Anyone suggesting they may some raids for 10 mans and some for 25 is vastly underestimating how many raids would exist in such an environment. As someone said, they tried it in TBC and we had Karazhan and that was it.
Why not get rid of having multiple raid sizes of the same raid instance altogether? Have the amount of players actually make sense for the raid itself. If it makes sense to have the raid be a 10-man, make it a 10-man, if you feel it needs to be more 'epic' in a scope that requires more players, make it a 25-man or whatever.
How they do it now is effectively doubling the amount of work they have to do as they need to balance it for two different group sizes. Thoughts?
Logistical nightmare. One night, you need 10 people for raid 1. The next night, you need 25 people for raid 2. The drama over who gets into that 10 man will be crazy.
Make all raids a minimum of 10 to get in on a sliding scale up to 25. Dungeon difficulty adjusts depending on total numbers in the instance. Loot tables also adjust as well so you get more drops with more people.
This would be incredibly complicated because of the varying number of tanks/healers required going from 10man to 25man.
Yeah. I kind of went into that thought using Diablo 2 as a model but it would be pretty tough to balance that right. The potential to cheese that system would be huge as well.
Yeah. I mean, think about it.
There are some abilities (saberlash clones) that hit a specific number of people, 2-3 depending on raid size. On 10man, you need 2 people to eat saberlash. On 25man, you need 3. If you had sliding raid sizes, where would the breakoff point be going from a saberlash that hits 2 people to a saberlash that hits 3? Would raid sizes slightly under that point be punished because they need to make the boss hit harder to tax healers more? Would raid sizes at exactly that number be punished because they have proportionately fewer DPS than raids slightly bigger or smaller? It'd be a nightmare to balance. Instead of blizzard designing 2 raids they'd basically need to design 15 raids.
(Saberlash is an ability some bosses have that makes them hit super-hard but they split their melee damage across a certain number of targets in melee range, and also refers to similar abilities. See: BQL, Marrowgar, the trap-spawned guardians before marrowgar, Koralon's meteor fists, etc)
That was the result of having most of the development staff consist of guild leaders from Everquest who had absolutely no ideas for raids besides what Everquest did: send as many people as you got at it and hope you win.
I remember way back during the early AQ40 development they were selling it as a massive outdoor raid requiring up to 80 people to complete. I am fairly certain they retracted that very, very quickly. AQ was a pretty solid place actually.
In most cases a guild will work best when fielding the least number of raids possible.
If you have enough for a 25m don't run two 10m (as guild sanctioned runs).
Guilds that raid together, stay together.
Spoken by someone who has never had to juggle 24 raid slots for 24 people with their own lifes and the problems that come with it that prevent that from being on time and at every raid.
While this is very true, something has to be said about how committed to a group a person choses to be. The argument has been made many times, but if you're on bowling team in a competitive league, are you not going to be structuring your after-work schedule around making sure you can be at the alley for Thursdays, 7-10 pm without fail? If it's just a pick-up league, having to miss the occaisional night because of whatever reason isn't going to let your team down as much. It makes it tougher on the captain, but ultimately there's less responsibility.
How does your example apply to running 10's vs 25's at all?
They both require organization and commitment. At least with 10's you have an easier time ensuring people are properly geared and care. For a 25, making sure all 24 other people have their shit together, proper gearing/gemming/enchanting/specing and learning the fucking strats, is hell on earth. I'm sure there will be guilds that go with 25's instead of 10's, i expect it to be common. But I think there will be just as many that go with 10's instead of 25's for a plethora of reasons.
In fact I'd go so far as to say for a semi-casual raiding guild, running 10's instead of 25's will do more to promote guild cohesiveness because you won't have a group of hardcore raiders suffering weekly at the hands of people who just show up but don't care too much. I've seen an absurd number of /gquits for this precise reason.
You're right - it is easier to organize 9 others than 24 others. That's kind of the point I was making too. Choosing the more difficult (not in performance, but in organizing) path requires more commitment. It's a lot harder for a casual group of folks to organize 25's with consistency than 10's. In order to do so they need a larger pool of raiders to draw on than a more focused, committed group. I don't see what's so contentious about this.
I'm not trying to argue that 25s players are "l337" or shit like that...just saying that leading/joining any raid group has a choice attached to it - do you want to be casual, or committed?
