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My son won't listen. ARGH!
clsCorwin
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So basically, my almost 3 year old son is in one those those stages where no is his favorite word and he refuses to listen most of the time. He just got a new baby sister, so I'm sure thats amplified things some, but this was happening before that too. Hes also being very aggressive and hitting. His daycare called and apparently they are having the same issues.
Time outs don't work. He pretty much just runs right out from whatever time out spot we put him in.
So any ideas? Whats worked for you, parents and punished children of H/A?
Time outs don't work. He pretty much just runs right out from whatever time out spot we put him in.
So any ideas? Whats worked for you, parents and punished children of H/A?
clsCorwin on
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remember YOU are the boss. He is 3 years old. I am assuming you are at least 20 years older than him. You have his entire life in your hands, everything he gets, he gets from you.
if he still doesn't stay in "time out" then start denying his wants. You're not going to be able to physically keep him in a place because that's attention-seeking behavior fufilment. Do not bribe him, but make it clear that some things do not happen for kids who are brats
but don't just punish. Talk to him about the hitting, sit him down and explain that it's not okay. Explain the rules as much as he can understand
I turned out quite well as to obeying rules and whatnot, and I was a good kid that never really had a rebellious streak
as a child I was hit upside the bottom with a wooden spoon for the extreme end, but you might not want to go down that road. You're doing the "time out" thing instead.
I'll ask my mom what she did when my brothers and I were 3ish
First time gets a warning, second time it's a time-out, third time it's warning that if he leaves time out again he gets his favorite toy packed away, then follow through with the warning... then all his toys... then TV privileges... etc.
Sooner or later he will get that his behavior is responsible for his situation. Don't raise your voice and shout, even if you do spank. Don't give him everything that was confiscated back immediately either, use them as rewards to leverage continued good behavior... and he WILL test you so always stay consistent.
STEAM
It may seem trivial, but I guess it works?
My advice? You see him doing something he's not supposed to be doing, you approach him purposefully (march right for him), pick his ass up, and firmly set him in the corner. If he moves or talks, put him back and swat him on the ass. Let him know: Not fucking acceptable.
Then, later, after he's calmed down, take him aside, and talk to him about why it went down that way. Let him know that next time it happens it'll be worse. Give him a hug, tell him you love him, and send him on his way.
-that time he gave the cat a super-soaker enema when he was 6ish
-that small bridge he blew up with some TNT he and his friend found in the friend's basement
-that time he wanted more power for his model car so he patched into house current
Etc. Upon further consideration, maybe you should be glad the kid's still 3.
His mother would deal with these things by taking about 45 minutes to sit him down and explain calmly what he did and why it was wrong in painstaking detail, and then another 45 minutes to paddle the crap out of him. So he only ever did each bad thing once.
I was more predictable as a child, but I didn't get along with my sister and would often, even from the time I was very little, act out against her. My parents never really did the spanking thing with me, they would just shut me in my room for some predefined period of time, normally anywhere from 5-30 minutes. It was expected that I would stay there and not come out, and if I did they would put me back in. This suited me just fine because I spent much of my time in my room as it was, and anyway my sister wasn't allowed in there when I had time outs. I suppose it wasn't terribly effective in my case, as punishments go.
We both turned out to be tolerable people who have good relationships with our parents who did the best they knew, so I suppose the moral of the story is that you'll probably be fine whatever you decide to do about it as long as you aren't breaking his arm for stealing cookies or drunkenly beating his mother in his presence. Just whatever you decide, be firm, and be consistent. The 'consistent' part is very important.
I've done this with one extremely naughty kid when I was teaching a class of 3 year-olds and it was working. Initially he would struggle and maybe even start to cry but I'd just talk to him without letting him run off. Then when the time is up and I let him go ask him "are you going to be good now?" if he says yes then let him go but go right back to a time out if he misbehaves.
Eventually I could see he was more careful about his behavior and when I let him go from a time out he would instantly treat me like a buddy again; No anger or resentment.
Spanking doesn't work, he just gets hurt, scared, and does it again.
I just tried sending him to bed early tonight, and I have tried taking away privileges when he acts bad oo, which sometimes works, and sometimes not.
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
If you're there in the corner holding him in place, the kid is probably smart enough to know he's inconveniencing you while he's not getting any worse punishment for not staying where he's told to take a time out.
So it sounds like he's the one that's getting away with testing you because you won't stick to your guns and escalate the punishment. He doesn't seem to care if you threaten to punish him because he knows at worst he'll just be in the corner with you holding him there. Your discipline doesn't seem to have any bite to it, and I don't mean physical pain necessarily. But him getting scared shouldn't be a reason to stop spanking. Hell, I was certainly scared and cried a lot as a little tot when I knew my dad was going to spank me. That's what kids do. They make a big fuss when they get in trouble and try to cry their way out of it. Stick to your guns man, he's going to learn over time. Don't expect discipline to either work immediately or not at all.
