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What's the deal with Suda51?
CygnusZ
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, I've played three of his games: Killer7, Flower Sun and Rain and I'm currently playing Silver Jiken.
So I basically gave up on Killer7 during the first stage because it kept on forcing me to retread through the same level over and over again while not really explaining to the player what was going on. Flower, Sun and Rain kept me entertained for a much longer time. In fact, I thought the game was fairly decent, at least the game had a great sense of humor, until it started forcing me to run ridiculous distances to reach destinations on the island. At this point, the game resembled less of a puzzle game and more of a boring jogging simulator.
And right now, I'm playing Silver Jiken. So far about three hours in it's way better than his other games. However, the puzzles in this game are beyond annoying. The first puzzle in the game requires you to look up the Hex values for various katakana, and input long strings of hex as passwords. This means you've got to actually write down the katakana, go down the elevator to the reference area, right down all the hex values, go back up and Suda makes you do this 5 or 6 times. Luckily, the second part of the game had none of these annoying bullshit puzzles (actually, the second part has a very GOOD puzzle!). I'm always going to admit right now that I'm using a walkthrough for Silver Jiken, because I see no reason to play along with his desire to force the player to jump through tedious hoops.
But what's the deal here? Silver is a brilliant game, and I mean it's WAY better than the other games I played. Here's the problem, Suda51 can't be unaware that his games have really horrible gameplay. Why does he do this? I would have actually played through Killer7 and Flower, Sun and Rain if they had even vaguely competently designed gameplay because the stories are intriguing. In fact, Silver is pretty competently designed in that the game gives you hints and cues on exactly what to do next and even has a "fast-foward" button for when you're moving around.
Ok, so why does Suda make terrible games with fantastic plots, and why does he keep on being entrusted to develop new games (has he ever had a commercially successful game?!)?
So I basically gave up on Killer7 during the first stage because it kept on forcing me to retread through the same level over and over again while not really explaining to the player what was going on. Flower, Sun and Rain kept me entertained for a much longer time. In fact, I thought the game was fairly decent, at least the game had a great sense of humor, until it started forcing me to run ridiculous distances to reach destinations on the island. At this point, the game resembled less of a puzzle game and more of a boring jogging simulator.
And right now, I'm playing Silver Jiken. So far about three hours in it's way better than his other games. However, the puzzles in this game are beyond annoying. The first puzzle in the game requires you to look up the Hex values for various katakana, and input long strings of hex as passwords. This means you've got to actually write down the katakana, go down the elevator to the reference area, right down all the hex values, go back up and Suda makes you do this 5 or 6 times. Luckily, the second part of the game had none of these annoying bullshit puzzles (actually, the second part has a very GOOD puzzle!). I'm always going to admit right now that I'm using a walkthrough for Silver Jiken, because I see no reason to play along with his desire to force the player to jump through tedious hoops.
But what's the deal here? Silver is a brilliant game, and I mean it's WAY better than the other games I played. Here's the problem, Suda51 can't be unaware that his games have really horrible gameplay. Why does he do this? I would have actually played through Killer7 and Flower, Sun and Rain if they had even vaguely competently designed gameplay because the stories are intriguing. In fact, Silver is pretty competently designed in that the game gives you hints and cues on exactly what to do next and even has a "fast-foward" button for when you're moving around.
Ok, so why does Suda make terrible games with fantastic plots, and why does he keep on being entrusted to develop new games (has he ever had a commercially successful game?!)?
CygnusZ on
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Posts
Then you'll see why we dig the guy so much around here. Is he out of his mind? Or does he just want us to think he is? We'll probably never know.
Except for the mindless, boring, repetitive shit that it tries to justify as parody.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I'm serious. It's a weird name.
Either way, No More Heroes is fantastic.
It's like if there was such an english name as Fiveone. It doesn't literally mean 51, he just thinks it's cool so he calls himself that.
It's kind of like if a guy named Harry started signing his name with a picture of hair, or a guy named Dick started signing his name as Penis.
God, the horrible pointless empty overworld.
It looks like that kind of stuff has been slimmed down (if not completely eliminated) in Desperate Struggle. Yeah, bumming around Santa Destroy had its dull moments, but the assassination missions and free fight missions were fun and profitable. At least the focus in the sequel seems to be on the good stuff.
