If you are consistently running into a team that wrecks your shit move on to a different instance. I'm pretty sure that team would have stomped your shit in regardless of their choice of weapon. Last night we got our faces stomped by Murder Herd and it appeared like theirs was the only bounty that kept showing up we said F that and changed instances and found opponents that better matched us. It's at simple as that. Don't beat your head against a brick wall and expect any results. Other than rage.
I don't mind losing, losing is fine. Last night we got stomped by FoE 2 times in a row, it was a different story after we changed our weapon load out, then we beat them no problem. That is fun, that is gameplay. But having ntec ranged shotgun slugs take you out in 1-2 hits where me hitting each shot on my gun can't kill fast enough is bull. Take a look at all your Non Lethal weapons, most of them do over 50% stam damage a pop. Where as using anything from the OCA, Obeya, or Obir requires me to hit every single bullet and hit you about 5-9 times in a row to kill you.
Let's count!
1-3 shots for Nonlethal
5-9 for Lethal
Now let's add in the team work factor. Hmmm.. it seems like any good team of cops can easily disable any crim team with minimal chat. You don't even have to arrest them right away. Just stun, next target, Stun, next target, Stun, Next, etc.
Now let's look at the downtime with being stunned...
I get stunned, I go down and can't do nothing for about... 10 seconds.
The Cop arrests me and I have to wait 5 more seconds to be cuffed, let's not forget there is a bug that makes cops invincible when making the arrest from time to time.
Then I get the pleasure of having to wait to be cuffed for 10 more seconds.
THEN I get a respawn timer!
That is easily 25-30 seconds of downtime that can make it so very easy for a team of nonlethal cops to complete their objectives with NO problem.
In conclusion, if LTLs are so ridiculously balanced, why can''t Criminals use them as well? You can't have balance, when one faction has access to a whole COMBAT mechanic that the other does not, that is flat out, the definition of imbalance!
Anyone who doesn't think LTL weapons are overpowered is high. This game would be far better if they were simply removed.
Even more so then the bullshit quick stuns (for the guy saying it takes 6 shots, thats not true. I went against a guy who 2 shot stunned me with an NL9 6 times in a 1 on 1 mission), is the fact that it gives Enforcers a ridiculous edge in 1 on 1 missions. From stun to respawn takes about 30 seconds, plus another 15 seconds (atleast) to get back to the mission objective. That's 45 seconds wasted on a timed mission. Basically, if you arrest a crim with a minute left on the objective, it's over, enforcer wins. That's complete bullshit.
I don't want a crim version added, I just want the shit removed from the game.
Death Cab For Albie on
...we made it cool to wear medallions and say hotep...
Anyone who doesn't think LTL weapons are overpowered is high. This game would be far better if they were simply removed.
I don't want a crim version added, I just want the shit removed from the game.
Listen to this man.
Camui on
0
ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Ok I've read this thread for about 35+ pages now and I'm intrigued. While this APB is nothing like the APB I played in the days of actual disks that were floppy it does sound very interesting. However reading the thread it would appear many do not find the game fun. Conversely many do find the game fun.
So I want to be a crim. The rogue speaks to me but I'm curious what sort of crimes I'm committing. I do hope drug sales, robberies, holdups, bank jobs, etc are all on the plate. I've watched a bunch of videos but nothing in specific especially to crims. The videos do not make this game appear fun so I'm hoping I can get some good information or perhaps someone knows of some good videos.
The payment model makes me even more interested as it seems people are bankrolling their playtime by selling shorts with pokemans on them. As an economist I find this very interesting. So tell me fellow crims, as a crim, how do I get to break the law?
Also I may not jump in immediately as I realize this game just launched and a lot can happen to an MMO in its first six months to a year.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
So I want to be a crim. The rogue speaks to me but I'm curious what sort of crimes I'm committing. I do hope drug sales, robberies, holdups, bank jobs, etc are all on the plate. I've watched a bunch of videos but nothing in specific especially to crims. The videos do not make this game appear fun so I'm hoping I can get some good information or perhaps someone knows of some good videos.
break into house, set car on fire, sabotage something
basically
"go here, do an action for 10 seconds, pick up item that spawns, take item to place, kill cops that try to stop you"
there's not really a bunch of varied actions here. its playing with people who are fun to play with where the fun comes from.
Guy gets out of his car, points his SMG at me from 20m, and I die in les than a second. Hacks, lag, or normal? I am getting to the point where I'm surprised when people drop any more - my bullets are nerf. I assume I'm just missing a lot, but I feel like I've had people lined up, started pulling the trigger, and they have time to turn around and unload on me, dropping me before I take them out.
