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[WoW] [Raiding] It's like a big fat guy in a doorway

Lilac CitizenLilac Citizen Registered User regular
edited April 2011 in MMO Extravaganza
WoW PvE Raiding

Every casual MMO gamer can get into the WoW raiding scene. From the "casual" player who does two raids per week (8 hours), a few PvP battlegrounds (4 hours), picks up a couple levels on the alt (4 hours), and farms a bit (4 hours), to the "casual" player who raids four hours a day, six days a week, plus alts.

Whether you're casually slugging your way through Trial of the Crusader 10 man or casually fighting the Lich King on 25 man heroic mode, WoW's raiding scene has something for you.

Useful Links:
  • Tankspot Tutorial Videos: This is the best source for general overviews on new bosses. More detailed discussion is usually available in the comments thread for each video, and elsewhere on the site. This generally seems to be the place to start for any wow PvE raid strategic information
  • WoWHead is a great place to get detailed information on boss abilities and loot, there's also a solid amount of anecdotal information in the comments on any boss.
  • Elitist Jerks: There's usually some helpful strategic discussion here, but beware the moderators. They can and will ban you for just about anything, from grammatical mistakes the moderators themselves make to posting useless messages like "Thanks for the hard work guys!"
  • Penny Arcade Forums - MMO Extravaganza: Find the thread for your class when you're looking to start raiding, and use the info in the OP to sanity check your gear and talents. Just because you see a lot of big numbers doesn't mean that your hemo daggers, 2h enhancement, or shockadin build is actually doing a lot of damage per second.
  • MMO-Champion: Great source for pre-release info on boss abilities and loot, or reading developer feedback.

Original post:
Somebody made an excel spreadsheet of every raider in my guild and how many times they were hit by malleable goo along with information such as goo hits/raid, %goos hit by, etc

I'm pretty sure that one of our hunters and shadow priests are intentionally going out of their way to find goo to hit them, since I don't see how you could get hit by 1/5 goos purely by not moving

Lilac Citizen on
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    rizriz Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I feel that the "sproing!" sound that DXE makes when malleable goo comes out is so appropriate. Something about them is cute.

    riz on
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    Super NamicchiSuper Namicchi Orange County, CARegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    argh trying to pug malygos is like peeling off toenails

    VEHICLE MECHANICS WHEEEEEE

    Super Namicchi on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I did Malygos exactly ONCE for the Acheivement and Never Again!


    Unless it's the weekly.

    shryke on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I believe that Malleable Goo was invented purely to screw with people who rely on DBM.

    (for those that don't know, on 25man two Goos are thrown out. Because both of them pick a target simultaneously, only one of them is given an alert)

    I needed anime to post. on
    liEt3nH.png
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    rizriz Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    As long as you get one alert though, you should be able to look up and see the flying goo...

    Yes I know that's asking a lot of some people.

    riz on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I believe that Malleable Goo was invented purely to screw with people who rely on DBM.

    (for those that don't know, on 25man two Goos are thrown out. Because both of them pick a target simultaneously, only one of them is given an alert)

    Welp, we're boned.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    There's a timer bar for malleable goo anyway though, right?

    So it shouldn't matter, then

    Javen on
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    Lilac CitizenLilac Citizen Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    yeah, you'd think it wouldn't be that tough, especially for ranged deeps

    Healing on Putricide feels like texting while driving to me. You have to spend most of your time looking at the phone obviously, but if you don't look up at the road every few seconds you'll get splattered

    oh well, we may raid 4 nights a week, but I'll still say we're "casual" so failure IS an option

    Lilac Citizen on
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    NeylaNeyla Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    argh trying to pug malygos is like peeling off toenails

    VEHICLE MECHANICS WHEEEEEE

    As long as you have atleast one person that knows how to fly the dragon just tell everyone to autofollow and press 1-1-2-1-1-2

    even puggies can handle that!*

    *Atleast one can hope

    Neyla on
    13142111181576.png
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    It is easier if you can down Festergut first. I'm not sure what it is that gives the debuff on Fester, I think it's the Pungent Blight. So if you can survive the fight with a hunter, mage, or rogue intact, you're golden.
    Or if you can wipe after a hunter, mage, or rogue gets the debuff with them able to leave combat.

