It would not be a major cost. Just because they can charge them $6.50 doesn't mean that they actually cost that much to Blizzard.
edit: it's 4AM and a slow typing night
You don't think free authenticators for 11 million people would represent a substantial cost?
It's a $6.50 authenticator. How much is the security of your account (the password aspect of which is your responsibility, not Blizzard's) worth to you?
A person should be able to purchase and play an MMO with a reasonable expectation of account security, barring downloading lots of questionable files.
why?
This is an online game, worth billions?. By that reasoning, a person should also expect to be able to buy a new computer, set it up, and not have to pay/download spyware or anti virus software or fire walls because well.. the internet should be nice to me right?
You don't have to go online and look at questionable things to get viruses or spyware on your computer. Sometimes perfectly innocent sites can infect your PC.
Isn't that a bit redundant of a comparison, though? After all, if a person without an authenticator gets the new computer, sets up it, gets spyware and anti-virus software and sets up a firewall, keeps their definitions up to date, and scans on a regular basis, then it seems to me that they would still have cause to bitch should their WoW account become compromised.
The idea that a person who does take general computer security precautions (yet lacks an authenticator) is themselves at fault for being compromised (which seems to be the underlining implication of the 'don't bitch if you don't have it' statements) is a bit of a stretch.
Of course, I'd assume that most of the time, those getting their accounts hacked aren't taking general security precautions. But if that's the case, then lacking an authenticator is not the most prominent issue for those people.
You're missing the point. There is only two parties that can be at fault if you get hacked. (I suppose a nameless third party who does the actual hacking but you can't attack them because you don't know who they are).
Blizzard can have their own servers end up hacked...Now I'm pretty sure Blizzard is unlikely to have their servers be hacked, and if they were, it'd happen once, a huge amount of accounts would be lost, then it'd be fixed. Not this steady stream.
So its pretty certain that its not Blizzard's fault. the only other possible person to blame is you. Maybe its not through stupidity or neglect, maybe you just visited MMO Champion and they had an infected script running on their site.
There is NOTHING Blizzard can do about that. Absolutely nothing. Except offering an authenticator at a relatively cheap price (excluding shippiing of course, fuck australia), in order to help keep your account safe. They are not required to give that for free. Sure, it might be good PR to do so, but free authenticators for everyone would create more trouble than it was worth. Not only would there be the up front cost of supplying authenticators to everyone playing WoW, but also the huge hassle of all the dumb fucks who are like "no i dnt need to use authinkeator omfg blizz dont make it so we hav 2 use dem".
The best approach I can think of, if they do make authenticators mandatory, is to increase the cost of the Cataclysm box set by $6.50 when it goes on sale and include one in the box. Then, to log on to a Cataclysm account, you must have an authenticator attached to it.
I think it was you who missed my point. Kinda an odd point to jump into that conversation, too.
Anyway, I never claimed that Blizzard was/is able to prevent these accounts from being stolen. That doesn't mean that the account holder is suddenly and completely at fault for the account being compromised. Other details might (falling for scams, posting account information on forums, etc.), but that's not something that I think should be assumed to apply to the general case.
You can read my later post on that topic and perhaps glean that my main issue with mturalon's stance was the implication that, if you don't take every possible security measure possible, then you are at fault for the bad things that happen to you. Lacking a home security service doesn't suddenly make a home owner at fault for someone breaking in, after all. The fact that this is just a computer game, or that it's just six-fifty for the widget, doesn't somehow magically make the logic any better.
It would not be a major cost. Just because they can charge them $6.50 doesn't mean that they actually cost that much to Blizzard.
edit: it's 4AM and a slow typing night
You don't think free authenticators for 11 million people would represent a substantial cost?
It's a $6.50 authenticator. How much is the security of your account (the password aspect of which is your responsibility, not Blizzard's) worth to you?
Not much actually.
Look, if it becomes mandatory, I'll definitely buy one. The trouble for me comes from the fact that I don't own any credit cards - which is why I only buy prepaids. I hope they'll be at least packing authenticators with Cataclysm CEs because I plan to get one anyway.
