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The Best Films of 2009...

12346

Posts

  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    psychoanalyzing characters in movies never really appealed to me... I don't know how you can enjoy anything that way.

    but we also have people watching the hangover to get over watching a coen brothers movie so maybe I don't know anything at all.

    No, no. You're not the crazy one here.

    Centipede Damascus on
  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    Atomika on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something.

    You were missing something because you supposed to be missing something. Life is confusing and nebulous, and the comfort of religion is maddening at those points when meaning seems lost, as surety can never truly be found in the metaphysical or spiritual.

    You were missing something because we're all missing something, but we persist in looking.

    Atomika on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something.

    You were missing something because you supposed to be missing something. Life is confusing and nebulous, and the comfort of religion is maddening at those points when meaning seems lost, as surety can never truly be found in the metaphysical or spiritual.

    You were missing something because we're all missing something, but we persist in looking.

    so there are no thematically significant scenes in the movie? okay.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something.

    You were missing something because you supposed to be missing something. Life is confusing and nebulous, and the comfort of religion is maddening at those points when meaning seems lost, as surety can never truly be found in the metaphysical or spiritual.

    You were missing something because we're all missing something, but we persist in looking.

    so there are no thematically significant scenes in the movie? okay.

    "Theme" is a different component than "arc."

    Themes are present. Arcs, not so much, but purposefully so.

    Atomika on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    That seems a little silly and shows a high degree of navel-gazing, like if what's-his-face make a crappy movie about a guy running in a circle and expected high praise because a movie about EXPLOSIONS! is so different for him.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    That seems a little silly and shows a high degree of navel-gazing, like if what's-his-face make a crappy movie about a guy running in a circle and expected high praise because a movie about EXPLOSIONS! is so different for him.

    I'll agree that the film isn't for everyone, but the original conversation began when someone insinuated the film was objectively awful.

    A Serious Man wasn't really all that different for the Coens. It's definitely got their style all over it, and there are some great performances within. It's just a little demanding of attention and intellect, and that's not everybody's bag.

    Personally, I can't see how you can make a movie about an honest personal introspection into one's faith and spirituality and arrive at concrete destination, so chiding the film on its nebulous and confusing nature seems a tad dishonest.

    Atomika on
  • MacGuffinMacGuffin Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.

    MacGuffin on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    A dybbuk?

    That's from a Russell Stannard children's book I'm pretty sure - it's the unidentifiable object that is found at the bottom of the washing up. From his uncle Albert books I think?

    EDIT: Or it's a Jewish spirit and I was just in physics-mode when I read it.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.


    Well put.
    I had failed to mention the importance of Schrodinger's Cat within the film, which is my error, as the concept is basically the core of the entire movie. Many people have said that the film is an allegory to Job's biblical tale, but I think that while it really isn't, the similarity is intentional in much the same way many other things in the film are: to cast doubt on other arguments.

    The movie's throughline is undoubtedly regarding the effect of uncertainty in the life of someone respectful of both science and the spiritual, and in attempting to reconcile either without devaluing the other comes the maddeningly circuitous cycle of doubt.

    Or basically, it's about the effects of searching for meaning in life when your heart tells you meaning exists and your brain can prove that it doesn't.

    Atomika on
  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Sentry wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Profs wrote: »
    I don't know...I was actually kind of disappointed by 500 days. I thought it was gonna do a better job of straddling the fence between chick flick and comedy. Instead it kind of falls over the side (onto the romance one). Still, Joseph Gordon Levitt is fucking fantastic.

    Not to mention that they kept insisting that a relationship between a passive-aggressive dead-ender and a sociopath is more realistic just because they end up breaking up.

    Wait, which one's the sociopath? Why now?

    Well, the first tip-off was the statement "she took pride in two things: her beautiful dark hair, and the fact that she could cut it off without feeling anything." Her disregard for other people for the rest of the movie just supported the impression that she was nuts.

    Wasn't that mentioned in the context of her parents going through their divorce? It was foreshadowing how she would come to view relationships.

    Shhhh, dont put context to it. Especialy considering that she understood how the other person felt but she told him STRAIGHT FROM THE BEGINING SHE DIDNT WANT A RELATIONSHIP!

