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[Let's Play] Civilization 4: Domination Victory!

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Posts

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    I never understood the mechanics of how a holy city is founded. Is there any explanation on Civfanatics?

    It's heavily weighted towards cities without a religion first, large cities second, and I think cities with Great Prophet points third.

    And by heavily, I mean heavily. It's almost unheard of to see a city with a religion found a new one over an unreligioned city.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    A holy city just has a shrine in it, right?

    emnmnme on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    I never understood the mechanics of how a holy city is founded. Is there any explanation on Civfanatics?

    It's heavily weighted towards cities without a religion first, large cities second, and I think cities with Great Prophet points third.

    And by heavily, I mean heavily. It's almost unheard of to see a city with a religion found a new one over an unreligioned city.

    Damnit! I was hoping Pi-Dongbury would be in the running for it.

    mrt144 on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    A holy city just has a shrine in it, right?

    No, not automatically. You have to get a Great Prophet to build the shrine. Once you have a shrine built you get one gold coin per turn for every city that has that religion. There have been a few games where I wound up not building any markets or grocers or banks because I had two or three holy cities with shrines just raking in the dough.

    mrt144 on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    I never understood the mechanics of how a holy city is founded. Is there any explanation on Civfanatics?

    It's heavily weighted towards cities without a religion first, large cities second, and I think cities with Great Prophet points third.

    And by heavily, I mean heavily. It's almost unheard of to see a city with a religion found a new one over an unreligioned city.

    Damnit! I was hoping Pi-Dongbury would be in the running for it.

    No one has a religion yet, so you have a decent shot.

    And yes, holy cities get +5 culture (if you're that state religion or none) and the shrine with a great prophet. Shrines, of course, are awesome.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • shalmeloshalmelo sees no evil Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I'm rooting for Dickerdale, of course, but I'm guessing that those snooty bastards in Los Wangeles will wind up founding our new religion.

    shalmelo on
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  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I almost always see the new religion founded in my newest city; or so I thought. So, has confucianism been founded yet? I thought it had been, but haven't been paying attention as much to religious affairs, except insofaras it relates to our diplomatic standings.

    dojango on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Nope. It's ours in 16 turns if no one else learns Code of Laws in the meantime.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Hippie and Judgement: vote! If they don't, I'll scan the thread for their opinions if previously stated.

    3 hour warning.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Nope. It's ours in 16 turns if no one else learns Code of Laws in the meantime.

    (The following takes place ~16 turns from when this post was made.)

    If it pleases the court...

    Our glorious civilization has finally established a strict set of laws. Laws not subject to the whim of an emotional populace or an “ethical” governor. And thus finally the distinction between “traitor” and “agent” is wrought. With these protections, those of us forever lurking in the background can step forward without fear and proudly offer our assistance.

    Why give away our superior knowledge when we can simply take from “friend” and foe alike with impunity? Why attack make guesses about the strength of our opponents? Why suffer the insult of opening boarders to these swine simply to see lay of the land? Now is the age of espionage. Send us forth, and we spies shall be the god queen's invisible eyes and ears. Simply construct our courthouses to protect us from those we seek to protect, and we shall slip back into our enemies' shadows.


    (Obviously, requesting a position as a spy. My city of preference is somewhat based on our ultimate war strategy which seems up for debate. Ideally some city with spare food for spy specialists... a research-lite city if you will. A settled spy and a Scotland yard are a must, asap, if one of the governors will commit to that. I personally favor raiding Louis for technology rather than further weakening opponents our military believes to already be trivial, but risking negative diplomacy is up the counsel, and the spies tailor their work to their desires.)

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You could propose a city name and try to make yourself a city, you know.

    Anyway, added. Commit to a city after tonight's update.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You could propose a city name and try to make yourself a city, you know.

    Anyway, added. Commit to a city after tonight's update.

    Heh I propose the name "Tricky Dick" then. ("I am not a crook!")