They gave them away at the last two Blizzcons, And various other events they were at.
I wonder if they did require it and added it to the Cataclysm box
as for the account5 place it seems really fishy when you look at the other info what are they really
Brainleech on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
A person should be able to purchase and play an MMO with a reasonable expectation of account security, barring downloading lots of questionable files.
why?
This is an online game, worth billions?. By that reasoning, a person should also expect to be able to buy a new computer, set it up, and not have to pay/download spyware or anti virus software or fire walls because well.. the internet should be nice to me right?
You don't have to go online and look at questionable things to get viruses or spyware on your computer. Sometimes perfectly innocent sites can infect your PC.
Isn't that a bit redundant of a comparison, though? After all, if a person without an authenticator gets the new computer, sets up it, gets spyware and anti-virus software and sets up a firewall, keeps their definitions up to date, and scans on a regular basis, then it seems to me that they would still have cause to bitch should their WoW account become compromised.
The idea that a person who does take general computer security precautions (yet lacks an authenticator) is themselves at fault for being compromised (which seems to be the underlining implication of the 'don't bitch if you don't have it' statements) is a bit of a stretch.
Of course, I'd assume that most of the time, those getting their accounts hacked aren't taking general security precautions. But if that's the case, then lacking an authenticator is not the most prominent issue for those people.
You're missing the point. There is only two parties that can be at fault if you get hacked. (I suppose a nameless third party who does the actual hacking but you can't attack them because you don't know who they are).
Blizzard can have their own servers end up hacked...Now I'm pretty sure Blizzard is unlikely to have their servers be hacked, and if they were, it'd happen once, a huge amount of accounts would be lost, then it'd be fixed. Not this steady stream.
So its pretty certain that its not Blizzard's fault. the only other possible person to blame is you. Maybe its not through stupidity or neglect, maybe you just visited MMO Champion and they had an infected script running on their site.
There is NOTHING Blizzard can do about that. Absolutely nothing. Except offering an authenticator at a relatively cheap price (excluding shippiing of course, fuck australia), in order to help keep your account safe. They are not required to give that for free. Sure, it might be good PR to do so, but free authenticators for everyone would create more trouble than it was worth. Not only would there be the up front cost of supplying authenticators to everyone playing WoW, but also the huge hassle of all the dumb fucks who are like "no i dnt need to use authinkeator omfg blizz dont make it so we hav 2 use dem".
The best approach I can think of, if they do make authenticators mandatory, is to increase the cost of the Cataclysm box set by $6.50 when it goes on sale and include one in the box. Then, to log on to a Cataclysm account, you must have an authenticator attached to it.
I think it was you who missed my point. Kinda an odd point to jump into that conversation, too.
Anyway, I never claimed that Blizzard was/is able to prevent these accounts from being stolen. That doesn't mean that the account holder is suddenly and completely at fault for the account being compromised. Other details might (falling for scams, posting account information on forums, etc.), but that's not something that I think should be assumed to apply to the general case.
You can read my later post on that topic and perhaps glean that my main issue with mturalon's stance was the implication that, if you don't take every possible security measure possible, then you are at fault for the bad things that happen to you. Lacking a home security service doesn't suddenly make a home owner at fault for someone breaking in, after all. The fact that this is just a computer game, or that it's just six-fifty for the widget, doesn't somehow magically make the logic any better.
They are not at fault, true. But it is still their responsibility to keep it safe. Responsibility is not the same as fault. If someone's house gets broken into and they don't have locks or security systems, that doesn't make it their fault that they got broken into, but the security of your house is your responsibility, you should not assume someone else will do it for you. To continue that analogy, the less effort you put into securing your house, the less sympathy people are likely to have for you if your house does get broken into, and the same applies to WoW accounts.
Even more so, since the authenticator is a completely foolproof system so far, unless you share it, and thats more than you can say for most home security gadgets.
