Because that was way too much. Especially with a caster heavy raid, ugh.
No, Karazhan had another fault - it was the only 10 man raid for a really, really long time in Burning Crusade, and it was entry-level for the 25 mans.
As someone who was in a guild that could clear Karazhan but pretty much nothing else at the time, I hate Karazhan with a burning, burning passion.
P.S. - Other raids I hate: Molten Core, BWL, Naxxramas.
Because that was way too much. Especially with a caster heavy raid, ugh.
No, Karazhan had another fault - it was the only 10 man raid for a really, really long time in Burning Crusade, and it was entry-level for the 25 mans.
As someone who was in a guild that could clear Karazhan but pretty much nothing else at the time, I hate Karazhan with a burning, burning passion.
P.S. - Other raids I hate: Molten Core, BWL, Naxxramas.
While I was stuck in the same boat, I didn't hate it as much but I did get tired of it.
It's enough time to take your time finding a tornado/gravity thing. Something despawning as you reach it is perfectly preventable as long as you keep a rough track of when they appear.
Dunno, I never found it RNGish at all. Always managed to find one in time without too many issues.
One of the big things that Kara and Ulduar did right for me that a lot of other raids haven't quite got a hang of (looking at you ICC) is keeping things varied up with the environments and making them interesting places to be.
Because that was way too much. Especially with a caster heavy raid, ugh.
No, Karazhan had another fault - it was the only 10 man raid for a really, really long time in Burning Crusade, and it was entry-level for the 25 mans.
As someone who was in a guild that could clear Karazhan but pretty much nothing else at the time, I hate Karazhan with a burning, burning passion.
P.S. - Other raids I hate: Molten Core, BWL, Naxxramas.
LOL yeah I had forgotten about that. It was the original 25 man raid guild killer wasnt it.
This tier comes after that though, good fights, good difficulty. And al'akir and nefarian got epic covered pretty well. I don't agree that ascendant council is rng though, 30 seconds is plenty of time to get the correct buff regardless od bad luck. And al'akir phase 1 is no rng at all, purely situational awareness.
Why exactly does the amount of time you have make it not RNG when the wells and nados despawn and respawn at random spots around the room? It is not a tough rng fight but it did mess us up a couple times last night.... for instance with my "plenty of time" I made my way over to a well only to have it dissapear on me as soon as I got there. The only other wells up then were on the other side of the room. I made it across fine because Heroic Leap was up but not so for the shaman and DK following Tdog trying to lay down the smack.
The random spawn of the grounding and cyclones will not dictate whether you win or lose ever. There is always enough time to get the proper buff if you are paying attention to the quake/thunderstorm cycle, regardless of where cyclones and grounding spawn. The only thing that will lose you phase 2 is people not paying attention or playing poorly.
This tier comes after that though, good fights, good difficulty. And al'akir and nefarian got epic covered pretty well. I don't agree that ascendant council is rng though, 30 seconds is plenty of time to get the correct buff regardless od bad luck. And al'akir phase 1 is no rng at all, purely situational awareness.
Why exactly does the amount of time you have make it not RNG when the wells and nados despawn and respawn at random spots around the room? It is not a tough rng fight but it did mess us up a couple times last night.... for instance with my "plenty of time" I made my way over to a well only to have it dissapear on me as soon as I got there. The only other wells up then were on the other side of the room. I made it across fine because Heroic Leap was up but not so for the shaman and DK following Tdog trying to lay down the smack.
The random spawn of the grounding and cyclones will not dictate whether you win or lose ever. There is always enough time to get the proper buff if you are paying attention to the quake/thunderstorm cycle, regardless of where cyclones and grounding spawn.
Sure. There is always time for that well or tornado that spawns a few seconds before the cast to reapply the correct buff. Always.
RNG does not dictate the fight. It can suck yes, but it won't necessarily wipe you if you are playing correctly. Regardless of the semantics, I hate Captain Planet. He won't dorp mien shite.
RNG does not dictate the fight. It can suck yes, but it won't necessarily wipe you if you are playing correctly. Regardless of the semantics, I hate Captain Planet. He won't dorp mien shite.
Its not impossible of course it just sucks....but if a healer or a tank gets eatted then well in my world that is a wipe. It will get easier as we go along no doubt I just hate the fight and it will suck harder on heroic I can tell.
