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What's wrong with me?
KiTA
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, a bit of a foreward.
In 1995ish, when I was just getting into high school, I discovered WWIV BBSes in Yakima, WA. That was pretty much the end of my socializing in real life. I have some friends from highschool... but almost all of them were names on a 2400bps modem screen.
15 years later, no one even remembers the BBSes. That includes me. Some of them I vaguely remember -- The Secret Underground, Crystal Lair, The Oyster Bed. I remember making an ass of myself as "The Beast" posting stuff using QWK mail...
But that age is gone. No one remembers them and I have no contacts from back then. The closest is the RAT page -- and honestly, they left the Yakima scene before I started.
In 2000 or so, I discovered IRC. I have logs going back that far. I remember remembering these conversations. I remember staying up till 3 or 4 AM every night, talking with friends about random video games...
I don't remember the actual conversations. I don't remember the people I talked with.
In other words: Almost all my friends are digital, and have been for more than half my life now. And I haven't been paying attention to them.
I work tech support now. Have for 8 years, more or less, since getting screwed at college. I went from working for a small ISP, to working for Dell, to being one of the corporate droids at AT&T. Each stage has been more and more soul crushing and draining.
When I get off work, I don't even remember what I do. Just sit and vege, refreshing forum posts, TVtropes, etc. The PC version of being a couch potato.
It's been literally years since I last talked in some of the IRC rooms. Some of the people I used to talk to every night for hours on end... are completely missing. And I don't even have real names to try and get in touch with them.
Some of them were shocked when I spoke up. They thought I died, and my PC was just never turned off.
Every so often, I remember a name that's gone missing. AWJ, who vanished in 2005 after getting into translating Manga. Purpleguy, who logged out without a word in 2008. KelVix, who... killed herself years ago. Neo Zeromus, who vanished off ICQ one day and never came back.
Am I weird for freaking out about this? What do you do when all your friends are digital, and their names just... stop logging in? Why can't I seem to get anything done other than work - sleep - work - sleep?
In 1995ish, when I was just getting into high school, I discovered WWIV BBSes in Yakima, WA. That was pretty much the end of my socializing in real life. I have some friends from highschool... but almost all of them were names on a 2400bps modem screen.
15 years later, no one even remembers the BBSes. That includes me. Some of them I vaguely remember -- The Secret Underground, Crystal Lair, The Oyster Bed. I remember making an ass of myself as "The Beast" posting stuff using QWK mail...
But that age is gone. No one remembers them and I have no contacts from back then. The closest is the RAT page -- and honestly, they left the Yakima scene before I started.
In 2000 or so, I discovered IRC. I have logs going back that far. I remember remembering these conversations. I remember staying up till 3 or 4 AM every night, talking with friends about random video games...
I don't remember the actual conversations. I don't remember the people I talked with.
In other words: Almost all my friends are digital, and have been for more than half my life now. And I haven't been paying attention to them.
I work tech support now. Have for 8 years, more or less, since getting screwed at college. I went from working for a small ISP, to working for Dell, to being one of the corporate droids at AT&T. Each stage has been more and more soul crushing and draining.
When I get off work, I don't even remember what I do. Just sit and vege, refreshing forum posts, TVtropes, etc. The PC version of being a couch potato.
It's been literally years since I last talked in some of the IRC rooms. Some of the people I used to talk to every night for hours on end... are completely missing. And I don't even have real names to try and get in touch with them.
Some of them were shocked when I spoke up. They thought I died, and my PC was just never turned off.
Every so often, I remember a name that's gone missing. AWJ, who vanished in 2005 after getting into translating Manga. Purpleguy, who logged out without a word in 2008. KelVix, who... killed herself years ago. Neo Zeromus, who vanished off ICQ one day and never came back.
Am I weird for freaking out about this? What do you do when all your friends are digital, and their names just... stop logging in? Why can't I seem to get anything done other than work - sleep - work - sleep?
KiTA on
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Nothing's fun anymore. It's been ages since I just sat and gamed and enjoyed things. I don't upgrade the PC, I don't... do anything. That can't be normal, right?
but they're listening to every word I say
The benefits of having offline friends are far greater than online friends. Sometimes you can even start sexual relations with these people! I don't really mean to be snarky but you really gotta turn the computer off one day and just do shit outside for once.
