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Im kind of an emotional robot, who's waking up
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Its my laptop, do people wear your shoes? My laptop has alot of personal information about me on it, nothing bad to share in a sense but i dont know her at all. Why would i expose so much of my character to someone i dont know anything about?
Im not looking for friends, its more of an intimacy and understanding kind of thing, its hard to explain. Hobbies wise most of my hobbies, as i posted a page or two back i think, are things that are done by oneself.
It's....not like she's rifling through your laptop. THAT would be creepy. All she's doing is going on a browser, going to facebook, and setting shit up for you. There is barely any 'invasion' of privacy at all, or exposing of character.
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I might be reading it wrong, and I apologize if I am, but I don't see how lying to someone is a positive step.
If you want to have interactions with people, great, but if you have no real interest, just tell her the truth instead of just blowing her off. The people that you're interacting with have feelings, too.
I dont claim to be very good at this, i thought the lie was good personally, it got me out of a situation in which i would have usually ignored the person, and i think, allowed the other person to not feel bad, i thought i was doing something good. Im not a black and white kind of guy, lies work sometimes and in this situation i think it worked for the best. The other explanation was, "i left early because i didnt have anything to say to you" which would have made her feel bad.
Im taking baby steps into this world too so you will all have to forgive me for finding paths which both work and are "socially acceptable".
As to your final point about sharing no interests, well i dont know if we do or not, besides 4ish encounters which were brief we have never spoken, which im glad about because that conversation would not go well, because of me.
I understand what your saying, perhaps its just a personal peeve, but i live my life on computers, what there is of a personality here, o r any unique character exists solely on that laptop, and other assorted pc's.
Also im starting to see a bit of anger coming towards me at the moment, if thats the case then fine but understand that this is new to me, you have no idea how far out of my comfort zone i have gone so far so cut me a little slack.
I just dont buy this, im not a habitual liar by any means, but when it works it works.
Im not trying to start a huge argument over this because it doesnt server either of us, but chances are you have been lied to plenty of times in your life and are none the wiser as to when or how. Its also likely many of these lies have shielded you from unpleasantness. Like i said im not a habitual liar, but if it serves a purpose and i reasonably believe that there is very little repercussion then i see no issue with it. This being said if its truly something seen as abhorrent by society then i accept the chance to change, but in the immediate future, if it servers my purpose then ill do it. Im not going to change overnight so i have to work with what ive got.
It's just as easy to say "You know, I've been thinking, I know everyone and their mom is on facebook, but I'm really a solitary kind of guy and I really don't want to be on there. I really appreciate your offer to help me set it up, though." and wish her a nice day or whatever pleasantries you exchange and be done with it.
Just seems simpler to me than remembering the lies...
And I think we get that you're new at this stuff and you're stepping way out of your box... My thing, I guess, is I'm trying to remind you that the people you're "experimenting" with are still people, with feelings, and sometimes they are sensitive to being lied to or blown off or avoided.
See what you suggested above just does not compute in my head, if i had thought of it id have said it but i dont think it. Also i think just as some would call me naive i would extend the feeling back to those who see lying as a black and white issue. I do take your point that she has feelings, and if it helps in lying i believe i was serving her feelings. Like i said i had two choices in my head and i went for the one i thought was best for her, which i think is pretty considerate.
It's a great step that you were thinking of her feelings. From my perspective in this thread, you're new at interacting with people in general. I think it's great you're making an effort and going outside your comfort zone. At the same time, I want to help you make your journey a positive experience for you AND the people you interact with or reach out to. That sounds odd typing it, but really I think that's what we're all in H/A for ultimately. Anyways, I digress.
Lying is not a black and white issue. There are white lies and there is out and out deceit. I think the concern that's being expressed again goes back to your lack of interactions and experience dealing with people on a regular basis. We would rather see you succeed and be a positive influence than become comfortable in the habit of lying and potentially see it degrade into negative manipulation.
I find it more concerning that he's basing most of his effort on lying and flaking out. Sounds to me like a recipe for disaster when I'd rather see him succeed.
