Not keeping your eyes on the road is the most dangerous part of a cellphone conversation, or driving with one hand or "hunched" so tthat the phone is pressed between your ear or shoulder.
Bluetooth headsets fix half of the problem here... mappable hardware buttons for shit like call waiting/merge call would fix the rest.
Well, all I can do is tell you that many of the studies on cellphone use in cars show that headsets reduce very little of the issue. Talking on a phone, or with people in the car, is shown to be the biggest problem.
I'm not, I'm counting this against people who do this regardless of what phone they use. You shouldn't take your eyes off the fucking road, that's my point.
Yes, you shouldn't. But then you shouldn't speed either. I almost never use my car in phone, but I certainly use the radio, and you can't do that with 100% attention to driving. On the occasions that I do use the phone, I'm holding it up level with the steering wheel so that at the very least I've got the road in my field of vision, and people can certainly use their best judgement about when to mess with a phone, like not on a busy interstate.
It's cool to see that asking questions, addressing concerns, and being skeptical are not qualities people look for in an internet forum, especially from someone who has used PDAs and Smartphones for years compared tot he RAZR and iPod heavy forum here.
Never once did I say the product sucks. In fact, it looks like a fine piece of kit. but there are problems I see, and am curious about if there are solutions to them. Telling me that "It's Apple so it will be good" frankly isn't good enough, as they are stepping into territory they are not familiar with.
I've also been using touch screens for years (I'm on a slate right now). The problem with using most touch screens seems to be the assumption that the user will be using the stylus rather than their finger so by just getting rid of that makes a lot of sense and will make one handed use easier. I use my windows mobile device one handed and it's not too bad.
Not keeping your eyes on the road is the most dangerous part of a cellphone conversation, or driving with one hand or "hunched" so tthat the phone is pressed between your ear or shoulder.
actually, it's to do with trying to sustain a conversation, and think about that, while also trying to coordinate motor functions
even headsets raise the risk level
essentially, you shouldn't be using your phone while driving anyway; complaining that you can't use your phone while driving is, as far as i'm concerned, ignoring this issue
But the fact that there isn't a tactile response for most of the buttons on the iPhone means that doing anything beyond picking up the phone will require you looking at the screen.
And I agree that this is where the problem lies, not simply answering. I didn't see anything on it, but do we know if the phone has voice activated dialing? I don't see this as a touch-screen issue.
Septus on
PSN: Kurahoshi1
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
WTH does that have to do with cellphone use? At least link to the twat who crossed four lanes and killed a pedestrian while trying to use her phone.
Nothing with cellphone use, and everything to do with eyes on the road.
1-2 seconds of not looking at the road is all it takes for some idiot in the other lane to be a retard (Like Toothless McFaceplant here), and get you in a world of pain, and paperwork, and nightmares.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'm not, I'm counting this against people who do this regardless of what phone they use. You shouldn't take your eyes off the fucking road, that's my point.
Yes, you shouldn't. But then you shouldn't speed either. I almost never use my car in phone, but I certainly use the radio, and you can't do that with 100% attention to driving. On the occasions that I do use the phone, I'm holding it up level with the steering wheel so that at the very least I've got the road in my field of vision, and people can certainly use their best judgement about when to mess with a phone, like not on a busy interstate.
I'd just do it whenever I'm at a red light. That's a perfect window of opportunity there, or at the very least slow down to around 20 MPH if it's that urgent.
victor_c26 on
It's been so long since I've posted here, I've removed my signature since most of what I had here were broken links. Shows over, you can carry on to the next post.
Well I must applaud you for what I assume to be driving habits that include never speeding , not talking to passengers(THE most dangerous thing about cell phones in cars), always keeping 4-6 seconds between the car in front of you etc. etc.
Look, we all take minor, acceptable risks.
Man, your definition of acceptable is different to mine. And yes, I do keep the stopping distance away from the car in front of me (which is 2 seconds).
The most dangerous thing about cell phone use is talking to people and taking your eyes off the road. The difference between a passenger and a person on a cell phone is that the passenger is able to see where you are on the road, and will stop talking at times when there is a lot more concentration needed, or understand when you stop talking to them because you are concentrating on doing something.
