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Long time reader, first time poster - love of my life?
Diogee
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Hey guys. I have been browsing these forums for several years and I have come to respect the opinions and experience of many of the regular posters here. There is a level of honesty in the responses that are posted here that you can't find anywhere else. I never thought I would post here myself - I've always looked at it more like entertainment - but now I am in a very tough position and I'm having a hard time working through it. Maybe I can get some help here.
This is a post about a girl. To give you some background, I'm 23, she is the same age, and up until about 2 months ago we had been dating for almost a year and a half. The first six months of our relationship were fantastic (the honeymoon phase!) and after that it became very difficult. The last year of our relationship was spent often bickering and arguing and in a general state of dissatasfaction with what we had created. I didn't feel trusted, she didn't feel important, and that led to a lot of petty arguements and fights that just got bigger and bigger. Lots of hurtful things had been said between both of us.
2 months ago things came to a head. We got in another arguement over something petty and stupid - specifically I was at work and didn't have time to come see her while she happened to be near by, and she thought I just didn't want to see her. In reality, I was busy, but our relationship was at a point where reality didn't matter any more. It escalated and before long ended with "Fine! Don't call me, I don't want to talk to you any more!"
What was different about this time was that I didn't call. For a week I put her out of my mind and thought this would be the end. She texted me the next weekend and asked to talk to me and I responded by saying "Why? What do we have left to talk about? We have been here before, done this over and over, lets cut our losses and move on". This hurt her tremendously.
Over the next few weeks I began to really analyze and think about what went wrong in our relationship. Unfortunately, I came to see that many of the problems we had were caused by my own immaturity and selfishness. This girl is an amazing person, not to mention one of the most beautiful girls I have ever met in my life, and looking back I absolutely did not show her the appreciation, admiration, and respect that she deserved.
My dilemma is this - I have realized that I made a grave and drastic mistake in letting her go. In being apart from her, and going on a few dates while we were seperated, I can say that I truly believe this girl is the one I want to have in my life forever. She is not perfect, but she is amazing in more ways then I could ever ask for. She will one day be an amazing wife and a fantastic mother - my fear is now that it won't be with me.
Two weeks ago I went back to her and told her how I felt. I sobbed my eyes out and begged for her forgiveness. In her infinite kindness, she said she didn't want to cut me completely out of her life. We've hung out a number of times since then.. it has been an emotional and tumultuous journey for both of us. She says she wants to date me before she hops back into a relationship with me. I know I should be greatful for the opportunity but I am terrified that she might decide I am not right for her. Not to mention, every second I'm with her knowing that she doesn't know if she loves me any more hurts me more then a thousand daggers through the chest. I've given her a lot of reasons to not want to be with me. But I also know in the realizations that I have made that I will never treat her like I did before again.
Does anyone here have any experience with bringing a relationship back from the brink of destruction? Or coming to important realizations about yourself and life in general that have changed your outlook on the world or another person?
I'll leave it there for now, I've already written a short novel. Any and all advice is appreciated - I'm really struggling with what to do.
TLDR :
Fall in love with a great girl
Take her for granted, relationship deteriorates
Break up with her and tell her we have nothing to talk about
Time apart makes me realize how much of a fool I am, beg for her forgiveness and for her back
She doesn't feel like she can trust me and is hurt, I never want to see her hurt again
Internal torture knowing that I might have destroyed the greatest thing to happen to me
This is a post about a girl. To give you some background, I'm 23, she is the same age, and up until about 2 months ago we had been dating for almost a year and a half. The first six months of our relationship were fantastic (the honeymoon phase!) and after that it became very difficult. The last year of our relationship was spent often bickering and arguing and in a general state of dissatasfaction with what we had created. I didn't feel trusted, she didn't feel important, and that led to a lot of petty arguements and fights that just got bigger and bigger. Lots of hurtful things had been said between both of us.
