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Aliens vs Predator vs Bill Paxton vs Sexual Tyrannosaurus

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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    James Cameron MADE Alien, before that it was spectacular but not intensely amazingly spectacular. If you're goiong nto do a film in this vein you pick a point, say Alien 3, and erase everything afterwards from canon then start over and fix it, you dont just go tell a story that doesnt need telling.

    DarkWarrior on
  • Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User
    edited April 2010
    What you just described are stories that don't need telling.

    I get what you're trying to say, but Ridley Scott's movie is what "made" ALIEN. If he wants to tell a story mostly divorced from all the baggage that has become ALIEN movies, I'm all for it, especially if he's getting back together with Giger to come up with something truly mindfucked for a creature.

    "erase everything afterwards from canon and then start over and fix it" just sounds like a really bad point to even begin from, because the focus there isn't creation, it's patchwork. It's wrestling something ill-fitting into a broken thing.

    Again - as far as horror movies go, it's generally recognized that ALIEN is a fuckin classic. I wanna see Ridley Scott attempt a horror movie again. That it's in the ALIEN universe again is a bonus. That Giger is redesigning the thing is a bonus on top of a bonus.

    That said, I do admit it could suck (Hannibal, anyone) but there's much more reason to be optimistic, I think.

    Fatboy Roberts on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    What you just described are stories that don't need telling.

    I get what you're trying to say, but Ridley Scott's movie is what "made" ALIEN. If he wants to tell a story mostly divorced from all the baggage that has become ALIEN movies, I'm all for it, especially if he's getting back together with Giger to come up with something truly mindfucked for a creature.

    "erase everything afterwards from canon and then start over and fix it" just sounds like a really bad point to even begin from, because the focus there isn't creation, it's patchwork. It's wrestling something ill-fitting into a broken thing.

    Again - as far as horror movies go, it's generally recognized that ALIEN is a fuckin classic. I wanna see Ridley Scott attempt a horror movie again. That it's in the ALIEN universe again is a bonus. That Giger is redesigning the thing is a bonus on top of a bonus.

    That said, I do admit it could suck (Hannibal, anyone) but there's much more reason to be optimistic, I think.

    I think of it more like Star Wars prequels. Everything about the PT ruins every twist and reveal of the OT before it happens, so like the first time you see the Queen is right at the end of Aliens. So what will this prequel entail? Just aliens or a Queen? A new type thats not been seen since? It letterboxes what you can do or you can ignore the restrictions and it'll probably end up seemingly silly that it never happens in the sequels. And you need the human element for the audience to relate to so its likely humans would be involved which changes up the Nostromo crew being the first to come across it.

    And in the time since Alien, he's made some real clangers in terms of films.

    I'm all for more Aliens but I just really, really don't like prequels when the opportunity to advance teh story is there.

    DarkWarrior on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The President has been kidnapped by ALIENS. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?

    emnmnme on
  • Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User
    edited April 2010
    I don't really think there's a chance to "advance" the story anymore. It's been fucked to death. People had the chance to advance and it was Muppet Babies and Vagina-mouthed predaliens and so on. I understand wanting to preserve the "mystery" of the Space Jockey, but on the other hand, if Scott has a story involving that thing, I'm fine sacrificing the 3 seconds of "WHOA" upon its reveal in ALIEN for 2 hours of unique horror film experience.

    And there's going to be a human element - he's talking about casting the lead in the little tidbits we got. What kind of ALIEN are we gonna get? I dunno - maybe there's no Queen at all. Maybe it's something completely different. Maybe it's like the first movie, where humans just get turned into eggs, which would explain why nobody knows about the xenomorphs until the Nostromo happens across it. This is part of why ALIEN was so scary - the idea that it could be anything, that all your nightmares are up for grabs, that's an element that hasn't been a part of ALIEN for a very long time, and I don't think is possible if we follow the idea it needs to be some sort of pseudo-sequel. You cite the PT as reason we gotta keep going forward - I'll cite Superman Returns as an example of why this endeavor is a better choice, probably.

    And post-ALIEN, the number of BAD movies Scott has made is pretty small. There's Hannibal (which was pretty as hell and sorta fun in a cheesy way) and...A Good Year? Legend was kind of boring. Which films were you thinking of as evidence that dude is on shaky ground returning to ALIEN?

    Fatboy Roberts on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    I don't really think there's a chance to "advance" the story anymore. It's been fucked to death. People had the chance to advance and it was Muppet Babies and Vagina-mouthed predaliens and so on. I understand wanting to preserve the "mystery" of the Space Jockey, but on the other hand, if Scott has a story involving that thing, I'm fine sacrificing the 3 seconds of "WHOA" upon its reveal in ALIEN for 2 hours of unique horror film experience.