OP: I re-read your OP and you say "i have often seen couples through my life and wondered why the hell people get together, given the large range of differences, and oft points of argument, it confused me"
While there is arguing that isn't good, having a difference of opinion isn't something most people would be offended by. If anything, having a difference of opinion and knowing how to express it in an open-minded and non offensive way is key to building relationships no matter how deep you want them to be. The closeness that 2 people develop isn't something that comes because of the things they share, but the small differences that they can impart to one another that enriches both their lives.
I said it before, but I'll say it again in case you missed it: Don't worry about offending someone. Don't go out of your way to be offensive but don't be afraid to be your own person. Sometimes people just can't see eye to eye and if you're always shielding yourself and the other person from that you'll be wasting time that can be better spent on someone you're more compatible with.
I accept this line of thinking. Although il admit that it still doesnt compute with me yet, i wave to your experience in the matter and ill try not to lie in the future in these situations. Ill say this, its something small but something noticeable. Though i dont feel any real connection to her, no more so really than to anyone else, but she does have a goofy smile which i somewhat enjoy. She smiles then makes to hide it, which is comical. I find it strange i notice this, but havent read anything into it.
I don't know if this'll help much, especially since I am experiencing somewhat similarly the same issues as you. Honestly, I don't just identify but also agree with you on quite a few points.
There is one thing I completely disagree with you about though; that is the lying. As posited earlier: what's the point? Your lie isn't killing anyone, no doubt about that, but at the same time, who's it helping?
You? With what? Avoiding awkwardness? But why's it awkward? Is it her? Is it you? If it's you, what can you do to fix it? Perhaps not letting such a small thing as a little friendly (Because that's what it is even if you can't see it that way) interaction drive you to some fairly silly actions? Like "i believe i have a good idea of her shifts now should i need to avoid her in the future," or even better the "ohgodwhatisshegoingtodowithmypreciouslaptop"-ophobia you have.
I'm not poking fun. Such things--eg: initiating conversation, sending off someone with a "have a nice weekend," etc--is certainly not easy for someone that has spent their life not doing those things. Think about it though...taking a few seconds or (oh god no) MINUTES of your 24 hour (1440 minute) day to do something as simple as speak to someone else; should that really be taken so seriously?
That's not to say that because such an action is so seemingly insignificant, there's really not much point in performing it, so why bother? How about because, oh, I dunno, there are millions--BILLIONS--of people on this earth and if you can't help lying and flaking out (Even though the meetup would be such a simple thing!) on the one of them that is at this moment trying to get to know you a little better, well... why not just tell her to buzz off? Why bother taking such strides to avoid her if that's what you really want? If words are so hard to raise to express this idea, here's two that work easy: Go away. What's it matter if this offends, confuses, or hurts her? It gets her away from you and best of all, a minimum of interaction!
Again... I understand your situation. It's a lot easier to say than do, but sometimes you just gotta' do. I applaud the steps you are taking, as they are ones I myself still need working on; it's fair to say communication may not come out naturally, but how could it with your near three decades of experience that hold no inclusion of it at all? Of course there are always mistakes to be had with anything new tried. After all, do you not agree that "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"?
If it matters at all to you, ease up a little and just go at it. You may be surprised at what comes your way, and maybe you will not. Just ask yourself; will it really hurt you that much to try being a little friendlier to this person that has shown you nothing but friendliness?
If you don't want her touching the laptop, use it yourself and have her guide you through it. If she touches it, you always have the right to stop her. Also, what's the worst that could happen here? Honestly, in most social situations, as long as you haven't punched someone or outright insulted them, they aren't going to get mad at you.
Something I do in situations where I am nervous is to imagine the worst possible scenario, then think on what the actual results would be. (example: Everyone here will turn on me and laugh at me... but... if that actually happens, they're all assholes for doing it and I don't care what assholes think, as they are in fact assholes). It makes me think hard on what exactly I am afraid of, and usually I realize that if these turn out to be the kind of people who would do such things, they aren't the kind of people I want anything to do with anyways. So fuck them, they aren't worth getting worked up over.
