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[!] Metal Gear Monday - MARK ALL SPOILERS, some people are still virgins in here.

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    IgortIgort Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Willeth wrote: »
    I enjoyed the first act. But I hear there's apparently a forty-minute long cutscene.

    So, there's that.

    A couple of the longer cutscenes (even in MGS2 it does this) it will ask if you want to save in the middle of them and then you can go off and do other stuff if you're bored.

    Very thoughtful of them.

    Igort on
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    apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    Igort wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    I enjoyed the first act. But I hear there's apparently a forty-minute long cutscene.

    So, there's that.

    A couple of the longer cutscenes (even in MGS2 it does this) it will ask if you want to save in the middle of them and then you can go off and do other stuff if you're bored.

    Very thoughtful of them.

    I don't recall and MGS game hitting a 40 minute cutscene. I thought only the Xenosaga games transcend to that level of non-interactivity.

    If you are not completely enthralled by each story moment you are playing the wrong fucking series and should pack it in now.

    apotheos on


    猿も木から落ちる
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    IgortIgort Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    apotheos wrote: »
    Igort wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    I enjoyed the first act. But I hear there's apparently a forty-minute long cutscene.

    So, there's that.

    A couple of the longer cutscenes (even in MGS2 it does this) it will ask if you want to save in the middle of them and then you can go off and do other stuff if you're bored.

    Very thoughtful of them.

    I don't recall and MGS game hitting a 40 minute cutscene. I thought only the Xenosaga games transcend to that level of non-interactivity.

    If you are not completely enthralled by each story moment you are playing the wrong fucking series and should pack it in now.

    Major MGS4 spoiler here:
    The sequence with Big Boss in MGS4 alone is a half hour, not including the rest of the game's ending (from defeating Liquid to the credits) so that is most definitly over 40 minutes.

    Aside from that, I don't think any other cutscene reaches close to that.

    Igort on
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Why ask you to save during a cutscene? Can't they just let you skip it?

    cooljammer00 on
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Why ask you to save during a cutscene? Can't they just let you skip it?

    Because you want to watch it, you just don't want to watch it now. Maybe dinner's ready? Maybe you have a bus to catch? The wonderful rainbow of life!

    Jam Warrior on
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    At one point weren't they going to let you rewind and fast-foward through MGS4 cutscenes?

    Speed Racer on
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    At one point weren't they going to let you rewind and fast-foward through MGS4 cutscenes?

    That's one thing about movies that they SHOULD emulate. Not the length, the ability to choose to watch something.

    cooljammer00 on
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    Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Isn't 4 when the controls of the game finally resembled something like decent?

    I mean 1's were okay but by 3 it was ridiculous. To shoot while holding a human shield, you hold O to CQC grab, hold R1 to go into first person, aim with the right stick, hold Square to point the gun, release quickly to fire. If I remember right.

    Portable Ops' controls would be great if not for the damn camera.

    Dr Snofeld on
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    saluksicsaluksic Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Monger wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Monger wrote: »
    But I'd argue that MGS2 is the most important experience in the series, if not the best. If nothing else, it's my favorite.

    Hmm. Explain


    I didn't hate MGS2, but it seemed too nonsensical for me (nonsense in MGS.. say what!?).

    I'm not gonna speak for him, but personally I think the whole thing was a really important experimentation with what you could do with video games as a storytelling medium. It wasn't necessarily a successful experiment, but I think it deserves a lot of credit for charting those waters.
    Did not see that post. But yes, that. There's just, on a conceptual level, some very clever things going on in the design of that game. It plays with stuff specific to the medium that nobody else really did until Shadow of the Colossus. And SotC is still in pretty exclusive company as far as its design goes. If you've played through it, this analysis is a good showpiece for why MGS2 is noteworthy.

    It's also just goddamn weird. And that's never a bad thing.

    Holy crap that's a good analysis. Wow, I just want to go back and play MGS2 again.

    I recently played MGS3 again. It is my favorite video game ever, and I cry at the end every time I beat it. It it is a whole experience, like a long, thick, novel.

