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What you didn't know about the games you play

1356731

Posts

  • SlandererSlanderer Registered User
    edited January 2007
    I'm not sure if this counts as a glitch or not, but...

    I was playing Mario RPG with a friend. He'd previously beaten it, and was replaying it. We had been playing all afternoon, just coming up to a bossor something, and it froze. Just froze, with some strange shark-man on screen. He went to grab the cart and it was hot enough for him to jump back. We let it cool, and came back to find that all the saves were wiped.

    Slanderer on
    Midshipman wrote:
    Looks like the Catholic Church would have fired the Virgin Mary if they had been in business back then.
    Hey, if God had sent an angel down to the principal's office that said, "Don't fire the bitch, the big man knocked her up." I am sure he would have given it due consideration.
    Wii Code: 1231 4448 8299 3147 ((Send me a PM and come join the party))
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Does this count?

    13.gif
    smb3lost08us1zb8.gif



    There was a PC-88 version. The game is a completely new game. Hudson somehow got the rights to make some Mario games for the PC-88. There were at least two other games.
    The game is *not* that insanely difficult Japanese Super Mario Brothers 2 that's featured in Mario All Stars.

    * The levels are completely different
    * The screen pans like the original Zelda did when you arrive at the edge
    * Rolling turtle shells will bounce off the right edge of the screen
    * Enemies can walk off the left edge of the screen and back
    * Mario's physics are slightly different. He feels heavier and kicks into sprints faster, so making small adjustments to where you are standing and clearing jumps becomes much more difficult. The physics are just impossible.
    * Hitting a koopa from beneath a brick will send it flying across the screen like a kick would in one shot
    * There is no pause when you get a mushroom/fire plant
    * Fireballs are insanely fast
    * Colors are yellowish
    * Super Mario has brown hair instead of red (as he should!)
    * Music sounds like the original but noticably a little off
    * I can't beat this game yet, it's hard as Summa's head. If you can get past World 2-1 you're my hero.
    Smbspecial.gif
    You can find some videos by searching for Bros. Special on youtube.

    Some unused sprites from SMW2:
    smw2unused2jj2.gif
    smw2unused1dp9.gif

    Couscous on
  • RaereRaere Registered User
    edited January 2007
    All Pokemon glitches. Missingno was awesome. I enjoyed telling my friends that I found Pokemon #152.

    Raere on
    Raere.png
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Selecting Spring Yard Zone brings us to the most interesting level in all of sonic lore - The Hidden Palace Zone.

    NOTE TO EVERYONE: The mods said "Just be delicate." Now, I have a lot of shit to talk about, and keep this in mind that we're being "delicate." So don't ask questions, and don't be dumb in regards to this section. Don't ask, don't tell, got it?

    First and foremost: The level can be played in the final version of Sonic 2. Using a Pro-Action replay, enter the following codes:

    Code 1 000080:322F
    Code 2 000080:322F FFFE10: 0001
    Code 3 FFFE1F: 0000

    Alternatively, enter the following game genie code:

    ACLA-ATD4

    Then, enter the level select code, and select death egg zone. Viola, what remains of Hidden Palace Zone. Some screenshots:

    snap009oy8.gif
    snap006wu0.gif
    tube1ma9.gif
    snap005fy6.gif

    Now, you're probably asking "What the fuck is all that purple shit?"

    Well, first, the facts - Hidden Palace Zone, as it once existed, is NOT in the final game. It's impossible for them to completely delete a level, so the memory address, name, music (track 10 in the sound test), and ring layout are all still there. Rather, the memory pointer that lets you access the zone, the level layout, and the art were removed to essentially "get rid of" the level. Think of this as Sonic 2's hot coffee.

    So what is showing up? What ever the hell is in the genesis' VDP ram at the time. The way it works is that the game requests information in the cartridge that isn't there. What it's supposed to do it look inside the cart, find it, then copy the info into ram, and then build the level. Only the info it's requesting isn't there. So nothing is loaded, so the game displays WHATEVER is left in the ram. What we're seeing isn't neccessarily level info - it could be the GPU trying to render data from a music clip. Or maybe from the actual engine algorithms. Who knows. It changes everytime.

