Its not that I have something against animated take downs, it just sounds really jarring/out of place. Its an FPS, but it moves to TPS just to show me do the same take-down over and over? I get the idea, but not the appeal.
Mostly I dislike how they freeze your character in vulnerable situations. If you were expecting to take someone down in an open hallway, good luck. Now you get to sit there for 10 seconds while your character does a ballet and an enemy walks around the corner to catch. Compared to typical FPS stealth procedure:
Deathblows in Dragon Age annoy the fuck out of me for this exact reason.
In Deus Ex 1, if you swung at an enemy but noticed another coming around the corner, you could quickly backpedal and escape.
If they put in animated takedowns, the animation needs to be either less than a couple seconds long, or be able to be toggled on or off, or its going to really ruin the game for me.
Whatever shall we do if they put in takedowns that are more than a couple of seconds long? The game is unplayable. They have ruined the game. We can't play it anymore.
It's exactly bullshit like this that Harvey Smith was talking about. Extreme people with extreme ideas, resulting in Invisible War. Noise that you need to ignore if you want to make a solid product.
Whatever shall we do if they put in takedowns that are more than a couple of seconds long? The game is unplayable. They have ruined the game. We can't play it anymore.
It's exactly bullshit like this that Harvey Smith was talking about. Extreme people with extreme ideas, resulting in Invisible War. Noise that you need to ignore if you want to make a solid product.
This.
People waste so much time and energy fretting about stuff they don't really know anything about.
If the selection box around people I can talk to is a circle rather than a square or a rectangle it will be so bad that it will make the first Deus Ex a bad game retroactively.
TychoCelchuuu on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Animated takedowns seem completely fine to me in that it would replace missing a swipe at a chunk of space a couple inches square on a guy's back and then being screwed as everyone on the planet suddenly knows you are. As long as the takedowns are quick, it's pretty much the exact same mechanic as swatting people in the spine with a baton except without being punished for sneaking because you can't see the invisible target box. Shouldn't be a problem at all as long as you can't just sprint up to people's faces and knock them out instantly and be able to do it to an entire level full of bad guys.
Much more concerned and interested in how augmentations and skills are going to play out. Almost infinitely more concerned.
Whatever shall we do if they put in takedowns that are more than a couple of seconds long? The game is unplayable. They have ruined the game. We can't play it anymore.
It's exactly bullshit like this that Harvey Smith was talking about. Extreme people with extreme ideas, resulting in Invisible War. Noise that you need to ignore if you want to make a solid product.
I'm inclined to agree.
If you're doing 'stealth kills' in an area where you're locked into an animation and you get caught, you were probably going to get caught anyway. The same thing happened to me in Tenchu 3, and it stopped when I took a bit more time isolating enemies. It wasn't a problem with the engine, it was a problem with me rushing it.
manwiththemachinegun on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Yeah. Not to mention takedown animations in stealth mechanics isn't exactly new.
Whatever shall we do if they put in takedowns that are more than a couple of seconds long? The game is unplayable. They have ruined the game. We can't play it anymore.
It's exactly bullshit like this that Harvey Smith was talking about. Extreme people with extreme ideas, resulting in Invisible War. Noise that you need to ignore if you want to make a solid product.
Oh no, people talking about things in games they don't like. Whatever will we do? I know, lets claim they're extreme and dismiss their criticism! I bet you didn't like universal ammo in DX2, well you're just an extremely silly goose who ruins games!
There has been a lot of false association happening in games lately. A game comes out and its a good game, and it has some feature or gimmick. All of a sudden every game has to have that feature or gimmick. It ain't true, the feature or gimmick could be bad. I do not like takedown animations. This does not mean they're ruin a game, certainly the game can have other aspects which are good which make up for it, it just means that I don't like them. I do not like it when, during gameplay, i am not in control of the character. I am sure a number of other people agree.
It wont ruin the game, but it doesn't make it a good thing.
If you can't argue without being a dickhead, you can't argue on these forums. Be excellent to each other or go elsewhere.
Tube on
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
So I finally watched the newest trailer for Human Revolution (yeah, super late, I know). And what do you know, I really like it. Still am mostly ambivalent toward the game itself, but they did manage to tick my interest up a notch.
