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[WoW] [Chat] There must always be a bitching

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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I think, technically, the "player" was Orgrim Doomhammer. If you want to compare that, you'd compare it to Wrynn doing some of the things players supposedly did.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Spoilers in links:

    See Here

    And Here

    Mind you the first site there claims "reliable sources" ...so take it with a grain of salt.

    Hmm. The first was prior to Blizzcon and predicted this plot point would be announced, which it wasn't. And the second merely cites the first. I don't buy it just yet. Leaving? Maybe.

    *Checks dates of posts.* Oh. Heh. I'm an idiot.

    It IS confirmed
    Carine is no longer in TB
    in the latest patch so this will no doubt fuel the speculation.

    Hey, it's me Cairne Bloodhoof, confirming that I am still in TB on the 3.3.3 PTR (latest patch).
    IJsSw.jpg

    Bikkstah on
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    Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Robot Girl Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Jeez, I'm sorry folks. I'm just being a silly goose with all this speculation I've been reading. But do understand, Cairne is my homeboy, I don't wanna see him go.

    Curly_Brace on
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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    heroic SFK/Deadmines = boring.

    Wait what

    Boring? D:

    Gumpy on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gumpy wrote: »
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    heroic SFK/Deadmines = boring.

    Wait what

    Boring? D:

    Seriously. I can't wait for the Heroic Versions of SFK's "-skill level" debuffs.

    shryke on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Yes, boring. We did them already. New stuff plz.

    Bikkstah on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Nah we didn't, the normal version of the debuff almost never touches a skill that actually effects you.

    It's not like this stuff is coming at the expense of some other dungeon not getting a heroic version.

    shryke on
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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    On the topic of Cairne: Alliance attacked the Horde capitals last night. They didn't get Cairne, because the silly geese didn't go via Zeppelin but tried to take the elevators. We had 15 people defending, of which 2 were Elemental Shaman and my Moonkin. The Alliance raid gave up after 3 free flights.

    Grobian on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I assume Heroic Deadmines isn't just going to be Deadmines with level 85 mobs, man.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I assume Heroic Deadmines isn't just going to be Deadmines with level 85 mobs, man.

    I assume it will be about the same as the new Ony, meaning maybe one new type of mob to worry about.

    UncleSporky on
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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    That reminds me, I never got my black warbear. I haven't killed Thrall or Cairne, and both are those are set to be removed. I should get to work on that.

    (I know that achievement will just be updated to include Garrosh and Baine or whoever, but if the Thrall and Cairne ones become Feats of Strength I'd like to get them).

    Lars on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I assume Heroic Deadmines isn't just going to be Deadmines with level 85 mobs, man.
    In one way I am looking forward to it, but on the other hand DM and SFK were both really long dungeons compared to more recent additions.

    Seg on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I assume Heroic Deadmines isn't just going to be Deadmines with level 85 mobs, man.

    I assume it will be about the same as the new Ony, meaning maybe one new type of mob to worry about.

    I really doubt that, honestly

    I am hoping that they have new dungeoneering techniques in mind when they heroicize it.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    That would be different than the current heroics. I never really understood why people are so in love with heroic classic dungeons. If you want to run deadmines make a lv19 and go run deadmines.

    Jars on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I assume Heroic Deadmines isn't just going to be Deadmines with level 85 mobs, man.

    I assume it will be about the same as the new Ony, meaning maybe one new type of mob to worry about.

    I really doubt that, honestly

    I am hoping that they have new dungeoneering techniques in mind when they heroicize it.

    Considering they are remoddeling alot of the Old World anyway, I can see them doing some fixes and additions and changes to some of the old world dungeons.

    ESPECIALLY the 2 that are getting Heroic versions.

    shryke on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    That would be different than the current heroics.

    Current heroics sometimes include entirely new sections with new bosses (one of the troll dungeons has this going on).

    Also, the Lich King dungeons were made with new boss-gimmicks in mind ... the bosses in Deadmines don't have gimmicks, except for Van Cleef's "two spawns of two adds."

    Presumably, they will add things to these fights so that the bosses have more going for them than just auto-attack.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    That would be different than the current heroics.

    Current heroics sometimes include entirely new sections with new bosses (one of the troll dungeons has this going on).

    Also, the Lich King dungeons were made with new boss-gimmicks in mind ... the bosses in Deadmines don't have gimmicks, except for Van Cleef's "two spawns of two adds."

    Presumably, they will add things to these fights so that the bosses have more going for them than just auto-attack.

    Yah because that tauren stunng everyone while he gets new weapons doesn't fall under Gimmick, or the final guy in SM: Cathedral spawning in that woman to rezz him, or bunch of other things that old world bosses do that people tend to forget about.

    Seg on
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Seg wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    That would be different than the current heroics.

    Current heroics sometimes include entirely new sections with new bosses (one of the troll dungeons has this going on).

    Also, the Lich King dungeons were made with new boss-gimmicks in mind ... the bosses in Deadmines don't have gimmicks, except for Van Cleef's "two spawns of two adds."

