Eh, they need to do something about warpgates and pylons, at least in the PvP match, because it's my understanding that high level protoss v protoss matches are entirely decided by proxy warpgates and building pylons on your enemies base.
This is an incredible trick. But allowing me to build a pylon on/near your base means you should be looking around in your "controlled" area. It's a form of map control, if I'm building on a spot you should control, with a unit that is really easy to kill... you deserve my proxy rush. All you really need to do is build a few pylons/supply depots or stick an overlord out there yourself.
Supply depots? Overlords? I'm specifically talking about protoss v. protoss. Anyway, this is where I was getting my information from:
Even so, know what's going on in your territory. The whole idea is to sneak a probe past the bottleneck at the ramp. If you don't let me do that, or if you catch me in the process, the tactic fails. As far as high risk tactics go, it really isn't too risky for the attacker. But, if you're clever, you could even allow them to warp in a couple units...not so many that you can't wipe out easily, but if its a rush your looking at, taking a pylon, probe and 4 or more zealots out represents a decent victory.
On the other hand, I like to build a proxy pylon and just leave it. I may harass a little, but my real goal is as I begin my major assault on your base, Ill have a nice force of DT's or just Zealots to flank you with. If you are well defended at the front, ill hit from behind to draw your fire, then go in through the front.....honestly this is more effective with a Warp Prism, and isn't a tactic specific to Protoss....but i like long games, I hate finishing someone off before i can get my sweet tier 3 units out.
I don't think you understand how exactly the strat works. There is no sneaking a probe past any bottleneck, since there is no bottleneck when the probe gets to your base. The probe that builds the pylons is the scouting probe, so like I said earlier, unless you block off your ramp with like five probes randomly, or chase around his scouting probe with enough probes to surround it you won't be able to kill it before he can put a pylon down.
I probably wasn't clear, By having the probe in before the bottleneck is up, you sneak your whole army in past the bottleneck. But, by the time you have Warp Gates, i.e a cybernetics core and the upgrade, plus the 10-15 seconds or whatever to change your gates over, 2-3 zealots isn't hard to have, so long as you have scouted their proxy, you should be able to either kill it, or at least harm it and be ready for the warp in... at worst you're making him spend minerals on more pylons as you are killing his proxy. I understand it may be more difficult at high level play, but against the people I have played, if i see it, i can defeat it, if i dont see it, its a total surprise and they gangrape my base....
The way the build works is that the proxy player easily saves up enough for 3~4 Pylons. You cannot kill that many Pylons with the amount of Zealots you can have by that time. Then he proceeds to warp in Zealots 2 at a time about 3 times, then he warps in 3 at a time, and this is still faster than you can make Zealots because Warp Gates produce faster than Gateways. If you built 2~3 Zealots already, your Warp Gates will be later than his.
He also doesn't even need to kill an equal amount of Zealots to those he loses because if he kills enough Probes per Zealot, which he will unless you pull them away from mining, he will win by attrition. If you do pull Probes off mining, you will still lose by attrition because you can't afford to produce Zealots continuously.
eeSanG on
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Nice video lurk. That video is also making me think about corruptors more. It seems a shame almost to convert them to broodlords back at your own base and fly them over. Why not fly them over as corruptors with your army, taking advantage of their decent speed, use them to to clear any air your enemy might have or shut down as many building as you can with their ability, and then convert them into broodlords? Seems like converting them on the frontlines was safe enough anyway.
I have an 8600 GTS. Don't laugh. It was new when Bioshock came out.
What are the chances this precludes me from the beta and how will it handle retail without an upgrade?
That's the GPU I have. I also have a P4 3.4gHz processor and 2gigs of ram off Windows XP SP2. I can run the game well on lowest settings in 1v1 though I will slow the game down in a late 2v2.
You will probably not make it in through the opt-in with similar specs since last I heard there's something like a 4gig ram requirement.
I got in and the comp I used for the test was below the beta requirements.
How well it runs the game is yet to be seen, since it was a comp at my friend's net cafe and I haven't tried playing there.
Eh, they need to do something about warpgates and pylons, at least in the PvP match, because it's my understanding that high level protoss v protoss matches are entirely decided by proxy warpgates and building pylons on your enemies base.
