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Ostracizing a once good friend.

Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
edited February 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
Hey there H/A. It's me again.

The Story:

So I have(had?) this very good friend. I met him through my workplace about 3-4 years ago, and he was a very interesting dude. I liked his social circle and over the course of a few months kind of grew out of my old social circle and into his.

Fast forward to early last year. I moved in with him and 2 other room mates Peter and Rick, it was much fun, much partying and drinking occured for a good 7-8 months of damn near being brothers with the guy in question, call him Stan.

about 6 months ago Stan met his new Girlfriend Regina. Stan and Regina hit it off, both were cool people and seemed to fit in just great. Until Regina found herself low on cash and asked Stan to "save" her from having to move back to her mom several states away.

Stan told Rick that he was moving out with 5 days notice. Stan didn't tell me or Peter, we had to find out mid-week through Rick that Stan was moving out. Much hosility was had.

Stan all but dissapears into his new apartment with Regina and doesn't bother to talk much less apologize to Peter or I for about 2 weeks. When he does he plays it off like no big deal, it doesn't matter, etc etc. We move past this and forgive him and proceed to eat drink and be merry.

So, for the last 5 1/2 months Stan has developed the habit of treating Rick Peter and myself much the way he treats complete strangers, which is to say, he lies to us all the time about all the amazing things he owns, postures himself and his job as being far more than either actually are. General macho posturing BS that only idiots do in the first place. This is a step backward in terms of years for Stan. Peter Rick and myself are all very confused and somewhat angered by this.

Fast forward again to 2 weeks ago, when Stan gets into a big argument with Regina, possibly involving minor domestic abuse (no one was actually hurt) but violence was had nonetheless, Stan breaks into our house and sleeps on our couch, in the morning he tells us a story involving Regina overreacting to Stan's Ex-girlfriend being in the same restaurant as they were, suffice it to say the story painted him as a helpless victim of circumstance who did nothing wrong.

Last weekend we hear another side of the story, where Stan is a violent emotionally cheating asshole (confirmed) possibly with actual real sex having cheating as well.. Rick Peter and I are all disgusted, and are very leery of the fact that Stan would break into our house and bring all of this down on our heads when there is a very real possibility the police might even have become involved at this point.

The break-in incident combined with his general slide backwards into a lying mistrustful jerk has led Rick Peter and myself to completely ignore Stan at this point. We don't want him in our lives, and we certainly don't want him to think it's ok to ever break into our house, ESPECIALLY when the police might be involved and we all have to be at work in the morning.


Questions:

1) How justified are we in cutting this guy out of our lives? It feels like he's been given more second chances than anyone deserves, but our history makes it hard to act on his recent goosebaggery.

2) Do we owe him an explanation? I feel like I should send him a text or email explaining why he's being cut off, but I don't really even want to talk to him at this point, I'm just disgusted with him and I feel like explaining what he did wrong would be interpreted as another chance to change and be part of the group again.

*names changed, mostly for my amusement.

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Captain Vash on

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    AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    How did he break in? Does he still have a key? If so, get the locks changed.

    He does deserve a cursory explanation even if it's just "we don't like the person you've become and don't want to have anything to do with you. Never come into our house again. You do not live here anymore and you are no longer welcome." If you want to do this by email instead of face-to-face, then that seems pretty reasonable.

    If you don't say anything he probably won't know why you all decided to stop talking to him, and so he'll just show up asking why and it'll get very awkward.

    Asiina on
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    Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    The break in occured via a mistake on our part (unlocked side door).

    However I do agree that the situation needs some form of closure.

    Captain Vash on
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    Susan DelgadoSusan Delgado Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Don't do it by email...there's a whole thread in H/A about a dude that got dumped by his friends via email/msn... it's just not cool.

    If it's the way you all feel, tell him to his face and do it together...put up a unified front and be honest. Maybe that'll get it through his skull what a goose he's being.

    Susan Delgado on
    Go then, there are other worlds than these.
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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Next time he needs something from you, explain to him that you guys think he's an ass and here's why. And unless he's sick of being an ass you don't want to be friends with him.

