Hilo Pokemón! En Espanglish! Aur gims will better than SE++

RockinX

silence1186 wrote: »

DirtyDirtyVagrant wrote: »

I'd just like to see some of my favorite mons come out of NU.

And I'd like to see OU become a little more robust.

Those tiers are mostly based on usage though. The most used pokemon, gathered I THINK from Shoddy Battle data, taken at Smogon, are OU.

I think this is the set up:
Uber: Pokemon that warp the OU metagame; essentially, the "OU ban list"
Overused (OU): The pokemon that statistically appear on a certain (high, I have no idea what) percentage of teams.
Borderline (BL): Pokemon that warp the UU metagame, but couldn't cut it in OU. The "UU ban list."
Underused (UU): Pokemon that statistically appear on a marginal percent of teams.
Never used (NU): Pokemon that statistically appear on very few teams.
Not fully evolved (NFE): Pretty self explanatory. I think the occasional NFE sneaks into higher tiers. For example, Chansey is BL, despite Blissey being the next step in the evolutionary chain.

I don't think these lists are official or anything; I think that a bunch of people on Smogon put a lot of time, energy, and words into developing this system, and try to maintain it with periodic updates based on shifts in usage and strategy.

Chansey is UU, not BL.

silence1186

RockinX wrote: »

My brother said there should be moves with two types. Naturally, my response was "NONONONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO".

That sounds extremely possible, if they have the technology. Water + Ground = mud attacks? Grass + Fire = Flashfire?

For some peculiar reason, when I went to smogon, it took me to the RSE page for chansey, where it is BL, instead of DPP, where it is UU. Beats me, but my point still stands.

Xenogears of Bore

Chansey is good enough for BL though.

Enlong

silence1186 wrote: »

RockinX wrote: »

My brother said there should be moves with two types. Naturally, my response was "NONONONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO".

That sounds extremely possible, if they have the technology. Water + Ground = mud attacks? Grass + Fire = Flashfire?

For some peculiar reason, when I went to smogon, it took me to the RSE page for chansey, where it is BL, instead of DPP, where it is UU. Beats me, but my point still stands.

Water + Grass = nobody wants to use Golem ever again.

RockinX

I'll repeat what I said to my brother:

NONONONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

Terrendos

The Fire type is the one that really needs help. You think Electric is bad, there's only a single Fire type OU and it's not even pure. It's really Stealth Rock that's the problem too; if they nerfed that and added a few more Fire combo Pokemon (seriously, how is there no Fire/Dragon type?) then I'd be happy.

EDIT: I don't count Heatran; he's a legendary.

Xenogears of Bore

Stealth Rock will probably be nerfed with multiple layers or no typing or something else.

DirtyDirtyVagrant

Yeah dude. Arcanine and Rapidash are suffering badly. And don't even get me started on Ninetails.

RockinX

I always wonder why the fuck they had to be such silly gooses and invent Stealth Rock.

Zerokku

I almost finished my Platinum game, and Mass Effect 2 has come out and consumed all my time.

God damn it I'm never going to finish it.

TunnelRunner

It's likely that Game Freak will start doing what their TV shows do (I'm thinking Power/Sentai Rangers, Kamen Rider, that genre in general) route and make the next pokemon game with kids that have never played pokemon before in mind. It would perhaps been more accurate to say they'll do so again, bringing us into phase 3 of the pokempire (Setting us at 2 games per phase [not counting remakes]). So, to balance things for the youngest players for whom the next pokemon game will be their very first, will they perhaps go so far as to make the next generation NOT BE BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE?!?

It'll happen! I found it written on some stone tablets!




Edit: Nobody uses Double Team because it's overpowered, right? Why hasn't Stealth Rock been condemned as well?

RockinX

DirtyDirtyVagrant wrote: »

Yeah dude. Arcanine and Rapidash are suffering badly. And don't even get me started on Ninetails.

Fuck them. Entei is fucking NU, it should have a higher position, but it sucks.

Xenogears of Bore

RockinX wrote: »

I always wonder why the fuck they had to be such silly gooses and invent Stealth Rock.

Rock needed good moves badly, so they focused on it this gen with Stone Edge and this.

If they had given it either ability effecting and layers or layerless with no ability effecting, it would have been a solid move. Hell they could have gotten away with it as is if they made it a rare as all hell move, but that would go against their goal of promoting rock type as a whole. They obviously thought about it but probably didn't really think how badly it would change the metagame, of course the metagame is not their primary concern, but I guarantee they will tone it down somehow.

Xenogears of Bore

People don't use double team not because it is particularly overpowered, but because it used to be ridiculous and everyone is scared of it. If you played with it on all it would add is the necessity of your team having some way to do absolutely guaranteed damage.

