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I'm pretty torn up. I'd love some relationship advice... [update page 5 & 6]
pantspanic
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hi there, forums. I'm giving you a go on a good friend's advice. She always liked it here. Yeah, it's long. tl;dr at end.
I've known this girl for seven years. We dated for 2 years in college, had 4 years of a an on/off emotionally turbulent clusterfuck, and the past year we've been dating long distance and it's been wonderful. The 4 year clusterfuck was completely me. I was in grad school for half of it, pissed off, and cavalier in ways that make me shudder now. January of 2009 I got my shit together mentally and made a decision to give this relationship a real go. It involved me making a lot of unhappy observations about myself, not letting myself look away from all the ugly parts. It also involved us making the dedication to drive each weekend to see one another (we live 2-2.5 hours apart). Completely changed a few aspects of my life, but it was worth it. I think we're wonderful together, and I have no doubt she does as well. We're discussing vacations together and trying to find a way to get to the same city.
So now for the part I don't know how to deal with:
The day after Christmas, she came down to visit me at my parents' place. That night, we went out drinking with one of my best friends (known since junior high, was his groomsman, game with him a few times a week, he's recently divorced and dating a girl on the west coast that's great for him) and his brother. I've known them both about an equal time, and his brother was always heavily part of our group. We spent a good amount of time at a brewpub, and I was the driver for the night to take us to our next destination. I drive us over, his brother and I in the front seat, my friend and girlfriend in the back. They were sitting very close to one another, almost light snuggling, but I've seen it before and thought nothing of it. I know they had been confidants in each other during their respective hard relationship times; her with me in my years of indecision (though it is odd that one of my best friends probably got to hear a bunch of "stuff" about me), and he in the slow death of his marriage.
We got to this shitty bar/pool hall about 10 minutes from my house. At some point, my girlfriend goes out to have a cigarette and my friend accompanies her, and his brother and I are chatting. He says something along the lines of "Yo does that annoy you that my brother was up against your girlfriend?". Of course, I say no. Next: "You know they fucked, right?"
Dammit.
No. No I did not know that. Apparently it was a few years ago, maybe 2006, the brother didn't remember for certain. The brother told me because he thought it was the moral thing to do. My friend had a recent falling out with his best man, as his current girlfriend was his best man's recent semi-long term relationship. His brother, having also known the best man for a long time, was not really happy about that either. But his implored that I not mention anything about this to my friend and my girlfriend. He told me because he thought I should know, but he was also betraying his brother's confidence, and, in his words, he didn't want to have the relationship with him be total shit for the next 5 years. To put this in context, we all game regularly, maybe 3-4 nights/week. It's an important social "thing" we've all been doing for years, and that we all find value in. It's like the people you get together with after work (i think).
So, from somewhere around midnight to maybe 4 in the morning, I kept silent, and have kept silent because I don't want to fuck him over totally. He suggested I say I heard it from another guy we occasionally game with, but I said that I didn't think another layer of deception would do any good.
I thanked him for being more honest with me than my friend or girlfriend or, admittedly, more than I have been with other people in the past.
In all likelihood it was a period where my girlfriend and I were on the outs, and I might have been a pissed off, inattentive, nightmare grad student at the time. So, not cheating... But...
This is where I don't know how to react, and I've been thinking a flood of things. All of a sudden their level of interaction and certain comments make sense, e.g. level of physicality, he mentioning randomly that my girlfriend is hot, etc. Can I be pissed that it happened? No... no if my friend was some random dude that she slept with. Her and I have both slept with other people during our on/off time, but not each other's good friends... Also, I had thought that my girlfriend and I told each other of all of our past "other people". At least I always had. This lie of omission on both of their parts feels a lot like dishonesty, and I feel lied to and embarrassed and... sometimes in a way I feel like she's slipping away because all of a sudden there's this gaping thing she didn't tell me...
But did I even have a right to know? To be told this information? I want to say that I expected a better level of 1) non-stupidity and 2) honesty from both of them. But her and I weren't dating, and both of them were adults, though adults should take a bit more responsibility for their actions, and the truth. I'm sure that there was greater value to both of them in keeping it secret than telling, but still... I feel so fucking stupid.