    What's pretty neat is that you can go to previous levels and then load HPZ and it'll be a little more complete. Particularly, if you go to oil ocean zone and then immediately switch to HPZ, a lot of the level gets recreated using Oil Ocean Zone's shit. It's not playable, but it's a bit more managable.

    So with that in mind, what is the level supposed to be? Let's look at pre-release screenshots:

    pal1qb4.jpg
    compare1ahj8.jpg
    pal2pt2gk2.jpg
    pal5fs3.jpg

    As we can see, a lot of shit was done for this zone. Indeed, it was probably the first level they began work on. Official reasons for the zone's deletion is space reasons, but examining the game code, that's bullshit. So we don't know WHY the level was deleted. but we do know a lot more about the level, that I'll get into in a bit.

    First, we should note that there are some neat similarities between pre-release images and what's left of the final version. Check this out:

    pal3jc6.jpg

    This image of a tube was shown off in a lot of magazines...

    tube2kz6.gif

    And this spot exists in the final version. You can't tell from the picture, but when you go to that spot, sonic rolls up into a ball and goes down a tube. They're the same spot.

    compare1ahj8.jpg
    pal8ly8.gif

    Another spot that matches up. You can actually go through screenshots and match up a lot of spots in the level.

    But there's more...

    EDIT: Fixed that image...

    TheSonicRetard on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Damn straight theres more.

    Get to it!

    you're awesome

    Bacon-BuTTy on
    Automasig.jpg
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I just remembered an awesome glitch from Sonic the Hedgehog Master System. (its not just you that can do this TSR :P )

    on act one of Green hill zone, there was one of those slopes with a curve at the bottom, for you to roll/run down and jump at the bottom, but if you were invincable and had 'fast boot' when you did it, it was possible to fly of the top of the level, if that happened, sonic would dissapear, and the screen would pan to the right very very fast, scrolling up and down randomly. eventually it wold get to the end of the level, and drop you right befor the end.

    I could do it pretty regularly back in the day.

    LewieP on
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Good old hidden palace. I remember some people trying to claim the hidden palace zone used in sonic and knuckles was just SEGA reusing an old level removed from sonic 2, when of course that is in name only.

    Anyway, bring on the wood zone!

    plufim on
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Wow.

    I'm real impressed about the engine that the Sonic games used.

    Had no idea it was so complex.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    NOTE TO EVERYONE: The mods said "Just be delicate." Now, I have a lot of shit to talk about, and keep this in mind that we're being "delicate." So don't ask questions, and don't be dumb in regards to this section. Don't ask, don't tell, got it? AGAIN: DON'T PM ME ABOUT THIS SHIT, DON'T ASK ABOUT IT, JUST READ.

    So, to find out more about the hidden palace zone, let's look at the prerelease version.

    We don't know how many prerelease versions of HPZ exist, but we know that at one point the level went through a pretty drastic change, particularly in the background area. In the pre-release version, the background looks like this:

    compare1btt4.gif

    Compare that to the screenshots that were shown off to magazines...

    compare1ahj8.jpg

    And we see that, indeed, the level changed pretty dramatically at one point. Which background came first is the matter of debate. A single object was found in the prerelease:

    pal121lh3.gif

    This object has causes much debate. Why?

    compare1ahj8.jpg

    Look closely at the background. Do you see anything odd?

    hpzik3.png

    That's right! The object (which is not used anywhere else in the game, and is removed in the final version) fits perfectly with that picture.

    So the debate goes - we know that the version of the game used in the nick arcade game (which was the first version shown to the public) used the background I've shown as being in the pre-release. So, was there an earlier version that used the background in the photo, and this is the last remaining piece of it, or is it the opposite - was the prerelease nick arcade version the older version, and this is the first step towards changing to the background that was shown off later? this is unknown, and the person who made the level is unable to remember.

    moving on, we find some very interesting objects strewn about the HPZ. Like this thing:

    s2protosnap029xu0.gif
    The master emerald in Sonic 2?! The level creator says no - it was just supposed to be a breakable block. Still, it's clear where sega got the influence from later on in sonic & knuckles.

    s2protosnap045jd8.gif

    The bottom part of the level is submerged in water. Note the background is actually the same as in the previous pictures - it just gets weirder as you move up or down.

    s2protosnap031dk8.gif

    When you get to the end of the level, you reach this big column that's unpassable. If you have debug, you can move up, but it dead ends into the top of the level. However, with some trickery, it was discovered that HPZ had a pretty big secret - the level was supposed to be infinitely scrolling.

