Streaming Webcam

Quaz and Wally

Hello guys,

So, let's say I have a limited budget, but would like to set up a real-time webcam so that people around the world can look at my adorable box of kittens. Let's also say I have webspace that I would like to set this up in, and would like it to be of good enough quality to be deemed "professional" or at least "official" looking. This leaves me with some questions for you guys, since I am not entirely experienced with many of these technologies.

1. What should I look for in a camera to set up such streaming video?
2. How does one get this live feed from the camera to the web? Does anybody have any recommended software?
3. Anything else I should consider?

Thank you in advanced. I'm trying to set up something for a non-profit I volunteer for. I've even got some old laptops/computer parts I could use if I need to set up a dedicated server for the service.

xzzy

You might be able to do it with this:

http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWS/WINDOWSMEDIA/FORPROS/ENCODER/DEFAULT.MSPX

And any old USB camera.

The hard part is getting it to your website.. WME assumes you have a windows server to send the stream to, but this is rarely the case for a web server.

Quaz and Wally

xzzy wrote: »

You might be able to do it with this:

http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWS/WINDOWSMEDIA/FORPROS/ENCODER/DEFAULT.MSPX

And any old USB camera.

The hard part is getting it to your website.. WME assumes you have a windows server to send the stream to, but this is rarely the case for a web server.

Yeah, it would probably help if I understood how their site was hosted. I'll try to figure that out but I'm betting they've bought some webspace, and I doubt it's on a windows server.

Sarksus

I don't know anything about what webcam you ought to use but I can recommend software. When streaming video from my computer to the Internet I used Adobe's Flash Media Encoder. It can be paired with a site like livestream.com whose video can be embedded in your website. I was pretty satisfied with both FME and Livestream. Livestream gives you a lot of control over how your webcast is presented. It's also a lot simpler than setting up your own thing with servers and what not.

DekuStick

I hope you get this going. I remember the Shiba Inu Puppy Cam and it was far too distractingly cute.

Quaz and Wally

Sarksus wrote: »

I don't know anything about what webcam you ought to use but I can recommend software. When streaming video from my computer to the Internet I used Adobe's Flash Media Encoder. It can be paired with a site like livestream.com whose video can be embedded in your website. I was pretty satisfied with both FME and Livestream. Livestream gives you a lot of control over how your webcast is presented. It's also a lot simpler than setting up your own thing with servers and what not.

Oh, this sounds really promising. I'll have to try it. If I can really just use any camera, I'll probably just look around for something affordable and easy to setup and forget.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with this camera feed being dependent on another site. Do they have ads or weird messages that I should be concerned about? I'm setting this up for an organization, and I wouldn't want to embarrass them or myself. I might feel more comfortable going through the complicated process of setting up a dedicated server.

MKR

Self-hosted webcam servers are an old and poor way of doing it for most uses.

http://www.ustream.tv/

Quaz and Wally

I was looking at ustream too.

I think what I'll do is try setting up a live stream of my rabbits for a few days on each service, and see which one I like.

xzzy

If you don't like using a 3rd party service and are otherwise unable to get any kind of streaming going, the old school method is to have a program taking still images from your webcam, then use a script to ftp the still images to your website. You lose out on the whole "real time" thing, but it is trivial to set up. It's how they did it when when the internet was raw and untamed.

Quaz and Wally

xzzy wrote: »

If you don't like using a 3rd party service and are otherwise unable to get any kind of streaming going, the old school method is to have a program taking still images from your webcam, then use a script to ftp the still images to your website. You lose out on the whole "real time" thing, but it is trivial to set up. It's how they did it when when the internet was raw and untamed.

Yeah, I was actually considering that, but real time would be better. Gonna fiddle with this tonight hopefully. Get some results.

Quaz and Wally

Okay, an update on this. I tried testing out some stuff on my laptop cam, and I noticed livestream had ads, so I went with ustream. I haven't noticed any ads with them yet, but who knows, I know they put a water mark on there. But it was really easy. I was kind of surprised.

I also found a program that was sort of what I was originally looking for, WebcamXP. It turns your computer into a little camera streaming server. It also puts a watermark on the stream, but I rather pay a one time price for software, then regularly and depend on another site for service. But I'm still not 100% sure, I want it to look professional still.

In terms of connection stuff, is having a dynamic ip going to be a problem? What about upload speeds? I'm not certain what the place has, but I doubt it's anything more than a cable line. WebcamXP seemed to be uploading at about 100 to 200 kb a second when it was just me connected.

Either way, it looks like I'm going to need a simple computer just to have the webcam connected to, that can be connected to the internet, something that can run all the time but doesn't need a lot of power.

Thoughts?

bowen

What kind of webcam do you have? You might be able to buy micro-pc components and throw together a micro pc which should be really low on power consumption.

bowen

http://www.mini-itx.com/

Check it out and find something to fit your needs. Seems like the perfect application for a mini board.

Quaz and Wally

bowen wrote: »

What kind of webcam do you have? You might be able to buy micro-pc components and throw together a micro pc which should be really low on power consumption.

