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[WoW] [Chat]: Rock is Overpowered, Scissors Needs Buff, Paper is Fine

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Posts

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Balance/Ele spirit solution is elegant.

    It's beautiful in its simplicity.

    Definitely makes gearing for Resto/DPS spec much easier.

    reVerse on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2010
    End wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    They've already said that characters wth exp bonuses are not eligible for world firsts. Dunno if that includes heirlooms.

    Where did they say this? And is this specifically talking about RAF?
    I think it was one of the Twitter chats. Definitely aimed at RAF but not sure about heirlooms. I'll try to dig up a quote when I get out of work.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Confused???
    The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

    Then what the hell is the point of plate?

    Plate will have strength on it, and it'll still have somewhat higher mitigation.

    reVerse on
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Wait, so does this mean that I can use one set of gear for Protection Tanking AND Retribution DPS?!

    Fantastic!

    Samphis on
  • OhtsamOhtsam Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Confused???
    The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

    Then what the hell is the point of plate?

    It seems armor classes will be used more to differentiate between what classes should use that piece of gear then providing more protection.

    Of course if thats the case then plate classes should get plate earlier on or right at creation.

    Ohtsam on
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Confused???
    The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

    Then what the hell is the point of plate?

    Plate will have strength on it, and it'll still have somewhat higher mitigation.

    I guess the vague quantifier "so much more" threw me

    what does that mean?

    EDIT: also if what Ohtsam said is their intention

    i am still angry

    Arch on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Confused???
    The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

    Then what the hell is the point of plate?

    It's probably more to balance out the survivability of the DPS melee classes.

    I think tanking plate will still get bonus armor (like a lot of the ICC plate has).

    Nobody on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2010
    No, because tanking gear will have parry, block and dodge!

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Samphis wrote: »
    Wait, so does this mean that I can use one set of gear for Protection Tanking AND Retribution DPS?!

    Fantastic!
    Unless you want to block a lot and crit less as Ret I wouldn't.

    edit:
    tank gear = str, stam, hit, exp, dodge, parry, block, mastery
    dps gear = str, stam, hit, exp, crit, haste, mastery

    815165 on
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I don't want to balance the melee survivability

    thats silly

    Arch on
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    Samphis wrote: »
    Wait, so does this mean that I can use one set of gear for Protection Tanking AND Retribution DPS?!

    Fantastic!
    Unless you want to block a lot and crit less as Ret I wouldn't.

    Meh. Rereading it, I see where I goofed. Still, though, it'd be awesome to not have to carry around 3 entire sets of gear.

    Samphis on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I am thoroughly glad that ret pallies and enh shaman etc are not only getting extra spellpower based on gear (which is already the case) but mana without intellect. Kind of a benign issue in 80 raid gear, but as levelling it was horrid.

    Javen on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    These changes all sound like things that can only make the game more fun. Looking forward till 4.0. :^:

    815165 on
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Confused???
    The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

    Then what the hell is the point of plate?

    Yeah. Really?

    Does he mean that the difference between categories isn't going to be so dramatically different, but still different enough or is it going to be lolzclothtanksthx! different?

    ironzerg on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    No, because tanking gear will have parry, block and dodge!

    Yah, because avoidance tanking has always been the way to go!

    Why would you want to balance plate this late in the game? That's just stupid. The point of plate is survivability...that's the entire god damn point. That's why we rolled plate classes, we like not being squishy.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Sounds like the armor changes are for peeveepeeee (along with the general normalization of stamina pools)

    Naphtali on
    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
  • jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    AP isn't really enough to tank anyway. Moonkins have plate equivalent AP and they can't tank (except maybe in PVP gear and way overgeared). It will probably just make leveling a priest a little less miserable.

    jackal on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Sounds like the armor changes are for peeveepeeee (along with the general normalization of stamina pools)

    Yeah, pretty much. It can take a while to kill a plate wearer if you're a physical DPS class, whereas clothies go down real quick. I think the idea is that everyone will have more armor and thus will take more time to kill.

    PvP fights lasting longer has been their design goal for a while now, after all.

    reVerse on
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Looking forward to healing that doesn't involve slipping for a second and watching the DPS get splatted.

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Sounds like the armor changes are for peeveepeeee (along with the general normalization of stamina pools)

    I think they also wanted to get away from 'everyone not wearing plate is automatically 1 shot in a raid environment' - Also raid damage auras hurting the some dps classes much worse than other - those auras are there to tax the healers, not give the mages a heart attack.

    LockeCole on
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    ironzerg on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Sounds like the armor changes are for peeveepeeee (along with the general normalization of stamina pools)

    They've commented on how the health pools are too low in multiple PvE situations, so it's not just that.

    Javen on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Some thoughts:

    Hit: Ugh, that could be shitty. "Ratings will be steeper in Cataclysm, and creatures in later tiers of content will be harder to hit or crit, similar to how level-83 mobs are harder to hit or crit than level-80 mobs." For most casters, if you're not hit capped, hit tends to be your highest scaling stat, and oh boy, now you'll have to be asking things like "what the hell is the hit cap for this tier of content?".