    History time! Sonic levels are made to be a perfect square - I don't feel like looking up the exact demension, but a level is X by Y big. So this raises the question - how are some levels, like Labrynth Zone act 3 in sonic 1, so fucking tall? If the level is a square, then it shouldn't be able to let you climb up as tall as it goes.

    Thus, we meet infinite scrolling. Sonic's engine has the unique ability to allow you to warp from the top of the level to the bottom of the level, sort of like how you could move from the right side of the screen in Mario Bros and end up in the left side of the screen. Using creative level design, they could then fool you into thinkin the level was really tall.

    So, if we enable infinite scrolling, and move past a certain point on this column, we get to this:

    s2protosnap032jo9.gif

    That's right, the column continues at the bottom of the level. Since it's moving at an angle, you eventually move over enough so that it doesn't overlap. the end result is sorta like this:

    looppe5.png
    {EDIT: I just posted a picture of the ascii, too much work. the ___ and the / are supposed to be ground pieces, the periods are air.}

    you see? the tube looks longer than it is because it wraps around. What would have happened is we would have (in the final version) hit a trigger to turn off water in the game. That's how Labrynth Zone wraps - if you notice, at points in the game, the water goes down for no reason, then rises back up. It's a trick to make you think you're still going up. When you reach a point, the water goes down below the screen, then turns off. Then, when you get up high enough, they turn it back on and have it raise again to meet you.

    if we continue to move up...

    s2protosnap040xa9.gif

    We reach the top, which leads to...

    s2protosnap044ry7.gif

    A waterslide! It has no effect. From here, the game deadends. The level isn't complete, and looking at what's left of the final version, it never was. This as as much of HPZ as we ever got to see. Neat, though.

    But there are other levels in sonic 2 that never were seen...

    EDIT: Trying to fix the ascii art...

    TheSonicRetard on
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'm going to just go ahead and call for archival when TSR's all done. Do I hear a second?

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    mtvcdm wrote:
    I'm going to just go ahead and call for archival when TSR's all done. Do I hear a second?
    hell yes

    LewieP on
  • GimeCGimeC Registered User
    edited January 2007
    LewieP wrote:
    mtvcdm wrote:
    I'm going to just go ahead and call for archival when TSR's all done. Do I hear a second?
    hell yes

    Thirded, but I don't think the mods will like the idea.

    Regardless: awesome.

    GimeC on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    So that "Lost level pallette" over Emerald Hill zone picture I posted earlier? Yeah, thats a left over piece of a level that was never shown to the public.

    Behold, a truely lost sonic level: Wood Zone.

    w00dby1.gif
    s2protosnap005cb8.gif

    There is not much to the level. It plays Metropolis Zone's music. There are no enemies, no objects work, most of the art is incomplete (a lot of the platforms just end, very akwardly) and, unique to this level, there is no paralax scrolling. Every level in sonic 2 has paralax scrolling, but this one just has that background moving on a giant layer.

    Here is a full map of the level: LINK!

    There are 2 other levels that were never heard about in sonic that I'll get into in a bit.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    This is ace

    Bacon-BuTTy on
    Automasig.jpg
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    This is ace




    Amen.

    MechMantis on
    UA1OmVB.png
  • DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    So how come Wood Zone isn't a perfect square? I figure they'd make the square template for the levels before doing any work on them.

    Duki on
  • Sharp101Sharp101 TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Why don't you make a site or something?

    Sharp101 on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Sharp101 wrote:
    Why don't you make a site or something?

    I'm pretty sure most of the info is on a site.

    But I'm also pretty sure the mods do not want this site linked to.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Not about what I want or don't want. It's just site policy.

    Captain K on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I really wanna know what there is to know that we're not supposed to know.

    i can't even imagine what it would be.

    But like the guy said, im just gonna sit back and enjoy.