This is an incredible trick. But allowing me to build a pylon on/near your base means you should be looking around in your "controlled" area. It's a form of map control, if I'm building on a spot you should control, with a unit that is really easy to kill... you deserve my proxy rush. All you really need to do is build a few pylons/supply depots or stick an overlord out there yourself.
Supply depots? Overlords? I'm specifically talking about protoss v. protoss. Anyway, this is where I was getting my information from:
Even so, know what's going on in your territory. The whole idea is to sneak a probe past the bottleneck at the ramp. If you don't let me do that, or if you catch me in the process, the tactic fails. As far as high risk tactics go, it really isn't too risky for the attacker. But, if you're clever, you could even allow them to warp in a couple units...not so many that you can't wipe out easily, but if its a rush your looking at, taking a pylon, probe and 4 or more zealots out represents a decent victory.
On the other hand, I like to build a proxy pylon and just leave it. I may harass a little, but my real goal is as I begin my major assault on your base, Ill have a nice force of DT's or just Zealots to flank you with. If you are well defended at the front, ill hit from behind to draw your fire, then go in through the front.....honestly this is more effective with a Warp Prism, and isn't a tactic specific to Protoss....but i like long games, I hate finishing someone off before i can get my sweet tier 3 units out.
I don't think you understand how exactly the strat works. There is no sneaking a probe past any bottleneck, since there is no bottleneck when the probe gets to your base. The probe that builds the pylons is the scouting probe, so like I said earlier, unless you block off your ramp with like five probes randomly, or chase around his scouting probe with enough probes to surround it you won't be able to kill it before he can put a pylon down.
Evidently some idiots enjoy doing this, then warping in a shitload of cannons off the pylon instead of Warp Gates bringing in Zealots or whatever.
It's pretty fucking annoying to have three cannons blowing away your zealots the second they finish building.
I have an 8600 GTS. Don't laugh. It was new when Bioshock came out.
What are the chances this precludes me from the beta and how will it handle retail without an upgrade?
That's the GPU I have. I also have a P4 3.4gHz processor and 2gigs of ram off Windows XP SP2. I can run the game well on lowest settings in 1v1 though I will slow the game down in a late 2v2.
You will probably not make it in through the opt-in with similar specs since last I heard there's something like a 4gig ram requirement.
I got in and the comp I used for the test was below the beta requirements.
How well it runs the game is yet to be seen, since it was a comp at my friend's net cafe and I haven't tried playing there.
I'm rocking an Athlon 64 3500+, 1GB DDR400 RAM, and a Nvidia 7600GT on WinXP, and I got in.
My going theory is that they're particularly interested in testing it on shitty hardware, so if your specs are low, you've got a better than average chance to get in. I believe this because I do not get nice things and this is the only way I can rationalize my good fortune in getting into the beta.
Salvation122 on
0
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
I dont get it, if he can warp in a pylon and then zealots cant you use the zealots and a probe or two to drop the pylon?
slightly more micro required to build units, you don't just click on the building and click to build the unit (or hotkey). You have to select the building, click (hotkey) the unit, then scroll to an area where you have pylon power and click to warp in the unit.
thats the only disadvantage though.
Dhalphir on
0
Tossrocktoo weird to livetoo rare to dieRegistered Userregular
HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
oh holy wow, i just played my first game as Protoss. God that was a refreshing change of pace.
Granted he forgot to block his choke so my zealots could rampage right into his production line, but it was nice to finally win against someone who was favoured over me.
I think i might switch from terrans for a bit and see how this goes.
I dont get it, if he can warp in a pylon and then zealots cant you use the zealots and a probe or two to drop the pylon?
slightly more micro required to build units, you don't just click on the building and click to build the unit (or hotkey). You have to select the building, click (hotkey) the unit, then scroll to an area where you have pylon power and click to warp in the unit.
Woohoo I made platinum! 8/10 matches. Let's see how long I can stay there!
Forever? I don't think you change leagues once you're in
Nope, you can move around in leagues. But I think they are doing some sort of weird set time to move everyone around, a lot of people got moved all at once after seeing no change for awhile.