We haven't gotten a webcam yet for actual use. A micro pc you say?

We're pretty much looking to spend as little as possible. For the computer, I was just going to let them use an old spare I had or something.

xzzy

Quaz and Wally wrote: »

In terms of connection stuff, is having a dynamic ip going to be a problem? What about upload speeds? I'm not certain what the place has, but I doubt it's anything more than a cable line. WebcamXP seemed to be uploading at about 100 to 200 kb a second when it was just me connected.

If the computer sending the stream has a dynamic IP, it shouldn't be a problem. You're just sending data, worst case you'd have to have script that restarts the stream when the internet connection is interrupted.

As for the data rate, it depends on the ISP. Some cap at 128 KB/s, others go much higher. For something like this, I'd suggest limiting the stream to 25% of available bandwidth. If you're pushing 90% or whatever, people using that connection will notice when they try to download large files. The website will suffer too, as bandwidth gets choked off there will be glitches in the video feed.

bowen

Small, out of the way, low power, most you can put Windows on if you get a laptop or even an SD card with a large enough capacity. You're probably better picking up a laptop SATA and slapping it in there though.

Side note: My former place of employment actually deployed custom routers with mini boards in them. Pretty neat but ultimately a waste of time because they didn't want to work too much on the software side to make it awesome. Pretty good business to get into though considering you can slap linux onto these and basically make a cheap man's cisco ASA.

Quaz and Wally

xzzy wrote: »

Quaz and Wally wrote: »

In terms of connection stuff, is having a dynamic ip going to be a problem? What about upload speeds? I'm not certain what the place has, but I doubt it's anything more than a cable line. WebcamXP seemed to be uploading at about 100 to 200 kb a second when it was just me connected.

If the computer sending the stream has a dynamic IP, it shouldn't be a problem. You're just sending data, worst case you'd have to have script that restarts the stream when the internet connection is interrupted.

As for the data rate, it depends on the ISP. Some cap at 128 KB/s, others go much higher. For something like this, I'd suggest limiting the stream to 25% of available bandwidth. If you're pushing 90% or whatever, people using that connection will notice when they try to download large files. The website will suffer too, as bandwidth gets choked off there will be glitches in the video feed.

Ah, good idea. Pretty sure WebcamXP has something in there for limiting the upload rate.

Edit: I've never built a micro pc before, about how much would it cost to make a very very very basic one, pretty much for just streaming this video feed? I'm seeing some tiny motherboards with processors for like 50 bucks. If it's affordable enough, I might consider recommending this, but otherwise, it's a non-profit that's strapped for cash as it is, and I don't have a lot to donate myself either.

bowen

You might be better scrounging up a spare pc then if that's the case.

xzzy

Quaz and Wally wrote: »

Edit: I've never built a micro pc before, about how much would it cost to make a very very very basic one, pretty much for just streaming this video feed? I'm seeing some tiny motherboards with processors for like 50 bucks. If it's affordable enough, I might consider recommending this, but otherwise, it's a non-profit that's strapped for cash as it is, and I don't have a lot to donate myself either.

About $400!

http://www.fit-pc.com/web/

Or if you want to go really bonkers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug

For $100.

I make no guarantees that either of these are suitable for a streaming webcam. I imagine the fit-pc will work, but I've never tried it, so YMMV.

edit - the faq for the sheevaplug says it is in fact suitable for 'video surveillence'. So I guess it will work.

http://www.plugcomputer.org/index.php/us/faq

Of course, it won't run windows. So two steps forward, one step back.

Quaz and Wally

I think I'll go with using a spare computer. Although I will keep this in mind. Thank you!

bowen

I think you can build one for yourself cheaper than that. But yeah, spare computer in this case, definitely.

Quaz and Wally

Damn that SheevaPlug is a small computer. But then again it's only a little more powerful than a Nexus One I think.

Anywho, I got a spare smallish computer that we'll probably donate to them for this purpose, then all we need is a webcam. They want it to be good quality, but I also don't want to waste their money. Quality probably isn't going to matter much for a live streaming camera, is it?

bowen

The higher quality you get the more bandwidth you'll eat up. Any cheapo webcam should be fine for what you're probably going to do.

Quaz and Wally

Alright, just double checking. I'll probably get them something with my best buys gift card.

xzzy

Having good lighting will do more for webcam quality than the webcam itself.. webcams are notorious for looking like ass in low light. Any camera looks bad really, but webcams seem to do worse than most. Bitrate plays a factor too, but that's limited by your upload bandwidth.

Any $10-$50 webcam will be about the same in terms of image quality.

bbmartini

DekuStick wrote: »

I hope you get this going. I remember the Shiba Inu Puppy Cam and it was far too distractingly cute.

http://www.ustream.tv/SFShiba

there was a new litter a few weeks ago

Quaz and Wally

Guys? Do you know if it's possible to embed our stream on ustream onto our website in such a way that people have to come to our website to watch the stream? So they can't just go to ustream to watch it? I'm not too familiar with it. I think to do this we'd have to host the stream ourselves.