    It made me want to play MGS2 again, and when I did, I loved it. I remembered it being long and dull and without any real flavor or excitement, but I was wrong. I think its easier to enjoy 2 after playing 3. 2 spoofs 1 and turn the expectations of 1 on its head, so it doesn't sit well with some people. But 3 is delightful, adventurous, and did a good job opening my mind for anything I'd find in 2.

    saluksic on
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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I remember playing through MGS2 as a 10 (?) year-old, and while I didn't particularly undesrstand it back then, I still thought it was awesome and one fo the most engaging things I'd ever played.

    I played it again a few weeks ago, and it may e the only game I remember playing from then that's anywhere near as good as I rememeber it being, especially if you understand what you're doing this time around.

    Biosys on
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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    saluksic wrote: »
    Monger wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Monger wrote: »
    But I'd argue that MGS2 is the most important experience in the series, if not the best. If nothing else, it's my favorite.

    Hmm. Explain


    I didn't hate MGS2, but it seemed too nonsensical for me (nonsense in MGS.. say what!?).

    I'm not gonna speak for him, but personally I think the whole thing was a really important experimentation with what you could do with video games as a storytelling medium. It wasn't necessarily a successful experiment, but I think it deserves a lot of credit for charting those waters.
    Did not see that post. But yes, that. There's just, on a conceptual level, some very clever things going on in the design of that game. It plays with stuff specific to the medium that nobody else really did until Shadow of the Colossus. And SotC is still in pretty exclusive company as far as its design goes. If you've played through it, this analysis is a good showpiece for why MGS2 is noteworthy.

    It's also just goddamn weird. And that's never a bad thing.

    Holy crap that's a good analysis. Wow, I just want to go back and play MGS2 again.

    I recently played MGS3 again. It is my favorite video game ever, and I cry at the end every time I beat it. It it is a whole experience, like a long, thick, novel.

    It made me want to play MGS2 again, and when I did, I loved it. I remembered it being long and dull and without any real flavor or excitement, but I was wrong. I think its easier to enjoy 2 after playing 3. 2 spoofs 1 and turn the expectations of 1 on its head, so it doesn't sit well with some people. But 3 is delightful, adventurous, and did a good job opening my mind for anything I'd find in 2.

    I maintain that 2 is almost completely understandable after you play 3.

    Renzo on
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    WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    apotheos wrote: »
    I actually did this last year. Had a very good time doing it, and Renzo is very accurate in that 4 practically coasts on fan-service to the franchise. The ambition of MGS4 circumscribes the appalling limitations, explaining the relative non-penetration into the mainstream, of narrative gaming.

    My own tips:

    MS3 must be played with the Subsistence version. The anthology collection has that (but not the bonus disk from Subsistence which you don't need unless you want to go ridiculously completest and play accurate versions of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2).

    MGS1 should be played on the GameCube/Wii if possible. The negative things this brings into the equation do not matter in the sligtest to someone in your position. The positives are huge - looks nicers, plays easier.

    If there is a difficulty selector - and honestly I can't remember if there is or not - play on Easy. This series is about the spectacle. Aside from 3, they are barely good games anyway. Consume them ravenously, like you would eat all you can eat ribs.

    The MGS4 encyclopedia is required reading after you've done all 4.

    Portable Ops on PSP can be skipped unless you really want something portable. It fits in series canon, but plays like garbage, and has a much lamer storytelling style. The spectacle is greatly reduced, thus its impact is lessened.

    I have access to a copy of Twin Snakes. Is it really the way to do it? I've heard a lot of people say that putting the controls from the second one into the first one doesn't work.

    I also already own 3, or at the very least have a copy in the house. Is it really worth getting hold of a copy of Subsistence, or should I just go ahead with what I have?

    Willeth on
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    Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Willeth wrote: »
    apotheos wrote: »
    I actually did this last year. Had a very good time doing it, and Renzo is very accurate in that 4 practically coasts on fan-service to the franchise. The ambition of MGS4 circumscribes the appalling limitations, explaining the relative non-penetration into the mainstream, of narrative gaming.

    My own tips:

    MS3 must be played with the Subsistence version. The anthology collection has that (but not the bonus disk from Subsistence which you don't need unless you want to go ridiculously completest and play accurate versions of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2).

    MGS1 should be played on the GameCube/Wii if possible. The negative things this brings into the equation do not matter in the sligtest to someone in your position. The positives are huge - looks nicers, plays easier.