A person should be able to purchase and play an MMO with a reasonable expectation of account security, barring downloading lots of questionable files.
why?
This is an online game, worth billions?. By that reasoning, a person should also expect to be able to buy a new computer, set it up, and not have to pay/download spyware or anti virus software or fire walls because well.. the internet should be nice to me right?
You don't have to go online and look at questionable things to get viruses or spyware on your computer. Sometimes perfectly innocent sites can infect your PC.
Isn't that a bit redundant of a comparison, though? After all, if a person without an authenticator gets the new computer, sets up it, gets spyware and anti-virus software and sets up a firewall, keeps their definitions up to date, and scans on a regular basis, then it seems to me that they would still have cause to bitch should their WoW account become compromised.
The idea that a person who does take general computer security precautions (yet lacks an authenticator) is themselves at fault for being compromised (which seems to be the underlining implication of the 'don't bitch if you don't have it' statements) is a bit of a stretch.
Of course, I'd assume that most of the time, those getting their accounts hacked aren't taking general security precautions. But if that's the case, then lacking an authenticator is not the most prominent issue for those people.
You're missing the point. There is only two parties that can be at fault if you get hacked. (I suppose a nameless third party who does the actual hacking but you can't attack them because you don't know who they are).
Blizzard can have their own servers end up hacked...Now I'm pretty sure Blizzard is unlikely to have their servers be hacked, and if they were, it'd happen once, a huge amount of accounts would be lost, then it'd be fixed. Not this steady stream.
So its pretty certain that its not Blizzard's fault. the only other possible person to blame is you. Maybe its not through stupidity or neglect, maybe you just visited MMO Champion and they had an infected script running on their site.
There is NOTHING Blizzard can do about that. Absolutely nothing. Except offering an authenticator at a relatively cheap price (excluding shippiing of course, fuck australia), in order to help keep your account safe. They are not required to give that for free. Sure, it might be good PR to do so, but free authenticators for everyone would create more trouble than it was worth. Not only would there be the up front cost of supplying authenticators to everyone playing WoW, but also the huge hassle of all the dumb fucks who are like "no i dnt need to use authinkeator omfg blizz dont make it so we hav 2 use dem".
The best approach I can think of, if they do make authenticators mandatory, is to increase the cost of the Cataclysm box set by $6.50 when it goes on sale and include one in the box. Then, to log on to a Cataclysm account, you must have an authenticator attached to it.
I think it was you who missed my point. Kinda an odd point to jump into that conversation, too.
Anyway, I never claimed that Blizzard was/is able to prevent these accounts from being stolen. That doesn't mean that the account holder is suddenly and completely at fault for the account being compromised. Other details might (falling for scams, posting account information on forums, etc.), but that's not something that I think should be assumed to apply to the general case.
You can read my later post on that topic and perhaps glean that my main issue with mturalon's stance was the implication that, if you don't take every possible security measure possible, then you are at fault for the bad things that happen to you. Lacking a home security service doesn't suddenly make a home owner at fault for someone breaking in, after all. The fact that this is just a computer game, or that it's just six-fifty for the widget, doesn't somehow magically make the logic any better.
They are not at fault, true. But it is still their responsibility to keep it safe. Responsibility is not the same as fault. If someone's house gets broken into and they don't have locks or security systems, that doesn't make it their fault that they got broken into, but the security of your house is your responsibility, you should not assume someone else will do it for you. To continue that analogy, the less effort you put into securing your house, the less sympathy people are likely to have for you if your house does get broken into, and the same applies to WoW accounts.
Even more so, since the authenticator is a completely foolproof system so far, unless you share it, and thats more than you can say for most home security gadgets.
My entire motivation for making those two posts was the 'at fault' stuff, so, yeah. Nothing really left for me to talk about. I completely agree that taking measures to keep one's account information secure is the account owner's responsibility.
I wouldn't completely agree that the authenticator is completely foolproof (getting it stolen, storing the device's serial code in a file on a computer that later gets / already is compromised, etc.), but yeah, it definitely is a very significant step up in security.
