Remember that Macs gave you a special button just for using in copy and cut and paste combos that wasn't CTRL. I'm sure it had a name. I called it 'magic cloverleaf button.'
That's the command button, and it does a TON of shit. It's as useful (if not moreso) then all the winkey + button commands out there.
Spotlight? Cmd-space.
Close Current window? Cmd-W
Close App? Cmd-Q
App Switcher? Cmd-Tab, from which you can tap tab to cycle apps (like windows), and tap Q to quit them without leaving the app switcher.
Command is a fucking sexy button.
edit: Cameron gets it.
I have to ask, since I ask everyone in person who uses a Mac -- which finger do you use for the command key?
On Windows, everyone uses their pinky for Control, and primarily it really does get used for just copy & paste. On Macs, it seems that Command is almost always hit with the thumb, as if it were the spacebar (mostly because it's next to the spacebar), and as such it seems that Mac users end up using a lot more hotkeys. It's also the defacto modifier, as all native mac apps seem to use Command first and then add on other keys as necessary. On Windows, I can never keep alt & control straight. I know alt+f4 closes windows and ctrl+c/v is copy/paste, but is it control+t that opens a new tab in Chrome? Why does ctrl+t open a tab but alt+f4 close it?
Anyway, I don't think that Steve Jobs isn't a computer geek, I think he realized after NeXT that he doesn't like being a computer geek. I think he realized he just likes using computers. He doesn't want to write code -- he's a CEO of a huge company and would rather spend time doing, I don't know, CEO things, or non-work things.
For him, an iPad is probably perfect because he can sit around and browse shit without thinking about an operating system. For him, a lot of these devices prove to be "invisible," or that they make the software guts disappear. He doesn't think about what he can't do because he's thinking more about what he's going to do next.
I know there are other people out there like him, who don't want to code or plug shit into other shit. And they're the ones who own a Netbook and a Kindle and an iPhone and don't really see any overlap because they're using them differently. They'll probably be the first people who buy iPads based just on the marketing, because they're the ones who see it and say "yeah I want to use that, it lets me do computer things without using a computer."
I just don't think there's that many people who like to do "computer" things but don't like doing it on computers. Well, that's not Farmville.
Remember that Macs gave you a special button just for using in copy and cut and paste combos that wasn't CTRL. I'm sure it had a name. I called it 'magic cloverleaf button.'
That's the command button, and it does a TON of shit. It's as useful (if not moreso) then all the winkey + button commands out there.
Spotlight? Cmd-space.
Close Current window? Cmd-W
Close App? Cmd-Q
App Switcher? Cmd-Tab, from which you can tap tab to cycle apps (like windows), and tap Q to quit them without leaving the app switcher.
Command is a fucking sexy button.
edit: Cameron gets it.
Wait wait...
Is this serious?
Because, for each of those, I know there is an equivalent in linux. Is there not one in windows?
I have to ask, since I ask everyone in person who uses a Mac -- which finger do you use for the command key?
On Windows, everyone uses their pinky for Control, and primarily it really does get used for just copy & paste. On Macs, it seems that Command is almost always hit with the thumb, as if it were the spacebar (mostly because it's next to the spacebar), and as such it seems that Mac users end up using a lot more hotkeys. It's also the defacto modifier, as all native mac apps seem to use Command first and then add on other keys as necessary. On Windows, I can never keep alt & control straight. I know alt+f4 closes windows and ctrl+c/v is copy/paste, but is it control+t that opens a new tab in Chrome? Why does ctrl+t open a tab but alt+f4 close it?
Seriously!?! You two are truly serious? If you want to know why alt-f4 closes things, that is because alt-f4 historically closed things. This hasn't changed ever. You know what, though? So does ctrl-w. Crazy, I know. It is almost like you don't have to learn all new ways when they are introduced, and can continue using what you know.
I have to ask, since I ask everyone in person who uses a Mac -- which finger do you use for the command key?
On Windows, everyone uses their pinky for Control, and primarily it really does get used for just copy & paste. On Macs, it seems that Command is almost always hit with the thumb, as if it were the spacebar (mostly because it's next to the spacebar), and as such it seems that Mac users end up using a lot more hotkeys. It's also the defacto modifier, as all native mac apps seem to use Command first and then add on other keys as necessary. On Windows, I can never keep alt & control straight. I know alt+f4 closes windows and ctrl+c/v is copy/paste, but is it control+t that opens a new tab in Chrome? Why does ctrl+t open a tab but alt+f4 close it?
Seriously!?! You two are truly serious? If you want to know why alt-f4 closes things, that is because alt-f4 historically closed things. This hasn't changed ever. You know what, though? So does ctrl-w. Crazy, I know. It is almost like you don't have to learn all new ways when they are introduced, and can continue using what you know.
and ctrl+f4 will close an individual tab
it doesnt get simpler than that
adn the windows button does all sorts of awesome window arranging stuff in 7 now which has really helped rearranging workspaces that much snappier
speaking of keyboard shortcuts, as great as photoshop on a tablet with pressure sensitivity would be, i can't imagine divorcing the entire process from a keyboard. Most serious graphic designers I know could not live with just a stylus, the keyboard and shortcuts basically streamlines their workflow to a point where what would take them like an hour to do with a touch only interface would take them minutes to do with a stylus/mouse and keyboard combo.