I'd place mobile phone blockers in every car if I could, people can't be trusted. The amount of drivers I saw in California who thought the mobile phone was a way of allivating the boredom of driving was just astonishing.
WTH does that have to do with cellphone use? At least link to the twat who crossed four lanes and killed a pedestrian while trying to use her phone.
Nothing with cellphone use, and everything to do with eyes on the road.
1-2 seconds of not looking at the road is all it takes for some idiot in the other lane to be a retard (Like Toothless McFaceplant here), and get you in a world of pain, and paperwork, and nightmares.
the risk is not with taking your eyes off the road
i have posted this point like three times now
Several studies have shown that motorists have a much higher risk of collisions and losing control of the vehicle while talking on the mobile telephone simultaneously with driving, even when using "hands-free" systems.
vision has very little to do with it - the dangerous bit is that you're using bits of your brain for communication and deciding what you want for tea that you should really be using to decide how to drive properly
Not keeping your eyes on the road is the most dangerous part of a cellphone conversation, or driving with one hand or "hunched" so tthat the phone is pressed between your ear or shoulder.
actually, it's to do with trying to sustain a conversation, and think about that, while also trying to coordinate motor functions
even headsets raise the risk level
essentially, you shouldn't be using your phone while driving anyway; complaining that you can't use your phone while driving is, as far as i'm concerned, ignoring this issue
It is a moot point, yes.
If I'm driving and getting a phone call, I'ma look down, see their name plastered on my sexy wide screen, then call them back later.
So, I'm totally not going to enter this argument, but I just got note of this iPhone.
Holy freaking crap.
That Ipod Interface, with the cover flipping is freakin awesome!
I thought the Ipod Video was just okay, and the Zune was just as good and all, but...
Match it with phone, PDA, and internet capabilities, damn...
I'm sold.
Only thing that I'm curious about is battery life.
Phone battery lives are generally really long, and mp3 is generally around 15 hours or so. I wonder how the Ipod music will affect the battery life, if at all? (I'm not hip to the whole cell phone playing music thing, my phone only calls people)
Does anybody know when this thing is slated for release? I hear the price is $500, right?
TheGreat2nd on
I'm Jacob Wilson. | facebook | thegreat2nd | [url="aim:goim?screenname=TheGreatSecond&message=Hello+from+the+Penny+Arcade+Forums!"]aim[/url]
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited January 2007
Bongi,
but people DO use their phones while driving; this isn;t changing.
So how do you best minimize the risks associated with it?
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It's cool to see that asking questions, addressing concerns, and being skeptical are not qualities people look for in an internet forum, especially from someone who has used PDAs and Smartphones for years compared tot he RAZR and iPod heavy forum here.
Never once did I say the product sucks. In fact, it looks like a fine piece of kit. but there are problems I see, and am curious about if there are solutions to them. Telling me that "It's Apple so it will be good" frankly isn't good enough, as they are stepping into territory they are not familiar with.
Leveling vague criticisms with minimal information and coming to conclusions about product a product that is a few hours old isn't really a quality that I admire.
Let's deconstruct your words:
You started with "Everything this phone does, aside from the interface and the iTunes integration, is already happening on the PPC6700 from Sprint/Cingular running WM5." - which we concluded wasn't accurate. (Multitouch, OS X, Coverflow etc etc etc)
"They are asking for too much, and they are CLAIMING too much." - Your conclusion - the market will tell (I think you're dead wrong on this one).
At one point you said "My phone disagrees with you. It's a touchscreen too." which does indeed smack of phone envy. I think you'd have a long way to go to convince people that the UI on your PPC6700 is as attractive as the UI of the iPhone.
"Five hours maximum battery life for actually using the device is going to be a deathknell for tons of people." Again, your conclusion - but your device shares this feature. Given the variety of iPod battery addons out there (the same size as your addon battery) I don't think this is an issue.