You can be committed and still have stuff come up that is more important than WoW. This remains just a video game.
I think we're going in circles here...
I'm not disagreeing. I choose not to go into super-hardcore guilds, not only because I doubt I could hack it skill-wise, but because I value my real life time more than the number of hours I would have to commit. For me, 8-12 hours of raiding per week is my absolute limit. But when I do choose a guild that matches my time allowances, I block off my time for them as if it was a intramural hockey league, or softball team or whatever organized social event that exists, because it's those other people's time I'd be wasting if I bailed on flaky reasons.
*note - this does exclude legitimate reasons. Work > play, always. As does family > play. But if the choice is the pub with some work buddies or the raid that I committed to, I'll take the rain check on the pub and catch them some other time.
We're not going in circles. Your argument is that 25 mans are the most time conservative and that "a guild works best" and "the guild that plays together, stays together", which simply aren't true. If you are in any sort of organized 25 man raiding guild, you vastly underestimate the time your officers spend working on logistics on running the guild. I led a 25 man guild by myself in Naxx/Ulduar, it collapsed and my heart broke, and now I'm an officer of my guild of 9 months and my time online has doubled. I certainly didn't miss this aspect from Naxx/Ulduar, but the alternative was not having an officer on one night a week which meant no raids which meant people would probably quit (and about 10 of them did).
Umm, dude - it wasn't me who said those original things. And you're saying the same thing I am - that the time committment to 25-man organization is more than a 10-man organization. That someone bailing on a 25's group is more costly than to the 10's group.
Where we're misunderstanding each other is you're looking at it from an officer's perspective, and I'm looking at it from a raider's perspective. For me, I follow through on the times I've committed to my raid group, because of everyone else setting aside their time for me - this includes the hard work of the officers to set up the raid in the first place.
I can't imagine the amount of time and effort a group of officers must dedicate to these hardcore guilds who put in 20-30 hours a week raiding. That's like having a second job...
Let's just have 120 person raids and if this motley crew manages to overcome said "Big Bad" then they'll get jaunty hats, mustaches (Yes even you ladies) and, of course, mounts made of BLACK HOLES. It's a HORSE MADE OUT OF BLACK HOLES?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
The new changes aren't Earth shattering as far as I'm concerned. I suppose it could bring about harm to some guilds, but the core group I run with should be unfazed.
It's also important that the raids are more streamlined. Right now, having 4 different raid lockout like ToC and ToGC is a pain. It's extra work, more recycled models and more recycled content.
There are incentives to going into a 25 man, getting 20% more loot per person is significant enough that the raids that are committed will still be doing 25 mans.
I would agree that this depends on a good balance of difficulty, it will need to be pretty well tuned for the rewards to still be worth the hassle of managing 15 more raiders.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Let's just have 120 person raids and if this motley crew manages to overcome said "Big Bad" then they'll get jaunty hats, mustaches (Yes even you ladies) and, of course, mounts made of BLACK HOLES. It's a HORSE MADE OUT OF BLACK HOLES?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
The new changes aren't Earth shattering as far as I'm concerned. I suppose it could bring about harm to some guilds, but the core group I run with should be unfazed.
Well... a mount made out of black holes? Something as cool as that will only be sold in the blizzard online store. :winky:
I'm sure there are a lot of guilds who wont be affected by this. But most of those guilds are either currently only running 10-man content as a guild anyway, or they have a much more stable roster of 25 than I've ever seen. With these changes as they are stated now, I would expect to see far fewer guilds committing to running 25 man raids every week. Casual guilds and extremely hardcore guilds will probably remain the same. But a large number of guilds in the middle are going to have problems. And I think those problems are going to hit them harder than the change from 40/20 to 25/10 raid sizes which happened when TBC was released.
TheTish on
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
As far as I can tell they aren't looking to do that though. Everything in that post screamed doing their best to ensure doing 10s or 25s is a choice for fun factor and not gear.
Which is something I support with everything in me.
Yeah, I've got nothing against this. And as someone else mentioned a page or two back: 10-man Legendaries!?
If they'd done that for Uld we'd probably have 2-3 Val'anyrs in my guild instead of 8 fragments.
I don't care about throwing the hammer into the maw bit (that could stay 25man), but the fragments...those should have dropped in 10man, dammit. :x
No.
All or nothing.