Remember that Macs gave you a special button just for using in copy and cut and paste combos that wasn't CTRL. I'm sure it had a name. I called it 'magic cloverleaf button.'
That's the command button, and it does a TON of shit. It's as useful (if not moreso) then all the winkey + button commands out there.
Spotlight? Cmd-space.
Close Current window? Cmd-W
Close App? Cmd-Q
App Switcher? Cmd-Tab, from which you can tap tab to cycle apps (like windows), and tap Q to quit them without leaving the app switcher.
Command is a fucking sexy button.
edit: Cameron gets it.
Wait wait...
Is this serious?
Because, for each of those, I know there is an equivalent in linux. Is there not one in windows?
There are equivalents in both, but he's saying that on OS X, all of them are accessed via Command+Something
In Windows or Linux, it could be ctrl or alt or win/super, and the hotkeys are all over the board. For example, Ctrl+W might kill the open window (if the application has that hotkey set) but it's Alt+F4 to close the application. In OS X, it's always Cmd+Something, and since the cmd button is used with the thumb (like an extension of the spacebar), it makes for less convoluted hand motions when hotkeying. You're probably going to disagree if you don't use OS X, but it's something you get used to really quickly and miss more than you'd think when using other OS's.
Command is the de-facto "This plus something does something" modifier in OS X by UI design standards, just as Alt is typically the modifier key
Monoxide on
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited February 2010
Well, it stops data mining apps from hitting the app store, as well as malicious Programs with Trojans and whatnot.
Thy don't have a team spending days / weeks playtesting these games. The 100 buck developer license doesn't give them a staff big enough to nintendo "seal of approval" the 50k games on the market.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Well, it stops data mining apps from hitting the app store, as well as malicious Programs with Trojans and whatnot.
Thy don't have a team spending days / weeks playtesting these games. The 100 buck developer license doesn't give them a staff big enough to nintendo "seal of approval" the 50k games on the market.
Ironically, the Nintendo Seal of Quality's standards aren't actually that different from the App Store standards (other than the random "rejection for no reason" of the app store). The seal basically just meant that the game was officially licensed, had no obviously game-crashing bugs, and didn't have naughty bits - it was more of a marketing tactic than anything.
RE: Command Key question: I use my left thumb to hit the left key. Rarely use the right one.
And since switching to Mac 5 years ago I find I use keyboard shortcuts far more than I ever did on Windows. One thing I like is that the shortcuts are always the same across apps. IE "Cmd+," will always open preferences. I've found that isn't true on Windows, where every program seems to have its own set of shortcuts to learn.
Cameron_Talley on
Switch Friend Code: SW-4598-4278-8875
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
Now that I'm finally starting to understand the focus of this product I think it will sell pretty well.
Not to guys like you and i, but to the non forum plebs :P
Disagree. I think that, in the first month, it'll sell like gangbusters. They won't be able to keep em in the stores. But then! As people start to play with it, they'll realize something. They'll say, "Why can't I play Farmville? Why can't I go to Youtube, or CNN? Why do none of the videos work?"
Here's a little scenario for you. Lets say a internet company started offering a pay-per-view movie system. You give em money, and you get to watch TV and movies, all wonderful and delivered. Great, huh? I'd not use it, as I have Bittorrent and other methods, but if i wanted something quick and clean, I might.
Now, lets say that company then said, "Oh, by the way, we are blocking all Bittorrent downloads." What do you think the reaction would be? People would be screaming for blood! Yet this is exactly what Apple is doing, and I think people will realize this. They want you to give them money, so they block things that would let you use other methods. I think we'll see if this is true if Apple keeps the Kindle App on it's iPad.
BTW, intresting post on Gizmodo, heh, to sum up, "Apple is great, you whiners need to shut up or put up!"
Ghostly Clockwork on
FTC: honk.
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
it's more like, if you were wanting a gorilla really bad, and there were years of hype and speculation on how awesome the gorilla could be, then the exotic pet store announced that they would be selling black & white photocopies of a picture of a gorilla
Question for those who have the iPod Touch or iPhone, if you click a link in a twitter app or e-mail or wherever that would lead to youtube's website normally, does it automatically load the youtube app?
I ask, because that would be really annoying if it didn't, since you would have to somehow get the URL or video name and search in the app to see it.
Question for those who have the iPod Touch or iPhone, if you click a link in a twitter app or e-mail or wherever that would lead to youtube's website normally, does it automatically load the youtube app?
I ask, because that would be really annoying if it didn't, since you would have to somehow get the URL or video name and search in the app to see it.