    If I can't set up a spy's paradise as gov. I will pick a city after our war plan is made.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Tricky Dick has been nominated as a name, if I bother to hold another vote.

    Also, I am not a cock. Stick with the damn theme.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Tricky Dick has been nominated as a name, if I bother to hold another vote.

    Also, I am not a cock. Stick with the damn theme.

    But...but...he is sorta a cock?* I mean denying that would break the theme!

    (*Tricky Dick was Nixon's derogatory nickname for those of you blissfully unaware of US political minutiae. Considering he was busted for involvement in espionage, it seems so very very fitting.)

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    He was a crook, so it still works.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Fair enough.

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  • HippieHippie Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    1) Do we want Shangian (Wangian, obviously)? Yes!

    2) Should we continue settling cities? No! Get our economy back on track. Or, if after we burn the Mayan cities to the ground there are some irrisistable sites, go for it.

    3) Should we declare war on the Maya? Yes! Keep Mutal, burn the rest!

    4) Should we declare war on the Portuguese? Not yet!

    Hippie on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    If, as it appears, the Council decides to declare war against Maya with an eventual goal of decimating the Portuguese afterward, and the council thinks we can kill the Maya with no subtle assistance, please allow the suggestion of a spy offensive against Portuguese food enhancements. Such an offensive only requires 2 or 3 spies (coupled with the courthouses we should build to maintain our burgeoning empire anyway), and should deal a crippling blow to Portugal to make them soft against the onslaught of our remaining chariots. Additionally, striking only the food should cause minimal difficulties when we ultimately take over the cities as we have several food resources of our own already, and farms can be rebuilt easily enough.

    Should we pursue such a strategy, I humbly suggest a 1:1 split of our espionage efforts between France and Portugal. We can later use our experience with the French to fill in any gaps in our technology, and can reassign the Portuguese efforts toward passive information gathering of our remaining enemies later. To facilitate this course of action, I again suggest making a strong effort towards a settled great spy, as the contribution from such an expert will be worth more than 6 cities with court houses before even factoring in any aid he is given by our infrastructure.

    (This means a setting of 1 for Portugal and France and 0 for everyone else on the espionage screen. A great spy is worth 12 espionage before modifiers vs. just 2 per courthouse. One city with 2 settled great spies, a Scotland Yard, and the normal spy infrastructure should give us an unparalleled source of intelligence through the game.)

    (Edit: I reread the thread an noticed France has the Great Wall, a significant boon to early spying. If we have access to one of their close allies, switching to spy on them instead of France would be good. However, the Great Wall is by no means an immunity to enemy spies.)

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Well, it's a tie unless Judgement comes in with his vote, as he has previously expressed preference for killinating Joao.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    1) We shall conquer Wangian and make it our own!
    2) We shall continue settling, because we are full of hubris! And poor judgment!
    3) We shall invade...awww fuck, I have to break a tie. The populace seems to be slightly in favor of Joao. This matter may be brought up again after the update, as I don't think this will be a super long one.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Rawkking GoodguyRawkking Goodguy Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Since this is looking to come down to a tie where non-council opinions might be taken into consideration., let it be known that I am pro-killing Joao and for keeping the Mayans as a "vassal-ally" instead of actually warring on them (yet).

    Also, are we actually in a position to lose money from keeping cities? To phrase it another way, are certain cities costing us more commerce/turn than they are generating, without other significant advantages (valuable culture war cities, heavily specialized production cities). Because aside from the hammers needed to train up military to defend them, that's the only real reason to raze cities from an economic standpoint (poor placement is another matter). It doesn't matter what % your science slider is at, it's the beakers/turn that determines how fast you research a technology.

    Rawkking Goodguy on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Yeah, as a neutral spy, my plans are pretty flexible.