It would be colossally idiotic if they were to give you everything you needed to craft a legendary in 10's and then said "olol this last part has to be done on the last phase of the last boss of hard mode on 25's only"
Either don't give it to 10's or fully give it. It wouldn't be ok in any wway at all if they required you to do something vastly different than you, your raid and your guild has or could do, to complete a legendary.
I'm fine with the items you need, shards for example, being valid from both 10 man and 25 man.
I'm just saying that once you're ready to craft it and you know, skewer Deathwing to forge a blade, they shouldn't force you to do it in 25 man if they're letting you do the collections and quests in 10's.
We just had shitty luck with fragments for a long time. We got stuck on XT for a couple weeks. Then Kolo for about 3-4 weeks for some reason. Then Auriaya kept rocking our world. Finally we got past her and spent the remaining 6-8 weeks pretty much clearing another boss each week until we'd done Vezax a couple times. We only spent a few raids working on Yogg. Never downed him 25. In all those raids we snagged I think 7 shards. 4 went to our GL, the other 3 dropped the one 25man he missed due to work, and I got them. That was while we were still working on Auriaya. The rest of the time I think we got one shard to drop.
Oh and we got one a couple weeks ago when Razorscale was the weekly.
I suppose so, but I would have been okay with halfway, since it would have been a significant improvement over the status quo. :P
Edit: Also, @Tofystedeth, we cleared Yogg on 25man normal 3 or 4 times, and did a bunch of hard modes, and probably only still got only double the amount you got. :-/
I think the second person only got 5 or 6 of them, and at that point we lost interest.
Edit2: Actually, getting double might be about right if we have the same luck.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Make all raids a minimum of 10 to get in on a sliding scale up to 25. Dungeon difficulty adjusts depending on total numbers in the instance. Loot tables also adjust as well so you get more drops with more people.
This would be incredibly complicated because of the varying number of tanks/healers required going from 10man to 25man.
Yeah. I kind of went into that thought using Diablo 2 as a model but it would be pretty tough to balance that right. The potential to cheese that system would be huge as well.
Yeah. I mean, think about it.
There are some abilities (saberlash clones) that hit a specific number of people, 2-3 depending on raid size. On 10man, you need 2 people to eat saberlash. On 25man, you need 3. If you had sliding raid sizes, where would the breakoff point be going from a saberlash that hits 2 people to a saberlash that hits 3? Would raid sizes slightly under that point be punished because they need to make the boss hit harder to tax healers more? Would raid sizes at exactly that number be punished because they have proportionately fewer DPS than raids slightly bigger or smaller? It'd be a nightmare to balance. Instead of blizzard designing 2 raids they'd basically need to design 15 raids.
(Saberlash is an ability some bosses have that makes them hit super-hard but they split their melee damage across a certain number of targets in melee range, and also refers to similar abilities. See: BQL, Marrowgar, the trap-spawned guardians before marrowgar, Koralon's meteor fists, etc)
On that note, they REALLY need to find more creative ways to require multiple tanks in raids.
I'm getting tired of Saberlash clones.
shryke on
0
EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
As one of our guild's poster-children for "dumbass fury warrior" I fully support the idea of 10 man loot being 25 man loot, as it means a number of things:
1) I don't get guaranteed a #3-4 slot on the meters due to not being able to make the (competent) 25-man runs among our group of guilds
2) Blizz quits treating me like a second class citizen for not wanting to deal with an even larger set of mouth-breathing retards than I usually get to deal with
10-man legendaries would be an excellent addition, but if the poopsock brigade whines too much about that, I'd probably ignore it.
A downside is that our 10-man runs wouldn't be able to rely on overgearing some fights thanks to 1-2 25-man geared ringers, but I think we can probably learn to deal with that.
Man, after playing tonight I'm totally into these changes. Went on a PUG Uld25 run (having never done it before) and it was awful. Despite nearly everyone being in at *least* ToC gear, many in ICC gear....we still wiped at least once on each boss, we still had people fucking up keeping track of adds, standing in fires, etc.
Fuck 25 man.
Vincent Grayson on
0
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I think the point of a lot of the changes is to make the prestige factor a matter of doing it and not a matter of how many people you did it with.
Thus the same loot in 10/25 and the same lockout.
EDIT: And I have a strong suspicion the achievements will now be one and the same.