It opens the video's page in Youtube Mobile, but when you click play on the video itself it opens in the Youtube app. At least, that's how Tweetie does it, I assume email/Safari/etc is the same.
I'm pretty sure Youtube already has an HTML5 version of their page done and working.
And CNN has a mobile site with support for quicktime enabled video, as does NBC.
What I do not understand is that people who clearly have specific reasons why they don't want to buy the device insist on pissing on it.
Like
I have no express need to buy a pet gorilla
but I am not here like "you know what, fuck gorillas, what the fuck was nature thinking, jesus"
it's because apple's marketing machine is too strong, and we are afraid that suddenly all of the stores are going to stop selling everything BUT gorillas, because those are what sell now, and soon after all the manufacturers are just going to be putting out orangutans and chimpanzees, and only other manner of apes, because they think that they have to be similar to the gorilla in order to sell
All I want is a fucking dog. But now I'm going to have to buy a gibbon, because that's the closest that anyone makes anymore.
the key piece here is that before apple released their gorilla, no one really wanted a gorilla. It's not that this is an existent niche that has been waiting to be filled, it is that apple is good of convincing people to buy things that they had not previously wanted.
the key piece here is that before apple released their gorilla, no one really wanted a gorilla. It's not that this is an existent niche that has been waiting to be filled, it is that apple is good of convincing people to buy things that they had not previously wanted.
Here's my spin:
Apple currently sells several types of greater and lesser primates. Gorillas that are strong and powerful, lemurs that are quick and agile, and now they're telling everyone that they're going to come out with a new primate that will revolutionize the animal kingdom forever.
And then they release: The Orangutan. It's not as strong as the gorilla, it's not as fast or discrete as the lemur, and its whole purpose is rather questionable.
Meanwhile, all the Apple Zoologists are going, "Jeez, they already own the proprietary material necessary to make a really good primate. Like a human. Is that too much to ask? Hell, I would have be satisfied with just a chimp. At least chimps can use tools and have advanced communications skills."
But then again, the Orangutan is going to be really cheap, and some people don't really care about what kind of monkey they're getting as long as it's a monkey.
But then again, the Orangutan is going to be really cheap, and some people don't really care about what kind of monkey they're getting as long as it's a monkey.
Then everyone engages in a fruitless 4 page silly goose argument over that fact that a monkey is not an ape and no matter how great the monkey theoretically is it cannot match the flexibility of a full blown ape.
But then again, the Orangutan is going to be really cheap, and some people don't really care about what kind of monkey they're getting as long as it's a monkey.
Then everyone engages in a fruitless 4 page silly goose argument over that fact that a monkey is not an ape and no matter how great the monkey theoretically is it cannot match the flexibility of a full blown ape.
There are equivalents in both, but he's saying that on OS X, all of them are accessed via Command+Something
In Windows or Linux, it could be ctrl or alt or win/super, and the hotkeys are all over the board. For example, Ctrl+W might kill the open window (if the application has that hotkey set) but it's Alt+F4 to close the application. In OS X, it's always Cmd+Something, and since the cmd button is used with the thumb (like an extension of the spacebar), it makes for less convoluted hand motions when hotkeying. You're probably going to disagree if you don't use OS X, but it's something you get used to really quickly and miss more than you'd think when using other OS's.
Command is the de-facto "This plus something does something" modifier in OS X by UI design standards, just as Alt is typically the modifier key
This is borderline silly goose territory. My main editor of choice is vim. I know more bloody keyboard shortcuts than I can even recount. Majority of which are at or near the home row. I could argue for days that this is so convenient it is frightening. I do not argue that it is somehow superior.
Ironically, the Nintendo Seal of Quality's standards aren't actually that different from the App Store standards (other than the random "rejection for no reason" of the app store). The seal basically just meant that the game was officially licensed, had no obviously game-crashing bugs, and didn't have naughty bits - it was more of a marketing tactic than anything.
The Seal of Quality used to be a way to force draconian standards on their system. In order to get it, you had to sell the rights of the game to nintendo and buy back the cartridges. So, no matter how well you did on your profit, Nintendo had their money.
the key piece here is that before apple released their gorilla, no one really wanted a gorilla. It's not that this is an existent niche that has been waiting to be filled, it is that apple is good of convincing people to buy things that they had not previously wanted.
Here's my spin:
Apple currently sells several types of greater and lesser primates. Gorillas that are strong and powerful, lemurs that are quick and agile, and now they're telling everyone that they're going to come out with a new primate that will revolutionize the animal kingdom forever.
And then they release: The Orangutan. It's not as strong as the gorilla, it's not as fast or discrete as the lemur, and its whole purpose is rather questionable.
Meanwhile, all the Apple Zoologists are going, "Jeez, they already own the proprietary material necessary to make a really good primate. Like a human. Is that too much to ask? Hell, I would have be satisfied with just a chimp. At least chimps can use tools and have advanced communications skills."
But then again, the Orangutan is going to be really cheap, and some people don't really care about what kind of monkey they're getting as long as it's a monkey.
