has to recharge because you never use it up. Let's flip to Page 13 to read more on how Sonic uses the "Action Gauge"...
    Purchasing Gems from the Shop will allow Sonic to perform various specialized actions by pressing the right trigger to leverage your gameplay. Custom Actions you've already gained can be freely selected during the Action Stage by using the D-pad. Note that Custom Actions require power on your Action Gauge, and cannot be used when the gauge is empty.

    All Custom Actions are upgradable (up to Level 3) by collecting Chaos Drives (P.10) -- leveling up the action will result in more power and/or better mileage from the Action Gauge. Also, leveling up a Custom Action occurs one at a time since only the selected action can absorb the power of the Chaos Drives.

    And it's here the manual veers wildly in to unknown territory. Ignoring what seems to be a translation error ("leverage your gameplay"?), it mentions purchasing "Gems" from a shop to customize Sonic's abilities. Infact, this is even mentioned on the back of the box. I think it was supposed to be a big selling point for the game, that you could equip stuff on Sonic to change his skills. There's one teensy, tiny little problem.

    None of the Gems you can equip on Sonic become available until after you've already beaten the game. Sure, throughout Sonic's main storyline there are items you can buy from the Shop to augment Sonic's abilities - but those are not optional, and they are not equipped, either. The game will say, "To reach the next Action Stage, you must purchase this item from the Shop that allows you to access it." Usually it's a microchip that is automatically activated the moment you purchase it (stuff like the Light Dash, Bounce attack, etc - standard moves that Sonic has had in previous Sonic games).

    The aformentioned Gems that enable the "Custom Actions" (as the manual calls them) only appear in the shop when you access the last level in Sonic's game - long after they become useful (though it's not surprising; most of the gems are either totally worthless or completely break the game). What's more, since Sonic's Action Gauge never budges an inch, the Gems never level up. They're always stuck at level 0, and they can be used as much as much as you feel like using them.

    That's just one example. The manual also references power-ups that don't exist, and incorrectly describes a number of moves characters can do.

    But that's not the biggest evidence. Moving up on the scale of what was probably no doubt a developmental nightmare for this project, is early beta screenshots (specifically, ones that were sent out to the press but then retracted almost instantly after being posted - consider them "leaked", I guess). Though most of them are nondescript, there are a number that showcase a lost feature that may actually be at the root of the game's largest source of slowdown:

    sonic2k6_daynightcycle.gif

    It's Day/Night cycle. It's unknown as to why it was removed, but it was - but what wasn't removed was one of the features showcased with it - the fact that every object in the entire game was self-shadowing. Despite them removing the Day/Night cycle, the game still self-shadows everything (and very poorly, might I add).

    But that's still not everything!

    The biggest and coolest mysteries about this game and it's total rushed nature comes from taking a peek within the game's main executable file with a hex editor. Discovered in there are references to lost game features and planned DLC that never materialized. The list is strikingly large:

    - The ability to record, save, and race against Ghost Time Trials (like a racing game). Maybe even the ability to trade them with friends.

    - Even more bonus/side quests for levels, like you did in Sonic Adventure 2 (Find the Chao, Collect 100 Rings, Etc.)

    - In addition to the already released Very Hard Mode DLC, there was a planned Super Hard Mode.

    - Additional playable "Episodes" (Story Modes) for almost the entire supporting cast (Tails, Knuckles, Rouge, Omega, Amy and Blaze).

    - On top of those, additional playable levels for everybody (Sonic, Shadow, Silver, plus everybody I just mentioned).

    - The ability to view the original, full-length 2005 Teaser in Direct Feed HD (maybe even "play" it; it did start life as a tech demo, of course)

    - Music packages, spanning the soundtracks of nearly every major release in Sonic's entire game history (up to Sonic 2k6). Each song pack would possibly replace the music normally played in the stages.

    - A lost equip to make Silver run faster (boy did he need it), and a lost Gem for Sonic, possibly one that would enable you to play as Super Sonic in the main levels (finally).

    - And perhaps the biggest: The ability to play as Metal Sonic, with his own "Episode" (Story Mode).

    Truly, to say Sonic 2006 was half-finished is being polite. According to the recent face of Sonicteam, Yojiro Ogawa, he took half of Sonic 2006's development staff away to develop Sonic & The Secret Rings (which, no so coincidentally, shares more than a handful of concepts with Sonic 2006 - equipping abilities on Sonic, and if you ever played Sonic 2006's "High Speed Stages", they're basically shittier versions of what Secret Rings ended up doing).

    BlazeHedgehog on
  • ImpersonatorImpersonator regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So it seems Sonic on the X360 is a huge fail?

    What about The Secret Rings? Is it any good?

    Impersonator on
    Bioptic wrote: »
    Lemmings was pro-Communist propeganda. All are created equal, sorted into specific jobs and roles that they will hold for the rest of their lives by a higher authority, and must sacrifice continuously for the good of the group. Success is measured by meeting quotas and nothing else. Also, nuclear holocaust.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Nice to see you again Blaze.

    Henroid on
    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
  • LewiePLewieP regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    Nice to see you again Blaze.

