Hey there H/A. It's me again.
The Story:
So I have(had?) this very good friend. I met him through my workplace about 3-4 years ago, and he was a very interesting dude. I liked his social circle and over the course of a few months kind of grew out of my old social circle and into his.
Fast forward to early last year. I moved in with him and 2 other room mates Peter and Rick, it was much fun, much partying and drinking occured for a good 7-8 months of damn near being brothers with the guy in question, call him Stan.
about 6 months ago Stan met his new Girlfriend Regina. Stan and Regina hit it off, both were cool people and seemed to fit in just great. Until Regina found herself low on cash and asked Stan to "save" her from having to move back to her mom several states away.
Stan told Rick that he was moving out with 5 days notice. Stan didn't tell me or Peter, we had to find out mid-week through Rick that Stan was moving out. Much hosility was had.
Stan all but dissapears into his new apartment with Regina and doesn't bother to talk much less apologize to Peter or I for about 2 weeks. When he does he plays it off like no big deal, it doesn't matter, etc etc. We move past this and forgive him and proceed to eat drink and be merry.
So, for the last 5 1/2 months Stan has developed the habit of treating Rick Peter and myself much the way he treats complete strangers, which is to say, he lies to us all the time about all the amazing things he owns, postures himself and his job as being far more than either actually are. General macho posturing BS that only idiots do in the first place. This is a step backward in terms of years for Stan. Peter Rick and myself are all very confused and somewhat angered by this.
Fast forward again to 2 weeks ago, when Stan gets into a big argument with Regina, possibly involving minor domestic abuse (no one was actually hurt) but violence was had nonetheless, Stan breaks into our house and sleeps on our couch, in the morning he tells us a story involving Regina overreacting to Stan's Ex-girlfriend being in the same restaurant as they were, suffice it to say the story painted him as a helpless victim of circumstance who did nothing wrong.
Last weekend we hear another side of the story, where Stan is a violent emotionally cheating asshole (confirmed) possibly with actual real sex having cheating as well.. Rick Peter and I are all disgusted, and are very leery of the fact that Stan would break into our house and bring all of this down on our heads when there is a very real possibility the police might even have become involved at this point.
The break-in incident combined with his general slide backwards into a lying mistrustful jerk has led Rick Peter and myself to completely ignore Stan at this point. We don't want him in our lives, and we certainly don't want him to think it's ok to ever break into our house, ESPECIALLY when the police might be involved and we all have to be at work in the morning.
Questions:
1) How justified are we in cutting this guy out of our lives? It feels like he's been given more second chances than anyone deserves, but our history makes it hard to act on his recent goosebaggery.
2) Do we owe him an explanation? I feel like I should send him a text or email explaining why he's being cut off, but I don't really even want to talk to him at this point, I'm just disgusted with him and I feel like explaining what he did wrong would be interpreted as another chance to change and be part of the group again.
*names changed, mostly for my amusement.
Posts
He does deserve a cursory explanation even if it's just "we don't like the person you've become and don't want to have anything to do with you. Never come into our house again. You do not live here anymore and you are no longer welcome." If you want to do this by email instead of face-to-face, then that seems pretty reasonable.
If you don't say anything he probably won't know why you all decided to stop talking to him, and so he'll just show up asking why and it'll get very awkward.
However I do agree that the situation needs some form of closure.
If it's the way you all feel, tell him to his face and do it together...put up a unified front and be honest. Maybe that'll get it through his skull what a goose he's being.
Why does it need more closure? If you're already ignoring him and not hanging out with him then I think that's enough personally.
1) Extremely justified. He's turned into a grade-A Silly Goose for multiple reasons (the posturing, the alleged domestic abuse, cheating, breaking/sneaking into your place)
2) "You're a giant douchebag, fuck off" is probably all the explanation that needs to be offered.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I feel like it may have been a little soft, but I feel like it gets the point across.
Honestly it sounds like you're being kind of a drama queen or you don't really know how to be a good friend so I guess for both your sakes it would be better if you just ended it.
This is the most bullshit line I have ever read. It's almost as bad as what that other guy got in that other similar thread.
You should have just manned up and tell him you don't like his current attitude or all the drama he's bringing into your guys life.
Agreed. You didn't get your point across, you mired it in bullshit. And a text? Look, I'm not saying the guy deserves a breakup dinner, but this was just a giant cock-up of a breakup.
There's a huge difference between crashing unannounced because of a fight, and fleeing the scene when you know the cops have been called after you just commited a violent act against your girlfriend because you can't handle taking responsibility for your own actions.