    If there is a difficulty selector - and honestly I can't remember if there is or not - play on Easy. This series is about the spectacle. Aside from 3, they are barely good games anyway. Consume them ravenously, like you would eat all you can eat ribs.

    The MGS4 encyclopedia is required reading after you've done all 4.

    Portable Ops on PSP can be skipped unless you really want something portable. It fits in series canon, but plays like garbage, and has a much lamer storytelling style. The spectacle is greatly reduced, thus its impact is lessened.

    I have access to a copy of Twin Snakes. Is it really the way to do it? I've heard a lot of people say that putting the controls from the second one into the first one doesn't work.

    I also already own 3, or at the very least have a copy in the house. Is it really worth getting hold of a copy of Subsistence, or should I just go ahead with what I have?

    Having completed both Snake Eater and Subsistence multiple times, my opinion is that it's perfectly possible to play with the Snake Eater camera, if a little annoying in places.

    And as for Twin Snakes it's not so much that the controls don't work as the original game wasn't designed with the abilities you inherit from 2 in mind (first person shooting and hanging, primarily)

    Dr Snofeld on
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    Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think the main improvement subsistance has over MGS3 is the over the shoulder camera.

    Plus other goodies.. i dunno.

    But the camera in MGS3 is just fine to me.

    Skull2185 on
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    Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Did the NTSC version of Snake Eater include Snake vs Ape? I know the PAL version had some extra levels that were later added to Subsistence.

    Dr Snofeld on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    3 makes 2 make more sense. That's true.

    2 is also kinda bland setting wise, and is in the running with 4 for having the most disappointing bosses.

    3 is the best game though.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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    Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Speaking of Snake Vs Ape, we all know about that, but how many of you know its opposite number, Mesal Gear Solid?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xt7hd0kpDE

    Dr Snofeld on
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    Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Metal Gear Solid was the reason I bought a PS1. I saw it at a friend's house and just had to have it. I must have played through that thing 10 times over the years. I have Twin Snakes but I never got far in it since I bought a bunch of Gamecube games at once and moved on to stuff that was new. I may give it another go soon.

    I've played through 2 once and thought it was alright. It took me 2 tries to get through 3, but man, once I got hooked, it was awesome. I have the original versions of 2 and 3, so I don't know anything about the re-issues.

    I'd like to play 4, but it will be a long time before I get a PS3.

    Sir Carcass on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'd love to join you guys in this, but I'm going to be busy all of this Monday. Well, I guess I'll just start a Monday late since I've already beaten 1 and 2 multiple times, and I've also beaten 3, 4, and the original Metal Gear once each, so I should be able to "catch up" quickly. Hell, maybe I'll actually get around to finishing Portable Ops and Metal Gear 2 before Peace Walker comes out.

    Anyways, I'm in agreement that 3 is, by far, the best game in the series. 1 is quite the experience, too. 2 is fun, but a mindfuck and occasionally frustrating and 4 is just a giant love letter to all Metal Gear fans. Regardless, this ought to be a pretty entertaining thread! :D

    Lynx on
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    DasBootDasBoot Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Oh MGS. I got the demo for the first one from Pizza Hut and played it and played it and replayed it until I got a copy of the whole game for xmas. I was weary of playing a Metal Gear game as I have the original for NES (starring Michael Biehn as Kyle Reese as Solid Snake) and as a child it was basically impossible. Goddamn dogs. I may have to participate in this, it has been years since I've played any of these games.

    I played MGS2 in a marathon session after Christmas 2001. My girlfriend at the time (early high school) was having some kind of family crisis at the time and I was on the phone with her during the big long cut scene at the end right before the last bit of the game. I just set the phone down at some point so I could pay attention to whatever the hell was going on. That relationship didn't last much longer, but I think I made the right decision anyway.

    DasBoot on
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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    DasBoot wrote: »
    Oh MGS. I got the demo for the first one from Pizza Hut and played it and played it and replayed it until I got a copy of the whole game for xmas. I was weary of playing a Metal Gear game as I have the original for NES (starring Michael Biehn as Kyle Reese as Solid Snake) and as a child it was basically impossible. Goddamn dogs. I may have to participate in this, it has been years since I've played any of these games.