    If we have one weak enemy: split spies between France/France-Ally and Portugal.
    If we have one weak enemy and a potential Vassal: kill weakling and dedicate spies toward slaughtering vassel improvements to make them more willing to ally with us.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    An eventful turn! Though no wars! We have LOTS of decisions to make.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    We are in fact going to banish secrets this update. Everybody gets a car! And sees everything. Except the tech tree, which I have forgot to check. Just imagine we added Code of Laws, Aesthetics, Meditation, Priesthood, and Monotheism.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Hey Enlightened, do you happen to have a list of techs enemies have but we don't tucked away?

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  • The Littlest IonThe Littlest Ion Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    So I don't think my previous application to join as a resident of this empire was acknowledged, so I shall retry once more.

    I wish to join the Empire as a Scientist and would like to move to East Schlongville upon entry of the Empire.

    The Littlest Ion on
    IonJr.gif
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    So I don't think my previous application to join as a resident of this empire was acknowledged, so I shall retry once more.

    I wish to join the Empire as a Scientist and would like to move to East Schlongville upon entry of the Empire.

    I was a slacker with the OP, you're in where it counts.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Update 4: My God, The Options!
    2vk000x.jpg

    The first thing that happened was that Buddhism spread from the nearby Maya to Dickerdale. We did not convert to this new faith. Cities can get religion. This allows you to build religious buildings (temple, missionary, cathedral), gives you one culture per turn (if it's your state religion or you have none) and if it's your state religion one extra :). Nice to have. For this LP, something will be happening momentarily.

    5yxjmg.jpg

    Wangian was captured as requested by 3 members of the cabinet and kept as requested by two of them. We sadly lost a chariot in the assault. :(

    1ze9ssw.jpg

    I waited a few turns to offer this deal hoping we could nab Monarchy which as we had seen Pacal was already learning. We couldn't, but now he was willing to add Meditation to the deal. Saved us three turns of wasted research, awesome.

    fcjtzk.jpg

    With Monotheism we can now adopt Organized Religion. More on this at the bottom of the update.

    245enti.jpg

    Forgot to crop this image. Anyway, no Temple of Artemis for us. Top 5 cities says it's in Paris, which now has FOUR WONDERS.

    9jeude.jpg

    Fuck off Joao. Christianity was founded elsewhere the previous turn.

    2s6si36.jpg

    Code of Laws! One of the most important techs in the game, this allows Courthouses which lowers maintenance costs 50% and allows a much larger empire. Awesome. It also allows Caste System: again more on that in a moment. And learning it first means...

    2dhwy0n.jpg

    Hells yeah. East Schlongville is the holy city. Because Confucianism is one of the four later religions, we get a free missionary, he was sent to Arcadia to improve its happy cap.

    2nj94.jpg

    In 5 BC, we complete the Pyramids, allowing us any government civic. More on this later as well! When you finish a wonder you get a pretty (lame) cinematic and this screen that tells you what they do. Hooray!

    dxnwjb.jpg

    Mmmmmm. This would be an awesome city site, if hilariously aggressive (and near the Zulu, even). Note the minor problem of Shaka having converted to Judaism. Not cool.

    1zgahhy.jpg

    Monkey wrench thrown in our plans! Louis becomes Christian, ending the Hindu three-way we were so hoping for. Ew, forget I said that. Anyway, bad times. Especially when the very next turn...

    2lvb5hs.jpg

    Brennus spread Hinduism into Wangian. He also added it to Djonganet the next turn.

    2ir9ekl.jpg

    Relations at a glance: it's muddled! The only real friends on the continent are now Joao and Shaka. Joao who we were planning on invading and Shaka who we took a city to build a forward base against. Also, Joao has 7 cities and because he's an imperialistic dickweed is going to keep expanding. He must be destroyed.

    30bjwn7.jpg

    Techs: we can only get Monarchy from a couple people. None of the available trades are probably that smart. Note Louis has Theology and Shaka has Horsies. Do not approve!

    k3x3kn.jpg

    Arcadia, scrolled down to show our wonder options. Pi-Dongbury has already submitted a plan for some Gardens. The others are available if you'd like to request them.