Next up was the "...the screen WILL become a greasy mess really damn quick." - More baseless criticism. I doubt there's a phone out there that's solved the problem of greasy motherfuckers - I'm not sure that one is up to Apple to solve.
You've spent ten pages trolling through this thread. We get the picture - you don't like the interface, you don't like the battery life, you don't like the touch screen, you want hardware buttons and you don't care about the software.
In short, much like Twisp and Catsby isn't for some - this isn't for you. Apple will not be getting your $599 US DOLLARS.
I'm sure they're heartbroken. Please enjoy your 6700.
Threepio on
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited January 2007
Battery: 15 hours with music, 5 with everything else.
So if you use it as a phone/web browser/movie player, it will be a short ride.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Yeah, not really feeling the iPhone. Touch screens on a phone seem really silly to me, and I don't want a lot of gadget convergence.
But apparently there's some kind of multi-touch display? Can somebody point me to a summary of that? I'm searching for a summary of the keynote and only finding old rumors pages.
Er, there's no 0 risk associated with taking your eyes off the road, it's just not the really big factor.
And there's a difference between, say, looking in the back seat for 1-2 seconds, and shifting your gaze slightly downward(if at all, like when lifting the phone up to road height).
Seriously, I consider it the same or less risk than using a radio.
Oh, and you need a lot more than 2 seconds behind the car in front of you on a highway
Edit: And anyways, aside from the price, which is a big problem but will eventually drop, I feel that for my use, the battery is fine. I think the real clincher is going to be the keypad. If I can't use two thumbs to type relatively quickly, it's a no-go.
I wonder if the keypad is any better when held horizontally? The vertically-oriented pad looked like it might have been forced to be too small because of width.
Septus on
PSN: Kurahoshi1
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Battery: 15 hours with music, 5 with everything else.
So if you use it as a phone/web browser/movie player, it will be a short ride.
The iPod video started with a 3 hour battery life for movie playing.
The UMPC has a 2 hour battery life.
Frankly, YOU need to do some god damn research.
Newsflash: People spend lots of time on the web / making phone calls with devices like this. Add in the really fucking awesome music capabilities that iPod brings to the table that people make use of, and this device will be running low.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I think the "phones while driving" problem is a non-issue for the iPhone. All phones are unsafe while driving, but people will use them anyway. This one really isn't much better or worse than any other.
The real issue is whether the input mechanism is good in general. If it's like other touchscreen-based phones, then I'd lean towards saying "no" (for the reasons I mentioned earlier), but who knows what Apple have managed to do? We will really have to wait and see.
Battery: 15 hours with music, 5 with everything else.
So if you use it as a phone/web browser/movie player, it will be a short ride.
The iPod video started with a 3 hour battery life for movie playing.
The UMPC has a 2 hour battery life.
Frankly, YOU need to do some god damn research.
Newsflash: People spend lots of time on the web / making phone calls with devices like this. Add in the really fucking awesome music capabilities that iPod brings to the table that people make use of, and this device will be running low.
NEWSFLASH: 5 hours in a day. 5 fucking hours. Pull five hours out of your day and DO ANYTHING for that duration. It's a hard task to accomplish.
You're not researching a god damn essay on this thing, you're checking the headlines (2 minutes), you're grabbing your email and writing a response (8 minutes), you're checking stocks (30 seconds), you're writing an SMS conversation (4 minutes).
You could repeat that process 20 times in one day and still have some battery left over. If you chatted on your phone all the way through the battery - that's 300 minutes. My plan includes 350 minutes A MONTH.
You can watch BRAVEHEART on this thing and have two hours left over for dicking around.
Frankly your point is moot. I, personally, have a job, wherein I do shit. I don't have five fucking hours a day to piss around trying to run my battery down. You apparently do. I think 5 hours of operation will be just peach for me, thank you very much.
Now that I think about it, I'm happy knowing I won't be able to afford getting an iPhone for another four years. They'll have any problems sorted out by then.
Also, some of your driving practices scare me. No, it's not OK to take your eyes off the road. Not for a half a second, not ever, not if you're "only going 30." God. Do your shit at a red light, or pull over, or don't do it at all.
but people DO use their phones while driving; this isn;t changing.