Seriously though, the guy's one of the few true designers who really cares about his games and this medium as a kind of art form. That makes him all right by me, even if you need to read voluminous plot synopses and explanations about his games.
Why are there parts of the game that are designed to basically not be fun at all? It just doesn't make sense to me. Tedious mini-games in NMH, jogging around in Flower, going through the same area over and over again in Killer7. Silver's odd little hex fetish. And despite all that, the scenario is really interesting. I'm convinced he deliberately weighs down his otherwise decent games with patches of absolutely shit gameplay.
And besides, I think Suda51 is a great name. It's way more memorable than Suda Goichi.
NMH2 looks awesome though... Right guys?
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
Well, that would be really creepy. And or insane.
It didn't really strike me as weird until the day I saw her sign her name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRUdaWZ4FN0
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
I got a great name for a kid. A real original. You wanna hear what it is? Huh, you ready?
Seven.
Yeah. It's a beautiful name for a boy or a girl. Especially a girl. Or a boy. It's Mickey Mantle's number. So not only is it an all around beautiful name, it is also a living tribute. That's the name! I defy you to come up with a better name than Seven. It's a fantastic name. It's a real original, nobody else is gonna have it and I absolutely love it. It's got cachet, baby! It's got cachet up the yin-yang!
I think he's a brilliant scenario writer. Also, I just saw the beginng to his first game: Super Fire Pro Wrestling Special. Wow, an SNES era Wrestling game that's just plain dark.
I'd argue it's all done for artistic purposes (and, yeah, sometimes just to fuck with you). Whether you consider it brilliant or simply pretentious wankery is your prerogative.
Chad OchoCinco plays in the NFL.
Yes, this is true. I think I read it in an interview. I think his reasoning was, regarding No More Heroes, that working shouldn't be something fun or exciting. Something like that, I don't remember who interviewed him, sorry.
Good satire gets around that a bit by making the concepts more interesting while leaving the criticisms intact.
Thats not postmodernism. Thats more in line with modernism. Postmodernism is more concerned with pastiche and parody - less malicious forms of recall.
He is also, as The Bugle has revealed to me, batshit insane.
What number is on that dude's jersey?
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
That is all.
Master. We're in a tight spot!
85. He changed his last name to match his Jersey number, not the other way around.
I guess it's more like children who are named Seven, or Six from Blossom.
Finished the Silver Case. At times it may have felt like I was doing the same thing over and over again just to get further into the story, in fact it wasn't much of a "game" as a vehicle for storytelling, but it was an excellent experience. Completely different from Killer 7 or Flower Sun and Rain which seemed to be actively punishing me. Maybe I'll try playing Moonlight Syndrome if I can find it used.
I still pop it in every once in a while. It's not horrible... it just doesn't hold my attention. It's not that I hate the battle system like some or whatever. Just for some reason I can't seem to complete the game.
Also, while contact was developed by Grasshopper, I don't think Suda had much of anything to do with the game.
So, basically, you have no idea what you are talking about.
猿も木から落ちる
Basically, I found the gameplay irritating so I didn't feel like continuing. Anything wrong with that?
The ending is incredible, and the level based on Akihabara is awesome.
Maybe one day I'll get there. Best America sums up exactly how I feel about the game. But at the rate I've been going on it, it'll be years coming.
I agree fully with the OP. I used to think he was just a terrible game designer with awesome graphic design sensibilities, but the on-and-off nature of his work is so consistent that he has to be doing it on purpose. I guess there's a place for the avant-garde, but I can't shake the feeling that while I'm trying to play his game, Suda's also playing a game by trying to fuck with me as much as possible.
If it weren't for the beautiful design and art styles, I don't think anyone would bother with his work. But man, I want to love his games so bad.
I won't hear a bad word said about Killer 7's gameplay however. Head fuck plot aside, the runnin' and gunnin' in that was both unique and awesome.
Oh, yeah, I forgot Contact! Played that one as well. Enjoyable experience but the plot wasn't quite quirky enough to justify the mildly tedious gameplay.
That's the one with the good gameplay, you say?