2 months ago things came to a head. We got in another arguement over something petty and stupid - specifically I was at work and didn't have time to come see her while she happened to be near by, and she thought I just didn't want to see her. In reality, I was busy, but our relationship was at a point where reality didn't matter any more. It escalated and before long ended with "Fine! Don't call me, I don't want to talk to you any more!"
What was different about this time was that I didn't call. For a week I put her out of my mind and thought this would be the end. She texted me the next weekend and asked to talk to me and I responded by saying "Why? What do we have left to talk about? We have been here before, done this over and over, lets cut our losses and move on". This hurt her tremendously.
Over the next few weeks I began to really analyze and think about what went wrong in our relationship. Unfortunately, I came to see that many of the problems we had were caused by my own immaturity and selfishness. This girl is an amazing person, not to mention one of the most beautiful girls I have ever met in my life, and looking back I absolutely did not show her the appreciation, admiration, and respect that she deserved.
My dilemma is this - I have realized that I made a grave and drastic mistake in letting her go. In being apart from her, and going on a few dates while we were seperated, I can say that I truly believe this girl is the one I want to have in my life forever. She is not perfect, but she is amazing in more ways then I could ever ask for. She will one day be an amazing wife and a fantastic mother - my fear is now that it won't be with me.
Two weeks ago I went back to her and told her how I felt. I sobbed my eyes out and begged for her forgiveness. In her infinite kindness, she said she didn't want to cut me completely out of her life. We've hung out a number of times since then.. it has been an emotional and tumultuous journey for both of us. She says she wants to date me before she hops back into a relationship with me. I know I should be greatful for the opportunity but I am terrified that she might decide I am not right for her. Not to mention, every second I'm with her knowing that she doesn't know if she loves me any more hurts me more then a thousand daggers through the chest. I've given her a lot of reasons to not want to be with me. But I also know in the realizations that I have made that I will never treat her like I did before again.
Does anyone here have any experience with bringing a relationship back from the brink of destruction? Or coming to important realizations about yourself and life in general that have changed your outlook on the world or another person?
I'll leave it there for now, I've already written a short novel. Any and all advice is appreciated - I'm really struggling with what to do.
TLDR :
Fall in love with a great girl
Take her for granted, relationship deteriorates
Break up with her and tell her we have nothing to talk about
Time apart makes me realize how much of a fool I am, beg for her forgiveness and for her back
She doesn't feel like she can trust me and is hurt, I never want to see her hurt again
Internal torture knowing that I might have destroyed the greatest thing to happen to me
Diogee on
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I say this, because you got along great for two months, then began to bicker about petty things. Petty bickering really isn't petty at all, it is just the pea under the stack of mattresses. Which is to say, the petty things aren't the problem, but that petty things disturb you (and she) is a problem.
Why can't she trust you? What is wrong with your relationship that you can't go to work without her needing your attention? What would this be like in 5 years, on your bachelor party night, in 10 at your friend's bachelor party? What about a shared bank account? You guys are fighting over shit as trivial as times between conversations and you think you'll be able to share a credit card.
"Internal torture knowing that I might have destroyed the greatest thing to happen to me"
Boo goosing hoo. Sorry, but it is not the greatest thing that ever happened to you. It may feel like that, sure. I'll give you a hint, I'm 30, I felt the way you feel at 23 once, I've felt this way about 9 times since. If I'm lucky I'll feel this way once or twice again then won't feel it again until I'm 70. Only when I am 70 will I be right in grieving for the loss of the "greatest thing to happen to me."
You feel like this now, because NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TO YOU YET.
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Thanks for the words of advice.
I don't hold any grudges against her for what she has done in our relationship.. however, I know she definitely holds some against me. Rightfully so, but its difficult none the less.
It's really tough to try and resist wanting the relationship to be as close as it used to be because I know I love this girl. I want to be even closer, but she isn't ready for that, not nearly. I am trying to look at the big picture and say if this works, we've got years and years to grow our closeness but my feelings are so overwhelmingly strong right now.. its so hard to stay rational and look at it like that in the moment.