Shipping them standard isn't a good idea anyway, because lots of people already have them. If you ship it standard and 60% of the people buying it already have one then you just wasted a bunch of money. If people simply downloaded script blocker it would solve a lot of problems too, but they're not about to do that either(and they would probably allow some keylogger site anyway)
Maybe they could step up and start selling the darn things in major retail stores. Like some people mentioned, as-is right now, some countries get raped up the a-hole with shipping. I WANT an authenticator, but I'm not dropping 20 bucks and change for one. Being able to walk into EB or Futureshop or whatnot to buy one though, that would be nice. Or even when ordering something online with free shipping, being able to tack one on to take advantage of the shipping.
As is though right now, I choose not to be raped by Blizzard's shipping cost, no matter how badly I may want one.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
The problem with a software authenticator is that a) its not portable by nature like the current physical one/phone versions are b) depending on how it works, it could be compromised by a keylogger like passwords are.
They need to release a damn mobile authenticator for my phone already. I'd buy that.
I have a pay as you use it phone so where I use my phone a couple of times a week would instead be multiable times a day
You only need to transmit data to resynch the authenticator, which is once every couple of months if that. Otherwise it's just an application for your phone like Snake. I use mine on a phone with a prepay plan.
It's 18 here, which implies that you are an adult and can handle your own finances.
Furthermore, you get a debit card when you open up a bank account. When I read about 30 year old men without access to a debit/credit card, it implies they don't even have a bank account.
Or there are people like my wife and I who have ordered our authenticators but while waiting for them to arrive my wife's account became compromised. Happened last night, no phone support in europe over the weekend, and 4 hours and still no GM response.
We've checked everything, there is nothing in her browsing history, unusual programs running, nothing came up on hijack/s&d/avast/adaware and even so, one of the accounts she accesses is mine in order to use our AH bank. My account is fine. Nobody else knows her login details and she doesn't browse sites like wowhead or wow-champion, that's done on my machine. Every other possible precaution has been taken so that leaves things like brute-forcing, which sucks.
3 weeks for an authenticator and still waiting, 1 account compromised, thanks Blizzard.
I've been queued as a 70 DK tank for literally whole minutes at this point! What's up, Vindication battlegroup? Not interested in 9 am EST Nexus runs!? :-/
So instead I'm flying slowly across the damned continent to pick up the quests for UK, in the event I get it.
The LFD system seems to be very streaky at times, and not just in the "everyone abandons Oculus, so it shows up all the time" sense. Some days I'll do nothing but Nexus back to back, other days I'll get 4 UK runs in a row. (I'm aware this is the nature of a random system, just bitching)
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
0
jackalFuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse.Registered Userregular
edited January 2010
How much does specs matter at low level? I want to tank with my paladin alt when it hits 15 with the lfg tool, but it sounds like it sucks to solo as a tank and I doubt I could be in a group all the time. Either way at that level would I be wearing the same armor in both roles and just change my weapon?
jackal on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Soloing as a tank, I find, is better than soloing as a DPS (depending on class, mostly). F'rex, a low level Warrior has very few defenses, so throwing on that shield helps your survivability a lot.
Specs don't really matter, though. You can easily tank anything up to TBC with a DPS spec.
Personally, I find tanking as a non-tanking spec to be very frustrating. I just find myself often aggravated due to feeling like I'm missing the tools I want to have at my disposal. Assuming you're not spec'd into any kind of threat reduction, I suppose it could work for some people or with the right group, but with the advent of dual-specs, I'll never tank an instance non-tank spec'd again (unless I vastly out gear the place... or I'm rogue-tanking, 'cause I'm just that badass).
And yet strangely I take pride in healing instances as a non-healing spec, or at least I used to. Again, dual specs means almost never having to worry about it, as my only healing capable class that isn't Holy or Resto is my Paladin.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
If you're a tank or healer? Instant groups.
If you're a DPS? 20 minute queues.