It's not weird, it's like you got food and water but no shelter. You're just outright needing real interaction with people in the real world.
Why didn't you ever make real life friends anyways? Are you just shy or something?
And I don't think you mentioned this anywhere, but if you really do veg out on the computer a lot, I assume you might not be in good physical shape? Bettering your body with a healthy diet and exercise can really increase your outlook dramatically, and might increase your network of friends (racquetball or basketball, perhaps?). For more info on that though, there's the Fitness Thread.
Yes, online friends are all well and good. I have friends I talk to who I know only exclusively online, but having a friend to physically be around kicks the shit out of text on a screen.
Also, obligatory meetup.com
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
This has worked out okay for me so far.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
This is what I wanted to say in my first reply.
try this: don't get on your computer for more than half an hour (other than work) for a week. I do this sometimes for even longer periods, I am one of those people who disappear for months at a time sometimes and make my e-friends worry (so maybe let your good friends know first).
during the rest of your leisure time, work out, play videogames on a console, go for walks, pick up a new hobby, try some meetup.com groups, anything other than sitting in front of a computer screen pressing F5 for hours. if you live in the climate for it, why not start a garden? fresh air, sunshine, and it'll give you something living that you come home to and take care of. You'll get to watch it grow too, which is fantastic and feels great.
what you seem to need is just some purpose other than online friends. give yourself things to do, and you'll start to meet people through that.
No, you're wrong about having friends on the internet. I've made friends through the internet and Facebook, which blossomed into good real life relationships.
You are right about having friends through the internet exclusively, though. A person needs many real life friends too.
I find that if I get stuck in a rut, doing something creative is a good way to break up my habit of doing 'rounds' on the internet (like right now I'm learning Adobe Premiere and After Effects for a video project).
If you're not artsy you could also just try to learn something new, like a language.
You should still try for social activities first, though. My advice is more in addition to the whole making real life friends thing.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I met my fiancee in an email discussion group a good 5 years before meeting her in real life and then getting engaged 2 years later.
Internet friendships are FINE as long as they aren't your only ones.
Everyone in High School seemed to have an idea of what they were doing in college and beyond. I was more of a lah lah laaaa~~~ Final Fantasy 3... Lah la laaa~~~ type. Going to college "for computers" and getting a job "in computers" was just the default. The default turned out to be "walking retarded southern grandmothers through removing Internet Security 2010 from their 6 year old eMachines".
I have an opportunity to go back to school, but the idea of going back for more IT work is meh. I could go back and try to shore up my programming abilities, although it's been 9 years and I'd be more or less starting over fresh.... And honestly I dunno if I could do it professionally. (It's gotta be better than phone tech support though. Anything is better than phone tech support.)
Alternately, while I've discovered what appears to be a growing interest in horticulture and art, but going back for those would mean admitting that the last 10 years have been, well, a complete waste.
The people from IRC and AIM and the like being MIA is just part of the whole thing, you know?
(I'm not judging your life myself, I'm just going off of what you've said.)
Yeah i met my now ex girlfriend through a random MSN add. We met up at a video game/anime conventionin Vancouver, hung out for like a year as friends. Ended up dating, we were together for nearly 5 years. I mean we aren't anymore, but my point still stands.
What you're noticing right now is that the friends you had online didn't end out sticking around, it's sort of the transient nature of the internet. Much like a bar or something with regulars who come and go. It just happens.
That all being said, you need to find some folks to hang out with that you can form lasting relationships with, and be less friends of mutual convenience (internet is sort of a position where either party is only there when they feel like it).
It's not terribly strange that you don't have many genuine friends, few people really do. I think I have perhaps two or three and I came up the same time you did.
My way of meeting new folks was starting to play pool. It's a casual sport where people are usually pretty mellow and willing to teach you the basics, it's not expensive and even someone way above your skill level appreciates having someone to play with.
Pick something, ANYTHING that will get you out and about a bit. Bowling or a martial art. Join a small gym with regular classes or something. You'll find that the internet friendships while great, were more or less doomed to end the way they did. Not because there's something wrong with them or you're anti-social, but because all of life is transient.