TunnelRunner

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

If you played with Stealth Rock on all it would add is the necessity of your team having some way to Rapid Spin.

EDIT: I'm detecting parallels, I guess, is what I'm getting at.

Xenogears of Bore

If Double team brought moves from 100% accuracy to 12.5% in one go you'd have a case there. It does not.

Enlong

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

People don't use double team not because it is particularly overpowered, but because it used to be ridiculous and everyone is scared of it. If you played with it on all it would add is the necessity of your team having some way to do absolutely guaranteed damage.

Or use any of the three different moves that eliminate Evasion boosts, or Haze, or a Machamp with No Guard, or...


then again, it seems the Smogonites are doing some sort of testing to see if they really need that Evasion ban anymore, so there ya go. We'll see, I guess.

RockinX

In ubers, they take advantage of the fact that 99% of the teams will not carry Rapid Spin. That's why Taunt Mewtwo and Deoxys are such common leads.

Xenogears of Bore

You have to plan around one move all the time in pokemon, especially in OU.

It's a serious relic of the time when a swift/softboiled/double team/swords dance mew could kill just about anything. GS sort of made it worse in a way by adding feint attack, but it wasn't a much used battle plan by then. RSE added tons and tons of ways around it, and in fourth gen there are a ridiculous number of moves that can do it.

I think the best excuse they could come up with last gen was extra hax and longer games. Well, this gen could actually use a bit of a knee cap on the offense.

Enlong

Plan around using one move, or around countering one move?

Ferquin

TunnelRunner wrote: »

It's likely that Game Freak will start doing what their TV shows do (I'm thinking Power/Sentai Rangers, Kamen Rider, that genre in general) route and make the next pokemon game with kids that have never played pokemon before in mind. It would perhaps been more accurate to say they'll do so again, bringing us into phase 3 of the pokempire (Setting us at 2 games per phase [not counting remakes]). So, to balance things for the youngest players for whom the next pokemon game will be their very first, will they perhaps go so far as to make the next generation NOT BE BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE?!?

It'll happen! I found it written on some stone tablets!

Oh for fuck's sake, I will be absolutely livid if they do that again. I thought the real reason they rebooted with Ru/Sa was that programming was incompatible. I certainly hope GameFreak learned their lesson from that. I don't want to let all my efforts just go to shit again and find out I've wasted thousands of hours breeding and training.

Also, I thought that the next gen would show up with the next handheld gen. Is this some sign that the next DS successor will be out this year too? I would think if Nintendo was smart, the next DS would be backwards compatible with the current DS games. That was the whole reason why we were able to hang on to the GBA gen Pokémon - because of the GBA slot being included on the classic DS and DSLite and Pal Park in every DS Pokémon game to take advantage of this compatibility. The next Nintendo handheld damn well better be able to play current DS games.

InvisibleInk

Serebii and Pokebeach are both pretty good at translating Japanese and neither site has any info about this story you guys are talking about. I kinda feel like something has been misunderstood or something. This story doesn't exist at any site that I visit.

Darth_Mogs wrote: »

I was thinking about that. But I honestly don't know what other kind of type they could introduce.

Sound!

and Water needs another weakness. So does Electric but, as people were discussing, Electric is so underrepresented it would just be mean to weaken it more.

Also! As much as I dislike Stealth Rock I don't think its nearly as troublesome as Double Team can be.

Kay

We need more Bug types that aren't useless. Then again, we have Heracross and Scizor, and nothing with Electric in it that's in OU. Other than Rotom Forms, but they're not legal, right?

Reynolds

It's on the front page of Bulbapedia right now.

Chen

Kay wrote: »

We need more Bug types that aren't useless. Then again, we have Heracross and Scizor, and nothing with Electric in it that's in OU. Other than Rotom Forms, but they're not legal, right?

ahem

Jolteon would like to have a word with you.

BugBoy

Kay wrote: »

We need more Bug types that aren't useless.

This. Bug pokemon have been neglected for too long!

Also, a pure flying type might be nice.

Enlong

BugBoy wrote: »

Kay wrote: »

We need more Bug types that aren't useless.

This. Bug pokemon have been neglected for too long!

Also, a pure flying type might be nice.

As I said; Flying Eeveelution please!

Also, why not make this game's Pidgey analog be pure?

Hm... Bug type... How about a Bug/Electric type? Another lightning-bug styled species.
Or an ant-based species?

Brainiac 8

Kay wrote: »

We need more Bug types that aren't useless. Then again, we have Heracross and Scizor, and nothing with Electric in it that's in OU. Other than Rotom Forms, but they're not legal, right?