    Bacon-BuTTy on
    Automasig.jpg
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I really wanna know what there is to know that we're not supposed to know.

    i can't even imagine what it would be.

    But like the guy said, im just gonna sit back and enjoy.

    The obvious, secret truth; which is revealed by all this inside information:

    [spoiler:dbe0ffaec9]Sonic is actually Mario in a suit. A Sonic suit.[/spoiler:dbe0ffaec9]

    And now I'm banned...

    Aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    6379hy7.png

    I present genocide city. Litterally nothing. All we know is the name. You load up the level, and sonic falls to his death over and over again. Nothing, absolutely nothing, other than the name, exists for this level.

    but that doesn't mean we don't know stuff about it. We contacted the level creator, and he gave us the backstory.

    The level was originally called "Cyber city" and it was going to be the first level in sonic history to change mid way through - a trick used in sonic 3 to change angel island zone from a tropical paraidse into a firey hell. Midway through the level, it'd turn from a nice city into complete death and destruction. The darkest sonic zone yet.

    Quote a random fact book:

    5903im8.png

    Many people believe this is about GCZ.

    cybercitysmnn9.jpg

    The closest we'll ever get to seeing GCZ. The concept drawing of Cyber City. According to the level creator, nothing for the zone was ever started. It is only a concept.

    On the flip side of the coin, going back to the level select screen, another sonic lost level exists which stumps everyone. No one knows what the fuck level it is.

    Select Labrynth Zone from the level select, and you get...

    8475oz5.gif

    No name for the level. The level ripples like it's underwater, but you aren't. You're above water, you don't drown. The structure is completely random. You begin on a surface, but you'll fall elsewhere, occasionally bumping into a random piece of solid ground.

    The tiles are Chemical Plant Zone, but only because it was loaded before hand. this level has no original tiles, and we're not sure who was going to create it because it has no name. Going up to a level artist and asking him "what labrynth zone" was going to be doesn't exactly make sense, you know?

    3656fy2.gif

    bizzarre.

    2586rj2.gif

    Perhaps oddest of all, the only object that can be placed is a swing. However, the swing is actually the swing from MARBLE ZONE from Sonic 1. We've examined the source code, and they're identical. It's the same fucking swing. Why is it in sonic 2? Why is it in this level? No one knows.

    There is more to sonic 2, though...

    TheSonicRetard on
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Duki wrote:
    So how come Wood Zone isn't a perfect square? I figure they'd make the square template for the levels before doing any work on them.



    The real question is why it isn't penis-shaped.

    MechMantis on
    UA1OmVB.png
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    MechMantis wrote:
    Duki wrote:
    So how come Wood Zone isn't a perfect square? I figure they'd make the square template for the levels before doing any work on them.



    The real question is why it isn't penis-shaped.

    I mispoke when I said square. Each level is a rectangle. I just don't feel like looking up the exact level demensions. Like I said, ever level is X by Y big.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    And to the people asking for a site, or wondering a lot about the shit I'm talking about - again, just relax and enjoy this glimpse into sonic extremeness. This stuff isn't illegal, it's just stuff that shouldn't really be questioned about. We've spoken to a lot of people who developed sonic, including several interviews with top brass at sega (and yuji naka) and they approve what we've done because it doesn't hurt anyone, it's just for curiosity sake. Just relax and go with the flow.

    And to people who keep pming me with a site URL - I can't give one. Sorry, reasons beyond my control.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    if possible, I woud like to hear anything you know about Sonic Crackers/Sonic Studium/whatever.

    TelMarine on
    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Okay, so we have a level that was changed from Cyber City to Genocide City, and it was offed because of a reason that is something besides the fact that someone thought to name a Sonic level GENOCIDE CITY.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    mtvcdm wrote:
    Okay, so we have a level that was changed from Cyber City to Genocide City, and it was offed because of a reason that is something besides the fact that someone thought to name a Sonic level GENOCIDE CITY.


    EDIT2: I'm fucking wrong.

    MechMantis on
    UA1OmVB.png
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    How do you know so much dude? :S
    But anyway. Keep going. :o

    Rizzi on
  • AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    This is way too interesting. I should probably be going to sleep, but I can't, because I need to know what else is crazy about sonic games.