    That's some interesting stuff, I wonder if it would have turned out much better if it had been given more time.

    LewieP on
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So it seems Sonic on the X360 is a huge fail?

    What about The Secret Rings? Is it any good?

    It's pretty good. More than anything it makes me look forward to the next Sonic game, since they have some great concepts that I'd love to see them expand upon in the future.

    Speed Racer on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    sonic2k6_daynightcycle.gif

    It's Day/Night cycle. It's unknown as to why it was removed, but it was - but what wasn't removed was one of the features showcased with it - the fact that every object in the entire game was self-shadowing. Despite them removing the Day/Night cycle, the game still self-shadows everything (and very poorly, might I add).

    It also unloads and reloads everything anytime you see the loading screen. Hence the awful, awful load times.

    It's weird, because if you look at Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic 360, you can easily see how they used to be the same game. So many ideas from one are in the other, and largely the same. It's just a whole bunch of small changes which leads to an entirely different (and better IMO) experience.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • PataPata regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008

    It's weird, because if you look at Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic 360, you can easily see how they used to be the same game. So many ideas from one are in the other, and largely the same. It's just a whole bunch of small changes which leads to an entirely different (and better IMO) experience.

    Not to mention the stories feel kinda similar.

    Of course, Secret Rings is a lot more light hearted then Sonic2k. (And better for it)

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I really didn't like SatSR's story. "Olol now all the Sonic characters are characters from this book that up to now has had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic the Hedgehog!"

    Speed Racer on
  • CouscousCouscous regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I really didn't like SatSR's story. "Olol now all the Sonic characters are characters from this book that up to now has had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic the Hedgehog!"

    I loved the story. It didn't have any of the shit from the last several Sonic games.

    Couscous on
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Titmouse wrote: »
    I really didn't like SatSR's story. "Olol now all the Sonic characters are characters from this book that up to now has had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic the Hedgehog!"

    I loved the story. It didn't have any of the shit from the last several Sonic games.

    True, but I still want the story to go back to "Dr. Robotnik is kidnapping your friends and turning them into robots! Go kick his ass. Also, Chaos Emeralds?"

    Speed Racer on
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    More comparisons:
    marios3.jpg
    marios4.jpg
    marios5.jpg
    marios6.jpg
    Look at the sky!

    What I liked most about the DS version is that they took most if not all sprite-based objects and made them actual three-dimensional objects, such as the bom-ombs and coins.

    maximumzero on
    FU7kFbw.png
    Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    sonic2k6_daynightcycle.gif

    It's Day/Night cycle. It's unknown as to why it was removed, but it was - but what wasn't removed was one of the features showcased with it - the fact that every object in the entire game was self-shadowing. Despite them removing the Day/Night cycle, the game still self-shadows everything (and very poorly, might I add).

    It also unloads and reloads everything anytime you see the loading screen. Hence the awful, awful load times.

    It's weird, because if you look at Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic 360, you can easily see how they used to be the same game. So many ideas from one are in the other, and largely the same. It's just a whole bunch of small changes which leads to an entirely different (and better IMO) experience.

    I remember seeing videos of this feature...the day/night change. At the E3 prior to the game coming out, I believe.

    maximumzero on
    FU7kFbw.png
    Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
  • BlazeHedgehogBlazeHedgehog Registered User
    edited March 2008
    sonic2k6_daynightcycle.gif

    It's Day/Night cycle. It's unknown as to why it was removed, but it was - but what wasn't removed was one of the features showcased with it - the fact that every object in the entire game was self-shadowing. Despite them removing the Day/Night cycle, the game still self-shadows everything (and very poorly, might I add).

    It also unloads and reloads everything anytime you see the loading screen. Hence the awful, awful load times.

    It's weird, because if you look at Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic 360, you can easily see how they used to be the same game. So many ideas from one are in the other, and largely the same. It's just a whole bunch of small changes which leads to an entirely different (and better IMO) experience.

    I remember seeing videos of this feature...the day/night change. At the E3 prior to the game coming out, I believe.

    Yeah, when they first showed actual gameplay, one of the things they did was pull the camera out and showcase the day/night cycle.

    BlazeHedgehog on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Good grief, Mario 64 on the DS looks a hell of a lot better. O.o

    Henroid on
    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
  • DirtyDirty regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    Good grief, Mario 64 on the DS looks a hell of a lot better. O.o

    I know, I played Mario 64 on the Wii's VC after playing the DS version. I really wish they could put the DS version on the Wii. Not only did I dig the improved visuals, but I enjoyed playing as the different characters as well. All they would have to do is ditch the minigames.

    Dirty on
  • JoJoHoraHoraJoJoHoraHora regular ItalyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Here's a couple of things about Super Mario Bros 3 I only now noticed.


    World 3:

    smb3world3wb6.jpg

    The islands toward the middle with the 2 houses are shaped like a mushroom house, with lakes as spots and a green hill as the door. The islands on the far right with the castle are shaped like japan.