RNG does not dictate the fight. It can suck yes, but it won't necessarily wipe you if you are playing correctly. Regardless of the semantics, I hate Captain Planet. He won't dorp mien shite.
The tanks need the buffs too. Sometimes it is very difficult for a tank to get those buffs in time. There have been times where I've gotten the cyclone just before the cast because it was on the other side of the room and I had to make a trek to it and make sure I didn't get stuck in a quake. And then there was at least 5 times I've made it and it was in a quake zone and I couldn't get the buff and the cast almost killed me, or, it'd despawn.
It's not going to wipe the raid, but when the entire encounter pretty much needs all 10 members at the end for phase3, then yeah, losing someone during phase2 will eventually end in a wipe.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
As a tank, yeah, it can be RNG because I can't just whip around and run to it most of the time. Obviously there's really no excuse for a DPS most of the time, unless the tornado is teasing you circling the quake, which has happened for us.
Not to mention the RNG of trying to avoid that rock spike, sometimes I'm far enough away, sometimes I'm not... even when I'm 20 yards away from a cloud. Honestly what should be done is have the tanks fighting the bosses get a debuff that lasts 2 minutes that doesn't get replaced and require them to swap bosses to get the next debuff. Viola, less RNG. Obviously less random movement from the cyclones would be in order too, but DPS usually 99% of the time have enough time and space to get the right debuff.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Because that was way too much. Especially with a caster heavy raid, ugh.
No, Karazhan had another fault - it was the only 10 man raid for a really, really long time in Burning Crusade, and it was entry-level for the 25 mans.
As someone who was in a guild that could clear Karazhan but pretty much nothing else at the time, I hate Karazhan with a burning, burning passion.
P.S. - Other raids I hate: Molten Core, BWL, Naxxramas.
I cannot bring myself to hate raids that were logistically harmful for raiders when in of themselves they were good. I have fond memories of BWL, early AQ (farthest I got in vanilla), Kara, SSC, TK, BT and Ulduar. Sure, there were problems organizing these raids, surely, but when you managed to get a raid going the fights themselves were amazing and one-of-a-kind experiences.
Either way, Cata's raiding layout is much more accessible and still incredibly fun.
Even though I'm not playing the game anymore because raiding is the only thing that is fun and the crap you have to do to prepare for raiding is too much bullshit to handle.
By the way, this is really off-tangent, but wouldn't it be great if there was a game that took the WoW raids and cut out all the grinding, gearing up and leveling? What if you could just jump straight into the raiding experience with all the gear and levels and potions required and just play?
I ask this because there really is no experience outside of MMOs that is equivalent to the massive cooperative experience that is raiding, and to my knowledge no other game does this game experience as well as WoW. It's somewhat sad that there's so much filler that gets in the way of something so unique and so entertaining.
Every fight has an element of randomness, even if it's just a bad avoidance string. The whole challenge is how you account for the random circumstances.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Tanks can strafe away from bosses and still parry/dodge/block while moving at 100% speed, so getting the appropriate buff should not be difficult.
You'd be surprised. Locating a tornado is probably the hardest part in that room. Oh, yeah, and trying to distinguish a quake that's about to spawn from the rock shard is loltastic.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
By the way, this is really off-tangent, but wouldn't it be great if there was a game that took the WoW raids and cut out all the grinding, gearing up and leveling? What if you could just jump straight into the raiding experience with all the gear and levels and potions required and just play?
I ask this because there really is no experience outside of MMOs that is equivalent to the massive cooperative experience that is raiding, and to my knowledge no other game does this game experience as well as WoW. It's somewhat sad that there's so much filler that gets in the way of something so unique and so entertaining.
They basically do this on the PTR, all you need is a max level character to copy over.
The answer to your question is that mechanics of the raid are only part of what makes them fun.
WoW isn't really that exciting from a pure gameplay standpoint; you follow a relatively simple button pushing priority system, and move your avatar around the gamespace in a fairly simple and reaction-time-tolerant way. The challenge comes from the collaborative experience of understanding how classes interact and adapting your raid to the encounters; that challenge largely goes away if everyone's just jumping in with premade characters.