    The movie is not about crazy people, it's about how two people can fall in love, out of love, and how both are a part of life and important to growth.

    Jokerman on
  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    And also, this is an Academy Award winning scene right here.
    vlcsnap-2010-01-28-10h15m09s63.jpg

    Jokerman on
  • MacGuffinMacGuffin Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.


    Well put.
    I had failed to mention the importance of Schrodinger's Cat within the film, which is my error, as the concept is basically the core of the entire movie. Many people have said that the film is an allegory to Job's biblical tale, but I think that while it really isn't, the similarity is intentional in much the same way many other things in the film are: to cast doubt on other arguments.

    The movie's throughline is undoubtedly regarding the effect of uncertainty in the life of someone respectful of both science and the spiritual, and in attempting to reconcile either without devaluing the other comes the maddeningly circuitous cycle of doubt.

    Or basically, it's about the effects of searching for meaning in life when your heart tells you meaning exists and your brain can prove that it doesn't.
    In my opinion Job's tale is actually as central to the movie as the cat is. It isn't about a man looking for a meaning in life, Larry is looking for a meaning in the evil things happening to him. Which is what the book Job is all about.

    In the end he has two possible explanations for his misery. Maybe he was cursed because his ancestors killed a ghost/rabbi, maybe god want's to test him, or he actually is like the cat, just doomed by the scientifically proven uncertainty of the universe and the fact that he has been collapsed in a certain state. In the end both these things are shown to be equally right and wrong, by his doctor calling him to deliver the news and by us looking into the aproching "biblical" storm and the zombielike (like Ebert put it, I think) face of the bully.

    Science and religion both stand next each other interlocked in a state of uncertainty like the simultaneously dead and alive felinae, waiting to collapse. The outcome of this doesn't matter, since Larrys fait has been decided long before, either way, by powers higher then him.

    MacGuffin on
  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.


    Well put.
    I had failed to mention the importance of Schrodinger's Cat within the film, which is my error, as the concept is basically the core of the entire movie. Many people have said that the film is an allegory to Job's biblical tale, but I think that while it really isn't, the similarity is intentional in much the same way many other things in the film are: to cast doubt on other arguments.

    The movie's throughline is undoubtedly regarding the effect of uncertainty in the life of someone respectful of both science and the spiritual, and in attempting to reconcile either without devaluing the other comes the maddeningly circuitous cycle of doubt.

    Or basically, it's about the effects of searching for meaning in life when your heart tells you meaning exists and your brain can prove that it doesn't.
    In my opinion Job's tale is actually as central to the movie as the cat is. It isn't about a man looking for a meaning in life, Larry is looking for a meaning in the evil things happening to him. Which is what the book Job is all about.

    In the end he has two possible explanations for his misery. Maybe he was cursed because his ancestors killed a ghost/rabbi, maybe god want's to test him, or he actually is like the cat, just doomed by the scientifically proven uncertainty of the universe and the fact that he has been collapsed in a certain state. In the end both these things are shown to be equally right and wrong, by his doctor calling him to deliver the news and by us looking into the aproching "biblical" storm and the zombielike (like Ebert put it, I think) face of the bully.

    Science and religion both stand next each other interlocked in a state of uncertainty like the simultaneously dead and alive felinae, waiting to collapse. The outcome of this doesn't matter, since Larrys fait has been decided long before, either way, by powers higher then him.

    This movie seems like something podly would write.

    PASS!

    Jokerman on
  • truck-a-saurastruck-a-sauras Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    didn't watch many new movies this year and I love cheese, but some of my tops were
    Crank 2
    Watchmen
    Green Lantern: First Flight

    truck-a-sauras on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Steam
    XBOX
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.
    I am familiar with Schrodinger's cat, and the uncertainty thing is clear, but I couldn't even tell that the rabbi was quoting the lyrics of Somebody to Love, so that is helpful. But "the religious one" is a bit vague; what do you think the first scene is meant to do? Establish an uncertainty as to whether he's cursed or just unlucky?

    There's a lot going on with the Danny/rabbi scene, and a lot of it is personal and Jewish, not just thematic, which may contribute to why I'm not grasping it as much as I'd like. I feel as though you can't really grasp that scene completely unless you have walked into an office like that after your own bar mitzvah.