    And there's going to be a human element - he's talking about casting the lead in the little tidbits we got. What kind of ALIEN are we gonna get? I dunno - maybe there's no Queen at all. Maybe it's something completely different. Maybe it's like the first movie, where humans just get turned into eggs, which would explain why nobody knows about the xenomorphs until the Nostromo happens across it. This is part of why ALIEN was so scary - the idea that it could be anything, that all your nightmares are up for grabs, that's an element that hasn't been a part of ALIEN for a very long time, and I don't think is possible if we follow the idea it needs to be some sort of pseudo-sequel. You cite the PT as reason we gotta keep going forward - I'll cite Superman Returns as an example of why this endeavor is a better choice, probably.

    And post-ALIEN, the number of BAD movies Scott has made is pretty small. There's Hannibal (which was pretty as hell and sorta fun in a cheesy way) and...A Good Year? Legend was kind of boring. Which films were you thinking of as evidence that dude is on shaky ground returning to ALIEN?

    Robin Hood is the most recent and glaring one. I know its not out yet but every preview or piece of news that comes out about it, or trailer, make it look like teh next Alexander. Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down, Matchstick Men, A Good Year and Body of Lies.

    Superman Returns was emulating a film that, I personally, never felt was all that great anyway. Aliens tried to do its own thing, take Alien and add its own flavour, make it bigger and better, though I get what you're saying.

    Its really too early to say anything but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it for a good long while.

    DarkWarrior on
  • Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User
    edited April 2010
    And post-ALIEN, the number of BAD movies Scott has made is pretty small. There's Hannibal (which was pretty as hell and sorta fun in a cheesy way) and...A Good Year? Legend was kind of boring. Which films were you thinking of as evidence that dude is on shaky ground returning to ALIEN?

    Robin Hood is the most recent and glaring one. I know its not out yet

    dude

    That's kinda bullshit. You say "He's made a bunch of clangers." I ask "what?" and you name a movie YOU HAVEN'T SEEN YET. :)

    Body of Lies is a film I totally forgot about, though. Decent call. Strongly disagree on Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down and Matchstick Men, but hey, opinions and leather cheerios and all that.

    Fatboy Roberts on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I liked Nicolas Cage in Matchstick Men more than I liked the movie as a whole.

    emnmnme on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    And post-ALIEN, the number of BAD movies Scott has made is pretty small. There's Hannibal (which was pretty as hell and sorta fun in a cheesy way) and...A Good Year? Legend was kind of boring. Which films were you thinking of as evidence that dude is on shaky ground returning to ALIEN?

    Robin Hood is the most recent and glaring one. I know its not out yet

    dude

    That's kinda bullshit. You say "He's made a bunch of clangers." I ask "what?" and you name a movie YOU HAVEN'T SEEN YET. :)

    Body of Lies is a film I totally forgot about, though. Decent call. Strongly disagree on Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down and Matchstick Men, but hey, opinions and leather cheerios and all that.

    Mostly I'm just concerned that this prequel will make my erotic Space Jockey fanfiction not make sense anymore.

    DarkWarrior on
  • Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User
    edited April 2010
    well, shit, that's a valid concern. You should have opened with that right up front, I wouldn't have put up any challenge.

    A man's got to have his biomechanoid elephant pron.

    Fatboy Roberts on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mostly I'm just concerned that this prequel will make my erotic Space Jockey fanfiction not make sense anymore.

    sigged

    emnmnme on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Mostly I'm just concerned that this prequel will make my erotic Space Jockey fanfiction not make sense anymore.

    sigged

    Curse you!

    DarkWarrior on
  • TalleyrandTalleyrand Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The one thing that confuses the hell out of me is that Alien and Bladerunner had so much going on in them. They were pretty multi-layered films. I don't see much of that going on with his recent movies, what changed?

    Talleyrand on
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  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Production costs. Why spend a whole lot of money building scenery when you can spend it instead on CGI and explosives?

    Nocren on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Talleyrand wrote: »
    The one thing that confuses the hell out of me is that Alien and Bladerunner had so much going on in them. They were pretty multi-layered films. I don't see much of that going on with his recent movies, what changed?

    They were science fiction films that Ridley helped craft from nearly the very beginning.

    All his more recent work has been on films set in modern (or historical) times where everything is very much established already, so he doesn't have as much control over the appearance of every little facet.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kingdom of Heaven
    Have you seen the director's cut?

    , Black Hawk Down,
    I haven't seen this but I've never heard a bad thing about it before now

    Matchstick Men,
    What? Seriously? The movie is fantastic and it proves that Nic Cage can act when he wants.