I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing, but I think of the alternate-universe-me that never knew and think "That poor, ignorant fucker."
I feel like, if I want to continue a relationship and friendship with an honesty I thought was there, then this needs to come out between us. I feel like I should ask her about it, but everything was going well... I had a really great time with her over xmas and she's been wonderful for me and we're making this long distance thing work despite the stress and expense associated with it. And then there's the knowledge I'd consciously be fucking over the person who was honest enough to give me this info. And who knows how my friend and I would be. I feel bad for my friend's brother; I feel that my friend telling him shifted some of the moral weight of continued silence onto his shoulders.
Dammit. I don't know what to do.
tl;dr: Ok, girlfriend problem. We were on and off for a long time, currently seriously on, and it turns out during an off time she banged my best friend. I only found out a few weeks ago from my best friend's brother, who I also consider a friend. The brother asked me not to tell the best friend or anyone else. What should I do?
I've known this girl for seven years. We dated for 2 years in college, had 4 years of a an on/off emotionally turbulent clusterfuck, and the past year we've been dating long distance and it's been wonderful. The 4 year clusterfuck was completely me. I was in grad school for half of it, pissed off, and cavalier in ways that make me shudder now. January of 2009 I got my shit together mentally and made a decision to give this relationship a real go. It involved me making a lot of unhappy observations about myself, not letting myself look away from all the ugly parts. It also involved us making the dedication to drive each weekend to see one another (we live 2-2.5 hours apart). Completely changed a few aspects of my life, but it was worth it. I think we're wonderful together, and I have no doubt she does as well. We're discussing vacations together and trying to find a way to get to the same city.
So now for the part I don't know how to deal with:
The day after Christmas, she came down to visit me at my parents' place. That night, we went out drinking with one of my best friends (known since junior high, was his groomsman, game with him a few times a week, he's recently divorced and dating a girl on the west coast that's great for him) and his brother. I've known them both about an equal time, and his brother was always heavily part of our group. We spent a good amount of time at a brewpub, and I was the driver for the night to take us to our next destination. I drive us over, his brother and I in the front seat, my friend and girlfriend in the back. They were sitting very close to one another, almost light snuggling, but I've seen it before and thought nothing of it. I know they had been confidants in each other during their respective hard relationship times; her with me in my years of indecision (though it is odd that one of my best friends probably got to hear a bunch of "stuff" about me), and he in the slow death of his marriage.
We got to this shitty bar/pool hall about 10 minutes from my house. At some point, my girlfriend goes out to have a cigarette and my friend accompanies her, and his brother and I are chatting. He says something along the lines of "Yo does that annoy you that my brother was up against your girlfriend?". Of course, I say no. Next: "You know they fucked, right?"
Dammit.
No. No I did not know that. Apparently it was a few years ago, maybe 2006, the brother didn't remember for certain. The brother told me because he thought it was the moral thing to do. My friend had a recent falling out with his best man, as his current girlfriend was his best man's recent semi-long term relationship. His brother, having also known the best man for a long time, was not really happy about that either. But his implored that I not mention anything about this to my friend and my girlfriend. He told me because he thought I should know, but he was also betraying his brother's confidence, and, in his words, he didn't want to have the relationship with him be total shit for the next 5 years. To put this in context, we all game regularly, maybe 3-4 nights/week. It's an important social "thing" we've all been doing for years, and that we all find value in. It's like the people you get together with after work (i think).
So, from somewhere around midnight to maybe 4 in the morning, I kept silent, and have kept silent because I don't want to fuck him over totally. He suggested I say I heard it from another guy we occasionally game with, but I said that I didn't think another layer of deception would do any good.
I thanked him for being more honest with me than my friend or girlfriend or, admittedly, more than I have been with other people in the past.
In all likelihood it was a period where my girlfriend and I were on the outs, and I might have been a pissed off, inattentive, nightmare grad student at the time. So, not cheating... But...