    World 7 is even better:

    smb3world7vs7.jpg

    a series of tubes :P

    JoJoHoraHora on
    steam_sig.png
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I feel like an idiot for never noticing that about Mario 3.

    Henroid on
    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
  • DirtyDirty regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    That's awesome. The only one I noticed when I was a kid was the group of islands that resemble Japan.

    Dirty on
  • LewiePLewieP regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    I feel like an idiot for never noticing that about Mario 3.

    LewieP on
  • Waka LakaWaka Laka Riding the stuffed Unicorn If ya know what I mean.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I feel like an idiot for never noticing that about Mario 3.

    I felt like enogh of a idiot about the whole cloud/bush thing in 1. That 3 stuff is rad.

    Waka Laka on
  • CouscousCouscous regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Waka Laka wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I feel like an idiot for never noticing that about Mario 3.

    I felt like enogh of a idiot about the whole cloud/bush thing in 1. That 3 stuff is rad.

    I felt like an idiot for not knowing about the arrow in the FedEx logo.

    Couscous on
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Titmouse wrote: »
    I felt like an idiot for not knowing about the arrow in the FedEx logo.

    You're not alone, man.

    plufim on
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
  • ReynoldsReynolds Raving Rabbit Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    plufim wrote: »
    Titmouse wrote: »
    I felt like an idiot for not knowing about the arrow in the FedEx logo.

    You're not alone, man.

    Mind blown.

    Reynolds on
    OGueI9Q.gif
  • Zealous OneZealous One regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Haha, heard about the FedEx thing before, and it's impossible to unsee now.

    I'm wondering if someone can explain an odd thing that happened to me once with Super Mario All-stars (SNES). Long ago when beating an ordinary stage in Super Mario Bros., I jumped right about in the middle of the flagpole and instead of a point bonus, a 1UP appeared (you know, the orange font 1UP sprite). I never saw it happen again, and never knew what caused it. Anyone ever have that happen, or know why it did?

    Zealous One on
    sig.gif
  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User
    edited March 2008
    I'm wondering if someone can explain an odd thing that happened to me once with Super Mario All-stars (SNES). Long ago when beating an ordinary stage in Super Mario Bros., I jumped right about in the middle of the flagpole and instead of a point bonus, a 1UP appeared (you know, the orange font 1UP sprite). I never saw it happen again, and never knew what caused it. Anyone ever have that happen, or know why it did?
    I am fairly certain that this only works in Lost Levels / SMB2J.

    Clear a stage with a multiple of 11 coins (00 also works). Touch the flagpole when the ones digit in the timer matches the number of coins (as in, if you have 33 coins, touch the flagpole at time xx3). You'll receive a 1UP.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
  • Zealous OneZealous One regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I'm wondering if someone can explain an odd thing that happened to me once with Super Mario All-stars (SNES). Long ago when beating an ordinary stage in Super Mario Bros., I jumped right about in the middle of the flagpole and instead of a point bonus, a 1UP appeared (you know, the orange font 1UP sprite). I never saw it happen again, and never knew what caused it. Anyone ever have that happen, or know why it did?
    I am fairly certain that this only works in Lost Levels / SMB2J.

    Clear a stage with a multiple of 11 coins (00 also works). Touch the flagpole when the ones digit in the timer matches the number of coins (as in, if you have 33 coins, touch the flagpole at time xx3). You'll receive a 1UP.

    So that's what it was (it probably was Lost Levels, I didn't remember exactly which one). Good find, and thanks!

    Zealous One on
    sig.gif
  • randombattlerandombattle regular Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Sonic & The Secret Rings (which, no so coincidentally, shares more than a handful of concepts with Sonic 2006 - equipping abilities on Sonic, and if you ever played Sonic 2006's "High Speed Stages", they're basically shittier versions of what Secret Rings ended up doing).

    Not to mention a lot of the "new" features for Secret Rings appeared in Shadow the Hedgehog too, stuff like the invincible super dashes and bullet time slow mo all showed up in Shadow working almost exactly the same way as in Secret Rings.

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User
    edited March 2008
    you know what? the stuff about Sonic and stuff really got me thinking...

    why on earth can't we get a GOOD next gen Sonic that's 2D? do they just hate making good games?

    and for that matter, why not a new 2D castlevania? or one where they spend more than 6 minutes making the level design? why can't there be a new Secret of Mana game that doesn't suck? can't they make it like Secret of Mana and be done with it and have it be good?

    there are so many more examples I could give, but those are the best I can think of right now. Why? why on earth is it so hard for these companies to just....give the fans of said series' what they want? I'm ALL for innovation and new territories being tread on old favorites, but not when you get Dawn of Mana or Sonic 2k6. Yaknow it doesn't even HAVE to be 2D, but clearly Sonic Team has done nothing but prove time and time again that simply put a 3D sonic just isn't as good as a 2D sonic. Yeah, adventure 1 was good, but Sonic 1, 2, 3, CD, rush and rush adventure were all better.

    I'll come up with cool info on games we all play, but I just wanted to post this. It seriously bothers me when dev studio's continue to make bad choices when there are obviously better ones to take.

    DarkSymphony on
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