So how do you best minimize the risks associated with it?
You make the touchscreen button nice and big and bold so that you can press it very easily, or you put a button on the headset.
Since the risk isn't associated, generally, with not looking at the road for two seconds while you use your phone, you can't really assert that it's more dangerous. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if there was no difference, or if the feeling around thing was more dangerous, because of the mysterious intricacies of the human brain.
Either way, two major issues present themselves:
1) Neither you nor I (I assume) have done studies into the dangers associated with mobile phone use while driving, and can accurately assess the risks associated with the iphone while driving; I can only show that the main danger is with losing mental concentration on the act of driving.
2) Neither you nor I (i assume) have used the iPhone yet, and don't know if it has or what the functions are for using the phone easily while driving.
So how about rather than pose a hypothetical scenario about car safety to try and devalue the product, you simply state that you're happy with what you've got and don't really want the iPhone? That's essentially what you're saying.
I might actually consider Apple TV after a price drop. Being able to stream HD movies/TV to my HDTV without having to pay a ton of money per month for HD cable channels would be nice.
As for the IPhone...nah. All I want is the widescreen Ipod capabilities, and thats certainly not worth anywhere near $600 to me. Half that, maybe.
BiggNife on
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited January 2007
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But at athat, i am bowing out. Not because I have changed my tune (it looks like a great product, but there are obvious questions that come up on announcements like this), but rather that i cannot ask these questions without a great deal of hostility here. Folks really seem to just want this to be a Mac fan thread, as opposed to a curious consumer thread, so I'll give you that.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Battery: 15 hours with music, 5 with everything else.
So if you use it as a phone/web browser/movie player, it will be a short ride.
=/
That might defeat the purpose of a multitasking phone, especially if the phone doesn't survive being turned on for the duration of the day. It'll probably make it, considering I don't listen to music 15 hours a day, but it will drain the battery considerably.
Compared to a phone which would have a much longer battery life, idling.
Guess I'll have to wait and see how much battery life the iPhone can get just idling without using any of it's uber features.
TheGreat2nd on
I'm Jacob Wilson. | facebook | thegreat2nd | [url="aim:goim?screenname=TheGreatSecond&message=Hello+from+the+Penny+Arcade+Forums!"]aim[/url]
Also, some of your driving practices scare me. No, it's not OK to take your eyes off the road. Not for a half a second, not ever, not if you're "only going 30." God. Do your shit at a red light, or pull over, or don't do it at all.
Nonsense. I take my eyes off the road all of the time.
I check my rearview mirror. I check my wing mirrors. I check my blind spots. I glance at the passenger next to me. I change the radio dial.
If I'm not situationally aware to a degree sufficient to accomplish these tasks I should be allowed to have a license. Keeping your eyes bolt dead ahead is more dangerous than knowing what the hell is going on around you.
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But at athat, i am bowing out. Not because I have changed my tune (it looks like a great product, but there are obvious questions that come up on announcements like this), but rather that i cannot ask these questions without a great deal of hostility here. Folks really seem to just want this to be a Mac fan thread, as opposed to a curious consumer thread, so I'll give you that.
Two points: Sitting down at work? Plug it in.
Secondly: Good night and good luck. You might want to remember that you were the one who traipsed in here trying to sell us on your phone. Thanks for the chat, enjoy your night.
Also, some of your driving practices scare me. No, it's not OK to take your eyes off the road. Not for a half a second, not ever, not if you're "only going 30." God. Do your shit at a red light, or pull over, or don't do it at all.
Nonsense. I take my eyes off the road all of the time.
I check my rearview mirror. I check my wing mirrors. I check my blind spots. I glance at the passenger next to me. I change the radio dial.
If I'm not situationally aware to a degree sufficient to accomplish these tasks I should be allowed to have a license. Keeping your eyes bolt dead ahead is more dangerous than knowing what the hell is going on around yo.
Uh, you're still keeping your eyes on the road when you check your mirrors and blind spots. And you should be able to hit your pre-sets without looking off the road. If you have to seriously look down to fiddle with your phone while you're going 50, there's a problem.