So good job Eidos. For the love of god please deliver.
I am playing this game for the third time and only this third time managed to beat the first level. The graphics areoudated, but the game mechanics are actually quite good. It reminds me of Thief, really. It's a tad easy on Hard, but I'm worried it's going to get harder. It is really fucking badass sneaking through enemy installations, whacking the occasional enemy with a baton and just being quiet and invisible to complete your objective with ease.
I feel like the silliest of geese. I recently put down a couple hundred CDN$ with Amazon, all RPGs. Deus Ex is sitting there for a couple bucks, along with the Thief series, all a couple bucks a piece. I've been playing the "extended" demo for a decade, damn it.
Why did I forget?
I blame those same bastards that switched out the Orange. He was right, they do it on purpose.
Nothing ground breaking, but its always nice to see universal ammo being spoken of lowly. Honestly, I never even realized the ammo was universal in IW. I was young and sily, and just knew my ammo kept miraculously disappearing for assorted weapons. Good times.
Klash on
We don't even care... whether we care or not...
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ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
I feel like the silliest of geese. I recently put down a couple hundred CDN$ with Amazon, all RPGs. Deus Ex is sitting there for a couple bucks, along with the Thief series, all a couple bucks a piece. I've been playing the "extended" demo for a decade, damn it.
Why did I forget?
I blame those same bastards that switched out the Orange. He was right, they do it on purpose.
Nothing ground breaking, but its always nice to see universal ammo being spoken of lowly. Honestly, I never even realized the ammo was universal in IW. I was young and sily, and just knew my ammo kept miraculously disappearing for assorted weapons. Good times.
So, you bastards got me to replay Deus Ex yet again. I had already beaten it with shifter some time ago but I have to admit that Biomod has made it a new fresh game again. The only thing bugging me is that I learned about the unique weapons that shifter adds (picked up the magnum in the plane) and was wondering if anyone had found or compiled a list of where they all are? I searched this and previous DE threads and didn't find it and Google has failed me as well. This game brings out the ocd in me, and having stronger weapons is always cool.
The lack of dx3 news during e3 is making me a sad panda. All the journalists are getting the closed door hands-off preview, so no one is showing what it looks like in action.
Yeah, gameplay of this was just about the one thing I was interested in throughout the entire E3.
Square Enix has a large area, but question is if they brought anything from Eidos.
BlackDove on
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ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
You know, it occured to me today when watching that trailer again.... the first Deus Ex would have been better with a less exposition-y intro movie.
I mean, a good chunk of the anticipation of 3 is not knowing what the plot is. We know it's conspiricies and evil plots involving mechanical augs, but we don't know who's doing what how. In DE1, you know, righ toff the bat, who the bad guys are. They tell you before the game starts. I mean, you meet
Simons
really early on, and are all 'Hey, you're the evil henchman from the intro!' Heck, I wanted to kill him the first time I played. Not possible, sadly...
Anyway - could I do it, I would play DE1 without the intro giving me all the a priori knowledge about what's going on. Anyone played it without that? Different?
I don't understand what Eidos is doing here. They release a great trailer right before E3, generating a lot of buzz. Then they start showing off all the advertising/marketing at E3 for this game. Then...nothing further.
I mean, the game is supposed to come out early next year -- you'd think they'd be ready to show some gameplay. Is there another convention soon that they plan to actually unveil the game at?
You know, it occured to me today when watching that trailer again.... the first Deus Ex would have been better with a less exposition-y intro movie.
I mean, a good chunk of the anticipation of 3 is not knowing what the plot is. We know it's conspiricies and evil plots involving mechanical augs, but we don't know who's doing what how. In DE1, you know, righ toff the bat, who the bad guys are. They tell you before the game starts. I mean, you meet
Simons
really early on, and are all 'Hey, you're the evil henchman from the intro!' Heck, I wanted to kill him the first time I played. Not possible, sadly...
Anyway - could I do it, I would play DE1 without the intro giving me all the a priori knowledge about what's going on. Anyone played it without that? Different?
I... honestly don't remember seeing an intro for DE1. Are we talking about an intro before the menu or upon hitting new game?