I'm not really loot oriented at all aside from as a means to an end, but it's still fun to get new gear and develop your character that way.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
TrynantManiac BrawlerRank 20.100 and full WildRegistered Userregular
By the way, this is really off-tangent, but wouldn't it be great if there was a game that took the WoW raids and cut out all the grinding, gearing up and leveling? What if you could just jump straight into the raiding experience with all the gear and levels and potions required and just play?
I ask this because there really is no experience outside of MMOs that is equivalent to the massive cooperative experience that is raiding, and to my knowledge no other game does this game experience as well as WoW. It's somewhat sad that there's so much filler that gets in the way of something so unique and so entertaining.
They basically do this on the PTR, all you need is a max level character to copy over.
The answer to your question is that mechanics of the raid are only part of what makes them fun.
WoW isn't really that exciting from a pure gameplay standpoint; you follow a relatively simple button pushing priority system, and move your avatar around the gamespace in a fairly simple and reaction-time-tolerant way. The challenge comes from the collaborative experience of understanding how classes interact and adapting your raid to the encounters; that challenge largely goes away if everyone's just jumping in with premade characters.
I'm not really loot oriented at all aside from as a means to an end, but it's still fun to get new gear and develop your character that way.
I misspoke when I said "jump in with all the gear," and while it is easy to infer, I was not really thinking of "premades." A better way of saying it would be, what if you could just cut to the chase and build a raid-ready character to your liking and not have to grind other content as a prerequisite? Choose your class, choose your gear, choose your spec, and play. Getting new items (or even new abilities) from raiding and customizing don't have to be removed from this proposition. I don't see how non-raid content and customizing your character, or even character progression, are are irrevocably tied to one another. In theory at least.
I'm assuming your warrior is soft block capped then?
Also, what do you mean about getting unlucky with feuds? They're on a specific timer, and I believe it's always two massacres immediately followed by a feud, following the first feud of the fight (which I think has about 4 massacres before it happens).
Edit: We have a ret paladin, but he didn't show up last night, so we realized we had no source of the 3% buff since no one plays the other shitty specs that provide them right now. I didn't mention that as anything specific to Chimaeron, but just a general note about 3% only coming on gimped specs for now.
Our warrior tank isn't avoidance capped, but he's pretty outrageously well geared in terms of block.
Feud after the first one can come after each Massacre, or if it doesn't, it will always come after the second Massacre. If it comes after one Massacre every time, it's almost guaranteed to be a wipe. When we first started on heroic, we had an attempt that literally had 4 or 5 feuds in a row, which was brutal.
Yeah, I was mistaken. After another night of wiping, I paid more attention and it does seem to be random. I don't know if it has something to do with timers just getting slightly off (like when LK could do either Defile or Valks next with no way to tell which was coming) or what. It would be nice if some sort of addon timers could get it down to a science, assuming it's not just completely random.
The random spawn of the grounding and cyclones will not dictate whether you win or lose ever. There is always enough time to get the proper buff if you are paying attention to the quake/thunderstorm cycle, regardless of where cyclones and grounding spawn. The only thing that will lose you phase 2 is people not paying attention or playing poorly.
Ascendant Council felt like an "are you awake" check like 40m/10m/25m Thaddius. Not really hard, but everyone is accountable for not being asleep. In 25 Normal you don't even need to get the grounding buff. You can just waltz to the tornado and heal through the thunder with a nature resist totem. It's kind of hilarious how easy it makes this phase.
As a tank, yeah, it can be RNG because I can't just whip around and run to it most of the time. Obviously there's really no excuse for a DPS most of the time, unless the tornado is teasing you circling the quake, which has happened for us.
Not to mention the RNG of trying to avoid that rock spike, sometimes I'm far enough away, sometimes I'm not... even when I'm 20 yards away from a cloud. Honestly what should be done is have the tanks fighting the bosses get a debuff that lasts 2 minutes that doesn't get replaced and require them to swap bosses to get the next debuff. Viola, less RNG. Obviously less random movement from the cyclones would be in order too, but DPS usually 99% of the time have enough time and space to get the right debuff.