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Very harsh, sounds like you've been ravaged by women in the past. There is the possibility that they can grow together with open communication, often times just pointing out that "Hey we argue over stupid shit and it's not worth losing you over" and making both parties aware of what is happening is enough to squash it right there (atleast with my wife). I will admit the OP seems pretty vulnerable right now and that is amping up their old feelings by over 9000!!!!!
But, there's always a chance it could work, may aswell try. For the love of all that is holy though, if it's just not working and you fall into the same old pitfalls don't be that emo guy, just bail.
This is most definitely the little voice in the back of my head speaking.
What you've said is absolutely right. There are some differences in the core foundations of how we view relationships that we have shared from the beginning. She needs a lot of attention and is always fearful that I am going off and finding other girls. This in turn makes me not want to answer her questions because I feel untrusted, so she gets more skeptical, etc etc horrible cycle.
I look at that and I say - what if I just try harder? What if I just answer her stupid question about if there are girls at the party im at? Aleviate her fears, and eventually they will pass. We are both young, she is insecure because she has not discovered what she wants to really do with her life... is that a reason to not be with someone? Or is that something you can help someone get past and grow through?
I'm a good looking, smart, successful guy. I know I can find other girls as attractive or as smart as this one. But what I don't know is if I can find someone as faithful. I would never in my life question her fidelity towards me because she is such an honest and commited person on so many levels. Beautiful, smart, and faithful is a difficult combination. Beautiful girls get a lot of attention - I'd absolutely hate to fall in love again with someone I think is great just to end up being cheated on...
thanks for the other side of the picture. This is really tough.
What, it's not harsh, I haven't been ravaged by women. I've been in relationships that ended. And it sucks when they end, but trying to rebuild them does not work.
Arguing over stupid shit is not the problem. The problem is the arguments themselves, most arguments over stupid shit spring from an inability to articulate what is really wrong in the relationship.
I'd say there is almost no chance that what they have will work. I'll just point to the evidence, you know, the evidence that shows it did not work.
She doesn't trust him? Why? Is the mistrust earned? If so, what caused him to stray, or do whatever it is that earned her mistrust in him?
I know I said that this was a topic for another thread, but looking for the love of your life sabotages current relationships. Try to get out of that mode of thinking. It works off of the theory that you should be looking to the future, rather than living in the moment. Don't worry about rather or not you have the love of your life. You'll know if you do when the relationship ends or at the end of your life which ever comes first. Digression over.
From what I see you are incompatible, and I'm sure she's a great girl. Grieve for your relationship as long as you need to and move on.
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Get over this fear quickly. Abandonment issues need therapy or good friends to talk through. If I knew you better I could help you, but you should speak to a therapist or a buddy. It's not a rational fear, certainly not something you should worry about before beginning any potential relationships. (Unless the goose comes out and says I fuck around on all my boyfriends.)
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-When you guys are hanging out, DON'T ever make it into a high pressure type of situation (implying things like, "I love you, but you don't know if you love me", making snide remarks about the possibility of her dating someone else, that kind of thing). I did this a few times and it always ended in a fight. I know EXACTLY (EXACTLY) what you mean when you say hanging out with her and knowing she isn't sure if she loves you feels like someone kicking you in the ribs but just DEAL. If you make it into a high pressure situation like that it will not be any fun hanging out with you, and she just won't want to do it. She wants to see if she is still in love with you, let her see.
-Don't act like you have to hangout every x number of days or if she says she is busy she is personally slighting you. Let her call you a few times, give her some space. Pretend that you really are dating because you kind of are.
-Kissing, hand holding, I would let her initiate that unless you know it is the right time.
-Don't fucking say things about the guys she hangs out with. You know what I mean. I used to do this, it makes you look like a chump. Remember, you are cooler than them. Let her see it, don't point it out. You don't want her thinking, "Well, Brian is cute, and whenever we hangout it is really casual and fun. Whenever I hangout with (you) he is really serious and obviously trying really hard, it just isn't fun". You see what I'm saying?