    AshtonDragon on
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Perhaps the waviness in the mystery level was to be a lava level, making it heat haze? Would make sense of the not drowning.

    Anyway, this thread is full of awesome.

    plufim on
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
  • BlazeHedgehogBlazeHedgehog Registered User
    edited January 2007
    I haven't finished reading the thread, but there's an interesting bug in Super Mario All-Stars that's fun, if a bit useless to exploit: Infinite warp whistles.

    Okay, so, basically, one caveat SMAS introduced to the classic Mario titles was a save function. In SMB3, this saves your lives, score, what items you have, and what world you are on - but not how many individual levels you've beaten.

    So what this allows you to do is farm items. Grab an item, save, quit out of the game, and go back - and the world will be reset, brand new again, but you'll still have your items. This, incidentally, also works on Warp Whistles, giving you the opportunity to carry around way more than just three.

    I don't remember very well, but unfortunately, I believe, using more than three warp whistles will just get you stuck on the warp zone to World 8 - you can't warp backwards, only forwards, so having that many whistles is strictly for show.

    BlazeHedgehog on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Hmm, this is intresting....

    I may want to make a topic like this to spill my guts about FF7.

    There are some intersting things in that game too....

    If anyone would know anything about FF7, I would

    halkun on
    wVo0Rgr.png
  • ecchiecchi Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Wall-jumping in Super Mario Bros is pretty neat, if impossible to do regularly. I'm pretty sure I pulled it off once though!

    ecchi on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    So I've talked about 3 levels people never knew about, and now I'll talk about the 4th level we never heard about. Unlike the other levels, where we have the actual zone but not any public knowledge about it, this level works in reverse. All we have is a screenshot of it - the level is nowhere to be found in any version of sonic 2.

    It's called Dust Hill Zone by fans, and all it is, is a single picture.

    dusthillrr2.jpg

    There it is, the picture. It was shown in a few magazines when announcing sonic 2, then never seen again. The woman who was supposed to make the level is a genius, who brought a lot of really unique ideas to sonic. She sheads some light on the subject.

    Apparently the real name for the zone is "Sabaku" which is what it was referred to internally in Sega. Sabaku means "Desert." Lame name. The level was to be the second mid-way changing level.

    Originally, the level would start out as a desert, then midway through, it'd change to a christmas theme. These two ideas would later be reused in sonic 3 and Knuckles as "Sandhill Zone" and "Icecap zone." Still, like the original HPZ, Desert Zone's concept looks entirely different and leaves people wondering what it could have been.

    Some oddities about the picture - Sonic is offcenter. Although this is possible, and happens a lot in the game, his position is not. He shouldn't be running like that midair - it's impossible. Furthermore, a Buzz-bot, formerly only seen in Emerald Hill Zone, and what's more, it's facing the WRONG WAY. Buzz Bot's code only allows it to face the left. Odd.

    To the right, we see a crocodile bot. This enemy was a big mystery. After about 3 years of extensive searching, people have discovered that the enemy is STILL inside Sonic 2. Behold:

    6644jw2.gif

    Why this is here, but nothing else, is a mystery. Where the zone was supposed to go, how far it got completed, everything else juicy... it's still unknown. What's odd, though, is that there IS a level named Dusthill zone in the prerelease for sonic 2...

    TheSonicRetard on
  • fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Oh man, Sonic stuff.

    <3

    I need to play those old games again soon.

    fragglefart on
    fragglefart.jpg
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Seam walking in Ocarina of Time:

    Basically, there was a bug where the game engine would use a default ground friction value if you walked exactly on the seam of two ground planes. If you found the right seam, you could walk straight up cliffs, over walls, and out of level maps.

    seam3.jpg
    seam1.jpg
    seam2.jpg

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • ReynoldsReynolds Raving Rabbit Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The video for Mew was messed up for me. So something about teleporting in those exact places causes the game to glitch up? Is there a FAQ on this or something? I wish I knew about this all those years ago...

    Reynolds on
    OGueI9Q.gif
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Wasn't it Sandopolis? Not Sandhill?





    If so: Hahahahahaha.

    MechMantis on
    UA1OmVB.png
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    This is goddamn fascinating.

    DarkPrimus on
    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
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