    Nappuccino on
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    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The only thing I've heard negative about Black Hawk Down was that they had to change the name of one of the characters in the movie because the actual guy who was involved in the actual incident ended up being a child molester or something.

    As for the movie itself, I've always heard good things.

    SmokeStacks on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I didn't like part of the plot of Matchstick Men, it felt kind of cheap, but it was a superbly crafted film other than that.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I didn't like part of the plot of Matchstick Men, it felt kind of cheap, but it was a superbly crafted film other than that.
    you mean that Nic Cage himself was conned? The way it happens is a little implausible, but not terribly so...

    Nappuccino on
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    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Oh hey, they cast Adrien Brody as Zaeed Massani.

    kedinik on
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I wouldn't mind them striking Alien: Resurrection from canon.


    And shooting all unsold copies out of a cannon.

    Lanz on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm sorta surprised at how knee-jerk the negative reaction is. Part of the reason ALIEN worked so well was because of the alien nature of the creature. You had no idea what the fuck to expect. So you get the same director, hopefully working in the same slow, deliberate fashion, in 3D, with a redesigned (w/ Giger's help, no less) xenomorph, and it's automatically "teh suck?"

    I know 3D has a huge, and well-deserved, backlash, especially after Clash of the Titans. but 3D is really well suited to the sort of long takes that Ridley used to make up about 95% of ALIEN back in 79. That movie is, in my opinion, the perfect horror film, especially in the way the pacing helps establish a pervasive dread that is working your nerves almost subliminally. Now imagine adding a shot-for-3D-with-3D-cameras element to that immersive dread.

    Directed by Ridley Scott.

    with all new creature designs by H.R. Giger.

    And it's automatically "MAN, FUCK THIS?"

    I don't get that.

    Yeah. I mean it could suck, sure, but it's got a decent chance of being good too.

    It'll at least be worth a look.

    shryke on
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What are the chances that they use Cameron's 3D Cameras to film it, I wonder?

    Lanz on
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  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The only Alien movies worth watching (or acknowledging the existence of) are the first 2.

    Also put me firmly into the pessimistic camp with this Alien prequel. I hope it will be good, it will probably at the very least be entertaining. But I am fully expecting to have to turn my brain off.

    The Alien franchise has been raped and molested into a shell of what it could have been.

    Al_wat on
  • finnithfinnith TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Alien 3 wasn't terrible. It wasn't great, but I thought it was a pretty competent movie. The series went to shit after that though.

    finnith on
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    finnith wrote: »
    Alien 3 wasn't terrible. It wasn't great, but I thought it was a pretty competent movie. The series went to shit after that though.

    Can't we just strike Resurrection from canon?

    And then shoot copies of it from cannons?

    I'm still trying to process how on earth the USMC could not spare the expense to give one of their military ships decent lighting.

    It was an entire room lit by a small florescent tube every 50 feet. Even before the whole place went to hell.

    Also please tell me I'm imagining the "WalMart bought out Weyland Yutani line.

    Lanz on
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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I would like to see an Alien vs Predator vs Die Hard crossover.

    Apothe0sis on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    finnith wrote: »
    Alien 3 wasn't terrible. It wasn't great, but I thought it was a pretty competent movie. The series went to shit after that though.

    Can't we just strike Resurrection from canon?

    And then shoot copies of it from cannons?

    I'm still trying to process how on earth the USMC could not spare the expense to give one of their military ships decent lighting.

    It was an entire room lit by a small florescent tube every 50 feet. Even before the whole place went to hell.

    Also please tell me I'm imagining the "WalMart bought out Weyland Yutani line.

    Either only consider Alien or consider all 4.

    And I assumed that because they live in that ship for months at a time the lighting was perfectly fine for them.

    Octoparrot on
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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Alien and Aliens are perfectly servicable alone and Aliens has essentially a happy ending with them off on their way to Earth. Its fairly easy to discard 3, Res and AVP1 and 2.

    DarkWarrior on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Alien and Aliens are perfectly servicable alone and Aliens has essentially a happy ending with them off on their way to Earth. Its fairly easy to discard 3, Res and AVP1 and 2.

    Alien has a happy ending with them on their way to earth. Aliens is like a sequel to The Hangover where the wolfpack wakes up in a torture dungeon in the Czech Republic.

    Octoparrot on
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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Everyone but Ripley died in Alien. Aliens is happy because she has a daughter and a man.

    DarkWarrior on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Everyone but Ripley died in Alien. Aliens is happy because she has a daughter and a man.

    The comic continuity (I recently picked up Aliens: Omnibus Vol 1 & 2) is far superior to the stupidity which is Aliens 3.