    Why does it need more closure? If you're already ignoring him and not hanging out with him then I think that's enough personally.

    tsmvengy on
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    PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Hey there H/A. It's me again.

    The Story:

    tl;dr

    Questions:

    1) How justified are we in cutting this guy out of our lives? It feels like he's been given more second chances than anyone deserves, but our history makes it hard to act on his recent goosebaggery.

    2) Do we owe him an explanation? I feel like I should send him a text or email explaining why he's being cut off, but I don't really even want to talk to him at this point, I'm just disgusted with him and I feel like explaining what he did wrong would be interpreted as another chance to change and be part of the group again.

    *names changed, mostly for my amusement.

    1) Extremely justified. He's turned into a grade-A Silly Goose for multiple reasons (the posturing, the alleged domestic abuse, cheating, breaking/sneaking into your place)

    2) "You're a giant douchebag, fuck off" is probably all the explanation that needs to be offered.

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
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    splashsplash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I think you should give it closure rather than having anything linger. It's better for you and for him (hopefully to realize his mistakes some day). Keeping the explanation very short and direct as Asiina said, "we don't like the person you've become, you aren't welcome here anymore." It doesn't seem that it warrants a face-to-face meeting since the explanation should be about that short.

    splash on
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    Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I sent him a text:
    what I tell you now I tell you not because I expect you to change, but because I at least want you to understand what's happening. There is enough lying and deceit in this world already, the reason you're not hearing back from myself Rick or Peter or myself is because we've made the decision that we don't need people in our lives with more questions than answers. It's too difficult to enjoy the company of someone who at any given moment is more likely feeding you a line than then being honest. I know it's harsh, just know that we harbor no ill will.

    I feel like it may have been a little soft, but I feel like it gets the point across.

    Captain Vash on
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    HoovesHooves Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    If my friend crashed on my couch unanounced because he was going through a bunch of drama with his girlfriend that night I really would think of it as that big of a deal. If my friend needed a place to stay on short notice I'd want them to be able to count on me. That's what friends do. I also wouldn't care if he maybe cheated on his girlfriend because his relationship is none of my goddamn buisness.

    Honestly it sounds like you're being kind of a drama queen or you don't really know how to be a good friend so I guess for both your sakes it would be better if you just ended it.

    Hooves on
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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I sent him a text:
    what I tell you now I tell you not because I expect you to change, but because I at least want you to understand what's happening. There is enough lying and deceit in this world already, the reason you're not hearing back from myself Rick or Peter or myself is because we've made the decision that we don't need people in our lives with more questions than answers. It's too difficult to enjoy the company of someone who at any given moment is more likely feeding you a line than then being honest. I know it's harsh, just know that we harbor no ill will.

    I feel like it may have been a little soft, but I feel like it gets the point across.

    This is the most bullshit line I have ever read. It's almost as bad as what that other guy got in that other similar thread.

    You should have just manned up and tell him you don't like his current attitude or all the drama he's bringing into your guys life.

    Kyougu on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I sent him a text:
    what I tell you now I tell you not because I expect you to change, but because I at least want you to understand what's happening. There is enough lying and deceit in this world already, the reason you're not hearing back from myself Rick or Peter or myself is because we've made the decision that we don't need people in our lives with more questions than answers. It's too difficult to enjoy the company of someone who at any given moment is more likely feeding you a line than then being honest. I know it's harsh, just know that we harbor no ill will.

    I feel like it may have been a little soft, but I feel like it gets the point across.

    This is the most bullshit line I have ever read. It's almost as bad as what that other guy got in that other similar thread.

    You should have just manned up and tell him you don't like his current attitude or all the drama he's bringing into your guys life.

    Agreed. You didn't get your point across, you mired it in bullshit. And a text? Look, I'm not saying the guy deserves a breakup dinner, but this was just a giant cock-up of a breakup.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Hooves wrote: »
    If my friend crashed on my couch unanounced because he was going through a bunch of drama with his girlfriend that night I really would think of it as that big of a deal. If my friend needed a place to stay on short notice I'd want them to be able to count on me. That's what friends do. I also wouldn't care if he maybe cheated on his girlfriend because his relationship is none of my goddamn buisness.