Guy gets out of his car, points his SMG at me from 20m, and I die in les than a second. Hacks, lag, or normal? I am getting to the point where I'm surprised when people drop any more - my bullets are nerf. I assume I'm just missing a lot, but I feel like I've had people lined up, started pulling the trigger, and they have time to turn around and unload on me, dropping me before I take them out.
Serious, how I make dead people?
Are you an enforcer or criminal? If enforcer go non lethal and make them pay or alternatively do what I do and bring the same weapon to the table. I'm working on getting my own named N-tec but for now by basic one suffices against everyone except the crims that have the 3 slotted N-tecs. Also you can grab "The Jimmy" shotgun and two shot them in the face but that requires you to get in alot closer. If i'm having to get in that close I'll usually go for the non lethal approach, unless it's in a 4v4 in which case non lethal becomes less useful as their buddies will stop any attempt at me arresting the guy.
But yeah I still get splatted repeatedly by crims with suped up smgs. Accuracy bonuses, reload rates, and increased magazines make some of those OCW and N-tecs stupidly powerful and accurate at ridiculous ranges. Luckily most of those players are also marginally braindead and even the most basic tactics will work on them. It's only when going up against a group of 4+ all wielding the same weapon where it becomes an issue.
Delphinidaes on
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0
ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
Guy gets out of his car, points his SMG at me from 20m, and I die in les than a second. Hacks, lag, or normal? I am getting to the point where I'm surprised when people drop any more - my bullets are nerf. I assume I'm just missing a lot, but I feel like I've had people lined up, started pulling the trigger, and they have time to turn around and unload on me, dropping me before I take them out.
Serious, how I make dead people?
Are you an enforcer or criminal? If enforcer go non lethal and make them pay or alternatively do what I do and bring the same weapon to the table. I'm working on getting my own named N-tec but for now by basic one suffices against everyone except the crims that have the 3 slotted N-tecs. Also you can grab "The Jimmy" shotgun and two shot them in the face but that requires you to get in alot closer. If i'm having to get in that close I'll usually go for the non lethal approach, unless it's in a 4v4 in which case non lethal becomes less useful as their buddies will stop any attempt at me arresting the guy.
But yeah I still get splatted repeatedly by crims with suped up smgs. Accuracy bonuses, reload rates, and increased magazines make some of those OCW and N-tecs stupidly powerful and accurate at ridiculous ranges. Luckily most of those players are also marginally braindead and even the most basic tactics will work on them. It's only when going up against a group of 4+ all wielding the same weapon where it becomes an issue.
If you're an enforcer, don't use NL weaponry unless the rest of your team is using it too.
The reason being that NL weaponry does stamina damage, while lethal weaponry does health damage. Any hits you do won't help your other team-mates if they're using the much more common lethal weaponry, which has more versatility and range later on then the NL weaponry. Couple that with the fact that it takes a few solid seconds to actually arrest someone after they're stunned, and you're more of a hindrance then help unless you're really good at arresting folks with NL weaponry.
What sort of weapon are you using at the moment? If you've gotten the "I Need a Bigger Gun!" achievement, and haven't gotten over rank eight organization standing with an org yet, i'd recommend one of the two guns you get. They're specialized in what they can do (Never fire the SHAW on the move. Your accuracy will go to shit after the first bullet leaves the barrel.), but used properly they're stupidly powerful guns.
I'm regularly taking down people with named N-Tecs and uzis on my current criminal character by virtue of having a ludicrous refire rate and range on my SHAW. Hell, the clip is so large I can pin down three players at long range with suppressive fire for a full minute while my team-mates sneak up on them and flank them. I just can't run and gun with it, because the recoil is hellish when it's fired on the move.
Alternatively, the basic N-Tec is nice too. It's an all around, solid gun.
God damn it! I'm tired of going up against people of equal or lower level that have super awesome weapons because they happen to know someone who gives them out like candy. What idiot at RTW decided it was a good idea to let people give high level weapons to low level characters? What, then, is the fucking point of advancement?
I wish. Then maybe i'd actually have more TR people to play with before I burn myself out on this game (which surprisingly hasn't happened yet).
I'm finally starting to get good at this game Camui...and it's not a surprise it started happening when I started upgrading my gear, learning how to properly cook grenades and no more going for headshots.
When you buy something from a vendor and it goes out of stock, how long until it replenishes?