    Presumably, they will add things to these fights so that the bosses have more going for them than just auto-attack.

    Yah because that tauren stunng everyone while he gets new weapons doesn't fall under Gimmick, or the final guy in SM: Cathedral spawning in that woman to rezz him, or bunch of other things that old world bosses do that people tend to forget about.

    Or keeping it in DM, the goblin boss on a shredder when you kill the shredder dismounts and you have to fight him some more.

    reVerse on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Seg wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    That would be different than the current heroics.

    Current heroics sometimes include entirely new sections with new bosses (one of the troll dungeons has this going on).

    Also, the Lich King dungeons were made with new boss-gimmicks in mind ... the bosses in Deadmines don't have gimmicks, except for Van Cleef's "two spawns of two adds."

    Presumably, they will add things to these fights so that the bosses have more going for them than just auto-attack.

    Yah because that tauren stunng everyone while he gets new weapons doesn't fall under Gimmick, or the final guy in SM: Cathedral spawning in that woman to rezz him, or bunch of other things that old world bosses do that people tend to forget about.
    Not really on par, though. Every boss has a significant gimmick in wotlk. You don't see old world dungeons where somebody gets TP'd onto a sacrificial altar and everyone has to kill the new spawns, or using launchers to toss harpoons to bring the guy off his mount while dodging a hall-wide aoe. The tauren going to get his weapon is about the extent of it for the whole dungeon, even that's nothing like King Ymiron with his four stuns and different things to watch for each time.

    Old world instances were basically just elites that maybe had an extra ability like a cleave, or one interesting thing they would do if they were considered the main boss.

    UncleSporky on
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    PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Ymiron has extra things to watch for?

    Poketpixie on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    UncleSporky on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Seg wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    That would be different than the current heroics.

    Current heroics sometimes include entirely new sections with new bosses (one of the troll dungeons has this going on).

    Also, the Lich King dungeons were made with new boss-gimmicks in mind ... the bosses in Deadmines don't have gimmicks, except for Van Cleef's "two spawns of two adds."

    Presumably, they will add things to these fights so that the bosses have more going for them than just auto-attack.

    Yah because that tauren stunng everyone while he gets new weapons doesn't fall under Gimmick, or the final guy in SM: Cathedral spawning in that woman to rezz him, or bunch of other things that old world bosses do that people tend to forget about.
    Not really on par, though. Every boss has a significant gimmick in wotlk. You don't see old world dungeons where somebody gets TP'd onto a sacrificial altar and everyone has to kill the new spawns, or using launchers to toss harpoons to bring the guy off his mount while dodging a hall-wide aoe. The tauren going to get his weapon is about the extent of it for the whole dungeon, even that's nothing like King Ymiron with his four stuns and different things to watch for each time.

    Old world instances were basically just elites that maybe had an extra ability like a cleave, or one interesting thing they would do if they were considered the main boss.

    Wrath boss gimmicks are lame, and often outright boring. Especially ones that talk for like 1 minute before you can attack them.

    DisruptorX2 on
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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You don't see old world dungeons where somebody gets TP'd onto a sacrificial altar and everyone has to kill the new spawns

    Zevrim Thornhoof (DM East) Dire Maul in general has several bosses with interesting mechanics, but admittedly it came in a later patch.

    Grobian on
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    The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I'm more annoyed by the following in Cata than anything else:
    Thrall put on a bus, Bloodhoof getting killed, and the plot generally focusing on Wrynn more than anyone else.

    WHAT! WHAT! WHAT!

    Fuck you Blizz.

    After further reading this might not be true. I'll be sooo pissed if it is.

    The Cow King on
    icGJy2C.png
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Seg wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    That would be different than the current heroics.

    Current heroics sometimes include entirely new sections with new bosses (one of the troll dungeons has this going on).

    Also, the Lich King dungeons were made with new boss-gimmicks in mind ... the bosses in Deadmines don't have gimmicks, except for Van Cleef's "two spawns of two adds."

    Presumably, they will add things to these fights so that the bosses have more going for them than just auto-attack.

    Yah because that tauren stunng everyone while he gets new weapons doesn't fall under Gimmick, or the final guy in SM: Cathedral spawning in that woman to rezz him, or bunch of other things that old world bosses do that people tend to forget about.
    Not really on par, though. Every boss has a significant gimmick in wotlk. You don't see old world dungeons where somebody gets TP'd onto a sacrificial altar and everyone has to kill the new spawns, or using launchers to toss harpoons to bring the guy off his mount while dodging a hall-wide aoe. The tauren going to get his weapon is about the extent of it for the whole dungeon, even that's nothing like King Ymiron with his four stuns and different things to watch for each time.

    Old world instances were basically just elites that maybe had an extra ability like a cleave, or one interesting thing they would do if they were considered the main boss.

    Wrath boss gimmicks are lame, and often outright boring. Especially ones that talk for like 1 minute before you can attack them.