I'm pretty sure Youtube already has an HTML5 version of their page done and working.
Working might be a strong term for it, it's rather unpleasant to use and half the time it ends up falling back to flash anyway.
It's also not the full Youtube selection. Only a portion of the videos available on the website are available on the iPhone. My favorite bass video isn't available on the iPhone, for example:
I know it's not the only one, too. What's even more annoying is that there's nothing on the iPhone that says anything about it. If you search, it doesn't show up, because it only displays videos that are iPhone compatible. You have to go to the youtube website, search, and then when you try to play the video it hops into the Youtube App which yells at you.
There are equivalents in both, but he's saying that on OS X, all of them are accessed via Command+Something
In Windows or Linux, it could be ctrl or alt or win/super, and the hotkeys are all over the board. For example, Ctrl+W might kill the open window (if the application has that hotkey set) but it's Alt+F4 to close the application. In OS X, it's always Cmd+Something, and since the cmd button is used with the thumb (like an extension of the spacebar), it makes for less convoluted hand motions when hotkeying. You're probably going to disagree if you don't use OS X, but it's something you get used to really quickly and miss more than you'd think when using other OS's.
Command is the de-facto "This plus something does something" modifier in OS X by UI design standards, just as Alt is typically the modifier key
This is borderline silly goose territory. My main editor of choice is vim. I know more bloody keyboard shortcuts than I can even recount. Majority of which are at or near the home row. I could argue for days that this is so convenient it is frightening. I do not argue that it is somehow superior.
I meant you begin to miss the fact that most common shortcuts are used from the command key, not shortcuts themselves. It's just more intuitive and consistent across applications. And as much as I love vim and its keyboard shortcuts, there is no way anyone would use the word "intuitive" when describing it.
RE: Command Key question: I use my left thumb to hit the left key. Rarely use the right one.
And since switching to Mac 5 years ago I find I use keyboard shortcuts far more than I ever did on Windows. One thing I like is that the shortcuts are always the same across apps. IE "Cmd+," will always open preferences. I've found that isn't true on Windows, where every program seems to have its own set of shortcuts to learn.
Microsoft has similar UX guidelines for shortcut keys (it's even helpful as a dev, because you know that MS or some other program probably isn't going to run over your shortcut). They just get ignored sometimes. Sometimes for good reasons. Sometimes because someone was lazy. Most times probably because someone was on a crazy ass time table to get something done and missed something. ("You can rewrite Photoshop alone in a week, right? It's all already written. Just use the C# image classes. It'll be easy!") One of the many consequences Windows of having 20x more users and developers.
RE: Command Key question: I use my left thumb to hit the left key. Rarely use the right one.
And since switching to Mac 5 years ago I find I use keyboard shortcuts far more than I ever did on Windows. One thing I like is that the shortcuts are always the same across apps. IE "Cmd+," will always open preferences. I've found that isn't true on Windows, where every program seems to have its own set of shortcuts to learn.
Microsoft has similar UX guidelines for shortcut keys (it's even helpful as a dev, because you know that MS or some other program probably isn't going to run over your shortcut). They just get ignored sometimes. Sometimes for good reasons. Sometimes because someone was lazy. Most times probably because someone was on a crazy ass time table to get something done and missed something. ("You can rewrite Photoshop alone in a week, right? It's all already written. Just use the C# image classes. It'll be easy!") One of the many consequences Windows of having 20x more users and developers.
Right. The other problem is Windows developers have been using basically the same idioms and UI guidelines forever, except they change incrementally per OS. Mac devs were forced to relearn everything with Cocoa/OS X, and it's stuck better since then.
There are equivalents in both, but he's saying that on OS X, all of them are accessed via Command+Something
In Windows or Linux, it could be ctrl or alt or win/super, and the hotkeys are all over the board. For example, Ctrl+W might kill the open window (if the application has that hotkey set) but it's Alt+F4 to close the application. In OS X, it's always Cmd+Something, and since the cmd button is used with the thumb (like an extension of the spacebar), it makes for less convoluted hand motions when hotkeying. You're probably going to disagree if you don't use OS X, but it's something you get used to really quickly and miss more than you'd think when using other OS's.
Command is the de-facto "This plus something does something" modifier in OS X by UI design standards, just as Alt is typically the modifier key
This is borderline silly goose territory. My main editor of choice is vim. I know more bloody keyboard shortcuts than I can even recount. Majority of which are at or near the home row. I could argue for days that this is so convenient it is frightening. I do not argue that it is somehow superior.
I meant you begin to miss the fact that most common shortcuts are used from the command key, not shortcuts themselves. It's just more intuitive and consistent across applications. And as much as I love vim and its keyboard shortcuts, there is no way anyone would use the word "intuitive" when describing it.
There is nothing intuitive about any keyboard shortcut. Period. There are quite a few that are familiar. To try and argue that command is somehow more intuitive is another silly goose claim.