This is where I don't know how to react, and I've been thinking a flood of things. All of a sudden their level of interaction and certain comments make sense, e.g. level of physicality, he mentioning randomly that my girlfriend is hot, etc. Can I be pissed that it happened? No... no if my friend was some random dude that she slept with. Her and I have both slept with other people during our on/off time, but not each other's good friends... Also, I had thought that my girlfriend and I told each other of all of our past "other people". At least I always had. This lie of omission on both of their parts feels a lot like dishonesty, and I feel lied to and embarrassed and... sometimes in a way I feel like she's slipping away because all of a sudden there's this gaping thing she didn't tell me...
But did I even have a right to know? To be told this information? I want to say that I expected a better level of 1) non-stupidity and 2) honesty from both of them. But her and I weren't dating, and both of them were adults, though adults should take a bit more responsibility for their actions, and the truth. I'm sure that there was greater value to both of them in keeping it secret than telling, but still... I feel so fucking stupid.
I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing, but I think of the alternate-universe-me that never knew and think "That poor, ignorant fucker."
I feel like, if I want to continue a relationship and friendship with an honesty I thought was there, then this needs to come out between us. I feel like I should ask her about it, but everything was going well... I had a really great time with her over xmas and she's been wonderful for me and we're making this long distance thing work despite the stress and expense associated with it. And then there's the knowledge I'd consciously be fucking over the person who was honest enough to give me this info. And who knows how my friend and I would be. I feel bad for my friend's brother; I feel that my friend telling him shifted some of the moral weight of continued silence onto his shoulders.
Dammit. I don't know what to do.
tl;dr: Ok, girlfriend problem. We were on and off for a long time, currently seriously on, and it turns out during an off time she banged my best friend. I only found out a few weeks ago from my best friend's brother, who I also consider a friend. The brother asked me not to tell the best friend or anyone else. What should I do?
pantspanic on
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Find a new friend.
But that's just me..
Neither of them seem that concerned about your feelings. Not a sign of a real friend or girlfriend.
Confront her without being confrontational. Be honest. Give her the benefit of the doubt. Above all, communicate about it. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.
But more to the point, are these 2 people that you trust. You're going to be the best judge of character for them out of all of us here. How likely do you think they are to be actively hiding it rather than thinking it's just not a big deal?
Even after all that, what would you call the best time as a good friend or girlfriend, to tell your buddy/bf that you did what they did?
More likely than anything they either think nothing of it or they just never found the right time to make that announcement to you, and who could blame them.
I think the physical act makes sense given "emotionally turbulent clusterfuck" and not telling you also makes sense considering how torn up you are about it. They could reasonably have been trying to hide the truth from you so you don't have to know about it.
I guess it really depends on how you feel about it, though. I can see why each of the things happened, and if you are ok with it, you could just acknowledge to them that you found out while saying something like, "but I know it happened a long time ago and the past is past."
If you really can't live with it, though, you'll eventually come to a confrontation about it, so you may as well plan it out as well as you can. You do have to keep in mind, though: is it worth breaking up with this person for an act they did 3 years ago when they weren't even dating you?
My feeling is no, but it's up to you.
Especially those last couple of sentences. I doubt they are actively conspiring to hide some super-secret romance from you. Most likely your girlfriend (who was NOT your girlfriend at the time) was also having emotional issues due to you being an emotional clusterfuck. I don't think it was cool for your friend to have slept with her, but you cannot blame her because she in no way could've known that you guys would even end up back together.
I know it may bother you now to see that they are close, but I think that's probably due to the fact that your friend more than likely helped her get through some really tough times. I doubt it has anything to do with them having sex.
And like eternalbl said, she chose YOU. Not him. She's with you. End of story.
I guarantee she will tell you that it was something that happened years ago, it means nothing now, she didn't see the point in bringing it up because it would just hurt you, etc etc, pretty much everything everyone has said so far.
Looks like I get to return the favor, because yes. You really should tell your gf you know. Hopefully you can get over this and still be happy with her because you make it sound like a very good relationship.