I'm still sure people will find a way to hoot and swing their dicks over being better than the next guy in spite of these changes. My guild is fairly small. Medium sized at the most. We run 10s because logistically that's all we can put together and most of us refuse to bring in pugs. I've always hated the mindset that "10 man raids don't count"
I think the point of a lot of the changes is to make the prestige factor a matter of doing it and not a matter of how many people you did it with.
Thus the same loot in 10/25 and the same lockout.
EDIT: And I have a strong suspicion the achievements will now be one and the same.
I'm still sure people will find a way to hoot and swing their dicks over being better than the next guy in spite of these changes. My guild is fairly small. Medium sized at the most. We run 10s because logistically that's all we can put together and most of us refuse to bring in pugs. I've always hated the mindset that "10 man raids don't count"
Why? What do you care what irrelevant people say?
Edit: I went to the thread about these changes in the official forums last night so that I could laugh at the idiocy I knew I'd find, and sure enough there was a deluge of tears. Good stuff.
I think the point of a lot of the changes is to make the prestige factor a matter of doing it and not a matter of how many people you did it with.
Thus the same loot in 10/25 and the same lockout.
EDIT: And I have a strong suspicion the achievements will now be one and the same.
I'm still sure people will find a way to hoot and swing their dicks over being better than the next guy in spite of these changes. My guild is fairly small. Medium sized at the most. We run 10s because logistically that's all we can put together and most of us refuse to bring in pugs. I've always hated the mindset that "10 man raids don't count"
Why? What do you care what irrelevant people say?
Edit: I went to the thread about these changes in the official forums last night so that I could laugh at the idiocy I knew I'd find, and sure enough there was a deluge of tears. Good stuff.
Yeah the first steps in really enjoying your time in a MMO is to stop caring about 1) what other people think about you/your guild and 2) what other guilds/players have/have done.
As soon as whether or not another guild has cleared x raid/heroic becomes irrelevant to you, you can start to focus on you getting them done and being happy with your accomplishments, regardless if its a server first or a server last.
And as soon as you stop caring if other players have as good, or better, gear than you, you can start enjoying more the gear you've personally earned.
That's my perspective anyway. I don't care if someone else has "been there, done that". It has no bearing on me going there, and doing that. And being happy with it.
I think the point of a lot of the changes is to make the prestige factor a matter of doing it and not a matter of how many people you did it with.
Thus the same loot in 10/25 and the same lockout.
EDIT: And I have a strong suspicion the achievements will now be one and the same.
I'm still sure people will find a way to hoot and swing their dicks over being better than the next guy in spite of these changes. My guild is fairly small. Medium sized at the most. We run 10s because logistically that's all we can put together and most of us refuse to bring in pugs. I've always hated the mindset that "10 man raids don't count"
Why? What do you care what irrelevant people say?
Edit: I went to the thread about these changes in the official forums last night so that I could laugh at the idiocy I knew I'd find, and sure enough there was a deluge of tears. Good stuff.
Yeah the first steps in really enjoying your time in a MMO is to stop caring about 1) what other people think about you/your guild and 2) what other guilds/players have/have done.
As soon as whether or not another guild has cleared x raid/heroic becomes irrelevant to you, you can start to focus on you getting them done and being happy with your accomplishments, regardless if its a server first or a server last.
And as soon as you stop caring if other players have as good, or better, gear than you, you can start enjoying more the gear you've personally earned.
That's my perspective anyway. I don't care if someone else has "been there, done that". It has no bearing on me going there, and doing that. And being happy with it.
It does kinda suck not being to earn certain pieces of gear not because you're not skilled, but because you can't find 24 other people who are. I like the idea (hopefully) of everything from 25 man, including the crazy achievements and the rewards for doing some of them (like fancy mounts and legendaries) being part of 10 man.
I think the point of a lot of the changes is to make the prestige factor a matter of doing it and not a matter of how many people you did it with.
Thus the same loot in 10/25 and the same lockout.
EDIT: And I have a strong suspicion the achievements will now be one and the same.
I'm still sure people will find a way to hoot and swing their dicks over being better than the next guy in spite of these changes. My guild is fairly small. Medium sized at the most. We run 10s because logistically that's all we can put together and most of us refuse to bring in pugs. I've always hated the mindset that "10 man raids don't count"
Why? What do you care what irrelevant people say?