    Honestly it sounds like you're being kind of a drama queen or you don't really know how to be a good friend so I guess for both your sakes it would be better if you just ended it.

    There's a huge difference between crashing unannounced because of a fight, and fleeing the scene when you know the cops have been called after you just commited a violent act against your girlfriend because you can't handle taking responsibility for your own actions.
    This is the most bullshit line I have ever read. It's almost as bad as what that other guy got in that other similar thread.

    You should have just manned up and tell him you don't like his current attitude or all the drama he's bringing into your guys life.

    I don't disagree, but the point isn't to tell him he's full of shit and make a serious point, the point is to tell him we don't want to see him anymore.

    Captain Vash on
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I don't know about the rest of you guys, I'm a little concerned of what has happened in Stan's life to cause this slide?

    Have you tried reaching out to the guy? I mean you lived with him for 9 months partying, having a great time, being bros and all.

    It sucks he bailed on your guys' lease with almost no notice, but hey, it was his girlfriend and you said they were two peas in a pod. It sucks, but I can understand it, but then for him just to switch personalities?

    I don't know, is there something else going on other than just this dude hiding the fact he was an asshole for 9 months when you guys were brosephs?

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I don't know about the rest of you guys, I'm a little concerned of what has happened in Stan's life to cause this slide?

    Have you tried reaching out to the guy? I mean you lived with him for 9 months partying, having a great time, being bros and all.

    It sucks he bailed on your guys' lease with almost no notice, but hey, it was his girlfriend and you said they were two peas in a pod. It sucks, but I can understand it, but then for him just to switch personalities?

    I don't know, is there something else going on other than just this dude hiding the fact he was an asshole for 9 months when you guys were brosephs?

    Stan has always proclaimed himself as an asshole. He's never claimed to be anything else. It was just never directed at us until he moved out.
    The violence is a pattern we've seen in his previous relations as well.
    He's definitely an alcoholic, and he calls his mom (also an alcoholic) and she reinforces his behavior. He calls her almost daily.
    Pile on top of those issues the fact that he's immature as a kindergartner and can NOT handle being wrong in any way, and well it's no suprise that he acts the way he does, just a suprise that he acts that way towards us.

    Captain Vash on
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I don't know about the rest of you guys, I'm a little concerned of what has happened in Stan's life to cause this slide?

    Have you tried reaching out to the guy? I mean you lived with him for 9 months partying, having a great time, being bros and all.

    It sucks he bailed on your guys' lease with almost no notice, but hey, it was his girlfriend and you said they were two peas in a pod. It sucks, but I can understand it, but then for him just to switch personalities?

    I don't know, is there something else going on other than just this dude hiding the fact he was an asshole for 9 months when you guys were brosephs?

    Stan has always proclaimed himself as an asshole. He's never claimed to be anything else. It was just never directed at us until he moved out.
    The violence is a pattern we've seen in his previous relations as well.
    He's definitely an alcoholic, and he calls his mom (also an alcoholic) and she reinforces his behavior. He calls her almost daily.
    Pile on top of those issues the fact that he's immature as a kindergartner and can NOT handle being wrong in any way, and well it's no suprise that he acts the way he does, just a suprise that he acts that way towards us.

    I'm confused, why were you so buddy buddy with this guy while living with each other? I mean if he's acted this way before and you knew about it, it really shouldn't be that shocking that he's now treating you poorly.

    I'd say you don't owe him much of anything, but in my experience with cutting toxic people out of my life it makes it a lot easier to be up front and explain what you're doing and why. This why you don't continually get the "What am I doing wrong?" conversations out of them.

    So, call him on it. Tell him he's behaving unacceptably and he's not welcome with you or in your home anymore.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I don't disagree, but the point isn't to tell him he's full of shit and make a serious point, the point is to tell him we don't want to see him anymore.

    And where exactly did you tell him that?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You're right, it was a retarded message.

