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ITT we discuss why Americans hate good music.

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Posts

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    XenosX_ wrote:
    Various points to attend to here...

    First off, I don't mean to come off as pretentious. But I know music well enough to hear chord progressions, especially when they are fairly simple, and I hear the radio constantly, and for the most part, the chord progressions utilized in 'popular' music are taken from a pool of maybe ten or twenty common themes. That's very limited for a very wide number of artists and songs. Now, I know a lot of people don't know too much about musical theory, but it seems like they'd be able to tell when two songs sound very similar. And it also seems like it would be human nature to find something that isn't as similar. People get sick of eating certain foods, or playing certain games, but why not certain music?

    Also, I think rap is hardly music because there is almost a complete absence of notes. It's basically rhythmic talking over a repetitive rhythm, along with a pattern of maybe a few simple notes. I suppose yes, it is music, but only in the same way that folded up paper is a cup.

    Again, you're only really revealing a lack of rap/hip-hop knowledge. There's tons of great, really experimental stuff out there that have amazing beats, polyrhythms, and lyrics.

    sanstodo on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Elkamil wrote:
    Jameserson wrote:
    celery77 wrote:
    why isn't rap music?

    Why isn't rap music what?
    XenosX_ wrote:
    I only mean to say that I consider pop/alternative/emo bad, and rap hardly music at all.

    No, you don't get it. :P

    James on
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    sanstodo wrote:
    XenosX_ wrote:
    Various points to attend to here...

    First off, I don't mean to come off as pretentious. But I know music well enough to hear chord progressions, especially when they are fairly simple, and I hear the radio constantly, and for the most part, the chord progressions utilized in 'popular' music are taken from a pool of maybe ten or twenty common themes. That's very limited for a very wide number of artists and songs. Now, I know a lot of people don't know too much about musical theory, but it seems like they'd be able to tell when two songs sound very similar. And it also seems like it would be human nature to find something that isn't as similar. People get sick of eating certain foods, or playing certain games, but why not certain music?

    Also, I think rap is hardly music because there is almost a complete absence of notes. It's basically rhythmic talking over a repetitive rhythm, along with a pattern of maybe a few simple notes. I suppose yes, it is music, but only in the same way that folded up paper is a cup.

    Again, you're only really revealing a lack of rap/hip-hop knowledge. There's tons of great, really experimental stuff out there that have amazing beats, polyrhythms, and lyrics.
    Nor is music necessarily dependant upon melody and harmony.

    Elendil on
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2007
    Jameserson wrote:
    No, you don't get it. :P
    Probably. It's your fault.

    Elki on
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  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Most people don't listen to a lot of music, and when they do, they want to hear something they recognize. For a lot of people, satisfying music is just being able to sing along. To cater for this, the music industry sells a lot of simple, catchy, generic music. A few songs dominate the market at any given time because they want to get repeated exposure to people who only turn the radio on a couple of times a day.

    You're probably less likely to be satisfied by this, as you're a musician, and you spend heaps of time thinking about music. Just like how I'm a writer and I wouldn't be satisfied with a similar excuse about Dan Brown and J.K Rowling. Get over it, realise you're in the minority, and don't consider it a fault of the majority.

    bsjezz on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2007
    XenosX_ wrote:
    I'm questioning why this music in particular is popular. It seems that most pop music, and various similar genres, utilize almost completely the same chord progressions, instrumentation, and even lyrical topics. If anything, I would view this as the least likely candidate to be a national trend. People listen to a lot of this stuff, evidently, but why don't they get bored of it when many of the songs are indistinguishable from each other?

    One of my favorite songs is "One Day More", from Les Miserables. It is absolutely beautiful. The counter melodies blend wonderfully, and the layers of different thought, different emotion, different struggles, they all combine into an epic piece. Listening to it gives me chills. However, you can't really sing along, unless you happen to be gifted with half a dozen mouths.

    You can, however, sing along to Cameo's "Word Up", a silly and unsophisticated pop song from the 80's. Guess which gets more play time in my CD player?

