Was the film shakey for you guys? For most of the movie I was wishing someone had given the guys a steadicam, but at the beginning and end credits the names were shaking a bit so I was wondering if it was just my theater being shitty.
After watching this film a second time I don't think I like it, at least not beyond "eh, that was interesting." It seemed really overly symbolic and too heavy on the indirect ideas to explain the little things being alluded to all the time. Trying to avoid telling the audience what was going on and what not, while still saying it anyway through piles of indirect notation of that fact.
I dunno, maybe it's just me. When I first watched it I said "I dunno what to think about it" and after the 2nd time through, it may be because it didn't directly say much that made thought-provoking revelations occur. Least some films have the mix of things that make ya think, while still even being direct about it at times. This film, though well shot for the most part, had a story that just held its head up while the director spent time drawing lines from idea to idea with the lens while the film seemed to say "hey guys, i wanna play too" only to be ignored in favor of the bits and pieces of symbolism floating in and out of the film.
perhaps i'm just putting too much emphasis on certain scenes I recall, but figured it couldn't hurt to wonder why i thought that way, seeing as so many folks liked it.
Dyrwen66 on
Just an ancient PA person who doesn't leave the house much.
0
MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
edited January 2007
I can't tell whether you're saying it was too coy and indirect with its ideas or too pretentious and in-you-face with them.
I thought that it largely avoided clumsy symbolism and moralization, which was a great deal of the reason I liked it.
I loved how it was set against an ostensibly epic sci-fi backdrop, but it never overindulged itself, and instead maintained an incredibly restrained minimalist perspective, focusing almost completely on Clive Owens and his immediate situation.
I wish peopl would get it into their heads that sci-fi doesn't necessarily mean zomg lasers! pskew pskew!
Anyway, considering the state of the world as the movie opens, it's not surprising that technology hasn't advanced in 20 years. What would be the point?
[spoiler:df70760320]everyone was standing in awe of the baby, but the fighting started up again in no time. so even if people started having babies again, it wouldn't fix the violent nature of humanity[/spoiler:df70760320]
[spoiler:df70760320]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.
I mean, you would expect the troops to try to take the baby or something.
But honestly? I expected the baby to get killed accidentally in the fighting. [/spoiler:df70760320]
[spoiler:c7ccc01c6c]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.[/spoiler:c7ccc01c6c]
I found that scene implausible, and it interfered with my enjoyment of the ending. I was like "no, you've been so restrained throughout this whole movie! Don't slip into melodrama now!"
[spoiler:27b9300ba8]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.[/spoiler:27b9300ba8]
I found that scene implausible, and it interfered with my enjoyment of the ending. I was like "no, you've been so restrained throughout this whole movie! Don't slip into melodrama now!"
Yeah, exactly. The ending was a lot "happier" than the rest of the movie would lead you to expect.
[spoiler:27b9300ba8]On the other hand, considering the reaction you see people have to Baby Diego's death, and considering there hasn't been a childbirth in 18 years, I suppose it's somewhat natural for people to be in awe. I got the impression that the slum dwellers, at least, actually regarded Kee and her baby as some sort of modern-day Mary and Baby Jesus.
In fact, the only people in the whole movie who weren't awed by it were Syd (who was obviously a sociopath anyhow) and the Fishes (who wanted to use public awe of her as a rallying cry).[/spoiler:27b9300ba8]
Also, according to IMDb, the movie was third at the box office this weekend. Not bad.
I can't tell whether you're saying it was too coy and indirect with its ideas or too pretentious and in-you-face with them.
I thought that it largely avoided clumsy symbolism and moralization, which was a great deal of the reason I liked it.
The friend I saw it with described it as "beating you over the head with symbolism", so I guess in-your-face would probably be closer to what I thought. It wasn't clumsy, I'll give it that, but there was just a lot of it everywhere, which felt overused.
[spoiler:55f71fa5bf]From Ki being nude around a buncha milk and cows, to a flying pig in the background when he asks his cousin for papers, right down to the baby leaving on a boat to safer waters.[/spoiler:55f71fa5bf]
Spose I can't really fault it, but its kind of symbolism displayed reminded me of something like The DaVinchi Code movie.. Felt like it could've been more coy and indirect with its overall idea/l/s, though the moralization of things was spot on most of the time.