    I played MGS2 in a marathon session after Christmas 2001. My girlfriend at the time (early high school) was having some kind of family crisis at the time and I was on the phone with her during the big long cut scene at the end right before the last bit of the game. I just set the phone down at some point so I could pay attention to whatever the hell was going on. That relationship didn't last much longer, but I think I made the right decision anyway.

    Hahaha, that's awesome.

    Renzo on
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    KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Mmmmm, Metal Gear thread. It's been a long time, PA.

    Kami on
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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I've only ever played (and finished) these two:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_The_Twin_Snakes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_%28Game_Boy%29
    Willeth wrote: »
    I have access to a copy of Twin Snakes. Is it really the way to do it?
    Yes. Twin Snakes is fantastic.

    Zilla360 on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Guys, no Twin Snakes/Original discussion. It always shits up the thread.

    Best advice I can give people is to play both and make your own decision. If you can't, just play whichever one is more convenient to play for you. Because, honestly, they're both great games and I'd rather us all bask in the awesome that is Metal Gear without it turning into two groups of monkeys flinging shit at each other.

    On a more personal note, holy shit, I forgot about Ghost Babel (AKA Metal Gear Solid GBC in the States). Fantastic game, it's just a shame that it's not canon. :(

    Lynx on
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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Renzo wrote: »
    DasBoot wrote: »
    I played MGS2 in a marathon session after Christmas 2001. My girlfriend at the time (early high school) was having some kind of family crisis at the time and I was on the phone with her during the big long cut scene at the end right before the last bit of the game. I just set the phone down at some point so I could pay attention to whatever the hell was going on. That relationship didn't last much longer, but I think I made the right decision anyway.

    Hahaha, that's awesome.

    This wouldn't be nearly as fitting if you had done this while playing MGS1 or MGS3. It's simply perfect that you ignored your girlfriend to play MGS2, just so you could watch (small MGS2 spoilers)
    Rose complain about being ignored by Raiden.

    Hedgethorn on
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    IgortIgort Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    On a more personal note, holy shit, I forgot about Ghost Babel (AKA Metal Gear Solid GBC in the States). Fantastic game, it's just a shame that it's not canon. :(

    You can work it to being canon, in an unusual way.

    Ghost Babel spoilers:
    After completing all the Mission stages, Mr. X makes a cryptic reference to the unknown participant taking part in the VR missions, referring to them as "Jack".

    Igort on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Igort wrote: »
    Lynx wrote: »
    On a more personal note, holy shit, I forgot about Ghost Babel (AKA Metal Gear Solid GBC in the States). Fantastic game, it's just a shame that it's not canon. :(

    You can work it to being canon, in an unusual way.

    Ghost Babel spoilers:
    After completing all the Mission stages, Mr. X makes a cryptic reference to the unknown participant taking part in the VR missions, referring to them as "Jack".
    I forgot about that. I just always took it as non-canon because, well, that's what Kojima said it was. But, thinking of it as a VR mission for Jack/Raiden is a pretty neat way to keep it 'canon'.

    Lynx on
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    MeepZeroMeepZero Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Monger wrote: »
    But I'd argue that MGS2 is the most important experience in the series, if not the best. If nothing else, it's my favorite.

    Hmm. Explain


    I didn't hate MGS2, but it seemed too nonsensical for me (nonsense in MGS.. say what!?).

    Spoilered for MGS2 stuff
    There are a few bits to it that actually are really unique compared to the other games story wise. It takes everything you knew from the first game and politely continues you on...until the tanker incident. Then it turns you on your head and says, "OK Chump, lets relearn the wheel!" with the story, you end up being a new character, in a new world, and you follow him through the story to the end where he is turned so upside down by the events that it breaks him and he looses all that childlike innocence he had at the beginning.

    On the surface, Riaden sucks, hes naive, dumb, whiny, and has a lot of "real life" baggage holding him back from understanding the world around him. By the time you finish the game he has realized that the world around him is such a gigantic lie that he nearly goes insane (illustrated by the weird codec calls and snake's "infinite ammo" trick) while he tries to cope. The game ends up being more of a philosophical and mental dance than the strict action title that was the first game. Its just so subtle that you dont realize it until a second full playthrough.

    tldr, Raiden is mope mope, then hes mister fancy pants with less mope mope

    MeepZero on
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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    When the MGS collection came out on PS2, I did this. I thought to myself, "Dammit, people love these games, here they all are for cheap, I'm going to try them out."

