My point was it's a really easy thing to handle and that it's not RNG that can fuck you over if you know what you're doing. Nef has just as many (or more) things that can hose you, it's just that there's less responsibility on the DPS.
Like what? Healers? That goes with competency with any class. Neffy is a plainly more straight forward fight. No ifs about it.
o_O
I'd say there's alot of ifs. Especially considering I've never heard anyone say "Nef is easier then Cho" until now. Most guilds or people I know hit and down Cho first and spend longer trying to get Nef. Shit, even Tankspot says Nef is harder.
Cho'gall is just a much more simple fight. It's one strat and then a DPS race with adds. It's pretty simple, straightforward jobs for all roles. Tank switch, move/interrupt add. DPS boss, dps adds. Interrupt worship. Heal like crazy.
And the fight can tolerate some screwups. As long as everyone executes well enough, it's not terribly hard.
i haven't played in a bit but i remember when doing the fights that cho'gall felt more strategically difficult (as in, there's more things going on during a fight) whereas nefarion was more numerically difficult (as in, beat the enrage/interrupt x times every y seconds/beat the enrage)
We got halfus down last night. It took half the attempts learning Cho'gall and Nef did. We hit the enrage once... and just were not prepared for how hard the AE hit in P2 a couple times. But it seemed reasonably repeatable.
Oh well, I think we're going to tackle Chimaeron next. Not sure whats after that for next week. ODS, VT, or Maloriak I guess.
We got halfus down last night. It took half the attempts learning Cho'gall and Nef did. We hit the enrage once... and just were not prepared for how hard the AE hit in P2 a couple times. But it seemed reasonably repeatable.
Oh well, I think we're going to tackle Chimaeron next. Not sure whats after that for next week. ODS, VT, or Maloriak I guess.
Why don't you interrupt the AE? There are a couple methods to get out of the last stun and interrupt it.
I assumed they did interrupt it. You won't realistically down Halfus if one of those gets through, unless it's in the last 10% or so. He just said they weren't prepared for it, which is understandable, because you don't have to do anything special about it on normal.
I assumed they did interrupt it. You won't realistically down Halfus if one of those gets through, unless it's in the last 10% or so. He just said they weren't prepared for it, which is understandable, because you don't have to do anything special about it on normal.
We ate one on our kill. The others were interrupted via human or trinkets.
What makes Maloriak difficult on heroic mode? We figured that was one of the easier ones and is coming up soon on our progression.
I assumed they did interrupt it. You won't realistically down Halfus if one of those gets through, unless it's in the last 10% or so. He just said they weren't prepared for it, which is understandable, because you don't have to do anything special about it on normal.
We ate one on our kill. The others were interrupted via human or trinkets.
What makes Maloriak difficult on heroic mode? We figured that was one of the easier ones and is coming up soon on our progression.
A single tick of Arcane Storm during red phase can kill you. Poor kiting with 9 adds up will kill you. Not paying attention to puddles on dark phase will kill you. Not waiting until the frozen players get healed up will kill them.
A single tick of Arcane Storm during blue phase will kill whomever he Ice Blocks next, unless they happen to be one of the lucky randoms to be topped off in time.
You get, essentially, 7 gongs to work with, so you can't use any beyond the one ground/one air interrupts. No discretionary "we need to get people's sound down" gongs. It basically puts a berserk timer of "no more than 3 air phases or you're fucked" on the fight, although you can cheese things out a little longer on the fourth air phase if you have targeted people drag the fire as far back as they can while the rest of the raid stays near the front of the room. And in general it's a lot easier for people's sound to get too high on heroic, so that's indirectly a "gongs are different" factor.
And gongs don't respawn on heroic, while apparently they do on normal (something I never realized but has been confirmed by multiple people).
Still, it's one of the easiest heroic kills for now.
I've never seen a gong respawn on normal mode. Maybe it's happened and I haven't noticed, but not that I can remember.
^ this. Unless you mean they don't respawn between wipes, in which case, that's pretty shitty.