    After that, go to Rotface. Make sure your mages know not to use iceblock, and your pallies not to bubble them, or put Divine Intervention on them. Have them get hit by the bilght spray, then run to the door while staying away from slimes and puddles. The rest of the raid stands in puddles, turns their back tot the boss and taunt's, sits down, whatever they can do to kill themselves as fast as possible. At this point, the mages would invis, the rogues would vanish, the hunters would feign death, hopefully not in an ooze puddle. Soon as the boss despawns, they get up, haul ass out of the room before respawn and wait by the questgiver for the rest of the raid to rejoin them before turning in teh quest.
    Is Pungent Blight the general raid AoE that's in the room? Meaning everyone should have the debuff 5 seconds into the fight? Seems like it would be easy enough to just have the healers spam heal the designated cowards while everyone else just dies to Festergut really quickly, then feign/vanish/etc. Unless the fact that there is still raid damage makes avoiding death not a possibility. Or are you saying it's the explosion AoE he does after 3 stacks that gives the debuff?

    I'm just trying to gauge if it would be possible to pull it off in a PUG that isn't competent enough to kill either boss.

    forty on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Neyla wrote: »
    argh trying to pug malygos is like peeling off toenails

    VEHICLE MECHANICS WHEEEEEE

    As long as you have atleast one person that knows how to fly the dragon just tell everyone to autofollow and press 1-1-2-1-1-2

    even puggies can handle that!*

    *Atleast one can hope
    If they're auto-following, won't Malygos be to their sides as the leader circle strafes around? There's also the issue of attrition to the rapebeam if people aren't playing correctly.

    I hate Malygos as a weekly too, but I think even more I hate it when it's a boss that isn't the first in a raid/wing since there's the possibility that the group of retards is too bad to kill Jaraxxus/Ignis/XT/Razorscale after we're locked to the raid.

    forty on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    We had someone argue with the RL last week that malleable goo was unavoidable.

    Bikkstah on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    The worst is when you're trying to figure out where the Goo is going, and the abom is between you and Prof, and then the goo comes flying through the abom and you go oh.

    I needed anime to post. on
    liEt3nH.png
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I usually keep my camera panned aaaaaaall the way back and at a pretty steep angle so I can see the goo get launched and in the general direction it's going, but it's sometimes hard to tell where exactly it's going to drop. It's a depth perception thing.

    Javen on
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    SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Doesn't DBM post two marks for goo?

    Skeith on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    DXE will tell you to move if you get Goo or someone near you does, regardless of difficulty level.

    Bikkstah on
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2010
    I demand the thread be renamed "Here's lookin' at goo, kid."

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Skeith wrote: »
    Doesn't DBM post two marks for goo?

    Nope. In fact, in the options for DBM, it explicitly states "only works for first target".
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I demand the thread be renamed "Here's lookin' at goo, kid."

    "Good goos, everyone!"

    I needed anime to post. on
    liEt3nH.png
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    KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Best one yet.

    KafkaAU on
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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    For people who have killed Arthas in 10 man, do you 2 or 3 heal it? For comparison, do you use 3 healers for other fights?

    shadowane on
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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Funnily enough I have the same question, except about Algalon 10man. (Yes, he's still incredibly hard even in ToC10/ICC10 gear)

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You need to 3 heal on Arthasw. The risk of having a healer carried off in P2 by a Val'Kyr is too great. You are then left with one healer to not only keep everyone topped off from Infest, but heal the tanks and any idiots getting hit by defile.

    Not sure on Algalon, haven't done that fight in about 6 months. The last time we did it in ToC gear we killed him right after the first Big Bang.

    Bikkstah on
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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Thanks Bikkstah. That's what Nobody had read just wanted to see what people's experiences were.

    Out of curiosity what other fights in ICC 10 do you 3 heal?

    shadowane on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    We 3 heal Festergut, Putricide, Blood Princes and Valithiria.

    Bikkstah on
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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You 3 heal Festergut but not Blood Queen? That's interesting.

    edit: We aren't as far as you but at the moment we 3 heal Princes just because it's way easier (makes it super boring though), Blood Queen, and Valithria. Tried 3 healing Sindragosa but that didn't go so well.

    shadowane on
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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Bikkstah wrote: »

    Not sure on Algalon, haven't done that fight in about 6 months. The last time we did it in ToC gear we killed him right after the first Big Bang.

    He casts big bang every 90 seconds.

    He has 8 million health.

    Either you're lying or you're not remembering correctly.

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Arkan wrote: »
    Bikkstah wrote: »

    Not sure on Algalon, haven't done that fight in about 6 months. The last time we did it in ToC gear we killed him right after the first Big Bang.

    He casts big bang every 90 seconds.

    He has 8 million health.