Death Cab For Albie on
...we made it cool to wear medallions and say hotep...
I've been having a blast at this game as an Enforcer, which apparently is the status quo. I ran a criminal for awhile, but made the mistake of trying to do a mission solo while some Enforcer with that LTL shotgun made a point of arresting me over and over again.
And not just arresting me, of course. I don't think I'd mind getting arrested if it didn't take me out of the game for so long. You've gotta sit there and wait for him to run up to you to do his animation, then you're all arrested, and then you've got another timer to wait on before the game despawns you so you can finally wait 7 seconds to play again.
Of course, this dude liked to add insult to injury by shooting me in the head several times just before the timer ran out. Good times, indeed.
If there were some real advantage to arresting someone, like if you got something out of it, I could see it. The only way to make it less annoying would be to simply make regular guns that did stamina damage instead. Otherwise just shooting me with real bullets is kinder.
Maybe if they just restricted arrests to VIP missions and your bullets just automatically switched to doing stamina damage, the arrest being more for flavor than annoying as all hell game mechanics. Reduce the number of times you have to do it (like 2 or 3 instead of the usual 5 kills) since team mates can stop you in the middle of it or something.
I mean, sure, losing isn't fun, but LTL arrests just make it go from to >:(FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Kashi on
0
mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
The Ltl pistol seems balanced in that you get 2 shots that seem to only connect 10 feet out.
The rest I cannot speak to but I have heard tales....
mojojoeo on
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
EDIT: Forget it, haters gonna hate no matter what and you can't fix stupid.
Great post. That added alot to the discussion.
I had this huge long thing posted but then I realized that it wasn't going to do any good and I hate deleting posts.
Anyway, I am still having a blast on my Criminal and I even logged a few hours today on my 2 Days Till Enforcer. I agree about using LTL in a group that isn't, you aren't really helping much, found that out the hard way today. So my new rule is in PUGs I always go Lethal main and LTL backup rather than the other way around. Oh and the same on Bounty missions, because nothing sucks more than plinking at a running Crim in a car with a sidearm.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
If there were some real advantage to arresting someone, like if you got something out of it, I could see it. The only way to make it less annoying would be to simply make regular guns that did stamina damage instead. Otherwise just shooting me with real bullets is kinder.
You get *way* more faction/contact standing and cash from arresting someone.
This is because rolling with LTL weaponry against any but the basest of scrubs is pretty much a fucking death wish. Seriously. If there is any backup anywhere near a criminal you're dead, if they have anything remotely upgraded (and they know how to use it) you're dead, if they are more than 20m away you're dead.
Not to mention if they get in a car you can do nothing unless you're really good with grenades.
This is why I roll with an LTL secondary (unless I have the SHAW, then I need an RSA), it offers me the ability to attempt an arrest if I sneak up on someone, or catch them in extremely close quarters.
I was trying to take down a crim with my PIG, in a fairly comical battle where we kept circling around some crates. I finally got him stunned on the third reload, when one of the PUGs in my group ran up and claimed the arrest.
I was trying to take down a crim with my PIG, in a fairly comical battle where we kept circling around some crates. I finally got him stunned on the third reload, when one of the PUGs in my group ran up and claimed the arrest.
So, I lit them both up with my SHAW. Justified?
Yes. Completely. Arrest poaching is a pretty big problem from what I hear.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
I'm pretty good (or damn excellent) at shooters, but I get positively spanked 95% of the time I'm in a 1v1 situation.
Not really sure what I'm doing wrong.
That's what you are doing wrong.
That's helpful. Yes, I do quite well in 2v1 and 3v1 situations, ha ha, but sometimes the chips fall the way they fall and my squadmates are either dead or dying and I've got to kill someone all by myself.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
No, I just always seem to be mismatched. I use my N-Tec, I get killed by the smg. I get the first several hits on a guy, he turns around and blows me away with whatever he's got. I use a shotgun, five well placed blasts don't kill someone, but then when I get shotgunned I only get hit 2 or 3 times and I'm done for.
This game suffers from dance-side-to-side-and-spray=success with some weapons and I really despise games like that. It'd be nice if cover meant more, but the only thing that seems to matter is locational advantage.
The only thing that burns me is when I am gunning someone with my SHAW from like 30m and they kill me with that Secondary machinegun. Here I am crouched, in marksman, got first shot, and I die to that thing.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
That happens a lot to me. There isn't a single "best weapon" that covers all situations. One thing that I haven't been doing but will now do is hitting tab when we start a mission on some dudes and see what they are packing. Counter pick to exploit the weaknesses of their weapons.
