Notes
1) Blue/green tunnels join up with each other.
2) Yellow tunnel goes into B superstructure.
3) Scale is probably wonky in places.
The map follows gravel pit logic. There are two resistance areas per route to point, then a half-sheltered point cap opportunity. The back lane that runs along the three-quarters mark (coloured blue/green) connects approaches to combat zones for A and B.
The large blue/green tunnel will have trace cover in, but not much.
The push to cap C is deliberately exposed.
A is themed for more interior fighting, whilst B is designed (I have the sketches but cba to finalize them unless xzzy likes this concept) to be a point on a wooden platform á la Egypt, in an open-air but walled superstructure. There is another entrance to B if you carry on to the left of the marked stairs.
Class breakdowns:
Sniper - Prominent sniper box gives visibility to first courtyard and some of point A. Quick repositioning options but vulnerable to explosives (esp. pipes), counter-snipers (more so than usual). Arduous reposition from mid to B, but strong lateral sniping points.
Soldier - Unknown quantity. Rocket jumping too useful, or not useful enough?
Spy - Should be happy. Plenty of cover, corners.
Medic - See spy.
Heavy - A lot of potential for power in tunnels and close quarters, vulnerable on long back alley.
Engineer - Some sweet engy spots, but maybe not enough. Not sure. Only need 2-3, right?
Demoman - Should be fine, maybe a little too fine.
Scout - Some double jump opportunities, probably would excel more as hit and run.
Pyro - some nasty drop-down traps to be set, and several good ambush points. Will probably like the indoor bit.
Primary concerns:
Rocket jumping and what is accessible by it
Engineer-suitable positions
Demoman effectiveness biases
If anyone wants to bring their class expertise to the map that'd be pretty great, but bear in mind it's rough and not perfect scale.
e: It's hard to tell since it's not scaled and I can't see sentry gun sightlines but initial analysis sees 8-10 plausible sentry gun positions for RED, 4 of which are viable mainstays to protect points and the other 6 being support sentries for the main defense.
Several possible forward teleporter locations for blue but again it's hard to judge how effective those'll be right now.
One thing I notice right away, Flippy, is that the red spawn being right next to C like that means blue would have a hell of a time taking/holding the point unless they spawn camp. But like you said, rough and not to scale. I imagine if it was farther back, maybe had a fence similar to Dustbowl 2-2's design, it would work great.
Throw in some cover for BLU on the way to B and that looks like a very interesting map.
I like it.. I think visibility will be a problem, from a framerate perspective. B is fine, but A and C will have trouble, they'll be able to "see" (from the game's perspective) 75% of the map, and impose a huge framerate hit.
Moving C into a private area might be neccessary. Another option would be to have the "sniper box" tower thingy stretch across the map, dividing it in two.
But the concept is cool. A map with lots of things to climb up to and good cover on the ground is good fun. I think snipers might actually have too much trouble trying to make a living from that box.. rocket jumping and pipes will make his life hell.
also Quaz I checked the config I just set up (m0re's high fps) and jesus fuck it was at 66 that can't be right can it?
Default is either 100 or 1.00. I think it's 100 if it's set to 66, but it shouldn't be crashing your game.
Edit: Depending on how freaked out you are, you might want to try the solution I posted in the SE++ about putting +autoconfig in your advanced startup settings to get back to default. Then you could try mores config stuff one at a time so you know what's crashing your game. How is it crashing? Sound looping? Just exiting to desktop like you shut it down abruptly? You might want to check the game's resolution settings or something. Look through the config and see if there's anything that's like, "Set to your resolution or half your ram or blah blah blah".
Quaz and Wally on
0
GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
edited February 2010
C is way too close to the spawns there
In gravel pit, red needs to fight its way up a tower which is a good 10 or so seconds away from their spawn doors to reach C
hey in the netgraph what the hell is lerp and why is mine at 20.0 Ms and flashing red
the game keeps crashing to the desktop and and this is super frustrating
Did you mess with something call cl_interp? If so, maybe try setting it to 1.00? Is that default? I forget.
Default is 0.1. There is some other voodoo to determine optimal settings due to other variables, and maybe he just changed one of those and not the other. 20ms is definitely a non-default lerp value but he may be using the default rate with it.
Xzzy, do you want me to go ahead and draw up the inside plan of point B?
Since you're the only person actually doing this sort of thing, sure.
Don't invest your life into it though if you don't want, I just wanted to get people to start talking map design instead of just bitching that a map sucks. Usually people are pretty good at saying they don't like something, and shut up real fast when asked to clarify what they do like.
I do think the concept has legs, and if I ever get around to making push style map, I might pillage you for ideas.
Xzzy, this is just fun for me really, though... if you don't want a push map, what map do you want?
I think push maps are great, but I think payload is greater.
Which is what I'm working on now, a payload map. I do want to do a push map later on, and you can guarantee I'll be coming back to your post at that point.
Cool. I trust then that you have your pl design nailed down?
As a concept, yeah. I've been working on it off and on since the summer, testing designs. I haven't done a TF2 map yet so I consider most of the last 6 months study and research.
I got a good plan now, have a lot of the basic geometry blocked out. Spending the rest of the week dealing with lines of sight, routes, and cover. Hope to have a playable alpha this weekend.