If you want to argue that it is easier to type them. . . I'm not sure what that even means. I have never really had trouble with any of the key combos.
taeric on
0
mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
the key piece here is that before apple released their gorilla, no one really wanted a gorilla. It's not that this is an existent niche that has been waiting to be filled, it is that apple is good of convincing people to buy things that they had not previously wanted.
I disagree on this point; Their two signature handheld products, the iPod and iPhone really DID fulfill a want that wasn't being fulfilled by others in an accessible and stadardized way. I prefer my Creative Zen but I don't think most people would, not because of marketing, but because it doesn't integrate as easily with the means of acquiring music, has a larger size, etc etc. The iPhone did deliver on what it said it would, and did it better than a lot of other products on the market. Since 2000 I had wanted something like an iPhone because it was annoying to carry around a cell phone and an mp3 player at the same time, but i didn't get one when they came out because of the specifics of how it was done; most people didn't care about those specifics though. It tied together wants they already had.
I can see how people are made more aware of potential wants they have, but it's not as simple as "apple said I need this, so I need this". It's more "Our product does x y and z" and someone thinks "Well i do x y and a little z so maybe i want this now. It looks better than what i have too". Advertising and marketing can only take you so far. There a few examples I can think of where I genuinely like the adverts but I don't like the product; "Bud Light Too Light Too Heavy" is one of the best. I'd have to be predisposed towards liking Bud Light or beers like it for that ad to have any meaningful effect on me, the marketing and advertisement would give me the nudge towards choosing them.
How do I tie this back to the iPad? I'm not sure they can nudge a huge amount of people towards this product because it doesn't sufficiently differentiate itself in function from a product they already offer, the iPhone, and if you've been able to survive without one of those, surely you can survive without one of these. If you have a laptop that you use for work and haven't been for want of a tablet, the iPad isn't of any use. If you have a Kindle and a laptop and an iPhone, this doesn't really unify all three of the capabilities. I highly question who they can convince to purchase this product that weren't already predisposed towards gotta have it gadgetry.
There are equivalents in both, but he's saying that on OS X, all of them are accessed via Command+Something
In Windows or Linux, it could be ctrl or alt or win/super, and the hotkeys are all over the board. For example, Ctrl+W might kill the open window (if the application has that hotkey set) but it's Alt+F4 to close the application. In OS X, it's always Cmd+Something, and since the cmd button is used with the thumb (like an extension of the spacebar), it makes for less convoluted hand motions when hotkeying. You're probably going to disagree if you don't use OS X, but it's something you get used to really quickly and miss more than you'd think when using other OS's.
Command is the de-facto "This plus something does something" modifier in OS X by UI design standards, just as Alt is typically the modifier key
This is borderline silly goose territory. My main editor of choice is vim. I know more bloody keyboard shortcuts than I can even recount. Majority of which are at or near the home row. I could argue for days that this is so convenient it is frightening. I do not argue that it is somehow superior.
I meant you begin to miss the fact that most common shortcuts are used from the command key, not shortcuts themselves. It's just more intuitive and consistent across applications. And as much as I love vim and its keyboard shortcuts, there is no way anyone would use the word "intuitive" when describing it.
There is nothing intuitive about any keyboard shortcut. Period. There are quite a few that are familiar. To try and argue that command is somehow more intuitive is another silly goose claim.
If you want to argue that it is easier to type them. . . I'm not sure what that even means. I have never really had trouble with any of the key combos.
I agree.
However, one could argue that, based on keyboard positioning, Cmd shortcuts (Mac-style) are technically more efficient than Ctrl shortcuts (Windows-style). Most people hit the Command button with their thumb and the Control button with their pinky - not only are most people's thumbs are stronger than their pinkies, but hitting command and another key requires less hand stretching than the control key. It's a tiny difference, yes, but it's something.
However, one could argue that, based on keyboard positioning, Cmd shortcuts (Mac-style) are technically more efficient than Ctrl shortcuts (Windows-style). Most people hit the Command button with their thumb and the Control button with their pinky - not only are most people's thumbs are stronger than their pinkies, but hitting command and another key requires less hand stretching than the control key. It's a tiny difference, yes, but it's something.
I might as well argue that it is better for your health to get a small stretch in on every shortcut sequence.
I mean, if you have something that has done a good study showing that it is somehow better for you to type this way, I'm open to it. Right now, this is grasping at straws so hard it isn't funny.
However, one could argue that, based on keyboard positioning, Cmd shortcuts (Mac-style) are technically more efficient than Ctrl shortcuts (Windows-style). Most people hit the Command button with their thumb and the Control button with their pinky - not only are most people's thumbs are stronger than their pinkies, but hitting command and another key requires less hand stretching than the control key. It's a tiny difference, yes, but it's something.
I might as well argue that it is better for your health to get a small stretch in on every shortcut sequence.
I mean, if you have something that has done a good study showing that it is somehow better for you to type this way, I'm open to it. Right now, this is grasping at straws so hard it isn't funny.