    I liked the movie, personally, I just didn't feel blown away like I did after watching No Country for Old Men, for example. I might watch it again.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • CatrelStevensCatrelStevens Registered User
    edited January 2010
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.
    I am familiar with Schrodinger's cat, and the uncertainty thing is clear, but I couldn't even tell that the rabbi was quoting the lyrics of Somebody to Love, so that is helpful. But "the religious one" is a bit vague; what do you think the first scene is meant to do? Establish an uncertainty as to whether he's cursed or just unlucky?

    There's a lot going on with the Danny/rabbi scene, and a lot of it is personal and Jewish, not just thematic, which may contribute to why I'm not grasping it as much as I'd like. I feel as though you can't really grasp that scene completely unless you have walked into an office like that after your own bar mitzvah.

    I liked the movie, personally, I just didn't feel blown away like I did after watching No Country for Old Men, for example. I might watch it again.
    A Serious Man really, really rewards multiple viewings in my opinion. It's one of the Coen Brothers' best, and there are so many layers of significance and interpretation you can easily get lost in it. If you really wanna fuck with your understanding of the film on rewatch, picture his strict, ex-army neighbor as god, and his seductive red-headed neighbor as hasatan (the adversary, satan). Or, why does Larry's family eat soup in silence while he's at the Jolly Roger? Pay attention to how Clive the Korean student enters Larry's office near the beginning, and what he does to Larry before leaving, and what Larry finds when he runs after him with the envelope.

    The opening scene actually doesn't link narratively to the rest of the film, I believe the Coens have said in an interview. It's really just an unconnected parable to help you frame the following story, which, in itself, is an incredibly well-crafted parable. Think about the film as a parable attempting to impart advice and wisdom. Parables don't always have clear meanings or resolutions, and can have very different things taken out of them by different audiences who are looking for/expecting difference things or have different life experiences. This film is very, very much the same. It's Shroedinger's cat, yes, but it's also the goy's teeth, and the Rabbi/Dybbuk.

    CatrelStevens on
    DHS Odium wrote:
    Oh god, I think I saw that clip. The eels flew out of her...
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Shhhh, dont put context to it. Especialy considering that she understood how the other person felt but she told him STRAIGHT FROM THE BEGINING SHE DIDNT WANT A RELATIONSHIP!

    The movie is not about crazy people, it's about how two people can fall in love, out of love, and how both are a part of life and important to growth.
    There is a movie I want to see: the first half is two people meeting and falling in love and then they break up.

    Then, the next 25% the screen is split in half as they meet two new people fall in love and then break up. Then... etc. Until there are 2 second pulses in 256 little screens of people laughing then yelling.

    There need to be more movies about acceptable breakups and less that end 2 days after people start dating.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    Also, I was completely disassociated from the movied, because of the heavy Jewish undertones. I think I understood two words. The rest was jibberish.

    The Judaism on display wasn't all that complex, but I guess I can see how someone totally unfamiliar with it might get a bit lost.

    But your original post seemed to state utter disdain without any context. "I didn't enjoy this film because it was confusing and I lacked understanding of requisite context" is quite different from absolutist statements like "Unwatchable . . . I am worse off for having watched it."


    It's one of the best films the Coens have ever made, if not THE best. Now, in the context that you called possibly the best film from arguably the best directors working "Unwatchable," your judgment on the issue is called into question, at the very least.


    Unenjoyable. Not unwatchable. It may, in fact, be a good movie. But it didn't appeal to me. I utterly loathed the main character's personality. He just seemed too f**king unsure of himself and every...single...mother...f**king indecisive moment was an overly-dramatic event. I think that's why I got a headache. I wanted to reach out and strangle the bastard.

    Slider on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    why are you censoring "fuck"

    are you afraid to say "fuck" out loud

    Centipede Damascus on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.
    I am familiar with Schrodinger's cat, and the uncertainty thing is clear, but I couldn't even tell that the rabbi was quoting the lyrics of Somebody to Love, so that is helpful. But "the religious one" is a bit vague; what do you think the first scene is meant to do? Establish an uncertainty as to whether he's cursed or just unlucky?

