[!] Metal Gear Monday - MARK ALL SPOILERS, some people are still virgins in here.

Xenogears of Bore

My biggest problems with Twin Snakes are:

1. The models. Especially the eyes on Snake and Meryl. Creepy and not well done.

2. No VR Missions. Being a remake a few years after the fact you'd think it would have at the very least all the VR missions on the original disks, and possibly those from the Integral release/VR Missions. But nooo, you get nothing.

3. No point to getting the dog tags. At all. Getting dog tags is fun, but there's no incentive at all.

Jubeh

Rex Dart wrote: »

The lessons I took from this were (1) that the only way to get truly good at MGS is to play it enough that you're really familiar with all the rooms and (2) there are lots of creative ways to have fun with the game that aren't immediately apparent.

I just watched Takeshi's 2 hour speed run of mgs2 and it was definitely alot of memorization. Everyone should watch it though, because he is ridiculously good at this game. He never gets hit, doesn't kill anybody, and the only alerts were the mandatory ones.

strategery wrote: »

And the fact that Kojima endorsed the new cut scenes goes to show that he's not above admitting how batshit crazy his plotlines are.

Deadly zanzibar hamsters.

Willeth

So, MGS1. I played up until just shortly after I got the first keycard.

Now, I've played this before. I'm not going to have a huge amount of input on this,because nothing's a huge surprise. However, I'm going to laugh along with all of you now about the lack of thought that went into Mei Ling.

She's supposedly born and raised in America, and yet has that her stupid accent that isn't really appropriate at all. And, of course "it's all made from currently existing technology." Is it? Thanks for that. I'd hate if it was made of something that didn't exist.

Unless, of course, it's some sort of crazy cover and she's not who she says she is. Which I could totally expect from a game as evidently insane as this. I cite Ocelot's arm as an example.

I picked up on Master mentioning something about fieldmice burrowing into holes, which I didn't realise before, but could well be foreshadowing of some kind. I'll have to bear that in mind. I'm also wondering what happens in the cells if I don't pick up the SOCOM from the truck - am I just completely unarmed or do I magically draw a gun like I would in the cutscene?

They sure do throw rations at you, though. I need to stop my habit of resetting the game and starting again if I get spotted, but it seems to me that if I'm careful I won't need half the stuff that's dotted around.

First major frustration: going up the stairs in the tank hangar instead of to the elevator and immediately walking into a camera that I couldn't see because the map doesn't extend past one floor. Similar to that, the annoyance of having the map not show while crawling - I understand the gameplay reasons, but twice I came out from under a tank and there was a guy just outside of my line of sight who immediately caught me. I suppose I could also mention the sleeping guard who wasn't on the radar who I woke with my chaff grenade, but I'm sure he was marked on there and I just didn't see him.

I also remembered the quick reload, but for some reason it didn't seem to activate until after the gunfight with Meryl. I suppose it works now, though. I'm also a little irked that I had forgotten about the keycards - they work in conjunction with your body's magnetic field, but you have to have them equipped to open doors? That seems a little clumsy to me. I can see myself, later in the game, getting stuck because I didn't have the keycard equipped and a door I thought was impassable is actually the way through. We'll see, though.

I am enjoying it, despite my little grievances. I think I'm just picking at it because I've played these parts before, and using the D-Pad isn't exactly easy after being so used to a stick, even if I change the PS3 options to use the stick instead. I'm enjoying the kitschiness of the faces that wobble to speak and the horrible geometry clipping and z-buffer fighting everywhere. I'm looking forward to playing more when I can.

Xenogears of Bore

They fix all the goofy accents in Twin Snakes, another plus in its favor.

Of course a strike against it is that the rest of the cast besides the snakes and ocelot sound a bit wooden in their deliveries. Something about being unhappy about a pay increase or something.

Monger

Willeth wrote: »

And, of course "it's all made from currently existing technology." Is it? Thanks for that. I'd hate if it was made of something that didn't exist.

That is easily my favorite line in the game.

Yes, favoriter than love blooming on the battlefield or Fortune Teller Mantis.

Jubeh

Man they say that currently existing technology line in part 2. I though it was some weird mistake, but it can't be if it was in two games.