    The best music isn't always the most fun music, and many people like music that's fun.

    tl;dr: It's easier to sing along with Britney Spears than to sing along with 4'33".

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • XenosX_XenosX_ Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    werehippy wrote:
    Is the answer that musical taste and preference are regionally, culturally, and personally influenced, and therefore completely subjective, but it's intellectually less taxing and more sensational to make definitive claims regarding an objective reality, as if from a position of superiority?



    Or, the short version: Because you're an idiot for trying to claim your preferences are not only inherently superior, but that your shallow observations are universal fact.

    OK, OK, I'm pretty sure we all know i'm a stuck-up ass. As a further disclaimer, nothing I say in this thread is established fact. I am aware that it is not possible to argue about opinion. But I was aiming for why simple music is more popular than sophisticated music, when it would seem as though it is human nature to be drawn towards complexity.

    Also, someone mentioned polyrhythmic experimental hip-hop. Show me. I'd love to see something fresh.

    XenosX_ on
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    XenosX_ wrote:
    Various points to attend to here...

    First off, I don't mean to come off as pretentious.

    Don't worry, you do anyway.
    But I know music well enough to hear chord progressions, especially when they are fairly simple, and I hear the radio constantly, and for the most part, the chord progressions utilized in 'popular' music are taken from a pool of maybe ten or twenty common themes. That's very limited for a very wide number of artists and songs. Now, I know a lot of people don't know too much about musical theory, but it seems like they'd be able to tell when two songs sound very similar. And it also seems like it would be human nature to find something that isn't as similar. People get sick of eating certain foods, or playing certain games, but why not certain music?

    Absolutely. Which is why there are only 2 or 3 Final Fantasies, and why people only eat Italian food a few times in their lives.

    There's more to music than chord progressions. There's melody, tempo, rhythm, timbre, lyrics etc. It would be like saying "I don't understand why people eat different cuts of beef. It all came from a cow!"

    Hi I'm Vee! on
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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    ElJeffe wrote:
    XenosX_ wrote:
    I'm questioning why this music in particular is popular. It seems that most pop music, and various similar genres, utilize almost completely the same chord progressions, instrumentation, and even lyrical topics. If anything, I would view this as the least likely candidate to be a national trend. People listen to a lot of this stuff, evidently, but why don't they get bored of it when many of the songs are indistinguishable from each other?

    One of my favorite songs is "One Day More", from Les Miserables. It is absolutely beautiful. The counter melodies blend wonderfully, and the layers of different thought, different emotion, different struggles, they all combine into an epic piece. Listening to it gives me chills. However, you can't really sing along, unless you happen to be gifted with half a dozen mouths.

    You can, however, sing along to Cameo's "Word Up", a silly and unsophisticated pop song from the 80's. Guess which gets more play time in my CD player?

    The best music isn't always the most fun music, and many people like music that's fun.

    tl;dr: It's easier to sing along with Britney Spears than to sing along with 4'33".
    It's actually pretty easy to sing along with 4'33". :P

    Elendil on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2007
    Elendil wrote:
    ElJeffe wrote:
    tl;dr: It's easier to sing along with Britney Spears than to sing along with 4'33".
    It's actually pretty easy to sing along with 4'33". :P

    I always forget the words.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    One of the precious few things I enjoyed about living in Tulsa (OK) was that there were only one or two radio stations owned by ClearChannel. Everything else was independently-sponsored and -run. I still didn't like all of it, but definitely a lot of it, and what's more, I could be surprised by a song when I turned on the radio. You know, because it wasn't a ClearChannel 24-hour playlist almost identical to yesterday's.

    SithDrummer on
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    To me there's a place for all of the music. Whether you look down at Brittney Spears or not, there is a group of people (especially younger folks) who enjoy fun, upbeat, mindless music. I personally HATE Nickelback, but I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy their stuff, doesn't mean it's bad music, just not my thing. It's art, art is subjective (to a point).

