We always put our warrior tank up first, he tanks till the first feud (Shield Block is an awesome cooldown for DA) since that's the largest number of times any tank will have to deal with DA between feuds. Then every time feud starts we swap tanks. So first feud I taunt, run to the stack, and just before DA goes off (I watch the buff go up on Chim and count to 2-3 in my head) I shield wall so I can't die to it since there is no bot during feud. I have 4pc so my shield wall will last from there till the end of feud, which is the only time we actually had trouble with tank deaths until we figured out timing and c/d availability.
The last melee swing of feud is going to be with 2 stacks of Break, so it will be a 200k melee swing if you don't dodge/parry/block or get a chunk of it absorbed. For the warrior tank I just pop Divine Guardian every time just before that last melee swing so if he needs it he is taking 20% less damage.
Unless you get terribly unlucky with feuds (we had random streaks where he would feud after every massacre, which blows ass and gets you nowhere fast), cooldowns should always be available for every feud DA and final melee. I usually popped a cooldown if it was up for the non-feud double attacks, but really anything (including absorb shields) that makes sure the first hit of DA doesn't knock you below 10k will save you. So if I didn't have a cooldown for DA during normal phases, I would just call it so our tank healer was aware and the discs could do whatever.
Key to 2 tanking for us was really just making sure we had a big cooldown on the DA during feud and any cooldown on the final melee of feud. And pally tanks with 4pc are pretty awesome for P2, just saying.
PS: Rets are worth bringing even though dps isn't that great at the moment. They bring an extra hand of sacrifice and a free holy radiance during feuds.
I'm assuming your warrior is soft block capped then?
Also, what do you mean about getting unlucky with feuds? They're on a specific timer, and I believe it's always two massacres immediately followed by a feud, following the first feud of the fight (which I think has about 4 massacres before it happens).
Edit: We have a ret paladin, but he didn't show up last night, so we realized we had no source of the 3% buff since no one plays the other shitty specs that provide them right now. I didn't mention that as anything specific to Chimaeron, but just a general note about 3% only coming on gimped specs for now.
anyone have trouble with magmaw? my guild is cockblocked because the chains seem to bug out on us. 2 people use the chain at the same time, every time, and it says "Magmaw breaks the one chain holding him". Rinse and repeat. People say we must be doing it wrong, the chains have to be within 3 seconds of each other. 3 seconds is an eternity - our WORST attempts are within 3 seconds of each other. We're usually within about .25 seconds of each other. We tried doing it as soon as we jump on his head. We tried waiting until he gets back up off the ground. Nothing works. The *entire raid* sees 2 chains go down at the same time, and one immediately break.
Chimmy is so easy with just taunting to offtank for double strike and then MT taunting back right after. Seriously there should be no other way for a normal kill. We killed him in under an hour on our first night on him that way.
The spawning with cyclones and grounding shit tends to be pretty RNG. I've had multiple times where they'll spawn right on top of each other, effectively fucking anything up with the way each effect works (tornados shooting you away, grounding pulling you in).
I'm assuming your warrior is soft block capped then?
Also, what do you mean about getting unlucky with feuds? They're on a specific timer, and I believe it's always two massacres immediately followed by a feud, following the first feud of the fight (which I think has about 4 massacres before it happens).
Edit: We have a ret paladin, but he didn't show up last night, so we realized we had no source of the 3% buff since no one plays the other shitty specs that provide them right now. I didn't mention that as anything specific to Chimaeron, but just a general note about 3% only coming on gimped specs for now.
Our warrior tank isn't avoidance capped, but he's pretty outrageously well geared in terms of block.
Feud after the first one can come after each Massacre, or if it doesn't, it will always come after the second Massacre. If it comes after one Massacre every time, it's almost guaranteed to be a wipe. When we first started on heroic, we had an attempt that literally had 4 or 5 feuds in a row, which was brutal.
Hmm. Well looking at our logs I don't think I took a hit greater than around 120k. So if that's a normal hit you'd need ~130k health to guarantee a Double Attack survival if you didn't block/absorb/avoid either of them. Perhaps he wasn't being topped off.
This seemed to work, thanks.
After a few wipes I told them to only heal me to about 40k, tops, and keep me there, and then immediately heal the bear to 130ish for the double strike. Doing that pretty much let us win. We got the the third phase everytime, it was just a matter of getting that phase right. We only had 3 people die on it, which is good, and bad because we wanted the chievo too if we could do it.