You can reach the command key (with your thumb) without removing your fingers from the home row, so you don't need to alter your typical typing habits in order to utilize hotkeys.
Reaching with your pinky requires you to shift your hand off the home row.
And this ties into the iPad because I love browsing the internet with hotkeys because it makes opening and closing tabs significantly easier. I love the fact that my iPhone has a web browser (and fits in my pocket), but I do not prefer it over a desktop-OS web browser.
If you have tiny hands. I can reach the left ctrl or alt without moving my hand at all. The right ctrl is off limits. Of course, the most common keys hit while holding ctrl are xcv, so an easy shift of all fingers puts them all right in line.
Again, if you have a study showing this is somehow better, I'm all for it. Until then, it falls in dvorak land with a lot of people that think it is better, with the rest of the world not even knowing there is a debate.
If you have tiny hands. I can reach the left ctrl or alt without moving my hand at all. The right ctrl is off limits. Of course, the most common keys hit while holding ctrl are xcv, so an easy shift of all fingers puts them all right in line.
Again, if you have a study showing this is somehow better, I'm all for it. Until then, it falls in dvorak land with a lot of people that think it is better, with the rest of the world not even knowing there is a debate.
I'm beginning to prefer the OS X shortcuts for some common stuff I do, personally.
Ctrl+A, Cmd+A :: Select all. Pinky has to go to Ctrl, ring finger has to move over to A for this one. Cmd+A just requires that my thumb come off the space-bar.
Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V, Cmd+C/Cmd+V :: Copy/Paste. Again pinky has to go down to control, my entire left hand lifts off of the home-row for my index finger to either hit C or V.
It's a pretty minor thing all in all, but I have started to prefer the Mac Cmd shortcuts. Which kind of stinks seeing as how I make a living programming for and in Windows. :P
Some of this might be because of my keyboard though. It's one of those MS ergonomic models. Now I'm curious if I have the same level of comfort/annoyance on a regular keyboard while using the standard Ctrl shortcuts.
Posts
I have to ask, since I ask everyone in person who uses a Mac -- which finger do you use for the command key?
On Windows, everyone uses their pinky for Control, and primarily it really does get used for just copy & paste. On Macs, it seems that Command is almost always hit with the thumb, as if it were the spacebar (mostly because it's next to the spacebar), and as such it seems that Mac users end up using a lot more hotkeys. It's also the defacto modifier, as all native mac apps seem to use Command first and then add on other keys as necessary. On Windows, I can never keep alt & control straight. I know alt+f4 closes windows and ctrl+c/v is copy/paste, but is it control+t that opens a new tab in Chrome? Why does ctrl+t open a tab but alt+f4 close it?
Anyway, I don't think that Steve Jobs isn't a computer geek, I think he realized after NeXT that he doesn't like being a computer geek. I think he realized he just likes using computers. He doesn't want to write code -- he's a CEO of a huge company and would rather spend time doing, I don't know, CEO things, or non-work things.
For him, an iPad is probably perfect because he can sit around and browse shit without thinking about an operating system. For him, a lot of these devices prove to be "invisible," or that they make the software guts disappear. He doesn't think about what he can't do because he's thinking more about what he's going to do next.
I know there are other people out there like him, who don't want to code or plug shit into other shit. And they're the ones who own a Netbook and a Kindle and an iPhone and don't really see any overlap because they're using them differently. They'll probably be the first people who buy iPads based just on the marketing, because they're the ones who see it and say "yeah I want to use that, it lets me do computer things without using a computer."
I just don't think there's that many people who like to do "computer" things but don't like doing it on computers. Well, that's not Farmville.
Wait wait...
Is this serious?
Because, for each of those, I know there is an equivalent in linux. Is there not one in windows?
Seriously!?! You two are truly serious? If you want to know why alt-f4 closes things, that is because alt-f4 historically closed things. This hasn't changed ever. You know what, though? So does ctrl-w. Crazy, I know. It is almost like you don't have to learn all new ways when they are introduced, and can continue using what you know.
and ctrl+f4 will close an individual tab
it doesnt get simpler than that
adn the windows button does all sorts of awesome window arranging stuff in 7 now which has really helped rearranging workspaces that much snappier
speaking of keyboard shortcuts, as great as photoshop on a tablet with pressure sensitivity would be, i can't imagine divorcing the entire process from a keyboard. Most serious graphic designers I know could not live with just a stylus, the keyboard and shortcuts basically streamlines their workflow to a point where what would take them like an hour to do with a touch only interface would take them minutes to do with a stylus/mouse and keyboard combo.
There are equivalents in both, but he's saying that on OS X, all of them are accessed via Command+Something
In Windows or Linux, it could be ctrl or alt or win/super, and the hotkeys are all over the board. For example, Ctrl+W might kill the open window (if the application has that hotkey set) but it's Alt+F4 to close the application. In OS X, it's always Cmd+Something, and since the cmd button is used with the thumb (like an extension of the spacebar), it makes for less convoluted hand motions when hotkeying. You're probably going to disagree if you don't use OS X, but it's something you get used to really quickly and miss more than you'd think when using other OS's.
