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No army as "responsible... moral and accurate...even under impossible conditions,"

Destiny's DesireDestiny's Desire __BANNED USERS
edited January 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Israel and Palestine respond to The Goldstone report

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8487301.stm
Israel and West Bank Palestinians have responded to the UN's Goldstone report which accused both of them of war crimes during Israel's Gaza operation.

The Israeli defence minister said there was no army as "responsible... moral and accurate...even under impossible conditions," as Israel.

The Palestinian ambassador to the UN said a high-level commission had been set up to investigate war crime claims.

The UN secretary general is to report early next month on any further steps.

The UN General Assembly has demanded that both Israel and Hamas launch independent investigations into their conduct during the 22-day Israeli operation which began in December 2008.

When Secretary General Ban Ki-moon make his own recommendations for further action in early February, he is not expected to advocate a process leading to international criminal trials, as proposed by South African judge Richard Goldstone.

A former international war crimes prosecutor, Mr Goldstone investigated the offensive, and said crimes had been committed on both sides.

He accused Israel of deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure during the conflict, in which human rights groups say about 1,400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis died.

An Israeli official said the submission to the UN was not intended to respond in detail to the allegations and incidents outlined in the report, but to explain why the Israeli justice system was "reliable" and "independent".

"The Goldstone report is distorted, falsified and not balanced," said Defence Minister Ehud Barak.

Fighters and commanders on Israeli operations should know that "the state of Israel stands behind you also on the day after," he added.

Israel has been widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.

It says it was targeting the Islamic movement Hamas, which controls Gaza, in response to continued rocket fire at Israeli towns.

Israel blames Hamas for firing from residential areas and putting civilians at risk, and says its own interpretation of international law is in line with other Western countries such as the US and UK.

Arrest fears

Pressure has been growing within Israel to mount some form of independent inquiry.

In December, a UK court issued an arrest warrant for alleged war crimes for former Foreign Minister and current opposition leader Tzipi Livni.

Pro-Palestinian campaigners in the UK have tried several times to have Israeli officials arrested under the principle of universal jurisdiction.

This allows domestic courts in countries around the world to try war crimes suspects, even if the crime took place outside the country and the suspect is not a citizen.

A key factor in the issuing of warrants is whether the country in question has carried out an independent inquiry.

130 investigations

A senior Israeli government official told the BBC there is now consensus within the cabinet, except for Mr Barak, that some kind of investigative body independent from the military should be established.

One compromise option may be a panel of judicial figures to review the conclusions of internal military investigations, the official said.

The Israeli military has opened about 130 investigations into specific incidents, of which about 30 are criminal investigations.

At least 48 have been closed with no wrongdoing found. One has resulted in the prosecution of a soldier for stealing a Palestinian's credit card.

According to the foreign ministry, as of November, 26 of the investigations, 10 of them criminal, are among the 36 incidents the Goldstone report details.

Human rights groups such as the Israeli organisation B'tselem have been involved in helping arrange for Gazans to give testimony in the criminal probes.

They believe criminal investigations include:

* Six incidents where civilians carrying white flags were allegedly shot
* Six cases of alleged use of human shields
* Two alleged uses of flechette shells filled with small darts
* The case of the Samouni family, where witnesses say more than 20 people were killed in an attack on house Israeli troops had told them to gather in.

West Bank commission

Meanwhile, Palestinian ambassador to the UN Riyad Mansour told journalists that his government had this week set up a high-level commission to investigate the charges of war crimes.

Mr Mansour submitted its programme of action to Mr Ban.

He said this was the response of the West Bank Palestinian Authority.

The Palestinian government in Gaza, led by the Islamist Hamas movement, came out with its own response earlier this week, but did not formally submit it.

It rejected charges of war crimes, saying its rockets were not targeting civilians.

That conclusion is disputed by the international Human Rights Watch organisation.


As usual, Israel denies the fact that it is a racist aparthied state with an active campaign of genocide against the Palestinians.

Destiny's Desire on

Posts

  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    They forgot to call Goldstone an anti-semite.

    Sheep on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think I can agree that the Israeli army has loads of responsibility. Tons in fact.

    Kagera on
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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    Scalfin on
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    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    You're joking, right?

    Fencingsax on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    Palestine?

    Loren Michael on
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  • Jason ToddJason Todd Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    Paging Dr. Thanatos

    Jason Todd on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    You're joking, right?