Or you need to get airborne, run for a tornado, get bounced into a quake, now you're snared, then get hit with lightning rod (which all the "it's not an RNG fight" people have completely ignored). Now you can't head for a tornado since you'll zot the raid. You have to play grabass near a wall and pray you've got time to make it back to another tornado after the rod is done (assuming you don't get retargeted for it).
I'm assuming your warrior is soft block capped then?
Also, what do you mean about getting unlucky with feuds? They're on a specific timer, and I believe it's always two massacres immediately followed by a feud, following the first feud of the fight (which I think has about 4 massacres before it happens).
Edit: We have a ret paladin, but he didn't show up last night, so we realized we had no source of the 3% buff since no one plays the other shitty specs that provide them right now. I didn't mention that as anything specific to Chimaeron, but just a general note about 3% only coming on gimped specs for now.
Our warrior tank isn't avoidance capped, but he's pretty outrageously well geared in terms of block.
Feud after the first one can come after each Massacre, or if it doesn't, it will always come after the second Massacre. If it comes after one Massacre every time, it's almost guaranteed to be a wipe. When we first started on heroic, we had an attempt that literally had 4 or 5 feuds in a row, which was brutal.
Yeah, I was mistaken. After another night of wiping, I paid more attention and it does seem to be random. I don't know if it has something to do with timers just getting slightly off (like when LK could do either Defile or Valks next with no way to tell which was coming) or what. It would be nice if some sort of addon timers could get it down to a science, assuming it's not just completely random.
I read somewhere that's it's a 50% chance. So 50% for the first bot offline to be after the second massacre, 100% chance on the third if not. Then 50% chance on the next massacre, 100% on the one after that if not. If that makes sense.
Not sure if that's totally correct, but it feels right from experience.
I read somewhere that's it's a 50% chance. So 50% for the first bot offline to be during the second feud, 100% chance on the third if not. Then 50% chance on the next feud, 100% on the one after that if not. If that makes sense.
Not sure if that's totally correct, but it feels right from experience.
I'm not sure what you're saying. The bot is always offline during the feud.
I read somewhere that's it's a 50% chance. So 50% for the first bot offline to be during the second feud, 100% chance on the third if not. Then 50% chance on the next feud, 100% on the one after that if not. If that makes sense.
Not sure if that's totally correct, but it feels right from experience.
I'm not sure what you're saying. The bot is always offline during the feud.
Or you need to get airborne, run for a tornado, get bounced into a quake, now you're snared, then get hit with lightning rod (which all the "it's not an RNG fight" people have completely ignored). Now you can't head for a tornado since you'll zot the raid. You have to play grabass near a wall and pray you've got time to make it back to another tornado after the rod is done (assuming you don't get retargeted for it).
There is no "get bounced into a quake." It launches you backwards. Position yourself appropriately. The grounding areas also have a giant notice before they spawn. All this boo hooing is ridiculous.
So I withdraw my RNG statement and revise it as such:
I dislike Captain Planet because there is a chance that the mechanics of the fight can kill raid members in a way that is out of their control. There are we happy now? Cause I have moved on. Chogall is next and I have to say I lold at his speech when you entered the room.
So I withdraw my RNG statement and revise it as such:
I dislike Captain Planet because there is a chance that the mechanics of the fight can kill raid members in a way that is out of their control. There are we happy now? Cause I have moved on. Chogall is next and I have to say I lold at his speech when you entered the room.
It annoys me that most NPC/character dialogue plays at about 40% of the volume of other game sounds, so if any sort of combat, buffing, etc. is going on, the NPC talk just sounds like drowned-out mumbling. There should be a separate volume slider for speech.
This needs to be an option offered for everything. When they bring up fight intros they should always have something on their whiteboard that says, "I'd like to skip the pageantry."
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Most definitely. Although I think Atramedes is the only raid encounter this tier with any major pageantry to sit through. Nef has some, but someone can always fire that up early while your raid prepares. I might be forgetting one, but I don't know what.
Edit: Also, making Chimaeron targetable/attackable before the bot is released was just dickhead design. The accidental wipes due to one person's fat fingering aren't funny, so just fix that shit, guys.
Have all the people arguing about RNG P2 on Council forgotten that there are 2 tornadoes and quakes going out at a time? The odds of them all being completely opposite of you are slim to nil. I usually just keep my boss in the center of the room more or less, and trot over to whatever I need then head back to center. And quake has a huge graphic that looks like the swirls from Blood Prince Council in ICC and is almost impossible to miss when you have open eyes.