Dyrwen66 on
Just an ancient PA person who doesn't leave the house much.
[spoiler:64a0ccc8b6]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.[/spoiler:64a0ccc8b6]
I found that scene implausible, and it interfered with my enjoyment of the ending. I was like "no, you've been so restrained throughout this whole movie! Don't slip into melodrama now!"
[spoiler:64a0ccc8b6]considering the background of the movie (no children. anywhere. for almost two decades.) and that there was only a lull in the fighting rather than an unrealistic cessation, it didn't bother me at all.[/spoiler:64a0ccc8b6]
Loren Michael on
0
MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
Spose I can't really fault it, but its kind of symbolism displayed reminded me of something like The DaVinchi Code movie.. Felt like it could've been more coy and indirect with its overall idea/l/s, though the moralization of things was spot on most of the time.
Being an atheist with no bible-learning whatsoever, I don't usually notice or care about religious symbolism.
[spoiler:17009c9b77]considering the background of the movie (no children. anywhere. for almost two decades.) and that there was only a lull in the fighting rather than an unrealistic cessation, it didn't bother me at all. [/spoiler:17009c9b77]
Yeah, that's why it didn't totally sink the movie for me. I still felt like it was a slip in the tone which I had so appreciated, though.
Spose I can't really fault it, but its kind of symbolism displayed reminded me of something like The DaVinchi Code movie.. Felt like it could've been more coy and indirect with its overall idea/l/s, though the moralization of things was spot on most of the time.
Being an atheist with no bible-learning whatsoever, I don't usually notice or care about religious symbolism.
That's rather... stupid.
I consider myself an atheist as well, but nonetheless, the Bible is one of the biggest influences on Western culture that there is. There are so many story archetypes and phrases and such that, if they didn't come from the Bible, are at least the earliest and best-known examples.
Target Practice on
0
MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
Being an atheist with no bible-learning whatsoever, I don't usually notice or care about religious symbolism.
That's rather... stupid.
I consider myself an atheist as well, but nonetheless, the Bible is one of the biggest influences on Western culture that there is. There are so many story archetypes and phrases and such that, if they didn't come from the Bible, are at least the earliest and best-known examples.
I've never read the book myself, and I don't care to either. I'm not going to take up the study of it just so I can catch more "moneylenders in the temple" references.
i've read the bible myself, but having never been very impressed with it or taking the stories to heart, i tend to ignore all but the most blatant, shoved-down-your throat symbolism (a'la the davinci code). this movie managed to not hit any of my cheesy symbolism buttons.
I get rather tired of dystopian future movies as they tend to be very cliche these days. But CoM did do a lot of things differently and gave it an interesting twist that kept me engaged.
[spoiler:b684acbc99]I could have done with less "Big Brother is Watching You" signs pasted everywhere, but they didn't play up the "Evil Government" angle too much. I mean, things have just gone to hell, refugees are pouring in and what the fuck is Britain to do really? This isn't like normally illegal aliens we're talking about, and Britain seems less like a country with an agenda bit rather a government trying to stay together.
I enjoyed Theo, who went from a realistic viewpoint that the world is fucked regardless of the fertility issue to a real hero again. Juliane's death was well done and I did NOT see that coming.
And, I'm ever grateful they didn't put some government or conspiracy behind the infertility. I was surprised we got no answer at all, and I think that's pretty cool.
Lastly, Quietus Kits seem really big for a suicide product. You'd think a pill would do the trick.[/spoiler:b684acbc99]
I'mma have to go ahead and say it was fucking amazing.
The only concievable criticism I could have is the movie needs to be 30 minutes longer, and there could be a little more plot. Otherwise it was amazing. It's been said before but!
That cinematography made me poop my pants. As did the Animals cover sneaking into the movie, that was sly! The soundtrack was also perfectly complimentry I felt. Shit guys, I hope this director does more of the same.
EDIT: What? This guy did Y Tu Mama Tambien? Ehhhhhhhhh, more dystopian action please.
I can't tell whether you're saying it was too coy and indirect with its ideas or too pretentious and in-you-face with them.
I thought that it largely avoided clumsy symbolism and moralization, which was a great deal of the reason I liked it.