I don't disagree, but the point isn't to tell him he's full of shit and make a serious point, the point is to tell him we don't want to see him anymore.
Have you tried reaching out to the guy? I mean you lived with him for 9 months partying, having a great time, being bros and all.
It sucks he bailed on your guys' lease with almost no notice, but hey, it was his girlfriend and you said they were two peas in a pod. It sucks, but I can understand it, but then for him just to switch personalities?
I don't know, is there something else going on other than just this dude hiding the fact he was an asshole for 9 months when you guys were brosephs?
Stan has always proclaimed himself as an asshole. He's never claimed to be anything else. It was just never directed at us until he moved out.
The violence is a pattern we've seen in his previous relations as well.
He's definitely an alcoholic, and he calls his mom (also an alcoholic) and she reinforces his behavior. He calls her almost daily.
Pile on top of those issues the fact that he's immature as a kindergartner and can NOT handle being wrong in any way, and well it's no suprise that he acts the way he does, just a suprise that he acts that way towards us.
I'm confused, why were you so buddy buddy with this guy while living with each other? I mean if he's acted this way before and you knew about it, it really shouldn't be that shocking that he's now treating you poorly.
I'd say you don't owe him much of anything, but in my experience with cutting toxic people out of my life it makes it a lot easier to be up front and explain what you're doing and why. This why you don't continually get the "What am I doing wrong?" conversations out of them.
So, call him on it. Tell him he's behaving unacceptably and he's not welcome with you or in your home anymore.
And where exactly did you tell him that?
At this point though, having said what I said, I don't see any need to clarify. If he's confused and wants clarification he can call/text/show up and we'll have a sit down talk.
I think the path forward is pretty clear at this point.
1) If he doesn't care and walks away, leave it at what it is.
2) If he does care and asks, be up front, tell him exactly what it is that's caused the trouble.
I suppose the difference is being on the receiving end now instead of being on the inside looking out. I don't understand how he has any of the friends he's had besides us honestly, considering we were the only ones he didn't treat like that (until recently, obviously)
Fair enough. Except the part where you DIDNT TELL HIM YOU DONT WANT TO SEE HIM ANYMORE.
Hell, you even 1/2 expect him to contact you just so you can go over a list of the bullshit he's done to deserve it.
Thats the part you're screwing up. Focus on the result - him, out of your life. Thats done with declaritive, ordered instructions - not waxing poetic about how much deceit their is in the world.
Try a new text:
Stan - I really don't like you anymore, your 'tude really is unbearable. Talked this over with Rick, he shares the same opinion. You are no longer welcome at the apt. Do not come over. We dont want to socialize with you anymore - do not call, text, or e-mail. We both hope you become a better person, but its not our job to make sure that you do. Good luck out there in the world.
I'm all for cutting people out of your life for your own health and well-being, but you handled this very badly. A text? Really? Talking about how you can't see him and how messed up the world is? I think I want what you were smoking when you thought that text was poetic or whatever it is someone thinks when they come up with some vague flowery line about this crazy, messed-up world but actually are just hurting someone's feelings and doing everything they can to be vague. It's so patronizing, and this guy, for a while anyway, was your friend.
WildEEP's post - that's what you should tell him, preceded by an apology for what a silly goose you were to send a text like that. You can probably safely go ahead and replace "silly goose" with "a jet or current of water, sometimes with a dissolved medicating or cleansing agent, applied to a body part, organ, or cavity for medicinal or hygienic purposes".
I can fully understand that the message was not clear enough, that was my mistake. I was by no means trying to write a poem, it's just what came to mind.
I know it doesn't justify anything, and it will even seem contradictory, but I didn't take a hard line because I wanted to leave the door open for him to come back and say he wants to change, while at the same time, I didn't feel like in his current state he deserved much more of a reply at all.
I know it's mixed up, but matters like this always are aren't they? He was a very close very good friend for a good long time, it's hard to just say "get away I never want to see you again", while simultaneously I'm so hurt and angry that I don't want to talk to him at all.
So fuck you, stop the name calling, this is already hard enough.. and there are not always absolutes when you're dealing with these situations.
You can't have it both ways.
yes you can, if you care for the person but they are damaging your life and won't accept help, you say 'i have tried reaching out to you, and i have put up with more than i should be asked to, so until you figure your shit out and are in a place to be a friend again, i don't want to see you. i love you man, we had good times, but you don't seem to want to act like a friend anymore, so i am done acting like a punching bag.'
now, this obviously depends on you already being a friend and sitting him down to have a talk where you try and help him, and give him warnings that behavior like that won't be allowed.