Are there patch notes? We spent the final minutes in a dump truck pinning crims in their cars to walls and watching them bitch. All set to the Terminator theme.
Posts
That's.... pretty much it. In the right hands slug shotguns are godly and can out snipe any gun but only by people who can use it right.
Let's count!
1-3 shots for Nonlethal
5-9 for Lethal
Now let's add in the team work factor. Hmmm.. it seems like any good team of cops can easily disable any crim team with minimal chat. You don't even have to arrest them right away. Just stun, next target, Stun, next target, Stun, Next, etc.
Now let's look at the downtime with being stunned...
I get stunned, I go down and can't do nothing for about... 10 seconds.
The Cop arrests me and I have to wait 5 more seconds to be cuffed, let's not forget there is a bug that makes cops invincible when making the arrest from time to time.
Then I get the pleasure of having to wait to be cuffed for 10 more seconds.
THEN I get a respawn timer!
That is easily 25-30 seconds of downtime that can make it so very easy for a team of nonlethal cops to complete their objectives with NO problem.
In conclusion, if LTLs are so ridiculously balanced, why can''t Criminals use them as well? You can't have balance, when one faction has access to a whole COMBAT mechanic that the other does not, that is flat out, the definition of imbalance!
I had a fucking brilliant time cruising around with Ein and Rius last night. I think it's the most fun I've had in this game yet.
"Hold on, let me get this girl's number".
Oh lawdy did I lol.
Even more so then the bullshit quick stuns (for the guy saying it takes 6 shots, thats not true. I went against a guy who 2 shot stunned me with an NL9 6 times in a 1 on 1 mission), is the fact that it gives Enforcers a ridiculous edge in 1 on 1 missions. From stun to respawn takes about 30 seconds, plus another 15 seconds (atleast) to get back to the mission objective. That's 45 seconds wasted on a timed mission. Basically, if you arrest a crim with a minute left on the objective, it's over, enforcer wins. That's complete bullshit.
I don't want a crim version added, I just want the shit removed from the game.
Listen to this man.
So I want to be a crim. The rogue speaks to me but I'm curious what sort of crimes I'm committing. I do hope drug sales, robberies, holdups, bank jobs, etc are all on the plate. I've watched a bunch of videos but nothing in specific especially to crims. The videos do not make this game appear fun so I'm hoping I can get some good information or perhaps someone knows of some good videos.
The payment model makes me even more interested as it seems people are bankrolling their playtime by selling shorts with pokemans on them. As an economist I find this very interesting. So tell me fellow crims, as a crim, how do I get to break the law?
Also I may not jump in immediately as I realize this game just launched and a lot can happen to an MMO in its first six months to a year.
Shogun Streams Vidya
So true. It's a game people.
Great post. That added alot to the discussion.
break into house, set car on fire, sabotage something
basically
"go here, do an action for 10 seconds, pick up item that spawns, take item to place, kill cops that try to stop you"
there's not really a bunch of varied actions here. its playing with people who are fun to play with where the fun comes from.
XBL: Torn Hoodie
@hoodiethirteen
Serious, how I make dead people?
Are you an enforcer or criminal? If enforcer go non lethal and make them pay or alternatively do what I do and bring the same weapon to the table. I'm working on getting my own named N-tec but for now by basic one suffices against everyone except the crims that have the 3 slotted N-tecs. Also you can grab "The Jimmy" shotgun and two shot them in the face but that requires you to get in alot closer. If i'm having to get in that close I'll usually go for the non lethal approach, unless it's in a 4v4 in which case non lethal becomes less useful as their buddies will stop any attempt at me arresting the guy.
But yeah I still get splatted repeatedly by crims with suped up smgs. Accuracy bonuses, reload rates, and increased magazines make some of those OCW and N-tecs stupidly powerful and accurate at ridiculous ranges. Luckily most of those players are also marginally braindead and even the most basic tactics will work on them. It's only when going up against a group of 4+ all wielding the same weapon where it becomes an issue.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
If you're an enforcer, don't use NL weaponry unless the rest of your team is using it too.
The reason being that NL weaponry does stamina damage, while lethal weaponry does health damage. Any hits you do won't help your other team-mates if they're using the much more common lethal weaponry, which has more versatility and range later on then the NL weaponry. Couple that with the fact that it takes a few solid seconds to actually arrest someone after they're stunned, and you're more of a hindrance then help unless you're really good at arresting folks with NL weaponry.