    The other cities:
    30wp7hi.jpg
    2r2yihw.jpg
    1fbb61.jpg
    34nmm1k.jpg
    2h6cxsg.jpg
    30lmqrk.jpg
    mue5cn.jpg

    nv02e.jpg

    Oh boy, here goes! We've got a bunch of new civics, here's what they all do:

    Hereditary Rule: Civ4 rules - Each military unit stationed in a city gives it +1 :).
    LP rules - With every new cabinet, we'll get a King randomly selected from the people in the empire. He will appoint a new cabinet and join the decision making process. I will still play the turns because screw trading the save around. I almost made this a temporary succession game, but that's a tad too complex.

    Representation: Civ4 Rules - Our 6 largest cities get +5 :). Each specialists generates +3 science.
    LP Rules - Each city will elect a representative. They get a vote on the cabinet and can propose legislation.

    Police State: Civ4 Rules - -50% War Weariness, +25% Unit Production
    LP Rules - A Chief of (Secret) Police (Spy or Military will join the cabinet. They will have... powers.

    Universal Suffrage: Civ4 Rules - Towns generation +1 Hammer. We can use our treasury to buy production.
    LP Rules - Chaos! Anyone can propose legislation! If it's seconded it goes to the cabinet.

    Caste System: Civ4 Rules - unlimited numbers of Scientist, Merchant, Artist specialists.
    LP Rules - Scientists, Merchants, and Artists in each city elect the governors. Initial governor turns (from naming votes) last until the next full cabinet session. So founded update 1 of a new cabinet, you get 5 updates. Founded update 3, you get 3. Then you have to win the vote.

    Organized Religion: Civ4 Rules - Cities with the state religion make buildings 25% faster.
    LP Rules - Priests of the state religion will have their non-cabinet votes doubled. A High Priest position will be added to the cabinet. Priests of the state religion only, of course

    29st35.jpg

    Priests in the cities with a religion may convert to that religion. This is a one shot deal, so choose wisely! Those Priests will get something to do (finally!). Also, we should maybe convert to a religion.

    Wonders
    Artists may propose The Statue of Zeus (if people invade us they get unhappy faster) or The Parthenon (+50% Great People)
    Prophets may propose Shwedagon Paya (We can switch to any Religion civic) or Chichen Itza (+25% city defense)

    I will be proposing SO MANY resolutions tomorrow night, if the cabinet doesn't do it themselves. Jesus.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Oh right, MegaMek has been drafted to govern SilverSnakes. A civilian governor will be made there after Update 9, if any civilians live there. Similarly, we need a military governor for Wangian, this will also last until Update 9.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    hey enlightenedbum could I get a list or picture of what buildings are available to build in E. Schlongville so I can update my build queue?

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    New stuff: Courthouse, Temples, Monasteries (where applicable). Missionaries if you build the monastery or we switch to Org. Religion.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Regarding the development of Los Wangeles:
    2r2yihw.jpg

    As our citizens are still a bunch of heathens by the standards of every faith in the heavens, by default we will need to make a courthouse next to properly sentence and burn these heretics at the stake. Once some sort of belief system more advanced than worshiping colored rocks makes its way to the city, we should immediately construct a temple and monastery to determine which heresies exactly they are guilty of.

    And definitely break out the whips and start preparing them for the next citizen about to leave the granary. He seems especially heretical.

    Steel Angel on
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  • HippieHippie Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Crank out them Courthouses to free up some gold so the scientists can get back to inventing me some better weapons to stick our enemies with!

    Hippie on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    As a spy, I propopse we spread the protection of law through courthouses in every city to better our own technology advantage. The extra resources freed up by such a move will allow us to expand our own scientific operations while simultaneously letting us scout out our enemies more thoroughly (and steal their technologies for a pittance).

    I implore the artists to inspire our populace in all aspects of governance (including espionage) through the Parthenon.

    Given our size I also propose representation or police state to maximize our population or military growth; both are essential for our council's aggressive plans.