    It's still horribly, horribly depressing though.

    And involves it's own questionable decisions such as giving the Aliens pseudo-psychic powers.

    HamHamJ on
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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    And involves it's own questionable decisions such as giving the Aliens pseudo-psychic powers.

    D:

    Like, 'haunting dreams' small-time psychic powers or 'use the Force, Luke' psychic powers?

    emnmnme on
  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The only Alien movies worth watching (or acknowledging the existence of) are the first 2.

    Also put me firmly into the pessimistic camp with this Alien prequel. I hope it will be good, it will probably at the very least be entertaining. But I am fully expecting to have to turn my brain off.

    The Alien franchise has been raped and molested into a shell of what it could have been.

    Why are you guys pessimistic about it!? Ridley Scott, a director so good he was fuckin knighted is behind the movie. Granted Robin Hood sucked, but Alien, Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven (the amazing extended edition not the shit that was released in theaters)... all top notch movies.

    This is the first time to be optimistic about the alien franchise in a long long long time.

    That said, I think both directors of AvP and *shudder* AvP:R need to be executed... also...

    THIS IS A MUST WATCH TO ANY ALIEN OR PREDATOR FAN... A MUST WATCH! FUNNY AS HELL!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgXd6Npj4ZY

    Wishpig on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    And involves it's own questionable decisions such as giving the Aliens pseudo-psychic powers.

    D:

    Like, 'haunting dreams' small-time psychic powers or 'use the Force, Luke' psychic powers?

    Like, the Alien queen created an evangelical cult to break her out of the company's containment facility.

    And then a different queen was like psychically calling out to Ripley from across the universe. Or something.

    And apparently the individual Aliens are psychically controlled by the Queen.

    HamHamJ on
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  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    finnith wrote: »
    Alien 3 wasn't terrible. It wasn't great, but I thought it was a pretty competent movie. The series went to shit after that though.

    For 13 years I have been trying to wrap my brain around the fact that Joss Whedon wrote Alien Resurrection.

    Everyone has one, I guess.

    GoodKingJayIII on
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  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Actually they pretty much turned his script upside down, what we saw wasn't exactly what he wrote.

    Now if it would have been any good that is the question.

    Cade on
  • Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User
    edited May 2010
    I hate this idea that "they turned his script around."

    They didn't. I've read his first and 2nd drafts. He was on-set during filming, and there were some changes there, (very few scripts make it to screen unscathed) but the structure is pretty much EXACTLY the same. Some characters got condensed (there were even MORE annoying space pirates in his earlier drafts, including one who was basically "Chow Yun Fat." That was the extent of the characterization) and the climax of the film was changed. That's basically it. Everything else that's in Alien: Resurrection was in his screenplay. The movie sucked partially because Jeunet didn't really know WHY he was doing it and so he was content to turn it into set design pornography and cash the check, but a big part of the problem was that Whedon basically turned in ALIENS fan-fiction as a finished product.

    The climax they changed, by the way? They land successfully on earth, in a cornfield (I'm going from memory here) the muppet-alien starts chasing Ripley and Call. They get in a hover-thresher (a space combine, I shit you not) and there's a chase sequence that ends with the muppet baby getting cut up and dying. The Muppet Baby being sucked into space through a hole the size of a toothpaste cap is probably a lot better than the silliness involved in a hover-thresher fight. Originally, the Dan Hedaya general was supposed to be sucked out into space, but they decided to give the muppet baby that death, and consigned Hedaya to looking at a chunk of his own skull before dying.

    Fatboy Roberts on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Some characters got condensed (there were even MORE annoying space pirates in his earlier drafts

    How can you hate the space pirates? Ressurection went downhill IMO the moment I learned that no, we weren't going to learn more about them, now they're just generic extras in a slasher film (seriously, killing the captain and his navigator lover so early...). I loved the characters in the first two movies (not so much the convicts in 3) and was hoping for more of the same.

    Alien gave us a motley civillian crew, Aliens a badass marine platoon and shady smugglers/pirates in 4? It starts well but like 20 minutes into the movie the characters stop interacting with each other besides that tough guy doing his rebellious tough guy act against Ripley. I can't even remember their names. You can't remember any dialogue because there was none.

    IMHO more space pirates, more space pirate scenes and them actually interacting with each other as they deal with the fucked up situation would have made the movie so much better. Also no alien/human crossbreed and we've got a winner.

    Lanlaorn on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    Actually they pretty much turned his script upside down, what we saw wasn't exactly what he wrote.
    So he says. Frankly I think that's bullshit, there are Whedon lines all over that fucker, they just really really don't work in an Aliens movie.

    Salvation122 on
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