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
fireside on
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
Just to answer this...
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
Because arbitrarily fucking with the number helps his "point"
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
Because arbitrarily fucking with the number helps his "point"
5 hours, I could probably just about handle. But then again, my first mini ran it's batter down from 18 hours to just over 10 in a year.
Also, some of your driving practices scare me. No, it's not OK to take your eyes off the road. Not for a half a second, not ever, not if you're "only going 30." God. Do your shit at a red light, or pull over, or don't do it at all.
Nonsense. I take my eyes off the road all of the time.
I check my rearview mirror. I check my wing mirrors. I check my blind spots. I glance at the passenger next to me. I change the radio dial.
If I'm not situationally aware to a degree sufficient to accomplish these tasks I should be allowed to have a license. Keeping your eyes bolt dead ahead is more dangerous than knowing what the hell is going on around yo.
Uh, you're still keeping your eyes on the road when you check your mirrors and blind spots. And you should be able to hit your pre-sets without looking off the road. If you have to seriously look down to fiddle with your phone while you're going 50, there's a problem.
Well, considering (knock on wood) that I've been driving for ten years and I've never been in an accident I would disagree with you. If you're following someone so closely that you need a one second reaction time to alter the course of events for safety you need to back the hell off.
Three car lengths at speed, one car length in traffic. Someone cuts you off? No biggie. Chill, enjoy the ride and dig on the tunes. I have my iPod mounted in my car at radio level. Hitting the controls is simple and takes literally less than a second. The iPhone will have the same place of honour - only this time, should I need to hit a button they will be brightly lit and coloured.
The iPhone, in this instance, is much like a GPS. Yes you can stare at it, but chances are you won't have to.
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
Just to answer this...
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.
Synd, I think you've overwhelming established that the iPhone isn't for you. We get it.
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.[/quote]
See, I wonder about their targeted user base. I don't know too many people who listen to mp3 players that much. I can see this as not being ideal for college students, but I would think most people who work full-time will have little enough time in which to use it at work, that they'll be ok.
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
Just to answer this...
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.
I thought you were gone?
You listen to 8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks a day eh? That's starting to explain the disparity between your social/conversational skills and, say, the rest of us.
Who listens to their iPod through their work day? I know quite a few who do.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But why did you divide 5 hours to 2 1/2?
Just to answer this...
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.
No I don't think its 15 hours of music and 5 hours of other stuff. YOu didn't say you were also listening to music while you weren't messing around with the other stuff. But yes, you would have 30 minutes of "PDA" time left, or 90 minutes of music time left.
Or you could wait a month for a battery accessory like you did with your current smartphone and all your problems will be solved. People who use the thing for the entire day (though why the hell you're checking your email on the phone is beyond me (especially for 30 minutes)) are always going to need more battery life than possible.
Also, some of your driving practices scare me. No, it's not OK to take your eyes off the road. Not for a half a second, not ever, not if you're "only going 30." God. Do your shit at a red light, or pull over, or don't do it at all.
Nonsense. I take my eyes off the road all of the time.
I check my rearview mirror. I check my wing mirrors. I check my blind spots. I glance at the passenger next to me. I change the radio dial.
If I'm not situationally aware to a degree sufficient to accomplish these tasks I should be allowed to have a license. Keeping your eyes bolt dead ahead is more dangerous than knowing what the hell is going on around yo.
Uh, you're still keeping your eyes on the road when you check your mirrors and blind spots. And you should be able to hit your pre-sets without looking off the road. If you have to seriously look down to fiddle with your phone while you're going 50, there's a problem.
Well, considering (knock on wood) that I've been driving for ten years and I've never been in an accident I would disagree with you. If you're following someone so closely that you need a one second reaction time to alter the course of events for safety you need to back the hell off.
Three car lengths at speed, one car length in traffic. Someone cuts you off? No biggie. Chill, enjoy the ride and dig on the tunes. I have my iPod mounted in my car at radio level. Hitting the controls is simple and takes literally less than a second. The iPhone will have the same place of honour - only this time, should I need to hit a button they will be brightly lit and coloured.