Now if I can get people not to get sound on atra then we'll be good. Not sure why range keep getting maxed out it's pretty easy to avoid those soundwaves to the point where going into the air phase I almost always had 0. Not sure why the range can't avoid it.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Conclave down last night so that's cool. I really have no idea what happens for most of that fight since I am on the ranged platform the entire time. It seems cool though. We still cannot get Mal down though. Last night was worse than last week. Our interupts are bad and we are getting 9 adds out waaaay too soon. Our last attempt we had 9 adds out before the end of our first red/blue phase. It was just dumb.
You have an interrupter that has an interrupt off GCD right?
We had Rogue (is kick of the gcd?), Enhance Shaman, Warrior Tank, and dps DK last night so yeah we should have been covered. I am not sure why we are having so many problems with it.
Yeah definitely. Warrior tank should be getting the storm, I bet the rogue is wasting his kick on the storm and not the adds, though you have the DK who is off GCD as well.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Windsheer is too so it should have been covered. Hopefully we can get him next week. I figured after almost downing him last week we would have him this week. I was clearly mistaken.
I like that as soon as you get him down it becomes so easy the next time. The thing I hate the most is almost getting him down then everyone becomes derps and you wipe at 90% for a week.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
This is exactly what we did in our first night at him last night. It's fun taking double strikes as a DK and having half of them dodged/parried. We couldn't really even get close on phase 3 though. I had the most fun I've had tanking since Argoloth on my hunter when I had a 28 second string of dodge/parry during phase 3, but it still wasn't enough time to get him down. What are you doing for kiting?
I am pleasantly surprised at the fights so far. Though some have stupid components. Malorik is probably about the only fight I've really hated so far, chimeron was just confusing, and arta is probably the best fight in there so far.
Bastion's fights have all been pretty fun, even captain planet.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
This tier has been mostly good. The challenge is there but I think some of the fights lack the fun element of some of the previous tiers. I still say Kara is the best example of Blizzard raid content to date. It was fun and challenging, had interesting mechanics and was just all together well put together.
Downed Conclave of Winds on 25 man last night on the second attempt. But then we tried Al'Akir, that shit is brutal. 2 hours of wipes and not getting past the first phase is no fun.
That chain lighting will just murder everyone if someone near another group gets sucked up in the tornado wall.
This first phase is the epitomy of RNG, walls of winds, chain lighting, that raid wide aoe push. I mean couple any of those abilities in the wrong spot and it could very well wipe 6 or more people in the raid.
You have massive amounts of time to get the debuffs. The cyclones always move, even if it's initially on top of a grounding it will move out of it.
There's no huge rush in phase 2. Phase 2 is not a race.
It is a RNG fight no doubts about it. Its not like the cyclones and zones stay up for the whole fight they despawn and respawn throughout p2. Plus its buggy as well. I was getting hit by eruption no matter where I was which wasnt much of a problem but losing dps on Tdog because I have to move him and still getting hit sucks.
Plus the fact that the cyclones shoot you out randomly you may end up on top of a quake. The fight can still be intense and interesting, for instance, if they keep cyclones and quakes opposite of each other, but their "zone" is random each cast. This would still need you to pay attention.
Plus there's the issue where the cyclone spawns on the other side of the room and it takes me the whole time to run to it (can't turn my back on the boss really) and then whoops now it's on a quake... okay wait... wait... okay go... HAHA LOL shot you back into the quake motherfucker!
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I'm mostly underwhelmed with the aesthetic of this tier of raids, which is an effect I was kind of expecting when they were advertising shorter raids. It's a lot harder to fit in the really cool shit like they did in Karazhan or Ulduar when you've only got four or five bosses.
I am not saying its a horrible RNG fight but it is a make one mistake and you die RNG fight in P2. The dps race is too much of a pain when your first working on him to lose any players in P1-P2 and Mr. Healer standing in the open having a well or nado spawn on him caused a couple of wipes last night. But the fight is definately not as bad as ones in the past.
I'm mostly underwhelmed with the aesthetic of this tier of raids, which is an effect I was kind of expecting when they were advertising shorter raids. It's a lot harder to fit in the really cool shit like they did in Karazhan or Ulduar when you've only got four or five bosses.
Which is sad. Kara was my favorite raid zone like most other people I know. People dont know what they are missing they just see a huge area and a bunch of trash and go "Waste of my time!"
I hear that way to much for a video game these days.