Command is the de-facto "This plus something does something" modifier in OS X by UI design standards, just as Alt is typically the modifier key
Thy don't have a team spending days / weeks playtesting these games. The 100 buck developer license doesn't give them a staff big enough to nintendo "seal of approval" the 50k games on the market.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Ironically, the Nintendo Seal of Quality's standards aren't actually that different from the App Store standards (other than the random "rejection for no reason" of the app store). The seal basically just meant that the game was officially licensed, had no obviously game-crashing bugs, and didn't have naughty bits - it was more of a marketing tactic than anything.
And since switching to Mac 5 years ago I find I use keyboard shortcuts far more than I ever did on Windows. One thing I like is that the shortcuts are always the same across apps. IE "Cmd+," will always open preferences. I've found that isn't true on Windows, where every program seems to have its own set of shortcuts to learn.
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
Not to guys like you and i, but to the non forum plebs :P
Disagree. I think that, in the first month, it'll sell like gangbusters. They won't be able to keep em in the stores. But then! As people start to play with it, they'll realize something. They'll say, "Why can't I play Farmville? Why can't I go to Youtube, or CNN? Why do none of the videos work?"
Here's a little scenario for you. Lets say a internet company started offering a pay-per-view movie system. You give em money, and you get to watch TV and movies, all wonderful and delivered. Great, huh? I'd not use it, as I have Bittorrent and other methods, but if i wanted something quick and clean, I might.
Now, lets say that company then said, "Oh, by the way, we are blocking all Bittorrent downloads." What do you think the reaction would be? People would be screaming for blood! Yet this is exactly what Apple is doing, and I think people will realize this. They want you to give them money, so they block things that would let you use other methods. I think we'll see if this is true if Apple keeps the Kindle App on it's iPad.
BTW, intresting post on Gizmodo, heh, to sum up, "Apple is great, you whiners need to shut up or put up!"
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
And CNN has a mobile site with support for quicktime enabled video, as does NBC.
What I do not understand is that people who clearly have specific reasons why they don't want to buy the device insist on pissing on it.
Like
I have no express need to buy a pet gorilla
but I am not here like "you know what, fuck gorillas, what the fuck was nature thinking, jesus"
Plus it will have the same Youtube app that's on the iPhone.
XBL |Steam | PSN | last.fm
I ask, because that would be really annoying if it didn't, since you would have to somehow get the URL or video name and search in the app to see it.
It opens the video's page in Youtube Mobile, but when you click play on the video itself it opens in the Youtube app. At least, that's how Tweetie does it, I assume email/Safari/etc is the same.
XBL |Steam | PSN | last.fm
it's because apple's marketing machine is too strong, and we are afraid that suddenly all of the stores are going to stop selling everything BUT gorillas, because those are what sell now, and soon after all the manufacturers are just going to be putting out orangutans and chimpanzees, and only other manner of apes, because they think that they have to be similar to the gorilla in order to sell
All I want is a fucking dog. But now I'm going to have to buy a gibbon, because that's the closest that anyone makes anymore.
the key piece here is that before apple released their gorilla, no one really wanted a gorilla. It's not that this is an existent niche that has been waiting to be filled, it is that apple is good of convincing people to buy things that they had not previously wanted.
Working might be a strong term for it, it's rather unpleasant to use and half the time it ends up falling back to flash anyway.
Here's my spin:
Apple currently sells several types of greater and lesser primates. Gorillas that are strong and powerful, lemurs that are quick and agile, and now they're telling everyone that they're going to come out with a new primate that will revolutionize the animal kingdom forever.
And then they release: The Orangutan. It's not as strong as the gorilla, it's not as fast or discrete as the lemur, and its whole purpose is rather questionable.
Meanwhile, all the Apple Zoologists are going, "Jeez, they already own the proprietary material necessary to make a really good primate. Like a human. Is that too much to ask? Hell, I would have be satisfied with just a chimp. At least chimps can use tools and have advanced communications skills."
But then again, the Orangutan is going to be really cheap, and some people don't really care about what kind of monkey they're getting as long as it's a monkey.
XBL |Steam | PSN | last.fm
Then everyone engages in a fruitless 4 page silly goose argument over that fact that a monkey is not an ape and no matter how great the monkey theoretically is it cannot match the flexibility of a full blown ape.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Fortunately...
There's an ape for that.
at least I managed to just stick to greater and lesser apes (I ignored bonobos, just like society
This is borderline silly goose territory. My main editor of choice is vim. I know more bloody keyboard shortcuts than I can even recount. Majority of which are at or near the home row. I could argue for days that this is so convenient it is frightening. I do not argue that it is somehow superior.
The Seal of Quality used to be a way to force draconian standards on their system. In order to get it, you had to sell the rights of the game to nintendo and buy back the cartridges. So, no matter how well you did on your profit, Nintendo had their money.