And Jubwar, in addition to Heroic Leap you could always choose to Intervene to someone near the buff you need or charge the other boss if it's near the buff you need. Never mind that tanks can pop a cooldown on normal and live through the thing anyway.
And massive thumbs up to Karazhan! Though Ulduar might be my favorite raid instance personally.
As I recall, all BC raids really loved their trash. Course, instead of getting rid of some, they just had them drop epic gems instead.
I'm okay with trash as long as it's not filler trash. That may sound like an oxymoron. I mean to say that trash is good if it presents an actual challenge (and a chance to drop loot), or at least has something memorable about it. Blackwing Lair was great about this. There wasn't that much trash in terms of quantity, but damn did you have to be on your toes for the trash that was there. The ghost council before Atramedes is a good example in Cata of how to do trash right.
You are right about BC; it was trash heavy to the point of absurdity. Kara is a pretty obnoxious example of how not to do trash (for the most part). And fuck Hyjal; that is a raid with one real boss and 36 waves of trash.
As I recall, all BC raids really loved their trash. Course, instead of getting rid of some, they just had them drop epic gems instead.
Yeah, I wasn't excusing the other raids so much as not letting Karazhan get by without getting knocked down a peg.
Even at the end I didnt mind Kara at all. Then again I devote the time needed for something I commit to. So kara was never a big deal for me because I just loved the zone so much. Trash to me needs to exist though. Like I am going to walk into Cho'gal's house without any opposition. I am a hero so most of his minions would be below my power.... hence trash... hence it makes sense to me.
Posts
No, Karazhan had another fault - it was the only 10 man raid for a really, really long time in Burning Crusade, and it was entry-level for the 25 mans.
As someone who was in a guild that could clear Karazhan but pretty much nothing else at the time, I hate Karazhan with a burning, burning passion.
P.S. - Other raids I hate: Molten Core, BWL, Naxxramas.
While I was stuck in the same boat, I didn't hate it as much but I did get tired of it.
Dunno, I never found it RNGish at all. Always managed to find one in time without too many issues.
LOL yeah I had forgotten about that. It was the original 25 man raid guild killer wasnt it.
Sure. There is always time for that well or tornado that spawns a few seconds before the cast to reapply the correct buff. Always.
Its not impossible of course it just sucks....but if a healer or a tank gets eatted then well in my world that is a wipe. It will get easier as we go along no doubt I just hate the fight and it will suck harder on heroic I can tell.
The tanks need the buffs too. Sometimes it is very difficult for a tank to get those buffs in time. There have been times where I've gotten the cyclone just before the cast because it was on the other side of the room and I had to make a trek to it and make sure I didn't get stuck in a quake. And then there was at least 5 times I've made it and it was in a quake zone and I couldn't get the buff and the cast almost killed me, or, it'd despawn.
It's not going to wipe the raid, but when the entire encounter pretty much needs all 10 members at the end for phase3, then yeah, losing someone during phase2 will eventually end in a wipe.
Im 99% sure they don't even outright kill you if you have enough HP / defensive cooldown.
With them despawning and respawning it can be 10seconds.... or less and it will outright kill most raid members especially healers.
Not to mention the RNG of trying to avoid that rock spike, sometimes I'm far enough away, sometimes I'm not... even when I'm 20 yards away from a cloud. Honestly what should be done is have the tanks fighting the bosses get a debuff that lasts 2 minutes that doesn't get replaced and require them to swap bosses to get the next debuff. Viola, less RNG. Obviously less random movement from the cyclones would be in order too, but DPS usually 99% of the time have enough time and space to get the right debuff.
I cannot bring myself to hate raids that were logistically harmful for raiders when in of themselves they were good. I have fond memories of BWL, early AQ (farthest I got in vanilla), Kara, SSC, TK, BT and Ulduar. Sure, there were problems organizing these raids, surely, but when you managed to get a raid going the fights themselves were amazing and one-of-a-kind experiences.
Either way, Cata's raiding layout is much more accessible and still incredibly fun.