    Alternatively, they could make it scale weak enough where it's more similar to other stats, so that hitting hit cap isn't much of a concern. Unfortunately, the actual effect missing has is pretty different by class, since you have considerations like how a miss figures into a rotation (also, interrupts would have to have help if the fight makes it mandatory). This could be solved by giving spells the ability to have an alternative effect if missed, but I don't like the damage difference from missing to critting.

    Crit: Unlike hit, I think making it harder to crit in later tiers is probably the right way to go. Hopefully it converts right so scaling doesn't vary too much by tier.

    Weapon Skill: Obviously noone hates this change.

    Automatic Gear Conversion: Well, that might be annoying, since a lot of gear for clothy casters is potentially ambiguous right now. Healer gear will still have some int on it at least, so it won't be a huge deal, since replacing gear will be expected anyway.

    Gem Recoloring: I think that's a good thing. Blue is a pretty weak color right now, and red has nearly everything everyone wants. Maybe choosing what gem to put into a slot won't be so brainless.

    Mastery: Ok, I finally understand. Each tree defines what you get out of mastery, and how many points you put into a tree define how much you get per point of mastery. If say, destruction gave crit rating, and you went all the way down the tree, each point of mastery would give 4 points of crit rating, whereas only going half way down the tree would only give 2 points of crit rating per point of mastery. Or whatever.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    Looking forward to healing that doesn't involve slipping for a second and watching the DPS get splatted.
    This is all it takes for me to play my Resto Shaman full time. I hate healing being limited by GCD but I like thinking about healing efficiently to make my mana last.
    End wrote: »
    Hit: Ugh, that could be shitty. For most casters, if you're not hit capped, hit tends to be your highest scaling stat, and oh boy, now you'll have to be asking things like "what the hell is the hit cap for this tier of content?".
    Considering aside from the heroics -> raids jump we always have months between tiers, I don't think this will be a big deal in the long run.

    815165 on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar amount of armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    reVerse on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'm thinking they're just upping the armor values on lower armor tiers, not taking away from plate. Something like instead of cloth being 1 and plate being 10 now cloth will be 5 and plate will still be 10.

    Opty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    That thing that just flew over your head, that was the point you missed.

    Of course I will know it's a Paladin, but why will it matter? He does the same damage as <insert class here>, is just as hard to kill as <insert class here>, and aside from a few fluff details, could be <insert class here>.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    LockeCole wrote: »
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Sounds like the armor changes are for peeveepeeee (along with the general normalization of stamina pools)

    I think they also wanted to get away from 'everyone not wearing plate is automatically 1 shot in a raid environment' - Also raid damage auras hurting the some dps classes much worse than other - those auras are there to tax the healers, not give the mages a heart attack.

    weren't most raid damage auras magic damage specifically to prevent this?

    also don't rogues get AOE avoidance talents specifically to prevent this?

    Arch on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    That thing that just flew over your head, that was the point you missed.

    Of course I will know it's a Paladin, but why will it matter? He does the same damage as <insert class here>, is just as hard to kill as <insert class here>, and aside from a few fluff details, could be <insert class here>.

    Are you seriously saying that an Arcane Mage and a Ret Paladin play identically?

    Um...

    You're playing one of these classes wrong.

    reVerse on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Armor class already means little in terms of survivability, I find it a lot easier to kill a Hunter than I do a frost Mage.

    815165 on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The increase from mail to plate alone is something like 66%. I think they want to make it a bit less extreme.
    815165 wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Hit: Ugh, that could be shitty. For most casters, if you're not hit capped, hit tends to be your highest scaling stat, and oh boy, now you'll have to be asking things like "what the hell is the hit cap for this tier of content?".
    Considering aside from the heroics -> raids jump we always have months between tiers, I don't think this will be a big deal in the long run.

    I don't like juggling multiple hit caps as is. :( It wouldn't that much of a concern, except there's usually at least a few lingering hard modes I haven't done yet when they add a new tier of content.

    On second thought, I think I'm more concerned about my second paragraph holding true though, since they also say "All ratings will be much harder to "cap out" at maximum gear levels".

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Now in general I wish there was a little more coordination among healers, but the current damage model we have just doesn't really allow it. I remember when tanking Molten Core, that the priest would say over vent "Big heal coming on the OT!" as he powered up a Greater Heal. You don't have that luxury these days. One of our designers was watching an old Illidan video recently and remarked how everyone was at 50% for so much of the fight. Now days someone is at 100%, will hit 100% in the next couple of GCDs, or will be dead. In that environment, you'd get "Big --" out of your mouth before it would be too late. Players need more health and heals have to be a little more expensive[/QUOTE

    This is, ultimately, why I think they're making stamina values so much higher. They want to get away from this being the status quo.

    Javen on
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    That thing that just flew over your head, that was the point you missed.

    Of course I will know it's a Paladin, but why will it matter? He does the same damage as <insert class here>, is just as hard to kill as <insert class here>, and aside from a few fluff details, could be <insert class here>.

    Are you seriously saying that an Arcane Mage and a Ret Paladin play identically?

    Um...