Worst case is 20 mintues. I get picked up in a minute or two sometimes around 5 or so most of the time. The tool is absolutely great. Also key to just grab a guild healer or tank and queue together, insta group.
corin7 on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Depends on your battlegroup, mostly. On mine, DPS has 2-10 minute waits. On the one my friend plays, it's apparently 20+ minutes minimum.
Quick DK question: does the speed boost from Unholy Presence work with mounts?
If you're a tank or healer? Instant groups.
If you're a DPS? 20 minute queues.
Worst case is 20 mintues. I get picked up in a minute or two sometimes around 5 or so most of the time. The tool is absolutely great. Also key to just grab a guild healer or tank and queue together, insta group.
If one's available, queuing with a tank or healer does indeed cut wait times dramatically. Queuing as dps solo is either a fool's game or a chance to finish a quest or go grab a quick bio break before the instance, depending on how you see it.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I'm pretty sure the better geared your dps is the shorter your wait time. When I queue on my hunter the average wait time says 13 minutes, but I only have to wait a minute or two.
So how well does this new looking for dungeon thing work?
Depends on time of day/server cluster if you're DPS. My rogue went from hitting 80 to fully decked out in badge gear and a 4500+ gearscore in less than a week. Usually sat in the queue for maybe 5 minutes. Playing another char on another server cluster it's 10-20 minutes between groups which turns into doing something else on the side while waiting for the sound to tell me it's finally time.
I'm pretty sure the better geared your dps is the shorter your wait time. When I queue on my hunter the average wait time says 13 minutes, but I only have to wait a minute or two.
To a point. If you're not geared well enough, there aren't as many places open to you, which might slow things down, but once you're able to do most of the zones I can't imagine it's all that much faster based on gear.
Also, that's the average time. I've seen the average wait claim to be 31 minutes, but get in a group as solo dps in only 5, and it's claimed to be 1 minute and had to wait 5-10 as a solo tank.
Just depends on who else (in terms of level, gear level and chosen instances) is queuing in your battlegroup.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Ten to fifteen minutes is what I generally get on my mage. I was thrown off by the first queue I did, took about one minute. Every one after that was obviously far longer.
Some day I'll need to try the tool with my alts while leveling, but I always feel bad about having classes that can heal or tank in a DPS spec.
Posts
edit: it's 4AM and a slow typing night
You don't think free authenticators for 11 million people would represent a substantial cost?
It's a $6.50 authenticator. How much is the security of your account (the password aspect of which is your responsibility, not Blizzard's) worth to you?
I think it was you who missed my point. Kinda an odd point to jump into that conversation, too.
Anyway, I never claimed that Blizzard was/is able to prevent these accounts from being stolen. That doesn't mean that the account holder is suddenly and completely at fault for the account being compromised. Other details might (falling for scams, posting account information on forums, etc.), but that's not something that I think should be assumed to apply to the general case.
You can read my later post on that topic and perhaps glean that my main issue with mturalon's stance was the implication that, if you don't take every possible security measure possible, then you are at fault for the bad things that happen to you. Lacking a home security service doesn't suddenly make a home owner at fault for someone breaking in, after all. The fact that this is just a computer game, or that it's just six-fifty for the widget, doesn't somehow magically make the logic any better.
Not much actually.
Look, if it becomes mandatory, I'll definitely buy one. The trouble for me comes from the fact that I don't own any credit cards - which is why I only buy prepaids. I hope they'll be at least packing authenticators with Cataclysm CEs because I plan to get one anyway.
I wonder if they did require it and added it to the Cataclysm box
as for the account5 place it seems really fishy when you look at the other info what are they really
They are not at fault, true. But it is still their responsibility to keep it safe. Responsibility is not the same as fault. If someone's house gets broken into and they don't have locks or security systems, that doesn't make it their fault that they got broken into, but the security of your house is your responsibility, you should not assume someone else will do it for you. To continue that analogy, the less effort you put into securing your house, the less sympathy people are likely to have for you if your house does get broken into, and the same applies to WoW accounts.