By the way, this is really off-tangent, but wouldn't it be great if there was a game that took the WoW raids and cut out all the grinding, gearing up and leveling? What if you could just jump straight into the raiding experience with all the gear and levels and potions required and just play?
I ask this because there really is no experience outside of MMOs that is equivalent to the massive cooperative experience that is raiding, and to my knowledge no other game does this game experience as well as WoW. It's somewhat sad that there's so much filler that gets in the way of something so unique and so entertaining.
Aces Wild is a pretty stellar game.
Blog, Playing Rules; Let's Play Demon's Souls; My Backlog
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
You'd be surprised. Locating a tornado is probably the hardest part in that room. Oh, yeah, and trying to distinguish a quake that's about to spawn from the rock shard is loltastic.
They basically do this on the PTR, all you need is a max level character to copy over.
The answer to your question is that mechanics of the raid are only part of what makes them fun.
WoW isn't really that exciting from a pure gameplay standpoint; you follow a relatively simple button pushing priority system, and move your avatar around the gamespace in a fairly simple and reaction-time-tolerant way. The challenge comes from the collaborative experience of understanding how classes interact and adapting your raid to the encounters; that challenge largely goes away if everyone's just jumping in with premade characters.
I'm not really loot oriented at all aside from as a means to an end, but it's still fun to get new gear and develop your character that way.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I misspoke when I said "jump in with all the gear," and while it is easy to infer, I was not really thinking of "premades." A better way of saying it would be, what if you could just cut to the chase and build a raid-ready character to your liking and not have to grind other content as a prerequisite? Choose your class, choose your gear, choose your spec, and play. Getting new items (or even new abilities) from raiding and customizing don't have to be removed from this proposition. I don't see how non-raid content and customizing your character, or even character progression, are are irrevocably tied to one another. In theory at least.
Aces Wild is a pretty stellar game.
Blog, Playing Rules; Let's Play Demon's Souls; My Backlog
That's probably a huge part of it.
I am so sick of seeing blue shit on blue walls though that it's straining my eyes.
I read somewhere that's it's a 50% chance. So 50% for the first bot offline to be after the second massacre, 100% chance on the third if not. Then 50% chance on the next massacre, 100% on the one after that if not. If that makes sense.
Not sure if that's totally correct, but it feels right from experience.
Durr. Massacre I mean. Will fix that.
I dislike Captain Planet because there is a chance that the mechanics of the fight can kill raid members in a way that is out of their control. There are we happy now? Cause I have moved on. Chogall is next and I have to say I lold at his speech when you entered the room.
This needs to be an option offered for everything. When they bring up fight intros they should always have something on their whiteboard that says, "I'd like to skip the pageantry."
Edit: Also, making Chimaeron targetable/attackable before the bot is released was just dickhead design. The accidental wipes due to one person's fat fingering aren't funny, so just fix that shit, guys.
And Jubwar, in addition to Heroic Leap you could always choose to Intervene to someone near the buff you need or charge the other boss if it's near the buff you need. Never mind that tanks can pop a cooldown on normal and live through the thing anyway.
And massive thumbs up to Karazhan! Though Ulduar might be my favorite raid instance personally.
As I recall, all BC raids really loved their trash. Course, instead of getting rid of some, they just had them drop epic gems instead.
I'm okay with trash as long as it's not filler trash. That may sound like an oxymoron. I mean to say that trash is good if it presents an actual challenge (and a chance to drop loot), or at least has something memorable about it. Blackwing Lair was great about this. There wasn't that much trash in terms of quantity, but damn did you have to be on your toes for the trash that was there. The ghost council before Atramedes is a good example in Cata of how to do trash right.
You are right about BC; it was trash heavy to the point of absurdity. Kara is a pretty obnoxious example of how not to do trash (for the most part). And fuck Hyjal; that is a raid with one real boss and 36 waves of trash.
Aces Wild is a pretty stellar game.
Blog, Playing Rules; Let's Play Demon's Souls; My Backlog
Even at the end I didnt mind Kara at all. Then again I devote the time needed for something I commit to. So kara was never a big deal for me because I just loved the zone so much. Trash to me needs to exist though. Like I am going to walk into Cho'gal's house without any opposition. I am a hero so most of his minions would be below my power.... hence trash... hence it makes sense to me.