What exactly are they trying to say there.

Renzo

If they say it in MGS2, the line is probably there just to mimic MGS1.

Willeth

Renzo wrote: »

If they say it in MGS2, the line is probably there just to mimic MGS1.

Yeah, it's probably a joke at their own expense. I can't imagine people didn't call it out at the time.

Dunxco

Fuck you Psycho Mantis, I'm not just a man who kicks his tyres, I kick everyone's tyres.

And I did enjoy Eternal Darkness.

Jubeh

I guess its some sort of message to the player, like, "Hey this shit actually exists."

Or just bad writing.

Dunxco

Jubeh wrote: »

I guess its some sort of message to the player, like, "Hey this shit actually exists."

Or just bad writing.

Food for thought: Consider whether or not these instances of bad writing are intentional. The amount of times you see the words "Metal Gear?!" leaves you kinda wondering what sort of in-joke they've got flying around in the office.

Monger

Dunxco wrote: »

Jubeh wrote: »

I guess its some sort of message to the player, like, "Hey this shit actually exists."

Or just bad writing.

Food for thought: Consider whether or not these instances of bad writing are intentional. The amount of times you see the words "Metal Gear?!" leaves you kinda wondering what sort of in-joke they've got flying around in the office.

It's completely intentional.

Maybe some of you aren't familiar with Hideo Kojima.

Dude has no respect for the fourth wall.

Jubeh

I'm starting to develop a lot of respect for that, seeing as how games are all trying to be more immersive and cinematic than each other, and a guy on the codec screen in metal gear is literally telling me "Press the Action Button."

Not to mention all these little easter eggish things that you could only really do in a video game. Like throwing a frog at volgin, and giving snake a razor and watching his bear disappear.

Dunxco

My favourite little dialogue bit?

On the tank catwalk in MGS1 for the Playstation, there's a Codec conversation about how Snake's footsteps will alert the guards, and Miller tries to teach Snake to sneak on his feet. He can't do it due to the Playstation controls not having pressure sensitivity (outside of the analogue stick). There is no walking for Snake.

Cut to Twin Snakes, and when the same call crops up, Snake acts all proud cause he gets it in one and you can actually sneak without crawling.

Willeth

GAH DO NOT READ THAT POST GUYS

So. Those are incorrectly marked spoilers by someone who can't edit.

what the fuck happens now

DarkWarrior

We all gonna die!

I've asked a mod to fix it, just have to hope he gets the message/

Willeth

I've reported it for the same reason, it should get fixed soon. In the mean time, title edit.

EDIT: Guess it got deleted. Bingo.

apotheos

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

My biggest problems with Twin Snakes are:

1. The models. Especially the eyes on Snake and Meryl. Creepy and not well done.

2. No VR Missions. Being a remake a few years after the fact you'd think it would have at the very least all the VR missions on the original disks, and possibly those from the Integral release/VR Missions. But nooo, you get nothing.

3. No point to getting the dog tags. At all. Getting dog tags is fun, but there's no incentive at all.

I totally agree with #2 and #3. But as I found both pieces of content boring as can be the first time around I hardly call them a penalty.

apotheos

Always use preview with spoilers, kids.

Xenogears of Bore

Wait, DW is perma jailed? I mean, it was rare to see you unjailed but still.

Kinda like failing over and over again at killing The End in MGS3...

DarkWarrior

Kojima really pushed my love with the last one. I mean you have scenes like

the microwave hallway, the return to Shadow Moses, the Best is Yet to Come, Rex, the final fist-fight

but then you have stuff like

trying to boost Raiden by having him stop a fucking floating city. Grey Fox Vs Rex I can buy, its such a goddamn bad ass moment but Raiden V a ship? I mean that kind of strength? He should've been tearing apart the Metal Gears with his bare hands.

And Drebin...fuck Drebin, the spiel he came out with would embarass even the most bizarre of Anime series, its just the stupidest fucking shit I have ever heard and if someone had walked in while it was going on I'd have been eager to switch the channel to a backup console playing images of Vamp molesting dead-soldiers to lessen the humiliation.