    So I popped in MGS1, started playing, and I couldn't stop myself until the credits ended on MGS3.

    MGS3 is definitely the best, though I still haven't had a chance to play MGS4, and thankfully I've avoided pretty much all spoilers for it.

    Forever Zefiro on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Not a spoiler for Four.

    Prepare to be disappointed.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    When the MGS collection came out on PS2, I did this. I thought to myself, "Dammit, people love these games, here they all are for cheap, I'm going to try them out."

    So I popped in MGS1, started playing, and I couldn't stop myself until the credits ended on MGS3.

    MGS3 is definitely the best, though I still haven't had a chance to play MGS4, and thankfully I've avoided pretty much all spoilers for it.

    Your opinion on best game probably won't change after playing 4, but if you enjoyed the first three, you'll almost definitely enjoy 4.

    Lynx on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited January 2010
    I've got to echo the people saying 3 is the best.

    1 is great.

    2 is...well it's quite a fun game, but everything else is pretty wretched.

    I bought a PS3 for 4. Worst money I ever spent.

    bongi on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Or not? I didn't realize there were a sizeable chunk of people who didn't like 4! :lol:

    Lynx on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited January 2010
    I did quite enjoy
    the act set in Shadow Moses, but that's really just nostalgia for the first game.

    bongi on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    bongi wrote: »
    I did quite enjoy
    the act set in Shadow Moses, but that's really just nostalgia for the first game.
    I greatly enjoyed the first two acts, Act Four and the final boss of the game. Acts Three and Five, though, were very underwhelming.

    Overall, though, I felt that it was a worthy end to the series, it was just really difficult to follow MGS3.

    Lynx on
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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The only people that hate MGS4 are those who have no soul.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    apotheos wrote: »
    If there is a difficulty selector - and honestly I can't remember if there is or not - play on Easy. This series is about the spectacle. Aside from 3, they are barely good games anyway. Consume them ravenously, like you would eat all you can eat ribs.

    Note that you really shouldn't play 3 on the easiest difficulty. You start with the EZ Gun, which pretty much breaks the game. It's a silent, infinite ammo tranqualizer gun that makes it so that if you're standing still in the open, you recieve the same degree of camoflage as if you were crawling through brush.

    I think that's for Very Easy difficulty, though, so Easy should be fine.

    The Subsistance camera is what you should be using to play the game, but if you're having trouble moving around and observing guards at first with it, try using the original camera until you get the hang of the controls. Once you start to be frustrated by the inability to see distant guards instead of your inability to perform actions correctly, switch to the new camera and you'll probably be fine from that point forward.

    jothki on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited January 2010
    The only people that hate MGS4 are those who have no soul.

    Yes, yes, I have no soul for hating backward, semi-interactive movie with a plot so bad that even Michael Bay would turn it down for being low-quality.

    bongi on
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    apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    4 is great. Its the definitive MGS story. Its grand, over the top, 60% gong show, 30% action, 10% mind altering drugs.

    People take different things out of the different games. One of the reasons I so like Twin Snakes is it adjusts MGS1 away from a credible thriller into the same ridiculousness of MGS4. Video game narratives are often...well...really stupid is the best way to word it. I love video games to death, but their narratives have this ridiculous quality that you only see in bad direct-to-DVD films and terrible genre novels. MGS is the ultimate expression of this lunacy.

    I love it so much.

    apotheos on


    猿も木から落ちる
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    See I like TTS over the top and hate MGS4 for it. I think the cutscenes in 4 are just too long. Act III in particular is 10 minutes of gameplay, boss, 25 minutes of talking, 5 minutes of gamplay, 50 minute movie, end of act.

    That and most of the bosses were stupid, both game play and story wise.

    I think the balance is too far in the action and not enough in the stealth.

    3 got it all right. Story is easy to follow. Cutscenes are long, but not too long. Bosses are epic, but don't go on all day about their ridiculous circumstances. Action is doable with plenty of guns but not 8000 of them, and it takes a lot of work to run and gun through the higher difficulties.

    4 they seemed to leave the fun at home, they forgot the wink and the nod to the camera.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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