The friend I saw it with described it as "beating you over the head with symbolism", so I guess in-your-face would probably be closer to what I thought. It wasn't clumsy, I'll give it that, but there was just a lot of it everywhere, which felt overused.
[spoiler:f51d05f319]From Ki being nude around a buncha milk and cows, to a flying pig in the background when he asks his cousin for papers, right down to the baby leaving on a boat to safer waters.[/spoiler:f51d05f319]
Spose I can't really fault it, but its kind of symbolism displayed reminded me of something like The DaVinchi Code movie.. Felt like it could've been more coy and indirect with its overall idea/l/s, though the moralization of things was spot on most of the time.
[spoiler:f51d05f319]The flying pig was from the Pink Floyd album. It wasn't symbolism, it was part of the preservation of art that was going on. I found it hilarious.[/spoiler:f51d05f319]
[spoiler:10752f291b]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.[/spoiler:10752f291b]
I found that scene implausible, and it interfered with my enjoyment of the ending. I was like "no, you've been so restrained throughout this whole movie! Don't slip into melodrama now!"
You speak only the truth. That scene was downright messianic, and I was over it pretty quickly. For me, the movie fell apart at about that moment, and the ending didn't really rescue it, it just made it worse.
I would've liked to see more development of the world situation, but I'm trying to not complain too loudly. It was a really good movie.
I can't tell whether you're saying it was too coy and indirect with its ideas or too pretentious and in-you-face with them.
I thought that it largely avoided clumsy symbolism and moralization, which was a great deal of the reason I liked it.
The friend I saw it with described it as "beating you over the head with symbolism", so I guess in-your-face would probably be closer to what I thought. It wasn't clumsy, I'll give it that, but there was just a lot of it everywhere, which felt overused.
[spoiler:141d735683]From Ki being nude around a buncha milk and cows, to a flying pig in the background when he asks his cousin for papers, right down to the baby leaving on a boat to safer waters.[/spoiler:141d735683]
Spose I can't really fault it, but its kind of symbolism displayed reminded me of something like The DaVinchi Code movie.. Felt like it could've been more coy and indirect with its overall idea/l/s, though the moralization of things was spot on most of the time.
[spoiler:141d735683]The flying pig was from the Pink Floyd album. It wasn't symbolism, it was part of the preservation of art that was going on. I found it hilarious.[/spoiler:141d735683]
The pig by itself wasn't much to go on. But setting it against the smokestacks? Brilliance.
Also, thought this was interesting, though wiki doesn't give a reference for the information
[quote=Wiki entry on Children of Men, Cinematography][spoiler:86138c2627]For one scene, shot in one extended take, a special camera rig was invented by Doggicam Systems, developed from Doggicam Systems' Power Slide system[2] — and a vehicle was modified so that seats could be made to tilt and lower actors out of the way of the camera. The windshield of the car in which the five actors rode was designed to tilt out of the way to allow camera movement in and out through the front windscreen. A crew of four, including the DP and camera operator, rode on the roof.
All of this took place, in one uncut shot which was filmed as 6 takes over a week and blended together in post production, while numerous dangerous stunts involving fire added in post production, thrown missiles, and stunt falls which include a CGI motorbike added in post production, while the actors performed, dodging the moving camera.
In another scene, featuring an army of actors, also shot in one extended take which was blended together from 5 separate takes on two different locations over 2 weeks of filming, hundreds of bullet shots were added digitally as well as tank mounted 'big gun' impacts, other on set pyrotechnic effects surround the principal actors as they appear to move hundreds of feet along a street, into a building, and up two flight of stairs. The use of handheld camerawork creates an almost "documentary feel" to the cinematography. At one point blood was accidentally squirted onto the camera lens by a stunt woman, which was later faded out throughout the shot in post production.[/spoiler:86138c2627][/quote]
Edit: I suppose I'll spoiler all that just to be safe.
The part that made me think of A Handmaid's Tale was the billboard shown towards the beginning that said "Avoid fertility tests is a crime."
After 18 years without a birth, it's pretty believable that the government would make fertility tests mandatory to see if anyone could become pregnant. And if Key was found by the government, it's very possible that she would face a similar situation to the one presented in Atwood's book.