First of all don't sit with him to enforce the time out. That could be reinforcing his acting out, getting direct attention from you. If he won't actually stay where you tell him to stay lock him up, don't feed him, completely ignore him. Do something other than interacting with him.
I'm probably younger than you but I have worked in childcare for quite a few years, and the important thing with discipline is that you have to be prepared to be a dick. If the kid does something wrong, you have to be prepared with a punishment that may make them not like you for a day, days or even a whole week.
Also bribery does actually work, though its better if you are subtle. Like I said if the kid is being a dick you have to be a dick back, but if the kid is actually trying to engage in proper behaviour you have to encourage the shit out of that.
Discipline is about endurance. Falx had it right on the money. Sometimes it seems like kids have unlimited endurance for bullshit, but if you persevere and use the fact that you control him and the environment you should be able to make him see that good behaviour is actually in his best interest.
https://medium.com/@alascii
don't do this
you are directly feeding into his need for attention
Re: time out
Have you watched SuperNanny? You need to be more persistent. Like to the point of you (and him) breaking down persistent. Put him in time out, when he runs out grab him and sit him there again and tell him that he's going to sit there for a few minutes to think about whatever it is he did, and if he keeps running out you do it again and again. He's a 3-year old. You can beat him at this.
EDIT: Don't sit him on your lap. It's not daddy cuddle time, it's time-out.
You are the adult. You are in control.
Being a parent is hard, we often learn by our mistakes, help is great. I based how I parent on not doing what my parents did, on behaviour theory stuff I learnt whilst at Uni on a teacher training course, but so wish I had known about the Incredible Years when my children were little. It would have saved me making so many of the mistakes I made, trial and error wasn't a good way to develop my parenting skills!
Time in works better with some children than time out - we used time in with one of our foster children, where we stayed with him rather than exclude him, cos he has attachment problems. Time in can be them sat on your knee, but with no attention from you - no eye contact, no talking, no response. For a 3 year old, time out/in should never last more than 3 minutes, and you should end it when they are quiet. Under 6 years old you have no concept of time, and 3 minutes can feel like 3 hours. Also, if you then tell them off after time out/in, or make them say sorry, you could be setting yourself up for fail cos it could just trigger another tantrum. Instead, engage them in something positive, create an opportunity to praise them and rebuild your relationship.
I hate Supernanny, she is so punitive. Discipline means teaching, not punishing. Focus on the positive things he does, praise him for positive stuff whenever you can, decide what irritating things you can ignore, and only use time out/in for serious stuff.
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
My nephew will be three in march. He loves to test boundries now by screaming, throwing things and just seeing what he can get away with. My sister does the following: Ignores him and puts thomas the tank engine on. Lets him monopolize the whole house with his toys and the tv to watch what he wants. When he screams she ignores it or yells at him and threatens but does nothing.
The last visit he was blowing his toy flute in peoples faces and hurting their ears. I walked up to him told him his actions were not acceptable and took it from him. he sulked and got pouty but i immediately picked him up and hugged him and told him i love him. two minutes later we were playing with his trains in his room sharing.
Kids do not know right from wrong and often times dont know why not sitting still or in time out makes sense. Further if you give them no boundries and act like a general hippy they will behave accordingly.
Try the following. Make him clean up every single toy he has and keep them in a central location. Do not let him monopolize the house with his junk. Clearly define his play area. most of all pay attention to them which is what they want most and interact with them and for the love of god dont parent with a damn tv and those atrocious kids shows.
I always say good discipline is like a broken record. You don't get angry, you don't get upset, you just do the discipline thing again and again and again until the kid gets the message.
In this instance you need to keep taking him back to the time-out place forever and a day until he gets it. The correct amount of times you need to do this is... until he gets it.
I used to think 'discipline' was my Dad yelling at me, and that 'discipline' was being mean to kids. After years of doing this job, I've learned:
Discipline is boring.
Discipline is when you're not angry. The kid might be angry, but you're not.
Discipline is actually being kind to kids. Kids like it when they have limits, structures and rules. It makes them feel safe. And they will need to act in a disciplined way when they are older. You've nothing to feel guilty about when disciplining correctly.
OK, apart from the theory/pep talk, what works?
Denying him attention as a punishment works. Time outs are a way of doing that, but it has to be in a way where you deny him attention. So don't keep him on your lap. However, make sure you explain what's going on and don't just lazily ignore him.
Consistency works. Every time you say he is going to be punished, he has to be punished. If he does something wrong, you have to punish him for that every single time. Little kids just don't get our rules. It's so hard for them to understand the logical, structured way our minds work. So you have to keep it simple: e.g. Every time he hits someone, he has to sit in the time-out place. So when he's been a good boy all day and you're tired, still punish him when he does the bad thing.