Try to find a group that matches with your interests. Book clubs can be good. Or a class to learn a new skill, cooking, languages, etc... Board games are a good nerdy pastime that involves social interaction. You want situations where you can be social with people, but the topic will be something you enjoying thinking on/discussing. I used to be terrified at parties but then I met up with a larger group of people with similar interests, (other gay nerds like me, basically) and since the topics were stuff I enjoying debating, being social was suddenly much easier.
I'll third or fourth the no lying thing. It's a defense mechanism. You are not big on the social stuff, that's fine. But honesty is always better. Especially with yourself.
-edit-
PS: Good on you for expanding your social skills.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
To him, the laptop is probably part of his self image with respect to what he does, who he is, and what the laptop means in that grand scheme. For example, I don't let anyone drive my car - even if they asked me to use it. Just the thought of someone else sitting in the driver seat is something I'm uncomfortable with. I can ride passenger in someone else's car just fine, but I would never want to drive someone else's car.
I'm imagining that he feels the same way about the laptop. Would I be incorrect in assuming that you wouldn't feel perfectly fine using someone else personal laptop?
I could use anothers laptop fine, others using mine is like your car, very personal to you
I am off to the gym now, i will take said laptop and play it as it goes.
It's just weird and overly guarding to approach interaction that way.
but they're listening to every word I say
So i get to the gym, reticent still, but at the same time kind of nervous, a different feeling this time, oddly enough i was kind of ok with it on the journey, the progress i have made makes me smile. So i get there and i head for the cafe, she is on her break reading at a table and i kind of double take. I dont approach her but sit a bit away hoping to be noticed, which i was, for some reason i was oddly nervous, she came over and said she did not expect to see me, i said i had some free time. I had decided prior that i would not allow her access to my laptop, its just too, its just not something i was comfortable with, but i asked her if she could walk me through it, to which she said yes. Ill admit early on it was kind of awkward me typing away, i only have 2 email addresses to sign up, for some reason i did not foresee having to put my email address in and this kind of weirded me out. But i ran with it and put my college alumni one in. Anyway i was pretty much awful in the beginning, besides asking a few things she did alot of the talking, most of my comments were just "am i doing x right" etc, nothing startling. It was kind of a successful failure on that count, i was hanging in there but not really doing anything constructive.
However when we got to putting interests in she asked me what those were, to which i replied technology, music and games. And i thought this would be as good a chance as any to have some sort of back and forth civil discourse. She asked me if i played any instruments, to which i replied yes, 3, she seemed impressed and said she had on multiple occasions tried the piano but was not very good. I told her that its not a matter of being good, its just fun. I remember after i said this i thought "that sounded evil" and she went quiet for a moment. I said sorry and she asked me why, it was all very confusing, i honestly had no idea what was going on. However she asked me if i taught anyone, i said no, she said if i change my policy and i accept candy she would like some lessons. I didnt get the joke at first, why would i accept candy? which led to a really odd "oh" moment a few seconds later, which again seemed to make things slightly awkward. Anyway, she asked me what music i liked and i said indie stuff, she asked me about whether id been to local bands and open mics etc, i replied no.
This continued for a few more minutes until i felt that things were going well, in a relative sense, probably terrible for normal people but i thought i was doing well. However the page, save a picture was done and when she asked me if i had a picture i said no i dont photo well. I have a cell but its an old ass one ive had for years, no real technology in it, it dials and thats fine. She called me a "poor excuse for a techno geek" which i originally thought was quite offensive. She offered to use her phone and i said no, i dont like having my picture taken. I took this as a good time to leave and said that i had alot of work to do, i did say thanks.
I think success
I did a little research and there is one in a jazz club nearbye on thursdays, but that sounds kind of niche really, i dont know much about jazz anyway
but they're listening to every word I say
It seems that she is up for hanging out with you. She keeps trying to arrange for you two to see each other again like asking if you wanted help for facebook and dropping hints that she would be up for a night out to a local concert.