GogoKodo on
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I dont get it, if he can warp in a pylon and then zealots cant you use the zealots and a probe or two to drop the pylon?
slightly more micro required to build units, you don't just click on the building and click to build the unit (or hotkey). You have to select the building, click (hotkey) the unit, then scroll to an area where you have pylon power and click to warp in the unit.
thats the only disadvantage though.
So if you're a high apm player, no disadvantage.
Alternatively, bind every warp gate you build to the same hotkey group so they're conveniently accessible.
Posts
The way the build works is that the proxy player easily saves up enough for 3~4 Pylons. You cannot kill that many Pylons with the amount of Zealots you can have by that time. Then he proceeds to warp in Zealots 2 at a time about 3 times, then he warps in 3 at a time, and this is still faster than you can make Zealots because Warp Gates produce faster than Gateways. If you built 2~3 Zealots already, your Warp Gates will be later than his.
He also doesn't even need to kill an equal amount of Zealots to those he loses because if he kills enough Probes per Zealot, which he will unless you pull them away from mining, he will win by attrition. If you do pull Probes off mining, you will still lose by attrition because you can't afford to produce Zealots continuously.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Now to sit patiently and wait for SC2 beta or Cata beta which ever comes first
(or at all
I got in and the comp I used for the test was below the beta requirements.
How well it runs the game is yet to be seen, since it was a comp at my friend's net cafe and I haven't tried playing there.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
I won't forget you s! I'll never forget you!
Lemming you scum! You got in! I'll never forgive you!
RAGE!
I forgive you.
I'll just keep praying for another unlikely wave to hit one of my two accessible B.net accounts.
If SC2 hits the shelves and you still suck I'm gonna be fucking disappointed.
Damn right. We'll wipe the floor with him.
Danger you'll be proud of me! I'm rotating between all 3 races while I play! I won't just be a toss newbie anymore!
Damn, I need to work on my micro so I can actually use Infestors, because that is badass.
Evidently some idiots enjoy doing this, then warping in a shitload of cannons off the pylon instead of Warp Gates bringing in Zealots or whatever.
It's pretty fucking annoying to have three cannons blowing away your zealots the second they finish building.
I'm rocking an Athlon 64 3500+, 1GB DDR400 RAM, and a Nvidia 7600GT on WinXP, and I got in.
My going theory is that they're particularly interested in testing it on shitty hardware, so if your specs are low, you've got a better than average chance to get in. I believe this because I do not get nice things and this is the only way I can rationalize my good fortune in getting into the beta.
Zealot/Stalker/Colossus vs Roach/Hydra/Corruptor
Attack upgrades on Colossi are just insane.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Warp Gates drop something like eight seconds off the build time of a Zealot
So while you're wailing on the pylon, he's outproducing you in your own base
There is none, after getting my first tech building after my cc I usually research warpgates.
slightly more micro required to build units, you don't just click on the building and click to build the unit (or hotkey). You have to select the building, click (hotkey) the unit, then scroll to an area where you have pylon power and click to warp in the unit.
thats the only disadvantage though.
Forever? I don't think you change leagues once you're in
DROPPED 2 GAMES ALREADY HAVE YOU?
DISAPPOINTED.
I'm 9-4 right now! And I only seem to win when I'm zergie! The world is upside down.
Do a lot of mashing H lately?
Good god those things just molest everything
you guys saw that replay where psi storm totally raped a hydralisk spammer? right?
not sure what marines can do to counter though..
Granted he forgot to block his choke so my zealots could rampage right into his production line, but it was nice to finally win against someone who was favoured over me.
I think i might switch from terrans for a bit and see how this goes.
So if you're a high apm player, no disadvantage.
Nope, you can move around in leagues. But I think they are doing some sort of weird set time to move everyone around, a lot of people got moved all at once after seeing no change for awhile.
Alternatively, bind every warp gate you build to the same hotkey group so they're conveniently accessible.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Really? I swear I keep seeing people on live streams selecting and binding every new warp gate to a group.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Might be for easy chronoboosting? Not sure, I think it has production autobound to W though.
Edit: just tested, production is indeed autobound to W.
Whoa wait, I thought you were suppose to be bad Lemming. Anyway good job man, what is your B.net name?