Like I said, I haven't seen it either, but I have seen more than one group claim they've seen them respawn. I assumed it only happens if you're doing really shitty and taking 10+ minutes without killing Atramedes.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I've never seen a gong respawn on normal mode. Maybe it's happened and I haven't noticed, but not that I can remember.
^ this. Unless you mean they don't respawn between wipes, in which case, that's pretty shitty.
Like I said, I haven't seen it either, but I have seen more than one group claim they've seen them respawn. I assumed it only happens if you're doing really shitty and taking 10+ minutes without killing Atramedes.
I can't imagine anyone taking that long to even have a prayer of beating the encounter anyways. I mean, you'd run out of gongs long before then. Don't know how you'd stay alive long enough to see them respawn.
A group of competent players could pretty much survive indefinitely. Using only one gong per phase, you should be using no more than one per minute on average. If a raid happened to have some good players and some incompetent DPS who bit the dust early, the still-living crew could go on for quite a while as long as all the healers are alive, and if there were extra gongs.
The only way that could possibly work is to use no gongs during Air Phase. (don't even think that's possible) And even then the inevitable buildup from his AoE would probably start killing people.
I've never seen anyone suggest they respawn and we've dragged that fight out a long time in 25s so I think we'd have noticed.
A Google search for (atramedes gongs "respawn") gave me various links that I can't click on to read the full text, but the preview text for some seemed to imply that people were seeing respawns. I dunno what's up with it.
Anyone have any tips for 10 man Al'Akir for placement and add killing?
In phase 1 we were ok with chain lighting, but occasionally the wind wall would spawn almost directly on top of somone. I know that you can see some animation when the wall is close to forming, but thats incredibly hard on that fight. Any tips for placement?
Second, during phase 2, we were letting 2-3 adds spawn and then burning the adds so that there was one up. Then we were killing each add as it spawned, keeping a 1 add buffer to prevent the debuff from falling off, killing it if necessary. Thoughts?
Anyone have any tips for 10 man Al'Akir for placement and add killing?
In phase 1 we were ok with chain lighting, but occasionally the wind wall would spawn almost directly on top of somone. I know that you can see some animation when the wall is close to forming, but thats incredibly hard on that fight. Any tips for placement?
Second, during phase 2, we were letting 2-3 adds spawn and then burning the adds so that there was one up. Then we were killing each add as it spawned, keeping a 1 add buffer to prevent the debuff from falling off, killing it if necessary. Thoughts?
We place people in phase 1 2 per clock position, roughly (look at al'akir's platform like a analog clock). there are little circles on the floor we use as markers for where to stand.
9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, two dps.
6 o'clock is the tank and a healer.
between the 9-6 positions and 3-6 positions put a dps and a healer.
we run 1 tank/3 healers/6 dps.
Dodging wind walls is everyone's responsibility and if you want to master phase 1 you just have to keep an eye out for where it will spawn constantly. I'm normally at the 3 o'clock spot with a warlock and we usually get the first wall on our side 90% of the time, either right before the first knock back, after, or during. you just have to start planning for how you run towards Al'Akir for the knockback so you will end up in the gap for the wall or have enough time to avoid it, or simply jump off the platform and hopefully use cooldowns/healthstones to survive if you take damage while floating back. If you will get knocked off by the knockoff and have a way to get back, like blink or demonic teleport or goblin racial, make sure you use those abilities too.
Phase 2 we wait until the third add is up and then burn the first, and stagger killing them as you described. You may want to just have one ranged dps responsible for killing the adds if they can burn then fast enough, or call out when they want the marked add killed by ranged. Again remember the priority is to still watch for wind walls from either direction, if you lose stacks on Al'Akir but everyone lives dodging a wall that's preferable while you're still learning the fight.
Anyone have any tips for 10 man Al'Akir for placement and add killing?
In phase 1 we were ok with chain lighting, but occasionally the wind wall would spawn almost directly on top of somone. I know that you can see some animation when the wall is close to forming, but thats incredibly hard on that fight. Any tips for placement?