I also like the fact that she was a Figi, which brought in some believable overtones of racism and xenophobia.
On the subject of death and daemons disappearing: arrows sure are effective in Lyra's universe. Seems like if you get shot once, you're dead - no lingering deaths with your daemon huddling pitifully in your arms, just *thunk* *argh* *whoosh*. A battlefield full of the dying would just be so much more depressing when you add in wailing gerbils and dogs.
[spoiler:48d7368a54]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.[/spoiler:48d7368a54]
I found that scene implausible, and it interfered with my enjoyment of the ending. I was like "no, you've been so restrained throughout this whole movie! Don't slip into melodrama now!"
You speak only the truth. That scene was downright messianic, and I was over it pretty quickly. For me, the movie fell apart at about that moment, and the ending didn't really rescue it, it just made it worse.
I would've liked to see more development of the world situation, but I'm trying to not complain too loudly. It was a really good movie.
I don't get what the big deal is. The movie is about hope and if the entire world is going to plunge into chaos because of infertility, I imagine that when people see their first baby in 18 years (some first time in their lifetime) then they're going to take notice.
It wasn't really done in a way to say that a baby would end all strife, it just showed that it represented some kind of hope for everyone. I don't see any other way the scene could have been done considering the context of the movie.
I'm going to avoid reading this thread, because I've heard good things about this movie elsewhere, so I think I'm going to check it out. Maybe tonight.
To the local movie-listing site... mobile!
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I think most people agree the flick is worth the price of admission. By now so much has been spoiled in this thread but the film still stands up visually and doesn't over-play itself until the end where you're probably overwhelmed anyway.
Posts
I dunno, maybe it's just me. When I first watched it I said "I dunno what to think about it" and after the 2nd time through, it may be because it didn't directly say much that made thought-provoking revelations occur. Least some films have the mix of things that make ya think, while still even being direct about it at times. This film, though well shot for the most part, had a story that just held its head up while the director spent time drawing lines from idea to idea with the lens while the film seemed to say "hey guys, i wanna play too" only to be ignored in favor of the bits and pieces of symbolism floating in and out of the film.
perhaps i'm just putting too much emphasis on certain scenes I recall, but figured it couldn't hurt to wonder why i thought that way, seeing as so many folks liked it.
I thought that it largely avoided clumsy symbolism and moralization, which was a great deal of the reason I liked it.
Anyway, considering the state of the world as the movie opens, it's not surprising that technology hasn't advanced in 20 years. What would be the point?
[spoiler:df70760320]Personally, I thought it was more shocking that everyone stopped.
I mean, you would expect the troops to try to take the baby or something.
But honestly? I expected the baby to get killed accidentally in the fighting. [/spoiler:df70760320]
I found that scene implausible, and it interfered with my enjoyment of the ending. I was like "no, you've been so restrained throughout this whole movie! Don't slip into melodrama now!"
[spoiler:27b9300ba8]On the other hand, considering the reaction you see people have to Baby Diego's death, and considering there hasn't been a childbirth in 18 years, I suppose it's somewhat natural for people to be in awe. I got the impression that the slum dwellers, at least, actually regarded Kee and her baby as some sort of modern-day Mary and Baby Jesus.
In fact, the only people in the whole movie who weren't awed by it were Syd (who was obviously a sociopath anyhow) and the Fishes (who wanted to use public awe of her as a rallying cry).[/spoiler:27b9300ba8]
Also, according to IMDb, the movie was third at the box office this weekend. Not bad.
[spoiler:55f71fa5bf]From Ki being nude around a buncha milk and cows, to a flying pig in the background when he asks his cousin for papers, right down to the baby leaving on a boat to safer waters.[/spoiler:55f71fa5bf]
Spose I can't really fault it, but its kind of symbolism displayed reminded me of something like The DaVinchi Code movie.. Felt like it could've been more coy and indirect with its overall idea/l/s, though the moralization of things was spot on most of the time.
Being an atheist with no bible-learning whatsoever, I don't usually notice or care about religious symbolism.
Yeah, that's why it didn't totally sink the movie for me. I still felt like it was a slip in the tone which I had so appreciated, though.