Immediate punishment works. This is very important! A 3-year-old is rubbish at connecting events that happen far apart. And far apart for a little kid is about 10 minutes. So taking away his priveleges or sending him to bed don't work very well. He may just about be able to connect the bad behaviour with the punishment, but it doesn't really take. Even if an adult can get him, by prompting, to talk as if he connects the two, he doesn't really do it very well internally. So keep the punishment simple and immediate.
Lastly, forgiving him once he's done his time works. If he's naughty and gets punished, don't hold it against him any more. Say thank you for sitting in his time-out place like a good boy, be nice, give him a hug even. That's if he did what you said (apologised etc). Then be nice. Positive reinforcement is very useful, and if you sulk at him afterwards he just gives up coz he can't please you.
That's all worked for me and my student teachers very well. The ones who get killed by their kids are the ones who don't try this stuff. Of course there are different details for different kids, but the basics work.
badass
positive reinforcement of good behavior is just as if not more important than punishment (negative reinforcement) of bad behavior
It is not a good idea to spank or otherwise strike the child.
Physical discipline has been shown in studies to cause psychological problems and, sometimes, developmental issues later in life. We just had a raging debate about this in D&D, and a few of the studies were posted if you need to see them.
You'll notice she always puts the kid(s) back in the chair/spot, then leaves.
What does the kid want? Attention. You're providing it by being there, thus he wins.
True, but from what I've seen, the families she goes to are in need of any discipline. The more constructive aspects will hopefully come after the kid's stop hitting his mom.
When he's in trouble do not give him any response or attention. Put him in time out and if he gets up you silently grab him and stick him back in time out. Every time he gets up you do it again until he gets the message. If you give in AT ALL he will take it and run with it. Do not speak to your child during this point period. Not for reassurance and not for discipline. Reset the timeout timer every time he gets up.
When he actually sits in time out for the whole 5 minutes or whatever ask him if he's ready to apologise. If yes, then ask him what he's apologising for. If no, give him another few minutes in time out, same strategy as before.
It's healthy for kids to be spanked, research has showed that those who get spanked early in life generally grow up to be more successful anyway.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100953.htm
More on that same study:
http://news.duke.edu/2009/09/berlin.html
Older study:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/11/14/14463.aspx
New study, in the year 2010
also here or here
There is really just one study that suggests this based on anything resembling sufficient sample size, and the only variable they were interested in was presence/absence of physical discipline. Lack of physical discipline can simply be an indicator of no meaningful discipline at all, because as you pointed out yourself, proper behavioral discipline takes patience.
The study also doesn't say all that much about growing up to be more succesful, because they only looked at teenagers and their behavior and learning metrics at school. Many of the psychological problems that weigh us down manifest only later in life, and we all know that how you do in high school can't easily be used to predict how your life is going to work out.
edit: yeah, that study you linked.
You guys are right though, about the attention. Its something I know, but in the situation logic completely escapes me. I need to work more on denying that attention when he acts up.
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
Do you think it's better to be feared or respected?
Anti hitting children rant:
If an adult hits an adult, its called assault. If I hit Lewie, I should be charged with assault. If he hit me, he'd probably break some bone of mine, cos he's much bigger and stronger than me. He'd also be charged with assault, as he's an adult. Why should an adult be able to hit a child and call it discipline? Its assault. End
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Not really worse for wear and and when it happened we knew we fucked up.
However, with us, it seemed we were just wired differently. My sister was a constant nuisance even though there was some good consistent discipline (although my sister grew up to be borderline, so maybe that's not a good example) but with my brother and I we would just be horrified to learn that we disappointed out parents, and that was usually enough punishment for us. If it wasn't then explaining in detail why what we did was wrong helped.
I try to explain, but he doesn't seem to remember it. I'll tell him that hes not listening, and that hitting isn't nice. That if he wants to be nice he can't hit people.
He'll say I want to listen, or I want to be nice, but, yea.
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
We did the occasional spank or hand slap. but mostly our discipline consisted of a whole lot of "GO TO YOUR ROOM!"
which worked in that it gave him a chance to calm down with NO outside distractions and it gave us a break from an insane 3 year old.
Our son is 5 now and almost all of the outlandish three year old behavior is gone.
If he moves you say, in a deep, bellowing scary voice "GET back to timeout!"
This will probably sit his ass back down and get his heart racing. After he has served his time out though, you gotta hug him and tell him you love him or something.
BTW, make sure the babysitter and day care are also putting on a united front. It might be a bit tough with the daycare (find out what their discipline policies are and how they're handling it). But for the approach outlined above, everyone should be able to follow it.
Time out in pitch blackness for 5 minutes will make him think for a good long while.
Hey, if you didn't know already all of those articles are talking about one study, and one of the articles is even people saying it isn't correct.