Simons and Crazy Doctor #56 are talking about the virus and introducing the player to all the places he'll go to in the game. The sequence ends with the camera zooming in on the Crazy Doctor's red evil menacing evil superevil eye as he cackles on world domination or something or other and then you're dropped on Liberty island to do what you do.
I don't understand what Eidos is doing here. They release a great trailer right before E3, generating a lot of buzz. Then they start showing off all the advertising/marketing at E3 for this game. Then...nothing further.
I mean, the game is supposed to come out early next year -- you'd think they'd be ready to show some gameplay. Is there another convention soon that they plan to actually unveil the game at?
They will probably show more at gamescon I think it is called.
I think Apogee's point about the introduction revealing too much is in some ways right but in other ways wrong, because I think most people have no idea wtf is going on in the intro and, as we see right here, it's possible to complete the game and not even recognize that the main villain was the guy in the intro movie. Or that there was an intro movie.
Eeh, the fact that Simons was in it and clearly a bad guy, while the entirety of the first act gives you chances to "question" the things Simons does if you catch him in the act (interrogation, hologram phone call, etc.) trying to build up some "suspense" of "this guy may not be what he seems to be" while the intro just gives it away like it's nothing.
No, he's fairly friendly and generally decent in any direct interaction with the player, and many of the lines you're privy to directly with him at the start, are largely neutral (vague) in meaning or reference.
You have to "go out of your way" in UNATCO HQ in order to see him doing the bad shit. Notably the NSF interrogation. Afterward the game forces you to listen in on Manderly's and Simons' conversation, then there's the hacking of the e-mail accounts of people in the UNATCO HQ (optional as well), and other stuff before you get to the elements that point directly at him in the later levels.
What you "realize" as a player on whatever basis off of one scene with him is largely irrelevant. The gigantic finger pointing proof however, that invalidates all of these gameplay design decisions, is the intro itself with the "HA HA HA WE WILL RULE THE WORLD, AND THOSE PEASANTS WILL DIE FROM THE VIRUS WE MADE", with him being one of the two people holding the conversation.
If you were having that, then why bother with all the gameplay design above. Why show me the extent of his private character in small bits, going from friendly/neutral in direct interaction with the player (whilst attempting to hold the mirage of UNATCO being a totally cool agency), to total douchebag, if you were going to spoil for me that "Yeah, he's a total douchebag" from the word go.
As the first act is all about portraying UNATCO as a benevolent company (through the newspapers you find to the codes of conduct in books) until Paul starts telling you the shit, and the way it happens is that you're still given the choice to act in UNATCO's interest if you bought into it, with your small decisions along the way "to discovery".
When you're doing that with the entire gameplay system, that pre-existing intro runs counter to all of it.
BlackDove on
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Still though
He had that voice
And that outfit
It was basically screaming bad guy at you the entire time
Walton Simmons was an absurdly obvious bad guy. You can say "no he wasn't" all you like, but if you didn't come out of that first conversation thinking "oh, I guess that's the bad guy" you are conceivably the only person on earth.
Walton Simmons was an absurdly obvious bad guy. You can say "no he wasn't" all you like, but if you didn't come out of that first conversation thinking "oh, I guess that's the bad guy" you are conceivably the only person on earth.
Yeah, he might as well wield a red dragon tooth sword.
Posts
I hope I can do that
The preview said you could talk to everyone on the street and they all had different dialog.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Deathblows in Dragon Age annoy the fuck out of me for this exact reason.
In Deus Ex 1, if you swung at an enemy but noticed another coming around the corner, you could quickly backpedal and escape.
If they put in animated takedowns, the animation needs to be either less than a couple seconds long, or be able to be toggled on or off, or its going to really ruin the game for me.
Whatever shall we do if they put in takedowns that are more than a couple of seconds long? The game is unplayable. They have ruined the game. We can't play it anymore.
It's exactly bullshit like this that Harvey Smith was talking about. Extreme people with extreme ideas, resulting in Invisible War. Noise that you need to ignore if you want to make a solid product.
This.
People waste so much time and energy fretting about stuff they don't really know anything about.
Much more concerned and interested in how augmentations and skills are going to play out. Almost infinitely more concerned.