    Either you're lying or you're not remembering correctly.
    If it took 120 seconds and you consider the tanks as 1 dps (still probably slightly high but not terrible) the 6 real dps only need to do 9.5k dps.

    edit: I say only just because they've killed Arthas in 10 man so most likely a bunch of his dps are doing more at this point. My dps isn't that high yet.

    shadowane on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    shadowane wrote: »
    You 3 heal Festergut but not Blood Queen? That's interesting.

    edit: We aren't as far as you but at the moment we 3 heal Princes just because it's way easier (makes it super boring though), Blood Queen, and Valithria. Tried 3 healing Sindragosa but that didn't go so well.

    Festergut has heavy tank damage and AoE damage. Blood Queen's AoE is negated by a resto druid and the tank damage can be handled by a paladin, disc priest, or resto shaman. The fire, brain link, and air phase damage can be avoided entirely.

    Sindragosa can be single tanked by a druid in frost resist gear who will take almost no damage the entire fight, resisting frost breath and blistering cold completely most of the time, and able to powershift out of the debuff from frost breath. We've been doing this for 3 weeks now in both 10/25 man and it frees up a lot of DPS and makes the healing a lot easier.

    Bikkstah on
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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    shadowane wrote: »
    Arkan wrote: »
    Bikkstah wrote: »

    Not sure on Algalon, haven't done that fight in about 6 months. The last time we did it in ToC gear we killed him right after the first Big Bang.

    He casts big bang every 90 seconds.

    He has 8 million health.

    Either you're lying or you're not remembering correctly.
    If it took 120 seconds and you consider the tanks as 1 dps (still probably slightly high but not terrible) the 6 real dps only need to do 9.5k dps.

    edit: I say only just because they've killed Arthas in 10 man so most likely a bunch of his dps are doing more at this point. My dps isn't that high yet.

    In ToC gear it's still unlikely. I'd say it's far more likely that they killed him immediately before the second big bang, which is still a difference of more than a minute of "immediately after the first big bang" and he's just misremembering the timing.

    Immediately before the second big bang would only require about 8.5k dps across 6 DPS, minus whatever for the dps killing collapsing stars but plus for whatever the tanks are doing. It probably ends up about the same.

    Immediately after the first would take over 12000 dps per DPSer and I've never seen anyone hit that high outside of being in ICC25 gear.

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    If you have a disc priest or paladin I would say try two healing Festergut, we've two healed it the last two weeks with disc/holy priest and holy pally/holy priest combos and both were very fast kills. You can two heal Putricide as well but you are more open to RNG on goo/slime puddles at times.

    Naphtali on
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You 3 heal Festergut but not Blood Queen? That's interesting.

    edit: We aren't as far as you but at the moment we 3 heal Princes just because it's way easier (makes it super boring though), Blood Queen, and Valithria. Tried 3 healing Sindragosa but that didn't go so well.

    Festergut has heavy tank damage and AoE damage. Blood Queen's AoE is negated by a resto druid and the tank damage can be handled by a paladin, disc priest, or resto shaman. The fire, brain link, and air phase damage can be avoided entirely.

    Sindragosa can be single tanked by a druid in frost resist gear who will take almost no damage the entire fight, resisting frost breath and blistering cold completely most of the time, and able to powershift out of the debuff from frost breath. We've been doing this for 3 weeks now in both 10/25 man and it frees up a lot of DPS and makes the healing a lot easier.


    In Sindragosa, is it still 1 tank through phase 3 too?

    Nobody on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Yep. A druid can get to 555ish frost resist with 3 pieces of polar, the titanium frostguard ring, flask, enchants, and either aura or totem. This is enough to completely resist most frost breaths and blistering colds outright, and negate her aura as well. We usually kill her when I have around 50 stacks which is where a partially resisted frost breath starts to hit in the 20ks and needs to be cooldowned for.

    Bikkstah on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Oh yay a resist fight?

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    It doesn't need to be, it just makes it easy. The alternative/normal strategy is to use two tanks in 10 man and 3? in 25 man because the tanks need to use the tombs in P3 to LoS buffet. Not sure how warriors/paladins/DKs can clear snare besides Every Man for Himself, but if you have non-druid, non-human tanks you might be boned pretty bad on threat. The debuff from frost breath is supposed to stack and last 4 seconds, but it seems to be a 2 minute debuff in P1/P2. It's -50 per cent attack speed and -15 per cent movement speed. Also, high frost resist means your tank can ignore Chilled to the Bone and keep TPSing.