    At this point though, having said what I said, I don't see any need to clarify. If he's confused and wants clarification he can call/text/show up and we'll have a sit down talk.

    I think the path forward is pretty clear at this point.

    1) If he doesn't care and walks away, leave it at what it is.
    2) If he does care and asks, be up front, tell him exactly what it is that's caused the trouble.
    I'm confused, why were you so buddy buddy with this guy while living with each other? I mean if he's acted this way before and you knew about it, it really shouldn't be that shocking that he's now treating you poorly.

    I suppose the difference is being on the receiving end now instead of being on the inside looking out. I don't understand how he has any of the friends he's had besides us honestly, considering we were the only ones he didn't treat like that (until recently, obviously)

    Captain Vash on
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    WildEEPWildEEP Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I don't disagree, but the point isn't to tell him he's full of shit and make a serious point, the point is to tell him we don't want to see him anymore.

    Fair enough. Except the part where you DIDNT TELL HIM YOU DONT WANT TO SEE HIM ANYMORE.

    Hell, you even 1/2 expect him to contact you just so you can go over a list of the bullshit he's done to deserve it.

    Thats the part you're screwing up. Focus on the result - him, out of your life. Thats done with declaritive, ordered instructions - not waxing poetic about how much deceit their is in the world.

    Try a new text:

    Stan - I really don't like you anymore, your 'tude really is unbearable. Talked this over with Rick, he shares the same opinion. You are no longer welcome at the apt. Do not come over. We dont want to socialize with you anymore - do not call, text, or e-mail. We both hope you become a better person, but its not our job to make sure that you do. Good luck out there in the world.

    WildEEP on
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    splashsplash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I think you did fine. Your message wasn't to entertain him or anything, but yes it was a little soft. Yet it was much better than doing nothing as you were considering! And it's good you sent a message. This was a one-way conversation which doesn't warrant discussion, you wouldn't have gained any advantage by meeting in person, you weren't there to reconcile. It only warrants discussion if he decides for himself to radically change and comes to you to profusely apologize.

    splash on
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2010
    Are you the guy from that other thread where the OP didn't know what he did wrong, he just got some pansy-ass email saying that his friends didn't want to associate with him anymore, and giving no reason?

    I'm all for cutting people out of your life for your own health and well-being, but you handled this very badly. A text? Really? Talking about how you can't see him and how messed up the world is? I think I want what you were smoking when you thought that text was poetic or whatever it is someone thinks when they come up with some vague flowery line about this crazy, messed-up world but actually are just hurting someone's feelings and doing everything they can to be vague. It's so patronizing, and this guy, for a while anyway, was your friend.

    WildEEP's post - that's what you should tell him, preceded by an apology for what a silly goose you were to send a text like that. You can probably safely go ahead and replace "silly goose" with "a jet or current of water, sometimes with a dissolved medicating or cleansing agent, applied to a body part, organ, or cavity for medicinal or hygienic purposes".

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    ceres wrote: »
    Are you the guy from that other thread where the OP didn't know what he did wrong, he just got some pansy-ass email saying that his friends didn't want to associate with him anymore, and giving no reason?

    I'm all for cutting people out of your life for your own health and well-being, but you handled this very badly. A text? Really? Talking about how you can't see him and how messed up the world is? I think I want what you were smoking when you thought that text was poetic or whatever it is someone thinks when they come up with some vague flowery line about this crazy, messed-up world but actually are just hurting someone's feelings and doing everything they can to be vague. It's so patronizing, and this guy, for a while anyway, was your friend.

    WildEEP's post - that's what you should tell him, preceded by an apology for what a silly goose you were to send a text like that. You can probably safely go ahead and replace "silly goose" with "a jet or current of water, sometimes with a dissolved medicating or cleansing agent, applied to a body part, organ, or cavity for medicinal or hygienic purposes".


    I can fully understand that the message was not clear enough, that was my mistake. I was by no means trying to write a poem, it's just what came to mind.