As far as your buddy's brother is concerned, he's overstepped his bounds telling you this. Don't be concerned with how he ends up coming out of all this because he shouldn't have told you in the first place.
What I'm about to say is probably gonna get me a lot of flack, but I'll say it anyways: There are some things a person just doesn't need to know, and this was a good example of that. Of course, in the interest of keeping the thread on track that is my opinion only and there are people who would disagree, so think about your situation for yourself and decide whether that is accurate for your view of the world or not.
Mostly the resolution of this issue will depend on how strongly you feel about it. There is probably nothing that either of them can say to you to make things better if it is something that is a big deal for you. So, you need to talk to them (one at a time, probably) and have it out.
Incidentally, to me this is a much bigger issue as it relates to your friend than it is to your GF.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
In this situation I'd probably agree with you, but the cat's out of the bag and it's time to deal with it.
Well, for one the friend and girlfriend are apparently inappropriately physical and flirtatious (that's according to the OP, who might not be the best judge of that at this point, but who tells their best friend that their girlfriend he's secretly banged is hot? That's... odd), and second of all the OP had thought he and his partner had been open, honest, and forthcoming about their prior flings during this period. It hurts to learn about truths omitted.
The two were well within their rights to have screwed around while nobody was involved in a relationship, but the behavior since then hasn't exactly been ideal.
It doesn't. He's upset that two people who were supposedly very close to him kept something of considerable importance from him for so long.
Because you were an emotionally turbulent fuckstick. You admit this. After awhile of not mentioning it, it probably became more habit than conspiracy.
Dealing with it:
Seems pretty simple - if you can't get the idea out of your head that she fucked someone else, someone you knew, then end it. I dont want to hear any melodramatic crap about how wonderful you two are together. Either you can take the idea or you can't. End of story. Pretending it doesnt bother you when it actually does is just going to explode like a bomb later on.
Food for thought:
If you need ice for your ego, odds are, you are better in the sack than he is.
Either way, talking to your girlfriend about it and your insecure feelings, whether or not they are valid, should help to some extent. When you do discuss it, think about what you're trying to accomplish. My guess is that your end goal is to find out why she didn't tell you and then maybe to ask her to cut out some of the physical interaction with your friend for at least a while since it makes you uncomfortable now. At the same time, you want her to know that you're not mad at either of them for what they did, but maybe a little confused as why they didn't tell you.
Try to make sure you're calm when you have this conversation.
Edit: About the brother - don't worry about him. I know you feel that he did you a favor in telling you, but he had to realize what that meant unless he was willfully stirring up drama. Pinning it on another guy is drama as is your pretending you don't know. In a best case scenario, don't mention how you found out unless your girlfriend asks.
Pretty much that. What was described in the OP about snuggling in the back of the car, etc. set my "banging behind the back" radar off.
That's what I would do. Saves a lot of headaches.
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No. No you didn't.
If you're in an "off" period you are not dating. She doesn't have to come and confess that she dated while you two weren't together, it's none of your goddamn business.
This dude's brother stepped out of line in telling you what basically amounts to hearsay - you have no idea if he's telling the truth or if he's just trying to fuck with your head. But now that it's in your mind and messing around with your brain, you have to decide whether to let it fester or actually ask your girlfriend if it's the truth or not.
My advice: let it go, it was none of your business and it may not be completely true.
2) I also don't initiate physical contact with them.
Maybe I'm a bit old-school, but there are some things you just don't do, and those are some of them. Frankly, I find it disrespectful to my friends, their significant others, and their relationships. If you wouldn't flirt with or be physically intimate with a girl you barely know when she tells you that she has a boyfriend, why would you do it when you know both parties involved? For many people, only accepting the blatantly obvious at face value is not appropriate in all situations, particularly when it comes to relationships. And for a person to toe that line and use that as an excuse for such behavior is also inappropriate and shows a lack of respect for others' feelings and relationships. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread.