I'm mostly underwhelmed with the aesthetic of this tier of raids, which is an effect I was kind of expecting when they were advertising shorter raids. It's a lot harder to fit in the really cool shit like they did in Karazhan or Ulduar when you've only got four or five bosses.
I don't know man, Throne of the Four Winds is oozing all kinds of cool. Wind catapults, flying phase on Al'Akir (and getting to keep flying forever after you kill him wheeee)
I'm mostly underwhelmed with the aesthetic of this tier of raids, which is an effect I was kind of expecting when they were advertising shorter raids. It's a lot harder to fit in the really cool shit like they did in Karazhan or Ulduar when you've only got four or five bosses.
Which is sad. Kara was my favorite raid zone like most other people I know. People dont know what they are missing they just see a huge area and a bunch of trash and go "Waste of my time!"
I hear that way to much for a video game these days.
Well to be honest I'd rather fight interesting bosses than interesting trash, and most of the trash in Kara was pretty forgettable. (Except the god damn skeletons.)
I'm mostly underwhelmed with the aesthetic of this tier of raids, which is an effect I was kind of expecting when they were advertising shorter raids. It's a lot harder to fit in the really cool shit like they did in Karazhan or Ulduar when you've only got four or five bosses.
Which is sad. Kara was my favorite raid zone like most other people I know. People dont know what they are missing they just see a huge area and a bunch of trash and go "Waste of my time!"
I hear that way to much for a video game these days.
Well to be honest I'd rather fight interesting bosses than interesting trash, and most of the trash in Kara was pretty forgettable. (Except the god damn skeletons.)
My problem with Kara was having to spend way too much time there (even before it became a badge pinata).
This tier comes after that though, good fights, good difficulty. And al'akir and nefarian got epic covered pretty well. I don't agree that ascendant council is rng though, 30 seconds is plenty of time to get the correct buff regardless od bad luck. And al'akir phase 1 is no rng at all, purely situational awareness.
I'm mostly underwhelmed with the aesthetic of this tier of raids, which is an effect I was kind of expecting when they were advertising shorter raids. It's a lot harder to fit in the really cool shit like they did in Karazhan or Ulduar when you've only got four or five bosses.
Which is sad. Kara was my favorite raid zone like most other people I know. People dont know what they are missing they just see a huge area and a bunch of trash and go "Waste of my time!"
I hear that way to much for a video game these days.
Well to be honest I'd rather fight interesting bosses than interesting trash, and most of the trash in Kara was pretty forgettable. (Except the god damn skeletons.)
For the time Kara had both. Sure years later trash is forgettable but they each fit the area very well and there was not that much of it just took awhile in lvl appropriate gear. Skeletons, backstage trash, succys, caster/melee vorpal dudes...
my old guild ran Kara weekly for almost the entire time BC was out. We even xfered servers and did twice in one week one time. For whatever reason it just never got old. A big part of it was that once you were geared and got the fights down it was 2 hours or so of just hanging out and having fun. I may be biased but I just don't really many bad Kara memories.
This tier comes after that though, good fights, good difficulty. And al'akir and nefarian got epic covered pretty well. I don't agree that ascendant council is rng though, 30 seconds is plenty of time to get the correct buff regardless od bad luck. And al'akir phase 1 is no rng at all, purely situational awareness.
Why exactly does the amount of time you have make it not RNG when the wells and nados despawn and respawn at random spots around the room? It is not a tough rng fight but it did mess us up a couple times last night.... for instance with my "plenty of time" I made my way over to a well only to have it dissapear on me as soon as I got there. The only other wells up then were on the other side of the room. I made it across fine because Heroic Leap was up but not so for the shaman and DK following Tdog trying to lay down the smack.
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The last melee swing of feud is going to be with 2 stacks of Break, so it will be a 200k melee swing if you don't dodge/parry/block or get a chunk of it absorbed. For the warrior tank I just pop Divine Guardian every time just before that last melee swing so if he needs it he is taking 20% less damage.
Unless you get terribly unlucky with feuds (we had random streaks where he would feud after every massacre, which blows ass and gets you nowhere fast), cooldowns should always be available for every feud DA and final melee. I usually popped a cooldown if it was up for the non-feud double attacks, but really anything (including absorb shields) that makes sure the first hit of DA doesn't knock you below 10k will save you. So if I didn't have a cooldown for DA during normal phases, I would just call it so our tank healer was aware and the discs could do whatever.
Key to 2 tanking for us was really just making sure we had a big cooldown on the DA during feud and any cooldown on the final melee of feud. And pally tanks with 4pc are pretty awesome for P2, just saying.