The iPhone, in this instance, is much like a GPS. Yes you can stare at it, but chances are you won't have to.
I'm not saying the iPhone is going to be a problem while driving. I'm saying the people who argue that's it's OK because, hey, I'm only going to be looking at it for two seconds and I take my eyes off the road for two seconds all the time scare me.
You listen to 8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks a day eh? That's starting to explain the disparity between your social/conversational skills and, say, the rest of us.
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Well, all I can do is tell you that many of the studies on cellphone use in cars show that headsets reduce very little of the issue. Talking on a phone, or with people in the car, is shown to be the biggest problem.
Yes, you shouldn't. But then you shouldn't speed either. I almost never use my car in phone, but I certainly use the radio, and you can't do that with 100% attention to driving. On the occasions that I do use the phone, I'm holding it up level with the steering wheel so that at the very least I've got the road in my field of vision, and people can certainly use their best judgement about when to mess with a phone, like not on a busy interstate.
I've also been using touch screens for years (I'm on a slate right now). The problem with using most touch screens seems to be the assumption that the user will be using the stylus rather than their finger so by just getting rid of that makes a lot of sense and will make one handed use easier. I use my windows mobile device one handed and it's not too bad.
even headsets raise the risk level
essentially, you shouldn't be using your phone while driving anyway; complaining that you can't use your phone while driving is, as far as i'm concerned, ignoring this issue
And I agree that this is where the problem lies, not simply answering. I didn't see anything on it, but do we know if the phone has voice activated dialing? I don't see this as a touch-screen issue.
1-2 seconds of not looking at the road is all it takes for some idiot in the other lane to be a retard (Like Toothless McFaceplant here), and get you in a world of pain, and paperwork, and nightmares.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'd just do it whenever I'm at a red light. That's a perfect window of opportunity there, or at the very least slow down to around 20 MPH if it's that urgent.
Man, your definition of acceptable is different to mine. And yes, I do keep the stopping distance away from the car in front of me (which is 2 seconds).
The most dangerous thing about cell phone use is talking to people and taking your eyes off the road. The difference between a passenger and a person on a cell phone is that the passenger is able to see where you are on the road, and will stop talking at times when there is a lot more concentration needed, or understand when you stop talking to them because you are concentrating on doing something.
I'd place mobile phone blockers in every car if I could, people can't be trusted. The amount of drivers I saw in California who thought the mobile phone was a way of allivating the boredom of driving was just astonishing.
i have posted this point like three times now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_and_driving_safety
vision has very little to do with it - the dangerous bit is that you're using bits of your brain for communication and deciding what you want for tea that you should really be using to decide how to drive properly
If I'm driving and getting a phone call, I'ma look down, see their name plastered on my sexy wide screen, then call them back later.
Holy freaking crap.
That Ipod Interface, with the cover flipping is freakin awesome!
I thought the Ipod Video was just okay, and the Zune was just as good and all, but...
Match it with phone, PDA, and internet capabilities, damn...
I'm sold.
Only thing that I'm curious about is battery life.
Phone battery lives are generally really long, and mp3 is generally around 15 hours or so. I wonder how the Ipod music will affect the battery life, if at all? (I'm not hip to the whole cell phone playing music thing, my phone only calls people)
Does anybody know when this thing is slated for release? I hear the price is $500, right?
I'm Jacob Wilson. | facebook | thegreat2nd | [url="aim:goim?screenname=TheGreatSecond&message=Hello+from+the+Penny+Arcade+Forums!"]aim[/url]
but people DO use their phones while driving; this isn;t changing.
So how do you best minimize the risks associated with it?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Leveling vague criticisms with minimal information and coming to conclusions about product a product that is a few hours old isn't really a quality that I admire.
Let's deconstruct your words:
You started with "Everything this phone does, aside from the interface and the iTunes integration, is already happening on the PPC6700 from Sprint/Cingular running WM5." - which we concluded wasn't accurate. (Multitouch, OS X, Coverflow etc etc etc)
"They are asking for too much, and they are CLAIMING too much." - Your conclusion - the market will tell (I think you're dead wrong on this one).