I am going to have to agree with Admaanb on that one man.
I went through a pretty tough situation a couple years back because of a series of bad judgement calls by myself. Kind of hurled me into a deep depression with which I am still kind of dealing with. However, its totally okay. I am facing forward and have goals that I want to accomplish in life and believe in myself to do them.
Anyone can do this.
Not just anyone, YOU can do this. (I sound way too much likea public service announcement and for that I appologize). Dude... you really just sound like you are very unhappy with where your life is going. The WORST thing you can do is keep going down that same path. It also sounds like you are beating yourself up for the stuff you "didnt" accomplish in the past. It may be true that you could have accomplished more than you did, but the fact that you are having this realization and pain is proof of your desire to do more with your life! This is a GREAT THING! There are countles people who live their entire lives not having this realization or feeling. It hurts, yeah... but use it as a motivating force to help push you in a new direction. The other people on this thread are right. It seems like you need to unplug a little bit. This coming from a guy who spends a lot of time on the computer animating himself. lol. I understand your feeling and its not as rare as youd think I believe. I think about the digital age in pretty much the same way. I am torn between the ideas that the age of theinternet is amazing because information flow is incredible, however our clutching to this technology leaves us with a hole in our lives that cannot be filled with MORE technology. It is human interaction and loving of eachotherthat fills it. That is not to say in a hippy dippy sort of way. Just the simple friendship you may share with someone you eat lunch with every once in a while is a form of love and is just one piece you can add to fix that wound you seem to be feeling.
The issue is, the internet as well as many other things can be used the same way a drug addict uses his substance of choice. Escape. From whatever. That doesnt mean that technology cannot be used for thingsother than escape, you for example are making a living off of technology. It seems though that you have somewhat forgot how to feel truly alive outside of it and are REALIZING that. THAT is great. There are thousands of people who do exactly what you are doing and dont realize it. Be proud of that.
Try this exercise out and see how you feel about things afterwards...
Lie down on your bed or on a couch. Close your eyes and let yourself sink into the bed. Feel your body being pulled into the bed. Let yourself breathe and feel the breath moving your stomach up and down. Try to let yourself "fall" into your breath. After doing this for a while you will become more and more calm and you will begin to notice your mind wandering. These are thoughts that we have in our heads all of the time. Let them go and just continue to fall into your breath feeling your diaphram expand and contract. Letting each thought go. You may eventually start to feel different body tensions, let yourself feel them and try not to focus on how "unformfortable" they are. They are just feelings, let them pass over you. Then remember the breath. It is easy to turn the breath into a project trying to hold on to the breath to "make it make you feel better". That is not how this exercise works. This exercise gets you more in touch with the real you. What you feel inside. So just feel what the breath feels like whatever that may be.
I have found from conversation that very few people do this on a regular basis. This seems to be stemmed from the way our digital culture works. THis is an exercise that takes a bit of patience to let the body slow down, and some people get bored quickly and dont like it. But thats the issue isnt it? THey need to be entertained all the time.... anyways getting away from the point at hand....
The reason I brought this up was because this exercise helped me tremendousl to find who I am and what I want in life. I still use it daily. I HAVE to lol. I am a pretty high tension guy and I have to relax myself. I do feel much clearer about things after I do this exercise. It is a form of meditation and there are many more like it. You may want to look into it if you are finding that you are having some emotional and philosophical(?) issues with your life at the moment.
Also, try listening to lectures by Alan Watts. This guy is really smart, and has a voice that will lull you to sleep (in a good way lol). Very interesting stuff that can help you put some stuff in perspective. The best lecture I have heard from him is Myth of Myself. Check him out...
I feel you man and hope you find what you are looking for.
:-D
And man.... if you are into that stuff. DO IT
Forget about what that would make the past. The past is past. If you want to start over go for it. You'll always have the memory of it. :-D
One of my regrets of college was that I went into it just caring about class and work. It was almost like a job for me, so I missed out on making college friends.
You don't need to go back to school for those. You can take them up in your spare time to get yourself out of the house.