I consider myself an atheist as well, but nonetheless, the Bible is one of the biggest influences on Western culture that there is. There are so many story archetypes and phrases and such that, if they didn't come from the Bible, are at least the earliest and best-known examples.
I've never read the book myself, and I don't care to either. I'm not going to take up the study of it just so I can catch more "moneylenders in the temple" references.
Thanks Kantankeris, you big jerk.
no, because he is an asshole.
This is kinda awkward but uh, yeah... everyone came around last week. You werent invited
You either.
[spoiler:b684acbc99]I could have done with less "Big Brother is Watching You" signs pasted everywhere, but they didn't play up the "Evil Government" angle too much. I mean, things have just gone to hell, refugees are pouring in and what the fuck is Britain to do really? This isn't like normally illegal aliens we're talking about, and Britain seems less like a country with an agenda bit rather a government trying to stay together.
I enjoyed Theo, who went from a realistic viewpoint that the world is fucked regardless of the fertility issue to a real hero again. Juliane's death was well done and I did NOT see that coming.
And, I'm ever grateful they didn't put some government or conspiracy behind the infertility. I was surprised we got no answer at all, and I think that's pretty cool.
Lastly, Quietus Kits seem really big for a suicide product. You'd think a pill would do the trick.[/spoiler:b684acbc99]
Better than I was expecting. I'm glad I saw it.
The only concievable criticism I could have is the movie needs to be 30 minutes longer, and there could be a little more plot. Otherwise it was amazing. It's been said before but!
That cinematography made me poop my pants. As did the Animals cover sneaking into the movie, that was sly! The soundtrack was also perfectly complimentry I felt. Shit guys, I hope this director does more of the same.
EDIT: What? This guy did Y Tu Mama Tambien? Ehhhhhhhhh, more dystopian action please.
[spoiler:f51d05f319]The flying pig was from the Pink Floyd album. It wasn't symbolism, it was part of the preservation of art that was going on. I found it hilarious.[/spoiler:f51d05f319]
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
You speak only the truth. That scene was downright messianic, and I was over it pretty quickly. For me, the movie fell apart at about that moment, and the ending didn't really rescue it, it just made it worse.
I would've liked to see more development of the world situation, but I'm trying to not complain too loudly. It was a really good movie.
Also, thought this was interesting, though wiki doesn't give a reference for the information
[quote=Wiki entry on Children of Men, Cinematography][spoiler:86138c2627]For one scene, shot in one extended take, a special camera rig was invented by Doggicam Systems, developed from Doggicam Systems' Power Slide system[2] — and a vehicle was modified so that seats could be made to tilt and lower actors out of the way of the camera. The windshield of the car in which the five actors rode was designed to tilt out of the way to allow camera movement in and out through the front windscreen. A crew of four, including the DP and camera operator, rode on the roof.
All of this took place, in one uncut shot which was filmed as 6 takes over a week and blended together in post production, while numerous dangerous stunts involving fire added in post production, thrown missiles, and stunt falls which include a CGI motorbike added in post production, while the actors performed, dodging the moving camera.
In another scene, featuring an army of actors, also shot in one extended take which was blended together from 5 separate takes on two different locations over 2 weeks of filming, hundreds of bullet shots were added digitally as well as tank mounted 'big gun' impacts, other on set pyrotechnic effects surround the principal actors as they appear to move hundreds of feet along a street, into a building, and up two flight of stairs. The use of handheld camerawork creates an almost "documentary feel" to the cinematography. At one point blood was accidentally squirted onto the camera lens by a stunt woman, which was later faded out throughout the shot in post production.[/spoiler:86138c2627][/quote]
Edit: I suppose I'll spoiler all that just to be safe.
After 18 years without a birth, it's pretty believable that the government would make fertility tests mandatory to see if anyone could become pregnant. And if Key was found by the government, it's very possible that she would face a similar situation to the one presented in Atwood's book.
I also like the fact that she was a Figi, which brought in some believable overtones of racism and xenophobia.
Actually, it's "fugee", slang for "refugee".
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It wasn't really done in a way to say that a baby would end all strife, it just showed that it represented some kind of hope for everyone. I don't see any other way the scene could have been done considering the context of the movie.
To the local movie-listing site... mobile!