I'm inclined to agree.
If you're doing 'stealth kills' in an area where you're locked into an animation and you get caught, you were probably going to get caught anyway. The same thing happened to me in Tenchu 3, and it stopped when I took a bit more time isolating enemies. It wasn't a problem with the engine, it was a problem with me rushing it.
There has been a lot of false association happening in games lately. A game comes out and its a good game, and it has some feature or gimmick. All of a sudden every game has to have that feature or gimmick. It ain't true, the feature or gimmick could be bad. I do not like takedown animations. This does not mean they're ruin a game, certainly the game can have other aspects which are good which make up for it, it just means that I don't like them. I do not like it when, during gameplay, i am not in control of the character. I am sure a number of other people agree.
It wont ruin the game, but it doesn't make it a good thing.
Good to know you agree with everything I wrote.
So good job Eidos. For the love of god please deliver.
And baton you in the spine, then chop up your "sleeping" body into into a splatter of "sleeping" meaty chunks.
Why did I forget?
I blame those same bastards that switched out the Orange. He was right, they do it on purpose.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101340-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-Designer-Talks-Invisible-War
Nothing ground breaking, but its always nice to see universal ammo being spoken of lowly. Honestly, I never even realized the ammo was universal in IW. I was young and sily, and just knew my ammo kept miraculously disappearing for assorted weapons. Good times.
Wait, you skipped Deus Ex AND THIEF??
-Z
Yeah, that's one of the missions added by Thief Gold, and they mostly aren't very good.
Square Enix has a large area, but question is if they brought anything from Eidos.
I mean, a good chunk of the anticipation of 3 is not knowing what the plot is. We know it's conspiricies and evil plots involving mechanical augs, but we don't know who's doing what how. In DE1, you know, righ toff the bat, who the bad guys are. They tell you before the game starts. I mean, you meet
Anyway - could I do it, I would play DE1 without the intro giving me all the a priori knowledge about what's going on. Anyone played it without that? Different?
No gameplay though
I wanna see gameplay
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I mean, the game is supposed to come out early next year -- you'd think they'd be ready to show some gameplay. Is there another convention soon that they plan to actually unveil the game at?
I... honestly don't remember seeing an intro for DE1. Are we talking about an intro before the menu or upon hitting new game?
Simons and Crazy Doctor #56 are talking about the virus and introducing the player to all the places he'll go to in the game. The sequence ends with the camera zooming in on the Crazy Doctor's red evil menacing evil superevil eye as he cackles on world domination or something or other and then you're dropped on Liberty island to do what you do.
They will probably show more at gamescon I think it is called.
Well, I guess I wasn't wrong.
But still.
Intro kinda sucked and was largely unnecessary.
You have to "go out of your way" in UNATCO HQ in order to see him doing the bad shit. Notably the NSF interrogation. Afterward the game forces you to listen in on Manderly's and Simons' conversation, then there's the hacking of the e-mail accounts of people in the UNATCO HQ (optional as well), and other stuff before you get to the elements that point directly at him in the later levels.
What you "realize" as a player on whatever basis off of one scene with him is largely irrelevant. The gigantic finger pointing proof however, that invalidates all of these gameplay design decisions, is the intro itself with the "HA HA HA WE WILL RULE THE WORLD, AND THOSE PEASANTS WILL DIE FROM THE VIRUS WE MADE", with him being one of the two people holding the conversation.
If you were having that, then why bother with all the gameplay design above. Why show me the extent of his private character in small bits, going from friendly/neutral in direct interaction with the player (whilst attempting to hold the mirage of UNATCO being a totally cool agency), to total douchebag, if you were going to spoil for me that "Yeah, he's a total douchebag" from the word go.
As the first act is all about portraying UNATCO as a benevolent company (through the newspapers you find to the codes of conduct in books) until Paul starts telling you the shit, and the way it happens is that you're still given the choice to act in UNATCO's interest if you bought into it, with your small decisions along the way "to discovery".
When you're doing that with the entire gameplay system, that pre-existing intro runs counter to all of it.
He had that voice
And that outfit
It was basically screaming bad guy at you the entire time
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Yeah, he might as well wield a red dragon tooth sword.