For horticulture, you can join some sort of community gardening scheme. You'll meet people and learn about plant care.
For art, take a class in the evening. It'll keep you off the computer and force you to socialize.
You sound like a plant wilting for lack of sunlight. You need to get out of the dark.
The more you do, the more energy you will have. Sitting on a PC typing is very draining in terms of energy. To recharge your energy you need to get out.
I unplugged when I was 19. I played a lot of Everquest and did a lot of Roleplaying chatrooms before that where you had an in-character persona and an OOC persona. Most of the time you just hung out and talked OOC to people, throwing those double brackets ((on everything)) to indicate you weren't talking in character.
Anyways, 19, I decided it was about time I got laid, so I focused on expanding my interests. I learned how to play guitar, I learned to like critically acclaimed music, I became something of a beer snob, and I made a ton of friends and eventually starting having sex.
I plug back into the internet and the wide world of internet friends during a crisis. They help me cope. In 2006, I had just got dumped by my girlfriend who I had been living with for two years and planning on eventually marrying, and I didn't know what to do. An old internet friend convinced me to hop a Greyhound and meet her. We've been married for three years now and she's the best thing that's ever happened to me. She was home schooled, and all her friends were online friends. She was able to unplug by meeting people she met online in real life. She would start talking to someone, and then their friends would add her on their AIM, then before she knew it she'd know six or seven people in Florida really well and save up money at her dead end job to go visit them.
My point is, I abandoned the internet in order to find some semblance of a real life with face-to-face people. What eventually made me the happiest though was using it and the friends I had tenuous connections with to create real relationships with people who previously were just text and avatars. Meeting my wife was a trip, and would have been extremely rewarding even if we didn't end up falling in love and tying the knot. My advice would be to unplug, certainly, but not to abandon hope of finding those like-minds entirely, because they're there. You met them on the internet, right? Meet them in person and reap the crazy results. You won't feel like you're wasting your time anymore.
It starts by asking for their phone number and just calling to talk sometimes. Try it out.
I still hold my opinion that you should get out and do stuff too though. If it's because you're shy, force yourself into social situations. It will be unbelievably uncomfortable for a while, but it gets easier each time. I used to be incredibly shy. Not to the point where I couldn't make friends, but to the point where I wouldn't go up to employees at a store to ask if they could help me find what I need because ho'mygod it was a new person, and I was very awkward talking to people I would just meet. However, I realized this was a big problem, and got my self a job that forced me to interact with hundreds of people each day. Answering phones, talking to people in person, you name it. And guess what? I'm not shy any more.
Even if you're not shy, YOU just need to take action in making friends, and getting yourself out there.
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
I agree. And you don't have to take it that seriously. You don't need to go back to school to make anything official. If you have interests, part of the great thing is that you can pursue them Do-It-Yourself style. You don't need a teacher telling you what to do.
I don't have any friends in real life, either. I'm not sure what to do about it.
My advice to you (and the OP). Go to one of your local game stores, assuming you think you could be into some card games or mini-war gaming.
You will find it easy to socialize with people you have common interests in (in the real world!). Its a first step.
I speak from some personal experience. I am incredibly awkward in most social situations. Monday night warhammer and D&D on sat's is great for me.
As far as the art and horticulture, this is why we have community colleges. Take a class or two and meet people who are interested in the same things you are.
If you want to go back to school full-time for a degree, I say go. So you're 29. Big deal- I'm almost 28 and am nearing the end of my first year of living on campus with a 2.8 average so far.
Honestly, I think you'd do well going for a programming degree with art or horticulture minors, if they offer them. You might end up having to repeat all your courses, but you know a lot of the material already and it'll stick a lot more easily than the first time through. Not to mention all the stuff going on around campus- you'll find something to do.
As far as online friends? Well, I've lost track of quite a few myself. Lots of my old haunts are still there, but nobody really remembers the old crowd and 90% of the people I knew have vanished. I miss a few of them, too, but there's something to be said about making new ones.
Besides- programming is a hot job market. If you get the skills, you could get a better job than IT help desk jockey.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Ha, I did the EXACT same thing in the chat rooms. I had turned 18, finally gotten online and it was like a whole new world to me.