    I assume that is sarcasm.
    Fighters and commanders on Israeli operations should know that "the state of Israel stands behind you also on the day after," he added.
    He forgot to add, "unless you commit any crimes, in which case we will punish you."

    Couscous on
  • QliphothQliphoth Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    They're not free to move out of their territory. Israel has blocked them from their sea rights. Israel promotes militant groups in order to sap power from the ruling party and render them unable to effectively police their jurisdiction giving Israel an easy excuse to invade/bomb whenever they please. They stop trade through their borders turning what could be a reasonably wealthy area into a shithole with 50%+ unemployment. They place barriers in land that is decreed by the UN to be Palestinian annexing large areas which happens to be the best agricultural land in the country.

    Yeah I can really see the similarities between Israel/Palestine and the US/Canada.

    Qliphoth on
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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    Qliphoth wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    They're not free to move out of their territory. Israel has blocked them from their sea rights. Israel promotes militant groups in order to sap power from the ruling party and render them unable to effectively police their jurisdiction giving Israel an easy excuse to invade/bomb whenever they please. They stop trade through their borders turning what could be a reasonably wealthy area into a shithole with 50%+ unemployment. They place barriers in land that is decreed by the UN to be Palestinian annexing large areas which happens to be the best agricultural land in the country.

    Yeah I can really see the similarities between Israel/Palestine and the US/Canada.

    You do know there are Arabs in Israel, right? They move about fine.

    As for promoting terrorist groups, that's like saying our policy in Afghanistan in the cold war is current policy. The rest isn't what apartheid is, and shows an incredible ignorance of world history.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    You do know there are Arabs in Israel, right? They move about fine.

    There were free blacks in pre-Civil War America too, but that's not really the point.

    Palestine does bear at least some similarities to a Bantustan, even though the parallel is not precise. I wouldn't dismiss the comparison out of hand.

    MrMister on
  • Mr. PokeylopeMr. Pokeylope Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Qliphoth wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    They're not free to move out of their territory. Israel has blocked them from their sea rights. Israel promotes militant groups in order to sap power from the ruling party and render them unable to effectively police their jurisdiction giving Israel an easy excuse to invade/bomb whenever they please. They stop trade through their borders turning what could be a reasonably wealthy area into a shithole with 50%+ unemployment. They place barriers in land that is decreed by the UN to be Palestinian annexing large areas which happens to be the best agricultural land in the country.

    Yeah I can really see the similarities between Israel/Palestine and the US/Canada.

    You do know there are Arabs in Israel, right? They move about fine.

    As for promoting terrorist groups, that's like saying our policy in Afghanistan in the cold war is current policy. The rest isn't what apartheid is, and shows an incredible ignorance of world history.

    South Africa created "bantustans" for blacks that were governed similar to how Israel maintains control of the occupied territories. The territories were even nominally independent.

    And the German's exempted some Jews from the Holocaust so that makes it ok, right? Am I doing it right or do I need to call you ignorant of world history too?

    Mr. Pokeylope on
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm pretty sure we can maneuver our way through this thread without making any Godwins.

    Sheep on
  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure we can maneuver our way through this thread without making any Godwins.

    Hitler%20Cat.jpg

    Jokerman on
  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure we can maneuver our way through this thread without making any Godwins.

    That sounds like something Hitler would say.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Qliphoth wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    How is Israel apartheid? Arabs are allowed to move around Israel freely, and Palestine is at least as independent as Canada, yet nobody complains that we're maintaining our border.

    They're not free to move out of their territory. Israel has blocked them from their sea rights. Israel promotes militant groups in order to sap power from the ruling party and render them unable to effectively police their jurisdiction giving Israel an easy excuse to invade/bomb whenever they please. They stop trade through their borders turning what could be a reasonably wealthy area into a shithole with 50%+ unemployment. They place barriers in land that is decreed by the UN to be Palestinian annexing large areas which happens to be the best agricultural land in the country.

    Yeah I can really see the similarities between Israel/Palestine and the US/Canada.

    You do know there are Arabs in Israel, right? They move about fine.

    As for promoting terrorist groups, that's like saying our policy in Afghanistan in the cold war is current policy. The rest isn't what apartheid is, and shows an incredible ignorance of world history.

    Was waiting for the punchline or sarcmark, never came :(

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2010
    Do not link-dump, please. And read the rules thread, sometime.



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