I can see this going down wacky romantic comedy lines, so let's clarify. She was teasing a bit, in fun. Let's not have him insulting her back due to misunderstanding.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I think most of you can tell im not very funny or charming, going out of my comfort zone is one thing but changing who i am, thats something different entirely. Taking this into consideration ill just keep doing what im doing, doesnt seem like i need to change anything other than take some notes to have more things to say in the future. I wrote a few things on my hand last time, i called it my "slow silence" speech, just a list of things that hopefully would stop awkward silences.
I dont read alot into her body language or words, i was more interested in just testing the boundaries of how far i could go before the "fight or flight" reflex came in and i needed to bail. The line seems to be getting longer all of the time, which is encouraging. I still reach a stage where i get bored, but at least last time i wasnt feeling that straight away.
Also to those saying she was vying for an invite, i dont read that at all, and suffice to say i wouldnt make plans, im not ready to spend an entire evening with someone, though were i to id pick somewhere like a cinema where no talking is implied. She added me on facebook and sent me a message saying exactly this
"Congratulations, need any help send me a message, also you might like this"
The link was to a group for the Gym, it seems somewhat active, mostly people looking for gym partners and postings about special events. This got me thinking that maybe the "extra mile" she has taken is all i the interest of the gym she works for, which make sense considering, so far as normal people go she has gone beyond what is considered "socially acceptable". I did wonder if she had a motive, not that this changes things but ill be on the lookout for any emotional manipulation to buy gym stuff. Regardless she still makes an ample practice person for social discourse.
You're thinking into this too much. She sent you a link to join the group for your gym. This is one, if not the only thing you two have in common. On Facebook people join groups that are related to their interests. I'm guessing she thought because you go to the gym you might want to join its group.
Don't be on the lookout for manipulation. It will show that you are being even more cautious or suspicious.
Her motivation doesnt affect me other than being slightly cautious about certain topics, besides that i dont care if she is a salesman or not, if anything it would help that she is, the idea of a two way usage policy makes me worry less about trying, she needs something from me and i her.
Perhaps that's why you are so bad at this?
You seem to be trying to reach some kind of goal with every conversation... even if your goal is just becoming better at speaking with people, it is showing in your speech and your actions, that you are using them for your own goal. This is a BAD thing.
(Side note, you also seem to think that lying is a good backup plan if you don't know what to say/do. It isn't. It is a crutch that you are relying on for normal human relations, if you want to get better at this, you must throw away that crutch however awkward/painful it is.)
You need to relax.
Stop trying to achieve something, and just be friendly.
Truth is, I don't like talking to people either... few people talk about anything I am interested in and it generally feels like a waste of time that I could better spend doing, well anything.
BUT...
It is very important for your humanity. Something many people need to work on these days.
My suggestion? Go volunteer your time at a nursing home. You will be doing a good deed, you might even learn some very important things while you are there.
Cafe girl at the gym isn't trying to sell you anything except coffee or juice or whatever.
Yeah, pretty sure people in those kind of dime a dozen jobs are not shilling for the business. Stop trying to think of ways in which people are secretly evil. They aren't. Don't make me come over there! (<example of a friendly ribbing)
but they're listening to every word I say
Then again, I used to be very shy and introverted and I had a rocky period of adjustment too, so perhaps I'm not remembering just how difficult it was.
I went from being painfully shy and AGONIZING over every aspect of social interactions and overanalyzing them to death to being very social, BTW. Even if you don't want to be uber-social, it's worth it to become a more relaxed and comfortable in those kind of situations. Much less stressful in the long run.
Speaking of overanalyzing, the girl wasn't trying to sell you anything. She directed you to the gym's Facebook page because you both belong to the gym. I wonder if you prefer to think otherwise because it adds a level of disconnection between you and her and makes you think she too has some kind of "secret goal." Sorry dude, that's not the case.