Even more so, since the authenticator is a completely foolproof system so far, unless you share it, and thats more than you can say for most home security gadgets.
I wouldn't completely agree that the authenticator is completely foolproof (getting it stolen, storing the device's serial code in a file on a computer that later gets / already is compromised, etc.), but yeah, it definitely is a very significant step up in security.
PSN = PessimistMaximus
As is though right now, I choose not to be raped by Blizzard's shipping cost, no matter how badly I may want one.
Battletag: Kain#1658
I have a pay as you use it phone so where I use my phone a couple of times a week would instead be multiable times a day
You only need to transmit data to resynch the authenticator, which is once every couple of months if that. Otherwise it's just an application for your phone like Snake. I use mine on a phone with a prepay plan.
Also, um,
What?
:winky:
alternatively, "2010: it's not the stone age anymore"
It can be difficult to get a credit card in some countries, and they certainly don't hand them out to every 13-year-old who wants one unlike the US.
Furthermore, you get a debit card when you open up a bank account. When I read about 30 year old men without access to a debit/credit card, it implies they don't even have a bank account.
We've checked everything, there is nothing in her browsing history, unusual programs running, nothing came up on hijack/s&d/avast/adaware and even so, one of the accounts she accesses is mine in order to use our AH bank. My account is fine. Nobody else knows her login details and she doesn't browse sites like wowhead or wow-champion, that's done on my machine. Every other possible precaution has been taken so that leaves things like brute-forcing, which sucks.
3 weeks for an authenticator and still waiting, 1 account compromised, thanks Blizzard.
I've been queued as a 70 DK tank for literally whole minutes at this point! What's up, Vindication battlegroup? Not interested in 9 am EST Nexus runs!? :-/
So instead I'm flying slowly across the damned continent to pick up the quests for UK, in the event I get it.
The LFD system seems to be very streaky at times, and not just in the "everyone abandons Oculus, so it shows up all the time" sense. Some days I'll do nothing but Nexus back to back, other days I'll get 4 UK runs in a row. (I'm aware this is the nature of a random system, just bitching)
Specs don't really matter, though. You can easily tank anything up to TBC with a DPS spec.
And yet strangely I take pride in healing instances as a non-healing spec, or at least I used to. Again, dual specs means almost never having to worry about it, as my only healing capable class that isn't Holy or Resto is my Paladin.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
If you're a DPS? 20 minute queues.
Worst case is 20 mintues. I get picked up in a minute or two sometimes around 5 or so most of the time. The tool is absolutely great. Also key to just grab a guild healer or tank and queue together, insta group.
Quick DK question: does the speed boost from Unholy Presence work with mounts?
Que with a tank or healer and boom it's game time
Depends on time of day/server cluster if you're DPS. My rogue went from hitting 80 to fully decked out in badge gear and a 4500+ gearscore in less than a week. Usually sat in the queue for maybe 5 minutes. Playing another char on another server cluster it's 10-20 minutes between groups which turns into doing something else on the side while waiting for the sound to tell me it's finally time.
Also seems worse during primetime.
To a point. If you're not geared well enough, there aren't as many places open to you, which might slow things down, but once you're able to do most of the zones I can't imagine it's all that much faster based on gear.
Also, that's the average time. I've seen the average wait claim to be 31 minutes, but get in a group as solo dps in only 5, and it's claimed to be 1 minute and had to wait 5-10 as a solo tank.
Just depends on who else (in terms of level, gear level and chosen instances) is queuing in your battlegroup.
I que with my brother's mage it's about 13 or so
No.
DKs are the opposite of Paladins for speed stuff.
DKs get run speed for free, but must spend talents to get Mount Speed.
Paladins get mount speed for free, but must spend talents to get run speed.
My healer usually has to wait between 3 and 5min before popping. When he was dual-spec'd feral.. and queued as a tank, it was always instant.
Some day I'll need to try the tool with my alts while leveling, but I always feel bad about having classes that can heal or tank in a DPS spec.
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