    I vote against changing from slavery; egos can not improve our production, no matter our aims.

    I would throw my support behind organized religion ironically to rapidly get our courthouses and libraries in order, but Hinduism is bad. Priests! Get us Christianity to better take advantage of the pitiful French please!

    (For now, as a spy, I stay in the capital due to the priority of military units on our eastern front and lack of a clear plan. Not entirely sure how "moving" works, but the capital is not my intended permanent location. There just isn't a better spy city at the moment.)

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  • HippieHippie Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Oh, and again, anyone in the Military who wants to act as Military Governors let me know.

    Otherwise I'm just going by whomever has the highest post count.

    Hippie on
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Damn shame about Joao getting some friends. This only intensifies the need to hit him now, rather than later. Let's see if our governors will crank out some chariots, and we should hit him before his cities get stronger.

    Pacal isn't going anywhere; he's cut off from expansion. It might take a while for him to get his nerve up before bothering us. He might never do if we maintain a strong enough military.

    dojango on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    When Arcadia finishes its Forge, it's going military. I loathe Joao almost as much as I loathe Izzy.

    And I don't know why!

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    With two out of three of my recommendations now properly researched, we should now be studying Aesthetics.

    But beauty alone is not enough to properly show our glory to the world. We need Drama for a better expression of our obvious superiority.

    After that... well, that depends on the international situation, I suppose. If we go to war and, if so, how it fares. That sort of thing.

    And... let's see. I am the Priest who promoted the formation of a Code of Laws, which led to our people embracing Confusianism (even though others somehow felt the need to embrace some foreign and, therefore, heretical religion). Confusianism was also founded in East Schlongville, a city with only one Priest: Me.

    The conclusion is inevitable. I'm a Confusian Priest. Probably the High Priest, but I am far too humble a person to even suggest such a thing.

    WotanAnubis on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    With two out of three of my recommendations now properly researched, we should now be studying Aesthetics.

    But beauty alone is not enough to properly show our glory to the world. We need Drama for a better expression of our obvious superiority.

    After that... well, that depends on the international situation, I suppose. If we go to war and, if so, how it fares. That sort of thing.

    And... let's see. I am the Priest who promoted the formation of a Code of Laws, which led to our people embracing Confusianism (even though others somehow felt the need to embrace some foreign and, therefore, heretical religion). Confusianism was also founded in East Schlongville, a city with only one Priest: Me.

    The conclusion is inevitable. I'm a Confusian Priest. Probably the High Priest, but I am far too humble a person to even suggest such a thing.

    Congrats, you are the High Priest. Enjoy. Bug people to build you missionaries and spread it.

    Also, we have Aesthetics, I just didn't take a shot of it because it's not vital. That was our last turn. We're going to need more techs than just Drama. That'll take 11 turns. Give me elephants! I want elephants!

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    With two out of three of my recommendations now properly researched, we should now be studying Aesthetics.

    But beauty alone is not enough to properly show our glory to the world. We need Drama for a better expression of our obvious superiority.

    After that... well, that depends on the international situation, I suppose. If we go to war and, if so, how it fares. That sort of thing.

    And... let's see. I am the Priest who promoted the formation of a Code of Laws, which led to our people embracing Confusianism (even though others somehow felt the need to embrace some foreign and, therefore, heretical religion). Confusianism was also founded in East Schlongville, a city with only one Priest: Me.

    The conclusion is inevitable. I'm a Confusian Priest. Probably the High Priest, but I am far too humble a person to even suggest such a thing.

    Congrats, you are the High Priest. Enjoy. Bug people to build you missionaries and spread it.
    Wait, stop, no, my argument was faulty. Sure, I proposed Code of Laws, but I temporarily forgot my actual place of residence. So if Dyscord wants to be the Confucian High Priest, I'll cede the title to them.

    And fine, you can have your elephants. You can have them even before studying Drama if you insist. Just don't come crying to me when the war elephants do what war elephants always do: trample their own troops.

    WotanAnubis on
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