    I think you're missing what I meant by gimmick

    A monologue is not a gimmick

    A stun that pauses the fight but doesn't actually change the way it plays out isn't a gimmick

    Bosses that turn into scarier bosses if you don't interrupt them repeatedly are gimmicks, 'false pvp' fights are a gimmick (this came late in vanilla for the first time), untankable bosses are a gimmick, etc.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.

    DisruptorX2 on
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Or the Netherspite gimmick.

    SabreMau on
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    PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    Poketpixie on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    It is different because it is in Wrath and not Vanilla. Can't you read?

    Seg on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Or the Netherspite gimmick.

    Netherspite, the karazhan boss? Doesn't go invincible, IIRC.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Actually, that was in reference to the previous post. Netherspite was a cool gimmick that I'm not sure if they've reused yet.

    SabreMau on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Seg wrote: »
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    It is different because it is in Wrath and not Vanilla. Can't you read?

    Oh wait, no it's not, turns out it's different because he doesn't grab weapons at all and instead he summons a moving orb that aoes, or gains the ability to aoe, or summons adds, or applies a stacking debuff on someone, and has a general damage return he can apply to himself. Funny how that's apparently the exact same thing as a guy who just stuns people a few times?

    UncleSporky on
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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I feel certain that the major terrain changes will give reason to change the layout and mobs. I'm sure Deadmines @ 85 isn't going to just be pirates and humans and the same exact bosses.

    Vincent Grayson on
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    destroyah87destroyah87 They/Them Preferred: She/Her - Please UseRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    Or Forgemaster Garfrost who ... stuns people so he can forge an extra weapon.

    Clearly, Blizzard encounter designers are just fonts of innovation.
    They probably have a dartboard of boss mechanics.

    EDIT: Oh, I was never suggesting that Garfrost = Smite, it's more then obvious that they aren't even close. Just pointing out the similarity of the stunning bit.

    destroyah87 on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I think people underestimate the mechanics of the Wrath heroic bosses because most of our experience has been with roflpwning them.

    EDIT: Garfrost has a pulsing aura that needs to be LoSed, a "you will take damage and be stunned after X seconds" debuff, throws boulders at people, and shoots ice spikes.

    Smite's stun is all he does.

    Let's not be silly geese, people.

    I needed anime to post. on
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Or Gandling! They could bring that gimmick back.

    SabreMau on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I think people underestimate the mechanics of the Wrath heroic bosses because most of our experience has been with roflpwning them.

    EDIT: Garfrost has a pulsing aura that needs to be LoSed, a "you will take damage and be stunned after X seconds" debuff, throws boulders at people, and shoots ice spikes.

    Smite's stun is all he does.

    Let's not be silly geese, people.

    Exactly. Obviously it feels pretty easy at this point, but at-level you need to understand the mechanics. Bane was something you had to watch for! In UK, you had to get behind a pillar when Ingvar rezzed! Vanilla bosses really did have like one ability and it was just more damage. No zones on the floor, no debuffs, nothing to make you stop damage or target something else.

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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    NEWSFLASH

    Warcraft's storyline has never been that amazing. It's the same couple plot devices blizzard loves over and over - corruption of heroes, etc - it never is coherent, and half of the plot points require one or more of the characters involved to be functionally retarded for it to make any sense. Warcraft's plot is incredibly shallow and serves as little more to string along the gameplay from one point to another.

    And you know what? I'm fine with that because all the games are fun as hell. Blizzard can make games but they sure as hell can't write a story beyond "blargh I must protect people oh no now I'm evil gonna kill you all raarrgh"

    Arkan on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I think people underestimate the mechanics of the Wrath heroic bosses because most of our experience has been with roflpwning them.

    EDIT: Garfrost has a pulsing aura that needs to be LoSed, a "you will take damage and be stunned after X seconds" debuff, throws boulders at people, and shoots ice spikes.

    Smite's stun is all he does.

    Let's not be silly geese, people.

    Exactly. Obviously it feels pretty easy at this point, but at-level you need to understand the mechanics. Bane was something you had to watch for! In UK, you had to get behind a pillar when Ingvar rezzed! Vanilla bosses really did have like one ability and it was just more damage. No zones on the floor, no debuffs, nothing to make you stop damage or target something else.

    Yeah, they did.

    Scholomance: final boss teleports people to rooms where they have to fight adds, while the party continues to fight the boss.
    Stratholme: final boss debuffs the party, summons adds, and heals if the adds aren't killed
    Ubers: final boss has a particularly nasty debuff


    Obviously, TBC bosses were more challenging and had more interesting mechanics, but no final boss in vanilla was really tank and spank.

    DisruptorX2 on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    A priest with mass dispel turns Garfrost into Smite or Ymiron.


    Also, you could pull Netherspite when he reached the door with dash to the previous room and DPS him down. Turned it into a tank and spank which was never fixed.

    Bikkstah on
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