Edit: I went to the thread about these changes in the official forums last night so that I could laugh at the idiocy I knew I'd find, and sure enough there was a deluge of tears. Good stuff.
Yeah the first steps in really enjoying your time in a MMO is to stop caring about 1) what other people think about you/your guild and 2) what other guilds/players have/have done.
As soon as whether or not another guild has cleared x raid/heroic becomes irrelevant to you, you can start to focus on you getting them done and being happy with your accomplishments, regardless if its a server first or a server last.
And as soon as you stop caring if other players have as good, or better, gear than you, you can start enjoying more the gear you've personally earned.
That's my perspective anyway. I don't care if someone else has "been there, done that". It has no bearing on me going there, and doing that. And being happy with it.
It does kinda suck not being to earn certain pieces of gear not because you're not skilled, but because you can't find 24 other people who are. I like the idea (hopefully) of everything from 25 man, including the crazy achievements and the rewards for doing some of them (like fancy mounts and legendaries) being part of 10 man.
So is there just going to be a huge pile of items on every 25-man boss you kill? Not a complaint, but it would just be odd popping a corpse and seeing 5-6 items all the time.
More like it means item costs won't be balanced around the assumption that people are farming emblems in both 10-man and 25-man every week. At least if Blizzard aren't dicks they won't.
Yeah, I only do 10-man and my one daily every day. I try for pug VoA 10 and 25 every week, too. It really stinks to have to wait 4 weeks to get a single piece of tier gear.
More like it means item costs won't be balanced around the assumption that people are farming emblems in both 10-man and 25-man every week. At least if Blizzard aren't dicks they won't.
You mean, I can get a tan now?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
More like it means item costs won't be balanced around the assumption that people are farming emblems in both 10-man and 25-man every week. At least if Blizzard aren't dicks they won't.
You mean, I can get a tan now?
Cataclysm may very well usher in a new age of seeing sunlight sometimes.
More like it means item costs won't be balanced around the assumption that people are farming emblems in both 10-man and 25-man every week. At least if Blizzard aren't dicks they won't.
You mean, I can get a tan now?
Cataclysm may very well usher in a new age of seeing sunlight sometimes.
That or have more alts in raids.... I know 2 people in my guild that have a 10 and 25 man on 4 alts...o_O
Posts
Logistical nightmare. One night, you need 10 people for raid 1. The next night, you need 25 people for raid 2. The drama over who gets into that 10 man will be crazy.
Yeah. I mean, think about it.
There are some abilities (saberlash clones) that hit a specific number of people, 2-3 depending on raid size. On 10man, you need 2 people to eat saberlash. On 25man, you need 3. If you had sliding raid sizes, where would the breakoff point be going from a saberlash that hits 2 people to a saberlash that hits 3? Would raid sizes slightly under that point be punished because they need to make the boss hit harder to tax healers more? Would raid sizes at exactly that number be punished because they have proportionately fewer DPS than raids slightly bigger or smaller? It'd be a nightmare to balance. Instead of blizzard designing 2 raids they'd basically need to design 15 raids.
(Saberlash is an ability some bosses have that makes them hit super-hard but they split their melee damage across a certain number of targets in melee range, and also refers to similar abilities. See: BQL, Marrowgar, the trap-spawned guardians before marrowgar, Koralon's meteor fists, etc)
Umm, dude - it wasn't me who said those original things. And you're saying the same thing I am - that the time committment to 25-man organization is more than a 10-man organization. That someone bailing on a 25's group is more costly than to the 10's group.
Where we're misunderstanding each other is you're looking at it from an officer's perspective, and I'm looking at it from a raider's perspective. For me, I follow through on the times I've committed to my raid group, because of everyone else setting aside their time for me - this includes the hard work of the officers to set up the raid in the first place.
I can't imagine the amount of time and effort a group of officers must dedicate to these hardcore guilds who put in 20-30 hours a week raiding. That's like having a second job...
Mmmmm....toasty.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
The new changes aren't Earth shattering as far as I'm concerned. I suppose it could bring about harm to some guilds, but the core group I run with should be unfazed.
There are incentives to going into a 25 man, getting 20% more loot per person is significant enough that the raids that are committed will still be doing 25 mans.
I would agree that this depends on a good balance of difficulty, it will need to be pretty well tuned for the rewards to still be worth the hassle of managing 15 more raiders.