At one point you said "My phone disagrees with you. It's a touchscreen too." which does indeed smack of phone envy. I think you'd have a long way to go to convince people that the UI on your PPC6700 is as attractive as the UI of the iPhone.
"Five hours maximum battery life for actually using the device is going to be a deathknell for tons of people." Again, your conclusion - but your device shares this feature. Given the variety of iPod battery addons out there (the same size as your addon battery) I don't think this is an issue.
Next up was the "...the screen WILL become a greasy mess really damn quick." - More baseless criticism. I doubt there's a phone out there that's solved the problem of greasy motherfuckers - I'm not sure that one is up to Apple to solve.
You've spent ten pages trolling through this thread. We get the picture - you don't like the interface, you don't like the battery life, you don't like the touch screen, you want hardware buttons and you don't care about the software.
In short, much like Twisp and Catsby isn't for some - this isn't for you. Apple will not be getting your $599 US DOLLARS.
I'm sure they're heartbroken. Please enjoy your 6700.
So if you use it as a phone/web browser/movie player, it will be a short ride.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
But apparently there's some kind of multi-touch display? Can somebody point me to a summary of that? I'm searching for a summary of the keynote and only finding old rumors pages.
The iPod video started with a 3 hour battery life for movie playing.
The UMPC has a 2 hour battery life.
Frankly, YOU need to do some god damn research.
And there's a difference between, say, looking in the back seat for 1-2 seconds, and shifting your gaze slightly downward(if at all, like when lifting the phone up to road height).
Seriously, I consider it the same or less risk than using a radio.
Oh, and you need a lot more than 2 seconds behind the car in front of you on a highway
Edit: And anyways, aside from the price, which is a big problem but will eventually drop, I feel that for my use, the battery is fine. I think the real clincher is going to be the keypad. If I can't use two thumbs to type relatively quickly, it's a no-go.
I wonder if the keypad is any better when held horizontally? The vertically-oriented pad looked like it might have been forced to be too small because of width.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
The real issue is whether the input mechanism is good in general. If it's like other touchscreen-based phones, then I'd lean towards saying "no" (for the reasons I mentioned earlier), but who knows what Apple have managed to do? We will really have to wait and see.
NEWSFLASH: 5 hours in a day. 5 fucking hours. Pull five hours out of your day and DO ANYTHING for that duration. It's a hard task to accomplish.
You're not researching a god damn essay on this thing, you're checking the headlines (2 minutes), you're grabbing your email and writing a response (8 minutes), you're checking stocks (30 seconds), you're writing an SMS conversation (4 minutes).
You could repeat that process 20 times in one day and still have some battery left over. If you chatted on your phone all the way through the battery - that's 300 minutes. My plan includes 350 minutes A MONTH.
You can watch BRAVEHEART on this thing and have two hours left over for dicking around.
Frankly your point is moot. I, personally, have a job, wherein I do shit. I don't have five fucking hours a day to piss around trying to run my battery down. You apparently do. I think 5 hours of operation will be just peach for me, thank you very much.
Also, some of your driving practices scare me. No, it's not OK to take your eyes off the road. Not for a half a second, not ever, not if you're "only going 30." God. Do your shit at a red light, or pull over, or don't do it at all.
Since the risk isn't associated, generally, with not looking at the road for two seconds while you use your phone, you can't really assert that it's more dangerous. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if there was no difference, or if the feeling around thing was more dangerous, because of the mysterious intricacies of the human brain.
Either way, two major issues present themselves:
1) Neither you nor I (I assume) have done studies into the dangers associated with mobile phone use while driving, and can accurately assess the risks associated with the iphone while driving; I can only show that the main danger is with losing mental concentration on the act of driving.
2) Neither you nor I (i assume) have used the iPhone yet, and don't know if it has or what the functions are for using the phone easily while driving.
So how about rather than pose a hypothetical scenario about car safety to try and devalue the product, you simply state that you're happy with what you've got and don't really want the iPhone? That's essentially what you're saying.