Xenogears of Bore

My buddy and I both do decent Drebin impersonations so the fall after MGS4 came out was pretty fun.

"One day Little Red Riding Hood was walking in the forest, going to visit her sick grandma, etc, etc, then something hilariously over the top tragic, and suddenly little red riding hood could only see in red, something something."

Like that, all afternoon long. We'd try to crack each other up by making the story more and more ridiculous.

I think the final one involved a girl named Jillian being horribly burned in a tragic Macaroni and Cheese accident instigated by Quebec separatists.

Bursar

Jubeh wrote: »

Man they say that currently existing technology line in part 2. I though it was some weird mistake, but it can't be if it was in two games.

What exactly are they trying to say there.

I don't see how that's such a strange turn of phrase. I've always understood it to mean that it was made from off-the shelf parts; they didn't have to make any new advances in science to build it.

manwiththemachinegun

I'm actually really looking forward to Rising, Raiden deserved another shot. It's not his fault Kojima is crazy.

miscellaneousinsanity

I'm looking forward to Peace Walker, myself. Raiden was completely brilliant as a character in MGS2, there's no need to continue in making him just another action hero. The most recent trailer for PW, on the other hand, has me the most excited I've been for a videogame since the Japanese Snake Eater trailer.

Jubeh

I actually just got done playing the peace walker demo and it's brilliant. They streamlined everything but it still feels like metal gear.

Haven't got to play co-op yet though.

Vegan

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

My biggest problems with Twin Snakes are:

1. The models. Especially the eyes on Snake and Meryl. Creepy and not well done.

2. No VR Missions. Being a remake a few years after the fact you'd think it would have at the very least all the VR missions on the original disks, and possibly those from the Integral release/VR Missions. But nooo, you get nothing.

3. No point to getting the dog tags. At all. Getting dog tags is fun, but there's no incentive at all.

Those tiny little Gamecube discs caused trouble for quite a few games.

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

They fix all the goofy accents in Twin Snakes, another plus in its favor.

Of course a strike against it is that the rest of the cast besides the snakes and ocelot sound a bit wooden in their deliveries. Something about being unhappy about a pay increase or something.

From what I've heard, David Hayter paid for a lot of their salaries for the remake out of his own pocket. I think the issue was how much more money he was getting than them.

AbsoluteZero

Well, got to Chapter 2 in MGS4. I'm liking it so far but... still wrestling with the controls. That's just MGS in general, I think. The only thing I don't like about MGS4 so far is that every area seems to be swarming with enemies, seems like there's no way to 'secure' any area in the game... as in hunt down and eliminate every enemy in the vicinity. That's the way I enjoy playing these games and just doesn't seem viable anymore. Hrmph.

manwiththemachinegun

You should never be in a rush to get through an area. You're one man in the middle of a battlefield. If you want to fight, you need to pick and choose the places where it would be the most benefit, i.e., shooting through places without heavy guards and major backup like tanks and helicopters.

You can still kill quite a few enemies with silenced and heavy weapons, but you need to hit them from concealed locations and be very accurate with your gunfire.

GR_Zombie

You know what's always bugged me? That the protagonist's footsteps are always so loud when they move quickly. It doesn't really affect the gameplay, but you'd think that a sneaking suit would include some kind of super quiet boots or something.

TrippyJing

Man, I was messing up my throws and chokeholds something fierce in MGS4. I'd keep running into them and alerting them, or I end up punching past them. This was due to the fact that I didn't really know what the range was on Snake's melee attacks. It took some experimentation with some guards to figure out that the game is actually quite forgiving with your distancing.

I am also

patting down every FROG I can find.

manwiththemachinegun

TrippyJing wrote: »

Man, I messing up my throws and chokeholds something fierce in MGS4. I'd keep running into them and alerting them, or I end up punching past them. This was due to the fact that I didn't really know what the range was on Snake's melee attacks. It took some experimentation with some guards to figure out that the game is actually quite forgiving with your distancing.

I am also

patting down every FROG I can find.

Have you touched their secret garden yet? Because that is priceless.

Jubeh

Okay just beat mgs2 again. The ending is so surreal.