PS: Rets are worth bringing even though dps isn't that great at the moment. They bring an extra hand of sacrifice and a free holy radiance during feuds.
Also, what do you mean about getting unlucky with feuds? They're on a specific timer, and I believe it's always two massacres immediately followed by a feud, following the first feud of the fight (which I think has about 4 massacres before it happens).
Edit: We have a ret paladin, but he didn't show up last night, so we realized we had no source of the 3% buff since no one plays the other shitty specs that provide them right now. I didn't mention that as anything specific to Chimaeron, but just a general note about 3% only coming on gimped specs for now.
And that can dick you over pretty hard sometimes.
There's no huge rush in phase 2. Phase 2 is not a race.
Our warrior tank isn't avoidance capped, but he's pretty outrageously well geared in terms of block.
Feud after the first one can come after each Massacre, or if it doesn't, it will always come after the second Massacre. If it comes after one Massacre every time, it's almost guaranteed to be a wipe. When we first started on heroic, we had an attempt that literally had 4 or 5 feuds in a row, which was brutal.
fucking storm
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This seemed to work, thanks.
After a few wipes I told them to only heal me to about 40k, tops, and keep me there, and then immediately heal the bear to 130ish for the double strike. Doing that pretty much let us win. We got the the third phase everytime, it was just a matter of getting that phase right. We only had 3 people die on it, which is good, and bad because we wanted the chievo too if we could do it.
Now if I can get people not to get sound on atra then we'll be good. Not sure why range keep getting maxed out it's pretty easy to avoid those soundwaves to the point where going into the air phase I almost always had 0. Not sure why the range can't avoid it.
We had Rogue (is kick of the gcd?), Enhance Shaman, Warrior Tank, and dps DK last night so yeah we should have been covered. I am not sure why we are having so many problems with it.
Bastion's fights have all been pretty fun, even captain planet.
Kara, Sunwell, and old Naxx were their best instances. All of them had interesting mechanics and had the challenge-reward ratio done very well.
That chain lighting will just murder everyone if someone near another group gets sucked up in the tornado wall.
This first phase is the epitomy of RNG, walls of winds, chain lighting, that raid wide aoe push. I mean couple any of those abilities in the wrong spot and it could very well wipe 6 or more people in the raid.
I would add Ulduar to the list. The lore for all of the bosses fit, good range of bosses, and added the first heroic modes to raids.
It is a RNG fight no doubts about it. Its not like the cyclones and zones stay up for the whole fight they despawn and respawn throughout p2. Plus its buggy as well. I was getting hit by eruption no matter where I was which wasnt much of a problem but losing dps on Tdog because I have to move him and still getting hit sucks.
Plus there's the issue where the cyclone spawns on the other side of the room and it takes me the whole time to run to it (can't turn my back on the boss really) and then whoops now it's on a quake... okay wait... wait... okay go... HAHA LOL shot you back into the quake motherfucker!
Which is sad. Kara was my favorite raid zone like most other people I know. People dont know what they are missing they just see a huge area and a bunch of trash and go "Waste of my time!"
I hear that way to much for a video game these days.
I don't know man, Throne of the Four Winds is oozing all kinds of cool. Wind catapults, flying phase on Al'Akir (and getting to keep flying forever after you kill him wheeee)
Well to be honest I'd rather fight interesting bosses than interesting trash, and most of the trash in Kara was pretty forgettable. (Except the god damn skeletons.)
My problem with Kara was having to spend way too much time there (even before it became a badge pinata).
This tier comes after that though, good fights, good difficulty. And al'akir and nefarian got epic covered pretty well. I don't agree that ascendant council is rng though, 30 seconds is plenty of time to get the correct buff regardless od bad luck. And al'akir phase 1 is no rng at all, purely situational awareness.
For the time Kara had both. Sure years later trash is forgettable but they each fit the area very well and there was not that much of it just took awhile in lvl appropriate gear. Skeletons, backstage trash, succys, caster/melee vorpal dudes...
Because that was way too much. Especially with a caster heavy raid, ugh.
Why exactly does the amount of time you have make it not RNG when the wells and nados despawn and respawn at random spots around the room? It is not a tough rng fight but it did mess us up a couple times last night.... for instance with my "plenty of time" I made my way over to a well only to have it dissapear on me as soon as I got there. The only other wells up then were on the other side of the room. I made it across fine because Heroic Leap was up but not so for the shaman and DK following Tdog trying to lay down the smack.