I'm not proud to say it, but that thing took over my life. Staying up god knows how many hours in those rooms, ignoring invitations to go out to a movie by the couple of RL (Real life as we used to call it) friends to stay in, etc. And now, a couple of years laters I really only have two things to show for it:
1)Memories of one crazy girl I met online who sorta was my girlfriend. She was a stripper, heavely into cosplay and had a life filled with drama. Of course she paid attention to me, so I thought she was the most awesome person in the world. She actually hit me up for 30 bucks to make rent like two weeks ago...and I caved in. :x
2)Another girl, this one just a friend. She's probably the only lasting friendship I made in the 10 or so years I met online people. She was an encouraging factor in me losing weight, and I would actually consider her a friend.
But that still doesn't guarantee you'll have the courage to do it.
Good night and good luck.
If you're feeling unhappy, none of your hobbies are making you happy and all your friends are digital, then the past 10 years have been a waste. Now you can either accept that, go out and try the stuff that looks interesting to you and really ENJOY and live the next 10 years, or you can keep sticking your dick in a cheese grater and keep hoping that it'll feel nice if you do it enough.
By making this thread you're essentially telling us that you feel that the past 10 years have been a complete waste.
Dude, do you think anyone looks back at what they did 10 years ago and thinks "man, everything I did was AWESOME!" No, they see a really bad date, an embarrassing moment, a year where you had big plans but didn't do any of it. Hopefully they also see some good stuff like, I don't know, not getting hit by a car?
Did you know you had these interests 10 years ago? According to you, 10 years ago your interests were chatting on IRC. Now you sound pretty bored by that idea. There's still plenty of activity in chat rooms and online in general -- what it sounds to me is that you're bored with the idea. It sounds like you've moved on, but you haven't come up with something new to actually replace the routine. You're used to coming home and hopping on the computer. But now you're not sure why you're even doing it because you're not getting any enjoyment out of it.
If you're worried that this is unique to you, don't be. Lots of people lose interest in some things and pick up other hobbies. If you're worried that you're just spiraling like everyone else, don't be -- you apparently have stayed employed and you're now realizing that what you used to doesn't interest you anymore.
It sounds like you need to break the routine to figure out what you want to do, though. In this particular case, I think you should eliminate the "passive" things around you. In this case, you're using the internet passively -- just going to the same sites and refreshing. TV is also passive. Unplug your computer and your TV, and force yourself to live without those things at home. Let yourself think about what else interests you. Yes, you will probably end up researching it on the Internet, but that's your challenge to yourself -- use the computer ONLY for researching the new hobby, not for any of your passive sites. You can even ask here in another thread. Just don't go into a Chat thread and refreshrefreshrefresh.
Finding motivation isn't easy, but you've already done the first step by realizing that you're just wasting time currently. Don't worry about the past -- when you were chatting with a lot more people on IRC and BBSs, you weren't "wasting time," you simply found it a lot more interesting and engaging than you do now.
I mentioned my feelings to a few friends, and one of them from IRC confessed to feeling the same way (dead end job, no feeling of accomplishment, no local friends, lots of regrets, etc). He's apparently decided to seek therapy locally. Another reminded me that a IRC room that I've been hanging out in for 10 years has a yearly get together, which I'm going to try to attend finally. He says that having faces to the names makes all the difference in the world.
Also going to try to hit up PAX next time it's up my way. (Northwest coast.)
One of my IRL friends (currently in Alaska) sent me this in response to my moping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKBRG_QgEAM
As well as a series on the Art of Manliness blog:
http://artofmanliness.com/2010/01/19/building-your-resiliency-part-1-an-introduction/
Ultimately I think it's a few issues at once. I feel bad for losing touch with my IRC friends, feel bad for not socializing as much as I used to, worry about the missing members from the rooms... (The "At least you know when IRL friends die" thing really hit close to home.) But I don't think it's that I'm moving away from them, it's that I'm just not doing... anything. Not gaming, not cleaning up around the house, barely watching TV, etc.
It's not "I'm replacing my interests with other interests," it's "I'm sitting around getting nothing done."