There hasn't been any indication this will change.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
no u
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Well... a mount made out of black holes? Something as cool as that will only be sold in the blizzard online store. :winky:
I'm sure there are a lot of guilds who wont be affected by this. But most of those guilds are either currently only running 10-man content as a guild anyway, or they have a much more stable roster of 25 than I've ever seen. With these changes as they are stated now, I would expect to see far fewer guilds committing to running 25 man raids every week. Casual guilds and extremely hardcore guilds will probably remain the same. But a large number of guilds in the middle are going to have problems. And I think those problems are going to hit them harder than the change from 40/20 to 25/10 raid sizes which happened when TBC was released.
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
If they'd done that for Uld we'd probably have 2-3 Val'anyrs in my guild instead of 8 fragments.
No.
All or nothing.
It would be colossally idiotic if they were to give you everything you needed to craft a legendary in 10's and then said "olol this last part has to be done on the last phase of the last boss of hard mode on 25's only"
Either don't give it to 10's or fully give it. It wouldn't be ok in any wway at all if they required you to do something vastly different than you, your raid and your guild has or could do, to complete a legendary.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Of course, the first person we started giving shards flaked out on us...
I'm just saying that once you're ready to craft it and you know, skewer Deathwing to forge a blade, they shouldn't force you to do it in 25 man if they're letting you do the collections and quests in 10's.
That's what I mean by all or nothing.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Oh and we got one a couple weeks ago when Razorscale was the weekly.
Edit: Also, @Tofystedeth, we cleared Yogg on 25man normal 3 or 4 times, and did a bunch of hard modes, and probably only still got only double the amount you got. :-/
I think the second person only got 5 or 6 of them, and at that point we lost interest.
Edit2: Actually, getting double might be about right if we have the same luck.
On that note, they REALLY need to find more creative ways to require multiple tanks in raids.
I'm getting tired of Saberlash clones.
There's more swap tanks at X stacks of Y fights nowadays anyways.
At least that's vaguely participatory for the tanks and they can actually do different shit with what X stacks DOES.
Saberlash is just always Saberlash.
1) I don't get guaranteed a #3-4 slot on the meters due to not being able to make the (competent) 25-man runs among our group of guilds
2) Blizz quits treating me like a second class citizen for not wanting to deal with an even larger set of mouth-breathing retards than I usually get to deal with
10-man legendaries would be an excellent addition, but if the poopsock brigade whines too much about that, I'd probably ignore it.
A downside is that our 10-man runs wouldn't be able to rely on overgearing some fights thanks to 1-2 25-man geared ringers, but I think we can probably learn to deal with that.
Fuck 25 man.
I'm still sure people will find a way to hoot and swing their dicks over being better than the next guy in spite of these changes. My guild is fairly small. Medium sized at the most. We run 10s because logistically that's all we can put together and most of us refuse to bring in pugs. I've always hated the mindset that "10 man raids don't count"
"...only mights and maybes."
Edit: I went to the thread about these changes in the official forums last night so that I could laugh at the idiocy I knew I'd find, and sure enough there was a deluge of tears. Good stuff.
Yeah the first steps in really enjoying your time in a MMO is to stop caring about 1) what other people think about you/your guild and 2) what other guilds/players have/have done.
As soon as whether or not another guild has cleared x raid/heroic becomes irrelevant to you, you can start to focus on you getting them done and being happy with your accomplishments, regardless if its a server first or a server last.
And as soon as you stop caring if other players have as good, or better, gear than you, you can start enjoying more the gear you've personally earned.
That's my perspective anyway. I don't care if someone else has "been there, done that". It has no bearing on me going there, and doing that. And being happy with it.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
It does kinda suck not being to earn certain pieces of gear not because you're not skilled, but because you can't find 24 other people who are. I like the idea (hopefully) of everything from 25 man, including the crazy achievements and the rewards for doing some of them (like fancy mounts and legendaries) being part of 10 man.
Yes.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
just figured I'd chime in on this for people who didn't see the blue post
http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/cataclysm-raid-progression-refinements-193787/
Whoo, thought and hoped so! Maybe HM Deathwhisper will die again tonight.
You mean, I can get a tan now?
That or have more alts in raids.... I know 2 people in my guild that have a 10 and 25 man on 4 alts...o_O