    You're playing one of these classes wrong.


    Its a flavor issue not a playing issue

    If the only thing to differentiate between a warlock and a death knight is "one melees and one casts spells" but both have dots and both have pets then it kind of removes some of the flavor of each class

    if the "plate" designation is just there so that only melee dps use it (in addition to only having stats melee can utilize) then why not just remove armor class entirely and put "can only be used by X, x, and x classes" on the item

    Arch on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    That thing that just flew over your head, that was the point you missed.

    Of course I will know it's a Paladin, but why will it matter? He does the same damage as <insert class here>, is just as hard to kill as <insert class here>, and aside from a few fluff details, could be <insert class here>.

    Are you seriously saying that an Arcane Mage and a Ret Paladin play identically?

    Um...

    You're playing one of these classes wrong.

    I'm sorry, did pressing 1-9 change recently? Do Mages press it backwards, maybe 9-1?

    I've played nearly every class in WoW to some max level (some 60, some 70, some 80, depending on the time frame), and there aren't as many play differences as people think. Homogenizing all of their stat values basically removes 50% of what makes a class, a class.

    It's a terrible idea, and one I can't believe anyone is defending.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar amount of armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    The differences would focus on play-style and class mechanics. Not, I want to DPS, but don't want to die in one shot in raids...guess I have to play a Pal/DK.

    Similarly, those people who want to run around in plate armor with big swords aren't punished with lower DPS because they don't want to prance around in a bath robe, waving their finger all about.

    Instead, you can choose based on the feel and mechanics of the class you enjoy, and not feel like you're being punished or force to make a trade-off when it comes to survivability.

    And what you described in your post above has nothing to do with cloth/leather/mail/plate...it is all about the mechanics of the class. So, in a nutshell, you should be able to distinctly say that golden wing sprouting, two handed mace wielding death machine IS a paladin.

    Hence, maybe it's a move to make classes defined more by their mechanics and style, and less by what type of armor they're wearing.

    ironzerg on
  • OhtsamOhtsam Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Javen wrote: »
    Now in general I wish there was a little more coordination among healers, but the current damage model we have just doesn't really allow it. I remember when tanking Molten Core, that the priest would say over vent "Big heal coming on the OT!" as he powered up a Greater Heal. You don't have that luxury these days. One of our designers was watching an old Illidan video recently and remarked how everyone was at 50% for so much of the fight. Now days someone is at 100%, will hit 100% in the next couple of GCDs, or will be dead. In that environment, you'd get "Big --" out of your mouth before it would be too late. Players need more health and heals have to be a little more expensive

    This is, ultimately, why I think they're making stamina values so much higher. They want to get away from this being the status quo.

    I really hope this means they'll allow downranking to be viable again since it seems mana management will actually exist.

    Ohtsam on
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    How is this even a thing? They are making everything simpler and easier! That's not the same as making a Death Knight and a Priest the same thing.

    Samphis on
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    ironzerg wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So basically, they're looking to remove the difference in survivability between classes, and focus more on the powers of each class.

    So ideally, a plate-wearing paladin would be able to DPS in the same class as a mage now, while the mage in cloth is going to experience similar durability/survivability of the paladin, class differences aside.

    So it seems like a move away from the tough as nails, but can't do any damage archetype of a plate class, as well as the glass cannon, sneeze on you and you die archetype of the cloth classes.

    Seems like it could work.

    Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Why have classes at all? Just let us pick from a pool of powers Champions style. Seriously, there is no point in even having classes if everyone is going to end up with similar armor values, health pools, mana pools and damage numbers.

    Yeah, if a Ret Paladin and an Arcane Mage have similar amount of armor, health and DPS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THEM APART! Shit Christ, is that plate-wearing, golden wings sprouting, two-handed mace wielding death machine a Warlock or a Druid? WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!

    The differences would focus on play-style and class mechanics. Not, I want to DPS, but don't want to die in one shot in raids...guess I have to play a Pal/DK.

    Similarly, those people who want to run around in plate armor with big swords aren't punished with lower DPS because they don't want to prance around in a bath robe, waving their finger all about.

    Instead, you can choose based on the feel and mechanics of the class you enjoy, and not feel like you're being punished or force to make a trade-off when it comes to survivability.

    And what you described in your post above has nothing to do with cloth/leather/mail/plate...it is all about the mechanics of the class. So, in a nutshell, you should be able to distinctly say that golden wing sprouting, two handed mace wielding death machine IS a paladin.

    Hence, maybe it's a move to make classes defined more by their mechanics and style, and less by what type of armor they're wearing.

    That is the point that Blizzard made, and the counter point is always "then why have different armor classes at all?"

    Arch on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Arch wrote: »


    Its a flavor issue not a playing issue

    If the only thing to differentiate between a warlock and a death knight is "one melees and one casts spells" but both have dots and both have pets then it kind of removes some of the flavor of each class

    if the "plate" designation is just there so that only melee dps use it (in addition to only having stats melee can utilize) then why not just remove armor class entirely and put "can only be used by X, x, and x classes" on the item

    This. You said it much better than I did.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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