There's a very good chance that they're actively hiding it from you. I highly doubt that they are from the, "OMG it was no big deal so we just don't ever think or talk about it ever again" school. I don't think that ever happens, particularly when everyone who was involved are still actively hanging out with each other. Frankly, it takes active willpower to avoid speaking about stuff like that just in everyday conversation. I don't know about you, but my friends and I shoot the shit about past girlfriends, dates, hook-ups, etc. all the time, and we bring that stuff up even when we aren't actually having "serious conversations".
So if they're actively hiding it from you, the real question is why. Unfortunately, we can't answer that for you. I would never hook up with a friend's ex - and I have had plenty of opportunity, generally being "the shoulder" in my social circles. But if I did, I would at least let him know first that something was happening. And if it was a one-time spur-of-the-moment thing, I'd let him know afterward and be honest about whether or not I would be pursuing something longer-term. If I were in a relationship with a girl and I hooked up with her friend while we were broken up, I'd be honest with her about it at as well, and make it clear that nothing would ever happen again in the future. Even if I never told her, I certainly wouldn't flirt with the friend, and I'd avoid anything that would make it look like I was interested, given the situation.
Sorry, I don't want to make this about me, but I'm just sort of using the first-person to give you some perspective. Maybe your friends aren't the same way, and they see what they're doing as harmless flirting. But I think that's indicative more of their own lack of respect for your feelings and perceptions than any legitimate argument on their side.
Especially if they haven't told you anything. I mean, if they were not telling you to "protect" you (a dubious argument under almost every single situation), why would they engage in behavior that would make you suspicious at all? I hate to say it, but it's already been said in this thread - there's a chance that they could very well still be hooking up. Or at the very least, both are still interested in each other but have not actually done anything beyond [less than] harmless flirting/touching/etc. Which is its own form of emotional cheating - making yourself actively available while being in a relationship with someone else.
If I were you I'd talk to your girlfriend first. Just tell her you've noticed that she and your friend can be very flirtatious and touchy-feely, and that sometimes it bothers you. That should be enough. If she actively argues with you, dismisses your feelings, or tells you what you want to hear but continues in the behavior, I think you have your answer. Even if nothing was going on, I doubt you'll want to be in a relationship with someone like that.
Then, maybe you can talk to your buddy about it and say pretty much the same thing. You've noticed some stuff and you'd appreciate it if he could just back off a little. How he reacts will tell you all you need to know about your friendship.
There's no need to bring up the brother or the fact that you know that they slept together. Ideally, both of them should come clean to you, but if they never do and in the meantime manage to adjust their behavior towards each other, you need to be honest with yourself about whether or not you can live with that. Unfortunately, while honesty is usually the best policy, many people will take some things with them to the grave, even if it's an open secret. They usually do it because of guilt, shame, or fear, and directly confronting them with such things usually results in a bad outcome.
As for the brother, it really doesn't matter what his motivations are. I wouldn't be surprised if he was telling you because he honestly thought you should know and he thought that's what a real friend does. I don't think he overstepped his bounds at all, especially if you have your own friendship with him.
PS - Get tested. Might want to have your girl get tested too.
Let her responses dictate where this thing goes. If she comes clean and is re-assuring to you that there is absolutely nothing going on, and you feel it to be true, then great let bygones be bygones. Life will move on. But if she denies it, and you don't believe her(because it really is hearsay at this point), then it's time to have some serious conversations. As has already been mentioned if they're being inappropriately physical, that might set off some alarms. I would honestly find my SO cuddling up to some other dude in the back seat on the inappropriate side. And your buddy being overly flirtations, presumably not in a humorous or "just friends" way(I may be wrong), is completely and utterly inappropriate. He needs to respect boundaries. There's friendly flirting, and then there's inappropriate flirting. If he's crossing the line just have a chat with him as a friend. Bring it up casually, and see if he's willing to dial things down a bit without putting up a fight.
Really it all boils down to how much do you love this girl? If she did do this, is it really that big of an issue? If she tries to deny it and you don't feel satisfied by her answers, is it a dealbreaker?
Personally I don't think her actions 3 years ago during a period you guys were "off" should factor in to how much you care about her now. But the fact she potentially did it with your best friend kind of sounds like revenge sex, and you might pay more attention when they're around each other. As you never know, it could still be going on. Just don't let it dominate your thoughts, otherwise you're going to dig yourself an emotional pit you wont get out of for awhile. Especially if you're wrong but don't believe that you are.