Second, during phase 2, we were letting 2-3 adds spawn and then burning the adds so that there was one up. Then we were killing each add as it spawned, keeping a 1 add buffer to prevent the debuff from falling off, killing it if necessary. Thoughts?
For Phase one, put 2 people per spade. Tank + Healer in the middle. Healer + DPS on each side. DPS + DPS on the ends. The 2 DPS Teams will have to keep a watchful eye on when Squall Line is going to form, and get comfortable getting behind it, or well in front of it to get into the gap. It helps to have Static positions for Phase 1, so people can get used to the timing of when a Squall Line comes in conjuction with Wind Blast so they can adjust accordingly.
Also. The Squall lines switch which direction they come from every time. IF it starts on the Left and moves Right, the next one will start on the Right and Move Left. And Vice Versa, if it starts on the right and moves left, the next one will start on the left and move right. This pattern will continue all the way to phase 3.
For Phase 2. Let 3 Adds spawn, and then try to keep 2-3 up. By the time you get to 30% you will have slowly dwindled them down to 1 or 2. at 28% try to kill the remaining stormlings before Phase 3. The way we take care of the adds is our Warlock will Soul Swap his dots onto every Add, and the Elemental Shaman controls when they die. After 3 has spawned, he is exclusively DPS only the adds, and making sure they don't die too early. I think one of the biggest problems people have with this fight is that they kill the adds too early, you have to control their deaths and it is the most important part of the fight IMO (Second to people not being retarded and getting caught in squall line).
Make sure you stack up for Phase 2 immediately. Phase 2 comes for us right when the second Squall Line passes me(the tank, standing in the middle spade).
Another thing worth mentioning: The tank can control the Wind Burst timing to a degree. Al can't cast WB if he's casting Electrocute, so the tank can run out of range for a few seconds (coordinate with healers so he doesn't explode, although iirc the damage on 10 is fairly trivial) to delay the knockback.
Another thing worth mentioning: The tank can control the Wind Burst timing to a degree. Al can't cast WB if he's casting Electrocute, so the tank can run out of range for a few seconds (coordinate with healers so he doesn't explode, although iirc the damage on 10 is fairly trivial) to delay the knockback.
So my guild just started doing chogall on 10 man and hooooooo boy, are we getting our asses kicked. It seems like we do not have enough interrupts and ranged damage for the fight, even though we one shot the monstrosity last night. Chogall is getting 4-5 worship stacks occasionally, and when I offtank the big add that spawns ranged can't kill it in that 30 second time span so I start getting massive corruption.
We are following the tankspot guide for doing him. Anyone have any suggestions.
Our raid composition varies but last night it was me as DK MT, Beartank OT, Shammy, Druid, and Pally heals. Ret pally, warrior melee dps. 2 mages and a shadow priest ranged dps.
If the add isn't consistently dying in time, have at least one of the melee DPS break off and help kill it. I'd say the warrior would be best since he can intercept/heroic leap to the add then use the other one to get back on Cho'gall and not lose much uptime (also, shorter ramp-up time than a ret paladin).
What tanks do you have? Most classes have some kind of aoe silence/stun/fear/whatever. As a paladin, I just avengers shield the boss whenever he MC's on 10man, the shield will bash both people out of it assuming they are standing behind the boss like they're supposed to. When the add is up it still works wonders for 1 person depending on range.
Warrior tanks also have the shockwave stun that'll knock 'em out of it. Really though you just have to bash it into peoples heads to always use their cc's.
The add tank ought to be able to get all the depravity interrupts; feral's actually really good at it since you can backpedal at will without worrying about being out of skull bash range.
If your ranged can't kill the add in time, have melee peel and help. It sucks, but if you have 2-3 melee it might be necessary for at least one of them help out.
Worship is just something you need to practice. It takes some time for everybody to get it into their head that they need to look at nearby group members and potentially interrupt them while you are all chasing the add. Every class can do something to interrupt worship.