Posts
Spoilered for gigantic:
Design Principals
Notes
1) Blue/green tunnels join up with each other.
2) Yellow tunnel goes into B superstructure.
3) Scale is probably wonky in places.
The map follows gravel pit logic. There are two resistance areas per route to point, then a half-sheltered point cap opportunity. The back lane that runs along the three-quarters mark (coloured blue/green) connects approaches to combat zones for A and B.
The large blue/green tunnel will have trace cover in, but not much.
The push to cap C is deliberately exposed.
A is themed for more interior fighting, whilst B is designed (I have the sketches but cba to finalize them unless xzzy likes this concept) to be a point on a wooden platform á la Egypt, in an open-air but walled superstructure. There is another entrance to B if you carry on to the left of the marked stairs.
Class breakdowns:
Sniper - Prominent sniper box gives visibility to first courtyard and some of point A. Quick repositioning options but vulnerable to explosives (esp. pipes), counter-snipers (more so than usual). Arduous reposition from mid to B, but strong lateral sniping points.
Soldier - Unknown quantity. Rocket jumping too useful, or not useful enough?
Spy - Should be happy. Plenty of cover, corners.
Medic - See spy.
Heavy - A lot of potential for power in tunnels and close quarters, vulnerable on long back alley.
Engineer - Some sweet engy spots, but maybe not enough. Not sure. Only need 2-3, right?
Demoman - Should be fine, maybe a little too fine.
Scout - Some double jump opportunities, probably would excel more as hit and run.
Pyro - some nasty drop-down traps to be set, and several good ambush points. Will probably like the indoor bit.
Primary concerns:
If anyone wants to bring their class expertise to the map that'd be pretty great, but bear in mind it's rough and not perfect scale.
I'll check it out in depth shortly
e: It's hard to tell since it's not scaled and I can't see sentry gun sightlines but initial analysis sees 8-10 plausible sentry gun positions for RED, 4 of which are viable mainstays to protect points and the other 6 being support sentries for the main defense.
Several possible forward teleporter locations for blue but again it's hard to judge how effective those'll be right now.
Throw in some cover for BLU on the way to B and that looks like a very interesting map.
Moving C into a private area might be neccessary. Another option would be to have the "sniper box" tower thingy stretch across the map, dividing it in two.
But the concept is cool. A map with lots of things to climb up to and good cover on the ground is good fun. I think snipers might actually have too much trouble trying to make a living from that box.. rocket jumping and pipes will make his life hell.
the game keeps crashing to the desktop and and this is super frustrating
Within 30 seconds, there were teleporters all over reds second point
Within 2 minutes, the reds were overwhelmed as they found their first point attacked from both sides and their second point full of sentries.
Engi Corp Hoo Rah
Did you mess with something call cl_interp? If so, maybe try setting it to 1.00? Is that default? I forget.
also Quaz I checked the config I just set up (m0re's high fps) and jesus fuck it was at 66 that can't be right can it?
Default is either 100 or 1.00. I think it's 100 if it's set to 66, but it shouldn't be crashing your game.
Edit: Depending on how freaked out you are, you might want to try the solution I posted in the SE++ about putting +autoconfig in your advanced startup settings to get back to default. Then you could try mores config stuff one at a time so you know what's crashing your game. How is it crashing? Sound looping? Just exiting to desktop like you shut it down abruptly? You might want to check the game's resolution settings or something. Look through the config and see if there's anything that's like, "Set to your resolution or half your ram or blah blah blah".
In gravel pit, red needs to fight its way up a tower which is a good 10 or so seconds away from their spawn doors to reach C
Default is 0.1. There is some other voodoo to determine optimal settings due to other variables, and maybe he just changed one of those and not the other. 20ms is definitely a non-default lerp value but he may be using the default rate with it.
EDIT: It's not 66 for his highfps script. I believe his cmdrate and updaterate is 66, but his cl_interp was 0.03 last I checked...about a week ago.
E: nope
fuck this
Details like that don't matter a whole lot.. they can be adjusted during development. Push red spawn back a bit, presto, problem solved.
As a concept it's still viable. The only real problem it has is that big central tower creates a huge performance hit.
Since you're the only person actually doing this sort of thing, sure.
Don't invest your life into it though if you don't want, I just wanted to get people to start talking map design instead of just bitching that a map sucks. Usually people are pretty good at saying they don't like something, and shut up real fast when asked to clarify what they do like.
I do think the concept has legs, and if I ever get around to making push style map, I might pillage you for ideas.
Try entering this in the console:
That fix it?
nah man I'm done
I got rid of it
that fixed it
why the hell do they look so familiar?
FYI.
I think push maps are great, but I think payload is greater.
Which is what I'm working on now, a payload map. I do want to do a push map later on, and you can guarantee I'll be coming back to your post at that point.
As a concept, yeah. I've been working on it off and on since the summer, testing designs. I haven't done a TF2 map yet so I consider most of the last 6 months study and research.
I got a good plan now, have a lot of the basic geometry blocked out. Spending the rest of the week dealing with lines of sight, routes, and cover. Hope to have a playable alpha this weekend.
I also knocked together a rough concept. CP_Rustica(name subject to change), five point with a small town feel.
Edit:Fixed?
You however are out of webspace.
And many thanks to those that played on hydro on friday night.
good job, you're a decent drawer.
Got it.