    There's a lot going on with the Danny/rabbi scene, and a lot of it is personal and Jewish, not just thematic, which may contribute to why I'm not grasping it as much as I'd like. I feel as though you can't really grasp that scene completely unless you have walked into an office like that after your own bar mitzvah.

    I liked the movie, personally, I just didn't feel blown away like I did after watching No Country for Old Men, for example. I might watch it again.

    The cat reference seems like the kind of thing that makes me prefer the time when references were Jungian.

    I bet you can guess which side I'm on in the fight between Henry James and H. G. Wells.

    Scalfin on
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  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    why are you censoring "fuck"

    are you afraid to say "fuck" out loud

    Habit. Most forums censor.

    I saw Moon and I liked it. Not much happened, but it evolved in ways that I can relate with.

    Anyway. I also saw Antichrist. Dafoe always does a great job, but in this movie he's f**king around with very weird chick. I'm not sure, but I think the moral of this movie is:
    Stay away from weird chicks or your penis will bleed.

    ...the ending was brutal. I've never screamed like that before.

    Slider on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm almost done with A Serious Man and now I can't wait to read this discussion, this movie is outstanding. and hilarious.

    Variable on
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  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    We need to discuss more of Moon.

    Jokerman on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I will watch Moon soon too

    Variable on
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  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I have to say that I'm disappointed with the small amount of praise Moon is getting. Sure, it's a small movie, but it doesn't play like one, and it's extremely accessible.

    It's been kicked around by everyone from audiences to award shows to its own distributor. Sad, really. A very good film, in a year filled with very good films.

    Atomika on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    I have to say that I'm disappointed with the small amount of praise Moon is getting. Sure, it's a small movie, but it doesn't play like one, and it's extremely accessible.

    It's been kicked around by everyone from audiences to award shows to its own distributor. Sad, really. A very good film, in a year filled with very good films.

    I've heard The Fountain's really good, and it doesn't make my think of the character Moonface whenever I hear its name.

    Scalfin on
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  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I felt that the first scene was completely disconnected from the rest, that's how I took it. Already enjoying reading a lot of these posts, I enjoyed it on a very superficial level on the first run (I honestly thought it was very funny) but I'll definitely be watching this again after reading a bit.
    MacGuffin wrote: »
    i don't really see the usual thematic arc that is present in their films.

    That, friend, was the entire point of the film.

    so, what, the movie was just about how life sucks and then you die?

    that seems a bit facile.

    there were a lot of scenes that were obviously thematically significant, especially things like the ending, and i don't think i grasped the thread. i mean, it was about lack of control and lack of certainty, and i think the movie was attempting to evoke the feeling that one has in the face of those existential crises, and to some extent make reference to Job, but there were many scenes where i could tell i was missing something. and not just because i'm not jewish.

    for example, the scene with Danny and the rabbi. i don't really know what that was supposed to be, either in terms of narrative or in terms of theme.
    There are various themes that are very hard to grasp, since the are from totally diffent fields of thought.

    The most central is of course the religious one, starting with the Rabbi who might or might not be a Dybbuk, and who might have cursed the family line. It's reaching it's climax in the scene with the rabbi and Danny. I think Ross is right, you're not supposed to understand everything going on in that scene. The most apparent thing is the advice Danny gets from the rabbi. He is not just reciting the Lyrics of Somebody to Love, he is preaching them. It's the best advice he can give him.

    Another theme you could have missed is Schrödingers Cat. The movie is very hard to understand if you're not familiar with it. If that's the case you should probably look it up, it's a pretty fascinating thing. The movie takes the concept of uncertainty and collaps through masurement from it and applies it almost everywhere. For example the visitor is a Dybbuk or a Rabbi his state is uncertain until it gets measured. The same is the case with Larry when he goes to the doctor. In the end he his fate is certain through the masurement.
    I am familiar with Schrodinger's cat, and the uncertainty thing is clear, but I couldn't even tell that the rabbi was quoting the lyrics of Somebody to Love, so that is helpful. But "the religious one" is a bit vague; what do you think the first scene is meant to do? Establish an uncertainty as to whether he's cursed or just unlucky?

    There's a lot going on with the Danny/rabbi scene, and a lot of it is personal and Jewish, not just thematic, which may contribute to why I'm not grasping it as much as I'd like. I feel as though you can't really grasp that scene completely unless you have walked into an office like that after your own bar mitzvah.