After you beat solidus, raiden is just standing in the street with a fucking samurai sword on his back while people walk by and don't notice him. And then snake just suddenly appears behind him.

After that, Rose appears who was just totally being a bitch to you before. Or was that the AI? I don't get it.

Bursar

Jubeh wrote: »

Okay just beat mgs2 again. The ending is so surreal.

After you beat solidus, raiden is just standing in the street with a fucking samurai sword on his back while people walk by and don't notice him. And then snake just suddenly appears behind him.

After that, Rose appears who was just totally being a bitch to you before. Or was that the AI? I don't get it.

Endgame MGS2 stuff:

What, the cardboard cutout of Vamp standing behind a car wasn't weird enough? The Rose Jack meets on the street is the Rose that was with him up to the point where he got captured. From the naked scenes on, everything you see on the Codec is the AI fucking with you(i.e., the player)/Jack/both simultaneously.

Basically, Jack realizes that he's been a tool of the government that's trying to recreate another Solid Snake, and rejects it. At the end, he takes off his dog tags (with the name YOU gave him, remember) and throws them away, rejecting the notion that YOU wanted him to be another Solid Snake. Without being as overt as turning to the screen and giving you the finger, he's pretty much saying "I'm not a character, I'm my own person. Fuck this, I'm outta here."

How he went from there to... whatever he was in MGS4, I can't say.

Jam Warrior

MGS1 Early Game:

Willeth wrote: »

I'm also wondering what happens in the cells if I don't pick up the SOCOM from the truck - am I just completely unarmed or do I magically draw a gun like I would in the cutscene?

I wondered this as well. Anyone got the answer?

Dunxco

Jam Warrior wrote: »

MGS1 Early Game:

Willeth wrote: »

I'm also wondering what happens in the cells if I don't pick up the SOCOM from the truck - am I just completely unarmed or do I magically draw a gun like I would in the cutscene?

I wondered this as well. Anyone got the answer?

Meryl just gives you a SOCOM when the guards start running in.

I originally wrote "Meryl just gives you one" but that'd be awkward in front of Sasaki and all those guards.

Willeth

See, that's even weirder. Because Snake has it in the cutscene.

Is there a different cutscene if you don't have it?

Dunxco

Willeth wrote: »

See, that's even weirder. Because Snake has it in the cutscene.

Is there a different cutscene if you don't have it?

Someone with the game should actually try it out, I'm working off of my memory of a game I last owned in 2002. Twin Snakes completely works around the issue by giving you the Tranq gun at the start, but Meryl will still give you the gun in the cutscene if you don't have a SOCOM.

UncleSporky

Dunxco wrote: »

Willeth wrote: »

See, that's even weirder. Because Snake has it in the cutscene.

Is there a different cutscene if you don't have it?

Someone with the game should actually try it out, I'm working off of my memory of a game I last owned in 2002. Twin Snakes completely works around the issue by giving you the Tranq gun at the start, but Meryl will still give you the gun in the cutscene if you don't have a SOCOM.

I specifically went and tried this back in the day. It doesn't show any gun if you didn't find the SOCOM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYVb58LT4YI&feature=PlayList&p=4D532554EEBE5735&index=4

Dunxco

UncleSporky wrote: »

Dunxco wrote: »

Willeth wrote: »

See, that's even weirder. Because Snake has it in the cutscene.

Is there a different cutscene if you don't have it?

Someone with the game should actually try it out, I'm working off of my memory of a game I last owned in 2002. Twin Snakes completely works around the issue by giving you the Tranq gun at the start, but Meryl will still give you the gun in the cutscene if you don't have a SOCOM.

I specifically went and tried this back in the day. It doesn't show any gun if you didn't find the SOCOM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYVb58LT4YI&feature=PlayList&p=4D532554EEBE5735&index=4

Huh. You know, I've only gotten to the Meryl bit once without the SOCOM. Even if you have a tranq gun I still picked it up for the sake of completion. Logic (yes, something alien to Kojima and the series I know) would dictate he'd just pull out a tranq gun in that situation. Then again... Well, logic, Kojima, the series, yeah.

That scene is also a lot more engaging without it being two people standing still with guns pointed at them, bitching like school children.