Edit: About the friend's bro who told you. I wouldn't say he over-stepped his boundaries. He knew something about your girlfriend and your friend that he probably figured you should know about. Frankly I would have done the same thing. If someone I was dating fucked a buddy of mine during a period we were "off" I'd like to know. Not to be upset about it, but just to know. Especially if there's a level of physicality between the two of them while we're together.
Your best friend is a TOTAL DICK. He obviously knew that you would have a problem with this, but he did it anyway because he figured you would never find out.
He knew he could get away with it, so he did it. FUCK THAT.
You can rationalize it all you want, we weren't really dating, blah blah blah, but the point is someone that is supposed to have your back did something he knew would hurt you because he thought he could get away with it and he wanted to get his dick wet.
Tell him to go fuck himself.
Also, fuck her for not telling you.
-Your friend is a fucking Dick. Sure you guys were broken up at the time, and yeah you probably shouldn't care because you weren't technically together at the time, yadda yadda, but he's supposed to be your best friend! You and your girlfriend had a history of breaking up and getting back together, and I'm going to assume that he knew this already. You were broken up, and apparently an 'emotionally turbulent clusterfuck'... he should have been there for you...not fuckin' your ex girlfriends.
-And now they're all touchy feely, he's calling your GF 'hot', and it's bothering you.(Hell with that new found knowledge, I'd be bothered too.) If it's bothering you, confront them about it. Seriously. Don't brood on it, or let it pile up inside. It'll only make things worse. And for the love of God, don't get all passive-aggressive about it.
Your friend is a Smug Bastard, IMO. Just sayin'.
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I do think you should bring it up, to both of them, separately, if it's bothering you. I had a similar situation, wherein my girlfriend and I broke up, and months later I found out my best friend had sex with her within a few weeks of us breaking up. Shitty thing to do, but what really bothered me was the fact that he not only hid it, but denied it when I brought it up. Then I brought it up to her, she admitted it, and apologized cause it was a shitty thing to do, and it was just a one-time drunken heat of the moment thing. Her and I stayed friends cause she was honest, but my best friend and I have never been the same since I talked to him again and told him that I knew, and that I knew he lied.
If it's the sex with someone else that bothers you, she probably had sex with other people as well, do those bother you? If it's that they didn't tell you, well, they don't have to, but I believe morally should. I think you should bring it up with each of them individually to see what they say about it, preferably soon after each other as if one of them lies, you don't want to give them time to tell the other one so that they can collaborate a fake story. But that's just what I would do.
Regardless of how you feel about this girl, girls come and go, that's the facts of life. But best friends are supposed to be the ones who are always there through thick and thin. Just like you were there for this guy during his painful divorce.
So to summarize, during an off period she hooked up with someone, that happens in a breakup, completely normal. But seriously fuck the guy who is your best friend and never told you about it. That is about as big a breach of trust between friends as it gets.
Thoughts:
1) Assuming it's not still ongoing, it was 3 years ago and you were on a break.
2) They are still way too close and it may be worth mentioning to your girlfriend, even if you mention nothing else, that their physical closeness is bothering you and you would appreciate it if they'd stop.
3) The brother is a douche and you should drop him from your life like he's hot.
4) Once again assuming it's not ongoing, people change a lot in 3 years. You know you did, and your friend and gf probably have as well, so if you care about them and can find it in your heart you should probably give them the benefit of the doubt.
5) No one will blame you if you take a looong vacation from every single one of them.
There's also the fact that it's okay to fuck somebody on an off period, but not okay to use your knowledge of the health of a relationship to get with a girl (full breakups exempted), especially when you know the girl's likes, dislikes, worries about the relationship, reason for the off period, and other privileged information you only know because you're friends with the couple (if he had been a friend from her side, it would be slightly better), making the friend the one at fault. Now, he had his own relationship problems, so it might have been a heat of the moment fling because they could sympathize in each other (essentially accidentally exploiting each others' insecurities because they had the same things on their minds), in which case they just didn't talk about it because thinking about the period causes them both pain, but that makes talking to them even more crucial because they need to talk about it and get some closure.