As for the IPhone...nah. All I want is the widescreen Ipod capabilities, and thats certainly not worth anywhere near $600 to me. Half that, maybe.
Now, take the 5 and divide it down to 2 1/2... and thats only if you aren;t using coverflow, or looking at album art or any of that other stuff. Lets say you talk on the phone for an hour that day. 1 1/2. Lets say you do your email for 20-30 minutes total that day. 1 hour. Lets drop another 30 minutes or so during my lunch break where I am browsing the forums, and checking up on the news. I have 30 minutes of battery life to spare.
This is a common day for me. It's not a lot of wiggle room.
But at athat, i am bowing out. Not because I have changed my tune (it looks like a great product, but there are obvious questions that come up on announcements like this), but rather that i cannot ask these questions without a great deal of hostility here. Folks really seem to just want this to be a Mac fan thread, as opposed to a curious consumer thread, so I'll give you that.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
That might defeat the purpose of a multitasking phone, especially if the phone doesn't survive being turned on for the duration of the day. It'll probably make it, considering I don't listen to music 15 hours a day, but it will drain the battery considerably.
Compared to a phone which would have a much longer battery life, idling.
Guess I'll have to wait and see how much battery life the iPhone can get just idling without using any of it's uber features.
I'm Jacob Wilson. | facebook | thegreat2nd | [url="aim:goim?screenname=TheGreatSecond&message=Hello+from+the+Penny+Arcade+Forums!"]aim[/url]
I couldn't agree more. This device is a productivity tool - and I find its features adequate for my needs.
Nonsense. I take my eyes off the road all of the time.
I check my rearview mirror. I check my wing mirrors. I check my blind spots. I glance at the passenger next to me. I change the radio dial.
If I'm not situationally aware to a degree sufficient to accomplish these tasks I should be allowed to have a license. Keeping your eyes bolt dead ahead is more dangerous than knowing what the hell is going on around you.
Two points: Sitting down at work? Plug it in.
Secondly: Good night and good luck. You might want to remember that you were the one who traipsed in here trying to sell us on your phone. Thanks for the chat, enjoy your night.
Uh, you're still keeping your eyes on the road when you check your mirrors and blind spots. And you should be able to hit your pre-sets without looking off the road. If you have to seriously look down to fiddle with your phone while you're going 50, there's a problem.
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
5 hours, I could probably just about handle. But then again, my first mini ran it's batter down from 18 hours to just over 10 in a year.
Well, considering (knock on wood) that I've been driving for ten years and I've never been in an accident I would disagree with you. If you're following someone so closely that you need a one second reaction time to alter the course of events for safety you need to back the hell off.
Three car lengths at speed, one car length in traffic. Someone cuts you off? No biggie. Chill, enjoy the ride and dig on the tunes. I have my iPod mounted in my car at radio level. Hitting the controls is simple and takes literally less than a second. The iPhone will have the same place of honour - only this time, should I need to hit a button they will be brightly lit and coloured.
The iPhone, in this instance, is much like a GPS. Yes you can stare at it, but chances are you won't have to.
you don;t think its 15 hours of music AND 5 hours of other stuff, do you?
I use about 7-8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks through the day.[/quote]
See, I wonder about their targeted user base. I don't know too many people who listen to mp3 players that much. I can see this as not being ideal for college students, but I would think most people who work full-time will have little enough time in which to use it at work, that they'll be ok.
I thought you were gone?
You listen to 8 hours of music/podcasts/audiobooks a day eh? That's starting to explain the disparity between your social/conversational skills and, say, the rest of us.
Or you could wait a month for a battery accessory like you did with your current smartphone and all your problems will be solved. People who use the thing for the entire day (though why the hell you're checking your email on the phone is beyond me (especially for 30 minutes)) are always going to need more battery life than possible.
I'm not saying the iPhone is going to be a problem while driving. I'm saying the people who argue that's it's OK because, hey, I'm only going to be looking at it for two seconds and I take my eyes off the road for two seconds all the time scare me.