Heracross is all you need, the rest are useless.

truck-a-sauras

Enlong wrote: »

I can't wait to see what new crazy monsters they come up with this time.

Or the starters.

Personally, I'd like to see some kind of Electric/Poison hybrid. It'd be a snake that looks like a lightning bolt.

And Farfetch'd needs an evolution. He'd have samurai regalia made out of woven reeds, and he'd be dual-wielding onions.

for starters I'd love them to open everything up. Either let you choose any starter of your choice barring rares.

Or do something let starter choice is based off character creation. have a giant matrix that let's you choose your home town, gender, age, personality type, etc....
so you get something like this
Home town A, Male, 11 years old, shy gets to choose from Porygon, oddish, grimer
Home town B, male, 11 yrs, shy gets to choose from oddish, pincer, ghastly
Home town C, female, 25 yrs, bold gets ...............

and after all that selection throw you into a tourny right away in the starting town so you don't have the storyline issue of hey everyone in the region has travelled to town X for the new trainers tournament.

Mx. Quill

I don't know about any new types if it is a 5th Gen game, since the types are pretty balanced these days with the exception of Poison. If anything, I'd say that Poison, Bug, Fire, and maybe Electric need a kick to make them more prominent. I fully agree that we need a Fire/Dragon type, finally get a Dragon aside from Kingdra that isn't destroyed by Ice.

Some evolutions I'd like to see are:
Parasect, Jynx, Farfetch'd, Shuckle, Pinsir, Delibird, Ground and Flying Eeveelutions (Gens 2 and 4 seemed to present the new ones as parallels, so Ground and Flying could be interesting), Torkoal, Mawile, Absol, Pachirisu (c'mon Nintendo, an Electric/Flying squirrel would be awesome), and Tropius.

Brainiac 8

That's my first thoughts too, that some of the single form Pokemon need to get evolutions to help make some more effective or to add variety. D/P did some of that, they need to finish...especially for Farfetch'd.

Fire/Dragon type is way overdue, they need to slow down on the new water types since there are always so many of them, D/P barely had any new fire types.

I want a Ghost/Fighting type, which would be pretty awesome.

According to everything I've been reading this morning, there are major changes on the way to the game formula. I wonder just how new of an experience Generation 5 will be.

BugBoy

Brainiac 8 wrote: »

Kay wrote: »

We need more Bug types that aren't useless. Then again, we have Heracross and Scizor, and nothing with Electric in it that's in OU. Other than Rotom Forms, but they're not legal, right?

Heracross is all you need, the rest are useless.

Yeah, but some of us just happen to like bug types in general, and would like to see more viable ones.

On a different note: I think Parasect is based off of the Cordyceps. That just about blew my mind.

Edit: InvisibleInk, serebii had the news as of this morning.

Butler For Life #1

Enlong wrote: »

Also, why not make this game's Pidgey analog be pure?

I'd love another bird with 3 stages. I rather like Pidgey and Starly.

Brainiac 8

Yea, I like some of the other bugs too, most just aren't powerful enough.

In fact Butterfree to this day is still one of my favorite pokes.

Butler For Life #1

Yeah, bugs are great.
I once found a shiny Weedle.

In the OLD MAN'S CATCHING DEMO. :x

BugBoy

Brainiac 8 wrote: »

Yea, I like some of the other bugs too, most just aren't powerful enough.

In fact Butterfree to this day is still one of my favorite pokes.

The problem does tend to be strength. I'm training up a whole team of just bugs, and one bibarel can OHKO them all with rollout. Oh well, I love them anyway.

BugBoy

Butler For Life #1 wrote: »

Yeah, bugs are great.
I once found a shiny Weedle.

In the OLD MAN'S CATCHING DEMO. :x

I remember that! You were so annoyed. At least you had that golden exeggcute.

Butler For Life #1

Yeah, back in GS. I don't have a shiny to my name now.

jothki

Emerlmaster999 wrote: »

Some evolutions I'd like to see are:
Parasect, Jynx, Farfetch'd, Shuckle, Pinsir, Delibird, Ground and Flying Eeveelutions (Gens 2 and 4 seemed to present the new ones as parallels, so Ground and Flying could be interesting), Torkoal, Mawile, Absol, Pachirisu (c'mon Nintendo, an Electric/Flying squirrel would be awesome), and Tropius.

The problem with evolutions of Eevee is that when I think of possibilities, I can't help but come up with names that are inevitably going to be wrong.

Hmm, Zepheon, Ferreon...can you guess which two those would be?

BugBoy

jothki wrote: »

The problem with evolutions of Eevee is that when I think of possibilities, I can't help but come up with names that are inevitably going to be wrong.

Hmm, Zepheon, Ferreon...can you guess which two those would be?

Flying and steel?