Also, consider dropping a healer and using six dps. Fight is much easier that way.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
What tanks do you have? Most classes have some kind of aoe silence/stun/fear/whatever. As a paladin, I just avengers shield the boss whenever he MC's on 10man, the shield will bash both people out of it assuming they are standing behind the boss like they're supposed to. When the add is up it still works wonders for 1 person depending on range.
Warrior tanks also have the shockwave stun that'll knock 'em out of it. Really though you just have to bash it into peoples heads to always use their cc's.
He said his tanks were a DK and a bear. So... neither of the ones with a reasonable mechanism for interrupting worships while tanking.
Also, he didn't specify, but I would suspect their worship troubles are when the add is out, since that forces people to split up more. I don't know what the Tankspot strategy is, exactly, but since like every strategy involves stacking when the add isn't up, I'd assume they are.
Edit: If your raid members aren't doing that fight with enemy healthbars displayed, they're handicapping themselves. It makes it a shitload easier to notice when people get MC'd with those up.
I want to try out and see if /targetenemyplayer works on MC'd players during Cho. If so, then it makes macroing for interrupts real nice.
Also I was trying to figure out which specs don't have an on call interrupt for that fight. The only one I know for sure is Resto Druid without Furor but I have a feeling Holy and/or Disc Priest is in the same boat.
Posts
o_O
I'd say there's alot of ifs. Especially considering I've never heard anyone say "Nef is easier then Cho" until now. Most guilds or people I know hit and down Cho first and spend longer trying to get Nef. Shit, even Tankspot says Nef is harder.
Cho'gall is just a much more simple fight. It's one strat and then a DPS race with adds. It's pretty simple, straightforward jobs for all roles. Tank switch, move/interrupt add. DPS boss, dps adds. Interrupt worship. Heal like crazy.
And the fight can tolerate some screwups. As long as everyone executes well enough, it's not terribly hard.
You must have some crazy min-maxed setup that's perfect for Nef and bad somehow for Cho'gall, but I can't think of one off the top of my head
Raid comp depends as we swap out depending on encounter (we are a 10 man afterall).
Oh well, I think we're going to tackle Chimaeron next. Not sure whats after that for next week. ODS, VT, or Maloriak I guess.
Why don't you interrupt the AE? There are a couple methods to get out of the last stun and interrupt it.
Yes, except this week, where I am the main tank.
Also the gong-bonger.
...we're all going to die, aren't we?
What makes Maloriak difficult on heroic mode? We figured that was one of the easier ones and is coming up soon on our progression.
A single tick of Arcane Storm during red phase can kill you. Poor kiting with 9 adds up will kill you. Not paying attention to puddles on dark phase will kill you. Not waiting until the frozen players get healed up will kill them.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
that doesn't seem so bad
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
And gongs don't respawn on heroic, while apparently they do on normal (something I never realized but has been confirmed by multiple people).
Still, it's one of the easiest heroic kills for now.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Yes...you will die. A lot
^ this. Unless you mean they don't respawn between wipes, in which case, that's pretty shitty.
I can't imagine anyone taking that long to even have a prayer of beating the encounter anyways. I mean, you'd run out of gongs long before then. Don't know how you'd stay alive long enough to see them respawn.
I've never seen anyone suggest they respawn and we've dragged that fight out a long time in 25s so I think we'd have noticed.
In phase 1 we were ok with chain lighting, but occasionally the wind wall would spawn almost directly on top of somone. I know that you can see some animation when the wall is close to forming, but thats incredibly hard on that fight. Any tips for placement?
Second, during phase 2, we were letting 2-3 adds spawn and then burning the adds so that there was one up. Then we were killing each add as it spawned, keeping a 1 add buffer to prevent the debuff from falling off, killing it if necessary. Thoughts?
We place people in phase 1 2 per clock position, roughly (look at al'akir's platform like a analog clock). there are little circles on the floor we use as markers for where to stand.
9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, two dps.
6 o'clock is the tank and a healer.
between the 9-6 positions and 3-6 positions put a dps and a healer.
we run 1 tank/3 healers/6 dps.