So, hopefully it isn't that similar.
I would bet it would get 2 stars.
EDIT: After checking the Awesome forum, yep.
This is ridiculously awesome.
It's also not the full Youtube selection. Only a portion of the videos available on the website are available on the iPhone. My favorite bass video isn't available on the iPhone, for example:
I know it's not the only one, too. What's even more annoying is that there's nothing on the iPhone that says anything about it. If you search, it doesn't show up, because it only displays videos that are iPhone compatible. You have to go to the youtube website, search, and then when you try to play the video it hops into the Youtube App which yells at you.
Also, wouldn't it be the oRangutan?
I meant you begin to miss the fact that most common shortcuts are used from the command key, not shortcuts themselves. It's just more intuitive and consistent across applications. And as much as I love vim and its keyboard shortcuts, there is no way anyone would use the word "intuitive" when describing it.
Right. The other problem is Windows developers have been using basically the same idioms and UI guidelines forever, except they change incrementally per OS. Mac devs were forced to relearn everything with Cocoa/OS X, and it's stuck better since then.
There is nothing intuitive about any keyboard shortcut. Period. There are quite a few that are familiar. To try and argue that command is somehow more intuitive is another silly goose claim.
If you want to argue that it is easier to type them. . . I'm not sure what that even means. I have never really had trouble with any of the key combos.
I disagree on this point; Their two signature handheld products, the iPod and iPhone really DID fulfill a want that wasn't being fulfilled by others in an accessible and stadardized way. I prefer my Creative Zen but I don't think most people would, not because of marketing, but because it doesn't integrate as easily with the means of acquiring music, has a larger size, etc etc. The iPhone did deliver on what it said it would, and did it better than a lot of other products on the market. Since 2000 I had wanted something like an iPhone because it was annoying to carry around a cell phone and an mp3 player at the same time, but i didn't get one when they came out because of the specifics of how it was done; most people didn't care about those specifics though. It tied together wants they already had.
I can see how people are made more aware of potential wants they have, but it's not as simple as "apple said I need this, so I need this". It's more "Our product does x y and z" and someone thinks "Well i do x y and a little z so maybe i want this now. It looks better than what i have too". Advertising and marketing can only take you so far. There a few examples I can think of where I genuinely like the adverts but I don't like the product; "Bud Light Too Light Too Heavy" is one of the best. I'd have to be predisposed towards liking Bud Light or beers like it for that ad to have any meaningful effect on me, the marketing and advertisement would give me the nudge towards choosing them.
How do I tie this back to the iPad? I'm not sure they can nudge a huge amount of people towards this product because it doesn't sufficiently differentiate itself in function from a product they already offer, the iPhone, and if you've been able to survive without one of those, surely you can survive without one of these. If you have a laptop that you use for work and haven't been for want of a tablet, the iPad isn't of any use. If you have a Kindle and a laptop and an iPhone, this doesn't really unify all three of the capabilities. I highly question who they can convince to purchase this product that weren't already predisposed towards gotta have it gadgetry.
I agree.
However, one could argue that, based on keyboard positioning, Cmd shortcuts (Mac-style) are technically more efficient than Ctrl shortcuts (Windows-style). Most people hit the Command button with their thumb and the Control button with their pinky - not only are most people's thumbs are stronger than their pinkies, but hitting command and another key requires less hand stretching than the control key. It's a tiny difference, yes, but it's something.
I might as well argue that it is better for your health to get a small stretch in on every shortcut sequence.
I mean, if you have something that has done a good study showing that it is somehow better for you to type this way, I'm open to it. Right now, this is grasping at straws so hard it isn't funny.
You can reach the command key (with your thumb) without removing your fingers from the home row, so you don't need to alter your typical typing habits in order to utilize hotkeys.
Reaching with your pinky requires you to shift your hand off the home row.
And this ties into the iPad because I love browsing the internet with hotkeys because it makes opening and closing tabs significantly easier. I love the fact that my iPhone has a web browser (and fits in my pocket), but I do not prefer it over a desktop-OS web browser.
Again, if you have a study showing this is somehow better, I'm all for it. Until then, it falls in dvorak land with a lot of people that think it is better, with the rest of the world not even knowing there is a debate.
Ctrl+A, Cmd+A :: Select all. Pinky has to go to Ctrl, ring finger has to move over to A for this one. Cmd+A just requires that my thumb come off the space-bar.
Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V, Cmd+C/Cmd+V :: Copy/Paste. Again pinky has to go down to control, my entire left hand lifts off of the home-row for my index finger to either hit C or V.
It's a pretty minor thing all in all, but I have started to prefer the Mac Cmd shortcuts. Which kind of stinks seeing as how I make a living programming for and in Windows. :P
Some of this might be because of my keyboard though. It's one of those MS ergonomic models. Now I'm curious if I have the same level of comfort/annoyance on a regular keyboard while using the standard Ctrl shortcuts.