It's the same with everything else, too -- My job performance at Dell was steadily dropping, I was told that I had an increasingly bad attitude, I don't get anything done around the house, etc. The new job is even worse.
One friend suggested keeping a journal or log of where my time goes, so I can try and figure it out. Might try that.
I think part of it is my unahppyness with how college turned out -- my Community College switched me from CS/Programming (an AA degree) to an unaccredited IT/Software Support (an AAS that doesn't transfer), and I was too passive back then to realize the difference. Being passive is a real problem, but... Bleh. I just didn't expect to be doing phone tech support for a decade, ya know?
But yah. The WIA program would also allow me to go back to school for 2 years, government paid -- I qualify for that due to Dell screwing our town.
Financial aid would, maybe, help going the rest of the way to a 4 year.
When someone says "no brainer", this is the kind of decision they are talking about -- free school for 2 years, plus unemployment for that whole period... or working at a job that honestly isn't getting any better? Yeah.
Ideally I'd switch schedules at work or go part time to go back to school in the evenings... but I've been told flat out that they expect me to be available 365/24/7, and that I don't have the right to ask for a different schedule, no matter what happens in my life. Doctors appointment and the like? I have to beg someone else to switch schedules with me. Such is the life of a permanent temp.
While they seem to be great people, I was one snarky comment from my supervisor away from telling him what he could do with his "call metric goals" speech today. It's not a healthy environment... but it's money.
I could quit my job immediately and go on Unemployment, and only take about $100 a week cut there, but... that seems wrong somehow. I've been steadily employed for the last 8 years or so, dropping that would just be... Odd.
We'll know more tomorrow -- they're unrolling a new "operation model" which basically means "the idiots who think a 20 minute call goal is realistic are going to determine how fast your calls come in." Should be entertaining, I'm expecting a goodly number of people to quit on the spot.
A friend sent me a job posting from her university for an Desktop Support Technician. $20 an hour starting, but... it's in Alaska. She says I could probably get on, and then take classes part time, I believe for free or at an absurd discount.
But... Alaska. That's a big move for a job.
The plan and reason I've been saving up cash a lot lately (I'm up to almost $8.5k) was to buy a car and house, but, maybe that should take a side seat towards realigning my education. I'm really, really torn on that. It'd be nice to have someplace I can, without an asterisk, call home. But it'd involve going about $50k in debt (unless I listened to my mother and held out for a $10,000 house) -- not good when I'm still on as a temp, in a job that I'm evaluating the possibility of quitting from.
Or maybe I should not worry too much about it (although getting a BA in ANYTHING would be better than stopping at an AAS...) and just self retrain myself towards a career in computer programming, or running a vineyard, or editing manga professionally...
As for IRL friends... Difficult. I moved 700 miles to take the job at Dell and didn't make too many connections locally. There is a local gaming store, maybe it's time to pull out the absurd number of Warhammer figurines I own (but haven't put together) and start playing 40k with the local kids on Wednesday nights. That would require I be a lot more assertive than I am right now -- I have trouble even making eye contact with people, even close friends. I kinda seize up and get short of breath whenever I try.
... If I could find someone to switch schedules with me on Wednesday, of course. I work 11 AM to 7-8 PM. Makes doing anything a bit difficult.
I never really socialized in high school et all -- was too obsessed with SNES games and the like. I didn't really put any value on socializing with my peers, I found them mostly to be petty chaotic notjobs that made no sense and seemed obsessed with jokes I didn't get, for the most part. At least with Kefka and Bowser you knew where you stood, ya know?
Edit: Aaaand I just discovered this. Well, that's one IRC friend I don't have to keep trying to get back in touch with.
If you'll excuse me, I need to go get very very drunk now.
Edit2: Oh, fuck me. He was on EFNet all these years, and I never knew. I've been on EFNet for 10 years now, nonstop, and I never knew, cause he was using a different nickname than I was expecting.
That was kinda cool..
I have to remember this the next time I get asked to go to a LAN and say "meh, I can just play over the internet.. its the same thing"
Do it! Your life needs a major shakeup. Move to Alaska and become a different person. One you are more comfortable with.
When you move, don't get your internet linked up.
Life is nothing without adventure.