Dodging wind walls is everyone's responsibility and if you want to master phase 1 you just have to keep an eye out for where it will spawn constantly. I'm normally at the 3 o'clock spot with a warlock and we usually get the first wall on our side 90% of the time, either right before the first knock back, after, or during. you just have to start planning for how you run towards Al'Akir for the knockback so you will end up in the gap for the wall or have enough time to avoid it, or simply jump off the platform and hopefully use cooldowns/healthstones to survive if you take damage while floating back. If you will get knocked off by the knockoff and have a way to get back, like blink or demonic teleport or goblin racial, make sure you use those abilities too.
Phase 2 we wait until the third add is up and then burn the first, and stagger killing them as you described. You may want to just have one ranged dps responsible for killing the adds if they can burn then fast enough, or call out when they want the marked add killed by ranged. Again remember the priority is to still watch for wind walls from either direction, if you lose stacks on Al'Akir but everyone lives dodging a wall that's preferable while you're still learning the fight.
For Phase one, put 2 people per spade. Tank + Healer in the middle. Healer + DPS on each side. DPS + DPS on the ends. The 2 DPS Teams will have to keep a watchful eye on when Squall Line is going to form, and get comfortable getting behind it, or well in front of it to get into the gap. It helps to have Static positions for Phase 1, so people can get used to the timing of when a Squall Line comes in conjuction with Wind Blast so they can adjust accordingly.
Also. The Squall lines switch which direction they come from every time. IF it starts on the Left and moves Right, the next one will start on the Right and Move Left. And Vice Versa, if it starts on the right and moves left, the next one will start on the left and move right. This pattern will continue all the way to phase 3.
For Phase 2. Let 3 Adds spawn, and then try to keep 2-3 up. By the time you get to 30% you will have slowly dwindled them down to 1 or 2. at 28% try to kill the remaining stormlings before Phase 3. The way we take care of the adds is our Warlock will Soul Swap his dots onto every Add, and the Elemental Shaman controls when they die. After 3 has spawned, he is exclusively DPS only the adds, and making sure they don't die too early. I think one of the biggest problems people have with this fight is that they kill the adds too early, you have to control their deaths and it is the most important part of the fight IMO (Second to people not being retarded and getting caught in squall line).
Make sure you stack up for Phase 2 immediately. Phase 2 comes for us right when the second Squall Line passes me(the tank, standing in the middle spade).
I was not aware of this. This is awesome!
We are following the tankspot guide for doing him. Anyone have any suggestions.
Our raid composition varies but last night it was me as DK MT, Beartank OT, Shammy, Druid, and Pally heals. Ret pally, warrior melee dps. 2 mages and a shadow priest ranged dps.
Any advice would be lovely!
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Warrior tanks also have the shockwave stun that'll knock 'em out of it. Really though you just have to bash it into peoples heads to always use their cc's.
If your ranged can't kill the add in time, have melee peel and help. It sucks, but if you have 2-3 melee it might be necessary for at least one of them help out.
Worship is just something you need to practice. It takes some time for everybody to get it into their head that they need to look at nearby group members and potentially interrupt them while you are all chasing the add. Every class can do something to interrupt worship.
Also, consider dropping a healer and using six dps. Fight is much easier that way.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Also, he didn't specify, but I would suspect their worship troubles are when the add is out, since that forces people to split up more. I don't know what the Tankspot strategy is, exactly, but since like every strategy involves stacking when the add isn't up, I'd assume they are.
Edit: If your raid members aren't doing that fight with enemy healthbars displayed, they're handicapping themselves. It makes it a shitload easier to notice when people get MC'd with those up.
#showtooltip Strangulate
/cast [target=mouseover, harm][harm] Strangulate
Just put your mouse over top of the nameplate and press yo button.
Also I was trying to figure out which specs don't have an on call interrupt for that fight. The only one I know for sure is Resto Druid without Furor but I have a feeling Holy and/or Disc Priest is in the same boat.