    I liked the movie, personally, I just didn't feel blown away like I did after watching No Country for Old Men, for example. I might watch it again.
    A Serious Man really, really rewards multiple viewings in my opinion. It's one of the Coen Brothers' best, and there are so many layers of significance and interpretation you can easily get lost in it. If you really wanna fuck with your understanding of the film on rewatch, picture his strict, ex-army neighbor as god, and his seductive red-headed neighbor as hasatan (the adversary, satan). Or, why does Larry's family eat soup in silence while he's at the Jolly Roger? Pay attention to how Clive the Korean student enters Larry's office near the beginning, and what he does to Larry before leaving, and what Larry finds when he runs after him with the envelope.

    The opening scene actually doesn't link narratively to the rest of the film, I believe the Coens have said in an interview. It's really just an unconnected parable to help you frame the following story, which, in itself, is an incredibly well-crafted parable. Think about the film as a parable attempting to impart advice and wisdom. Parables don't always have clear meanings or resolutions, and can have very different things taken out of them by different audiences who are looking for/expecting difference things or have different life experiences. This film is very, very much the same. It's Shroedinger's cat, yes, but it's also the goy's teeth, and the Rabbi/Dybbuk.

    I just rewatched the scene and don't know what you're getting at with the Clive thing unless it's an extension of the red-headed neighbor thing.

    other than that I like your ending there.... also I like the presentation of the goy's teeth, how the rabbi is telling a story with himself as a character. and the story is the message, but he also gives the message.

    Variable on
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  • DougDoug Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    why are you censoring "fuck"

    are you afraid to say "fuck" out loud

    Habit. Most forums censor.

    I saw Moon and I liked it. Not much happened, but it evolved in ways that I can relate with.

    Anyway. I also saw Antichrist. Dafoe always does a great job, but in this movie he's f**king around with very weird chick. I'm not sure, but I think the moral of this movie is:
    Stay away from weird chicks or your penis will bleed.

    ...the ending was brutal. I've never screamed like that before.

    ..but its Charlotte Gainsbourg. I just don't see how the guy had a chance.

    Doug on
    I warned her.. it's not casual sex if I'm wearing a top hat.
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  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    I will watch Moon soon too

    Its an amazing movie. I dont usually tear up but there's a couple of scenes that brought the tears for me.

    Jokerman on
  • HeatwaveHeatwave Come, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    My favourite movies of last year were

    Up
    Star Trek
    Zombieland
    The Hangover
    Drag me to hell
    Inglorious Basterds
    Also: I love you man

    Heatwave on
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I love you, man was a lot more entertaining than I thought it would be.

    Dragkonias on
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    I will watch Moon soon too
    Good!

    SithDrummer on
    It's an easy game to hate
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Precious, because its about poor people, and Basterds, because it's about Nazis. Nazis in particular always get Oscars.

    Yar on
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Precious, because its about poor people, and Basterds, because it's about Nazis. Nazis in particular always get Oscars.

    Plus Basterds was actually really good too.
    I love you, man was a lot more entertaining than I thought it would be.
    This. It was quite funny. Also, it had Rush in it, which is always good.
    I don't know if I'd consider it "good", but it was definitely entertaining.

    TubularLuggage on
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    I will watch Moon soon too

    Its an amazing movie. I dont usually tear up but there's a couple of scenes that brought the tears for me.

    I liked the idea of Moon more than the movie itself. There were parts where I was tempted to start fast forwarding until I saw something happen on screen.
    The need for the clones confused me, as the guy didn't seem to do shit, and they had a fully sentient robot anyways

    tinwhiskers on
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  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Precious, because its about poor minorities. . .

    fixered

    Atomika on
  • edited January 2010
    I loved District 9 because it was basically a Metroid movie without Nintendo actually handing over the IP. Seriously, if they combined Metroid 3 and 4 and turned it into a movie District 9 is pretty much what would come out, just in a different setting.

    Opium on
  • green-eyesgreen-eyes Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    We need to discuss more of Moon.

    My favourite part of Moon was GERTY. The fact that he's a complete inversion of HAL makes him such an awesome character.

    green-eyes on
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