What sort of weapon are you using at the moment? If you've gotten the "I Need a Bigger Gun!" achievement, and haven't gotten over rank eight organization standing with an org yet, i'd recommend one of the two guns you get. They're specialized in what they can do (Never fire the SHAW on the move. Your accuracy will go to shit after the first bullet leaves the barrel.), but used properly they're stupidly powerful guns.
I'm regularly taking down people with named N-Tecs and uzis on my current criminal character by virtue of having a ludicrous refire rate and range on my SHAW. Hell, the clip is so large I can pin down three players at long range with suppressive fire for a full minute while my team-mates sneak up on them and flank them. I just can't run and gun with it, because the recoil is hellish when it's fired on the move.
Alternatively, the basic N-Tec is nice too. It's an all around, solid gun.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I wish. Then maybe i'd actually have more TR people to play with before I burn myself out on this game (which surprisingly hasn't happened yet).
I'm finally starting to get good at this game Camui...and it's not a surprise it started happening when I started upgrading my gear, learning how to properly cook grenades and no more going for headshots.
When you buy something from a vendor and it goes out of stock, how long until it replenishes?
And not just arresting me, of course. I don't think I'd mind getting arrested if it didn't take me out of the game for so long. You've gotta sit there and wait for him to run up to you to do his animation, then you're all arrested, and then you've got another timer to wait on before the game despawns you so you can finally wait 7 seconds to play again.
Of course, this dude liked to add insult to injury by shooting me in the head several times just before the timer ran out. Good times, indeed.
If there were some real advantage to arresting someone, like if you got something out of it, I could see it. The only way to make it less annoying would be to simply make regular guns that did stamina damage instead. Otherwise just shooting me with real bullets is kinder.
Maybe if they just restricted arrests to VIP missions and your bullets just automatically switched to doing stamina damage, the arrest being more for flavor than annoying as all hell game mechanics. Reduce the number of times you have to do it (like 2 or 3 instead of the usual 5 kills) since team mates can stop you in the middle of it or something.
I mean, sure, losing isn't fun, but LTL arrests just make it go from
The rest I cannot speak to but I have heard tales....
I had this huge long thing posted but then I realized that it wasn't going to do any good and I hate deleting posts.
Anyway, I am still having a blast on my Criminal and I even logged a few hours today on my 2 Days Till Enforcer. I agree about using LTL in a group that isn't, you aren't really helping much, found that out the hard way today. So my new rule is in PUGs I always go Lethal main and LTL backup rather than the other way around. Oh and the same on Bounty missions, because nothing sucks more than plinking at a running Crim in a car with a sidearm.
You get *way* more faction/contact standing and cash from arresting someone.
This is because rolling with LTL weaponry against any but the basest of scrubs is pretty much a fucking death wish. Seriously. If there is any backup anywhere near a criminal you're dead, if they have anything remotely upgraded (and they know how to use it) you're dead, if they are more than 20m away you're dead.
Not to mention if they get in a car you can do nothing unless you're really good with grenades.
This is why I roll with an LTL secondary (unless I have the SHAW, then I need an RSA), it offers me the ability to attempt an arrest if I sneak up on someone, or catch them in extremely close quarters.
Also, if I miss one of those two shots? Dead.
So, I lit them both up with my SHAW. Justified?
Yes. Completely. Arrest poaching is a pretty big problem from what I hear.
Sorry to hear it's so rough Enforcer side.
Also still waiting for my character to get fixed. Been unable to play them since saturday afternoon... so stupid.
Not really sure what I'm doing wrong.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
That's what you are doing wrong.
That's helpful. Yes, I do quite well in 2v1 and 3v1 situations, ha ha, but sometimes the chips fall the way they fall and my squadmates are either dead or dying and I've got to kill someone all by myself.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Are you leading the target?
If so, that's your problem. APB uses hitscan, if the reticle is on the target when you shoot you hit, even if you are using a sniper rifle.
This game suffers from dance-side-to-side-and-spray=success with some weapons and I really despise games like that. It'd be nice if cover meant more, but the only thing that seems to matter is locational advantage.
Edit: Namely, being above or behind someone.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
The only thing that burns me is when I am gunning someone with my SHAW from like 30m and they kill me with that Secondary machinegun. Here I am crouched, in marksman, got first shot, and I die to that thing.
Make me go WTF every time.
Any idea when the servers are coming back up?