    I know it doesn't justify anything, and it will even seem contradictory, but I didn't take a hard line because I wanted to leave the door open for him to come back and say he wants to change, while at the same time, I didn't feel like in his current state he deserved much more of a reply at all.

    I know it's mixed up, but matters like this always are aren't they? He was a very close very good friend for a good long time, it's hard to just say "get away I never want to see you again", while simultaneously I'm so hurt and angry that I don't want to talk to him at all.

    So fuck you, stop the name calling, this is already hard enough.. and there are not always absolutes when you're dealing with these situations.

    Captain Vash on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2010
    You can't kick someone out while leaving the door open. You throw them out and shut the door.

    You can't have it both ways.

    FyreWulff on
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    BelruelBelruel NARUTO FUCKS Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    You can't kick someone out while leaving the door open. You throw them out and shut the door.

    You can't have it both ways.

    yes you can, if you care for the person but they are damaging your life and won't accept help, you say 'i have tried reaching out to you, and i have put up with more than i should be asked to, so until you figure your shit out and are in a place to be a friend again, i don't want to see you. i love you man, we had good times, but you don't seem to want to act like a friend anymore, so i am done acting like a punching bag.'

    now, this obviously depends on you already being a friend and sitting him down to have a talk where you try and help him, and give him warnings that behavior like that won't be allowed.

    Belruel on
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    TheMadHuntsmanTheMadHuntsman Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Bro, I wish you luck with everything. This guy pulled a real silly goose move here, and you have every right to toss him. Here's what I would do: I would, as a group, sit down with him and talk to him about what's been going on. I'm not saying confront him, more intervention- you know what I mean? Make him understand that you guys really don't want to do this, but his actions have pushed you this far. At the same time, allow him a reprieve- offer forgiveness. You have to show him that you all are willing to move on, but whilst expressing the fact that this is a last resort and that you wish things were different.

    TheMadHuntsman on
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2010
    ceres wrote: »
    Are you the guy from that other thread where the OP didn't know what he did wrong, he just got some pansy-ass email saying that his friends didn't want to associate with him anymore, and giving no reason?

    I'm all for cutting people out of your life for your own health and well-being, but you handled this very badly. A text? Really? Talking about how you can't see him and how messed up the world is? I think I want what you were smoking when you thought that text was poetic or whatever it is someone thinks when they come up with some vague flowery line about this crazy, messed-up world but actually are just hurting someone's feelings and doing everything they can to be vague. It's so patronizing, and this guy, for a while anyway, was your friend.

    WildEEP's post - that's what you should tell him, preceded by an apology for what a silly goose you were to send a text like that. You can probably safely go ahead and replace "silly goose" with "a jet or current of water, sometimes with a dissolved medicating or cleansing agent, applied to a body part, organ, or cavity for medicinal or hygienic purposes".


    I can fully understand that the message was not clear enough, that was my mistake. I was by no means trying to write a poem, it's just what came to mind.

    I know it doesn't justify anything, and it will even seem contradictory, but I didn't take a hard line because I wanted to leave the door open for him to come back and say he wants to change, while at the same time, I didn't feel like in his current state he deserved much more of a reply at all.

    I know it's mixed up, but matters like this always are aren't they? He was a very close very good friend for a good long time, it's hard to just say "get away I never want to see you again", while simultaneously I'm so hurt and angry that I don't want to talk to him at all.

    So fuck you, stop the name calling, this is already hard enough.. and there are not always absolutes when you're dealing with these situations.
    Yeah, then what you say is "Don't come back until you get your act together." Nothing about what you sent says "If you want to and you can get your life together, come back and we'll be bros again." The damn thing reads like the worst Dear John letter ever, and you sent it as a TEXT MESSAGE. I'm not sure you understand how hurtful it is to get a message like that with no good goddamn reason at all attached, and how little motivation there is after getting something like that to ever talk to the sender again, OR fix anything that was broken because hell, you don't know. What some people here are trying to say is that if you're serious about how you feel and you really might want to speak to him again someday, then do this again the right way. And if you actually want him to take you seriously, maybe you should apologize for treating him like a one-night stand.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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