    Bikkstah on
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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    It doesn't need to be, it just makes it easy. The alternative/normal strategy is to use two tanks in 10 man and 3? in 25 man because the tanks need to use the tombs in P3 to LoS buffet. Not sure how warriors/paladins/DKs can clear snare besides Every Man for Himself, but if you have non-druid, non-human tanks you might be boned pretty bad on threat. The debuff from frost breath is supposed to stack and last 4 seconds, but it seems to be a 2 minute debuff in P1/P2. It's -50 per cent attack speed and -15 per cent movement speed. Also, high frost resist means your tank can ignore Chilled to the Bone and keep TPSing.

    Warriors can intervene people, paladins can use hand of freedom.

    Dunno about DKs. Depending on the interval/duration of the debuff they might be able to use Antimagic shell to clear it.

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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    NeylaNeyla Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Neyla wrote: »
    argh trying to pug malygos is like peeling off toenails

    VEHICLE MECHANICS WHEEEEEE

    As long as you have atleast one person that knows how to fly the dragon just tell everyone to autofollow and press 1-1-2-1-1-2

    even puggies can handle that!*

    *Atleast one can hope
    If they're auto-following, won't Malygos be to their sides as the leader circle strafes around? There's also the issue of attrition to the rapebeam if people aren't playing correctly.

    I hate Malygos as a weekly too, but I think even more I hate it when it's a boss that isn't the first in a raid/wing since there's the possibility that the group of retards is too bad to kill Jaraxxus/Ignis/XT/Razorscale after we're locked to the raid.

    Back in the day when Maly was fresh to us we did it that way with 25 mans. I dont recall us having any issues with it.

    I think it was because all the dragons spells are instant and not casts so they don't need to be facing maly (it's been a long time mind you).

    Neyla on
    13142111181576.png
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    It's usually 3-4 breaths per ground phase which I want to say is either 1 or 2 minutes.


    Intervening a person clears their debuffs? Or having someone intervene you does? Interveneing away from Sindragosa would cause her to turn towards the raid, and breath/cleave.

    Bikkstah on
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    rizriz Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Healing on Putricide feels like texting while driving to me. You have to spend most of your time looking at the phone obviously, but if you don't look up at the road every few seconds you'll get splattered

    This is an awesome analogy for healing in general. I disagree that Putricide is any different than many fights, though, I mean you can't just tunnel vision on your raid frames without [dying in the void zone/fire/goo] [not running out when you're some kind of bomb] [not getting interrupted by some kind of shout] [etc]. But still, haha.

    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I demand the thread be renamed "Here's lookin' at goo, kid."

    Oh my god. :lol::lol::lol:

    shadowane wrote: »
    For people who have killed Arthas in 10 man, do you 2 or 3 heal it? For comparison, do you use 3 healers for other fights?

    I wouldn't want to try two, because like they said, things that can take a healer entirely out of the fight (valks, Frostmourne) will fuck you over. We'll two-heal everything up to Dreamwalker. Generally three for hard modes, but two for Saurfang hard mode worked a lot better than three for us.

    Arkan wrote: »
    Funnily enough I have the same question, except about Algalon 10man. (Yes, he's still incredibly hard even in ToC10/ICC10 gear)

    This probably depends on your raid makeup. We always had three, with two on tanks (paladin or shaman and myself) and a druid rejuving the raid and kiting constellations. If you are having a DPS or the tanks handle constellations you could probably use two. Well. If one is a paladin. :P

    riz on
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    NeylaNeyla Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    So looking for a general thoughts on 25 Blood Queen:

    I subbed for 25 man last night, so I don't usually do that version. But I had a hard time finding logic in what the other priests wanted me to do. They were taking turns with fearward and Massdispel for fear+air phase. They said it was to ensure no one died from being feared into a group/clump, which i can somewhat understand, if the fear was longer then 2 secs...

    I dunno, didn't make sense to me wondering if anyone else did this?

    Neyla on
    13142111181576.png
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    LuqLuq Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Neyla wrote: »
    So looking for a general thoughts on 25 Blood Queen:

    I subbed for 25 man last night, so I don't usually do that version. But I had a hard time finding logic in what the other priests wanted me to do. They were taking turns with fearward and Massdispel for fear+air phase. They said it was to ensure no one died from being feared into a group/clump, which i can somewhat understand, if the fear was longer then 2 secs...

    I dunno, didn't make sense to me wondering if anyone else did this?

    We don't do this. They do blow all their fearwards and other anti fear stuff on the melee during the fear phase that coincides with a bite. That particular bite/fear combo can result in some nasty "luck", with melee being feared all right next to each other or feared away from their bite target yada yada.

    Luq on
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