Ok, warm forum fuzzies aside, here's some disjointed clarification of my concerns:
The lie of omission and dishonesty on both of their sides is the main issue. It would be affecting me less if it was something that was brought out in the open shortly after, but the fact that it wasn't... Well, it's painful, and amplifies the other issues a bit. I had an immense amount of trust in both of these people.
Both her and I slept with other people during our "off" times. The lone fact she slept with someone is not an issue. The lack of disclosure is small issue, and the lack of disclosure coupled with who it was amplifies it.
I definitely agree that, since we were broken up, she had every right to sleep with whoever she wanted. The choice, though, showed a lack of concern. I do not believe it was all "ok" based on the technicality that her and I weren't dating at the time; context and history seem important. I would hope that people you are close to would consider those things...
I am not sure of the motivations or exact situation on either of their parts, and I feel that I may not be satisfied until I talk to both of them.
I'm fairly confident it's not going on now. Of course, I can't be 100% sure of that and would probably ask the question regardless, but due to what I know of the various people and their situations it'd be highly doubtful that it continued. If I had to choose, my guess would be that it was all a one-off. But, as I said, the lie of omission of this likely one-off bothers me.
Yes, their physicality bothers me now. It never did before. And, if I end up talking to them, I will most likely bring it up.
I have every intention of being calm when talking to them. Being able to maintain normal interaction the night I was told was (imho) an exercise of zen on my part. But I'm not really a volatile guy to begin with. Never been in a fight, and testosterone-soaked physical confrontation was not ever a consideration here. The fact I was told has given me, at least, a lot of time to be able to think about things with a calm mind.
The one thing, you should absolutely remember, is to have and idea of what you want to convey in your talk. Don't go into it thinking you'll just say that you know and go from there. Don't get distracted by things that come up that aren't as important to you. Know what you think is the most important and what you would like to happen, and stick to these topics.
All this sort of "advice" is going to do is turn him into a raging, high-blood pressure moron when it comes time to talk this out; it's not going to help him resolve the situation at all, nor is it going to make him amenable to listening.
I get it. People around here have had bad experiences which left a bad taste in their mouths about bad girls/boys. That doesn't mean the exact same thing is happening here. It's generally not a good idea to counsel people to go off the deep end; moderation is kinda a good thing. Of course that's MY experience.
1. Fuck the girl for doing the deed with your 'friend'.
2. Fuck the 'friend' for doing it with your girl.
You need new friends.
If you want people to game with, try penandpapergames.com
and if a chick is capable of doing the deed with YOUR friend and not tell you, makes you wonder what else she hasn't told you?
Self-analyze a bit. Do you really think you're going to be able to handle this every time all of you are together?
Any discussion will boil down to "i don't like the two of you hanging together. You need to stop." and there will be drama.
I would be creeped the fuck out if my girlfriend were being all buddy buddy with a guy she'd fucked but hadn't told me about.
And then slinking off with him away from me during group stuff.
And cuddling in the back seat of my car while I'm driving them around.
Call me the jealous type, but there is a point where being non-jealous just turns into being gullible.
I'm not saying she's screwing him again. But she certainly isn't putting your relationship first.
No, you don't have a right to know who she's slept with unless she's putting your nuts at risk.
A good friend would tell you the truth, but maybe he's scared that you might flip out on him. I can't explain away the flirtation and stuff.
My advice is simple: Be frank with your friend. You REALLY don't like it when he inappropriately compliments your girlfriend. You don't want them alone together or when they flirt together. Just say you've had enough of it. You dont even have to reveal that you know that they fucked.
Edit: also, ceres is right. This was 3 years ago. About the same time you were acting like a jackass in your relationship, is she not allowed to have been the same way?
The actions he described make it sound like there's something a lot more recent than "one time 3 years ago" going on.
It's shady and it's totally his business if they're still acting inappropriately towards eachother in front of him.