    I personally love Robbie Williams, and I'm in the US which means I have to search for his new stuff and watch his concerts on gay-focused cable and payperview (love explaining to the wife why the Tivo has stuff from the Logo channel). I know it's not as "artistic" as people want me to believe that Radiohead is, but I personally enjoy listening to it, my life is dull and boring enough, when I have freetime I want happy music, even if it doesn't meet the approval of critics.

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    XenosX_ wrote:
    Also, I think rap is hardly music because there is almost a complete absence of notes. It's basically rhythmic talking over a repetitive rhythm, along with a pattern of maybe a few simple notes. I suppose yes, it is music, but only in the same way that folded up paper is a cup.
    So if I may extrapolate, your definition of music includes "having many notes," and if I can gather from your other posts, also "having many different notes." Concerns such as rhythm, melody, tonality, variation in sound, and structure have little bearing on what goes into "music"?

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    America created modern music, and just about every genre that is still around. Turn the radio off. It's pretty simple.

    Edit: Xenos, your definition of music sucks.

    Crayon on
  • BewisBewis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    As far as American radio goes, the songs they play during All Things Considered on NPR are usually both awesome and by musicians I've never heard of before, and span a large range of genres. NPR in general is awesome.

    Bewis on
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    Please, think of the children.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Its easier to enjoy other culture's art because from a distance it's easier to filter out the crap.

    nexuscrawler on
  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Oboro wrote:
    Wow.

    Just, wow.

    Who's that guy who posts here with the best signature ever for threads like this?

    Some famous guy once said, "We are very fortunate to live in a world with so much music."

    (quote may be inaccurate)

    That's about it, buddy.
    :D

    XenosX: Why don't you find someone who knows something about music and listens to hip hop and have them give you some hip hop to listen to? Or go to our hip hop thread. Or don't, but stop talking about hip hop because you don't know anything about it. As a start to alternative, complex hip hop, I'd recommend "Goin' Down" by Yung Joc and "Tell Me When To Go" by E-40 featuring Keak da Sneak.
    sanstodo wrote:
    Also, music isn't the sole focus and purpose of people's lives, at least not for most. Lots tend to listen to music mostly at parties or socially, so they don't focus 100% on it and need it to be decent background music or danceable. This may not be your favorite kind of music (it isn't mine) but you have to recognize the function music plays in different people's lives.
    This was going to be my main point. If you think about it, most people don't really listen to music. How many people listen to even one new album a week? How many people listen to an album a week, period? I listen to music way more often than most people and I know enough to have a conversation about it, but I wouldn't say I have a good knowledge of the basic, most commonly acclaimed music of even a single genre. So most people aren't really that interested in music, they just want to listen to something that is accessible and catchy. What's wrong with that? Don't get me wrong, I'm not likely to take a music recommendation from someone like that, but I don't go around asking "WHY IS EVERYONE DUMBER THAN ME?"

    YosemiteSam on
  • LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I just wish there were more songs on the radio that didn't fall into these categories:

    Boohoo, my sweetheart left me.
    Ha ha, I left my sweetheart.
    I love my sweetheart!
    I hate my sweetheart.

    LadyM on
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    celery77 wrote:
    why isn't rap music?

    I'll say this, I'm more willing to call shitty pop rock "music" than shitty rap.

    The former, more or less, tends to have three competent musicians working in unison with their respective instruments to produce a song.

    The latter, is usually one dude barking into a microphone whilst a minimalist synthesized bassline pounds; the kind of shit that wouldn't even play as house music.

    Original Rufus on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2007
    Fuck it this isn't going anywhere.

    If you want to try again, make a stronger line of initial discussion.

    Irond Will on
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2007
    celery77 wrote:
    why isn't rap music?

    I'll say this, I'm more willing to call shitty pop rock "music" than shitty rap.

    The former, more or less, tends to have three competent musicians working in unison with their respective instruments to produce a song.

    The latter, is usually one dude barking into a microphone whilst a minimalist synthesized bassline pounds; the kind of shit that wouldn't even play as house music.
    Pffffffffftt!

    Elki on
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This discussion has been closed.