For what its worth, the way it happened with me was we just ended up hanging out a bunch as friends. These hangouts became more and more frequent. After a party at her place I might sleep in her bed, but no sex. Things like that. We've kissed a few times. I'm not really sure if it is the same for you, but it is a weird thing you guys will fall into. It isn't like dating someone else, she knows that if she gets back with you, you guys are going to be in a Serious Relationship again almost instantly and that might freak her out a little.
Basically what I'm getting at is just be the cool dude that you are, and let her fall for you again.
Believe me, I've been there. I've done the "Wow, I'm a fucking idiot for breaking up with you" crying phone conversation. I've done the countless nights where we weren't speaking wondering what she was doing, if she was seeing anyone, if she was hooking up with anyone. I've done the accidentally finding out she was hooking up with some guy and being crushed for weeks. The fighting, making up, dude I've done it all. If you're at the bottom right now, it seems like it never will get better and it's all you can think about, I know, but it does get better. I was the most depressed I've ever been for month, trust me, it gets better.
So yeah, sorry for the long post but I just read so much of myself in your OP that I couldn't resist.
Good luck, and remember that you're still the same person you always were.
basically, what I am saying is
"bail, yo"
As far as chop logic's story... I don't know where that ended. But doing this to yourself is a recipe for months upon months of agonizing over something that could turn out well or poorly. I tried this. Twice. It turned out poorly both times and I kick myself over and over for being a chump about it. Would it have been worth it if it had turned out well? Possibly. But the stakes are really high and the payout is not nearly as good as you think it is from your emotional perspective.
Bam!
If you feel you will really be happy with her, then get back. If you aren't going to be, then find someone else. The qualities you are looking for aren't that hard to find.
but they're listening to every word I say
We've been physical. We kiss regularly.. we aren't hanging out as friends, we are dating and I think she is acting as such. We've even had sex once.. (well 3 times, but one night) although I think she regrets it now and has said she wants to hold off on doing that again. I think she will take me back with time.. I guess the real question is, is that whats best?
A lot of you are saying you aren't. I know I am idealizing the good times in our relationship to a certain extent but at the same time the problems were things that I feel are more signs of immaturity then a flawed relationship or incompatability. She is insecure, i have my own issues.. but these are because we are young. Could working through them together lead to a much more fulfilling and close relationship when we are old?
I dont know.. thats why im here..
Maybe. Or maybe it will lead to a shit ass relationship until you break up again and learn to grow because of it.
I think that is something you are going to have to feel out for yourself. I doubt it can be internet diagnosed.
but they're listening to every word I say
Breaking up with someone is an emotionally intense experience, and during the period of craziness involved it can become difficult to tell what you really think. You get to the point that you supposedly wanted to get to and then the sheer fact of her acknowledging that its over becomes too much to bear.
You say she is the love of your life. But really she is only the love of your 8 or so years of post-pubescent life. Naturally, the thought of life without her is scary.
So yeah- you need to decide if the problems that lead to this point are going to go away in the second time round.
Also one final thing: It seems like the problems are mainly about insecurity and not equal levels of commitment. Do you think going through a break up is going t make these worse or better?
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I'm just saying, from the cursory glance at the story you've given us, my gut reaction to this last question is "probably not"
That said, you're going to have to make that call for yourself, and once you make that bed, you're gonna have to sleep in it.
Well, sure, it could.
But I don't see any reason at all why you're likely to work through them any better than you would on your own, which would lead to healthy relationships for both of you down the road, and I can see lots of reasons why it will be more difficult to work through them together, which could lead to a healthy relationship with this one person, or it could lead to you both postponing the growing process in order to hold on to something that probably isn't worth all this fuss.
Sorry to be the negative nancy here and basically respond to your "how do I" question with "don't," but it's an option I think you should seriously consider.
Happens to the best of us. Shitty, but sometimes these things happen in life to teach us lessons that we'll use in future relationships.
Which of the problems were the ones you didn't cause, by the way? How different would things really have been if you'd been more mature? Do you really have an objective perspective on the relationship now?
Whoops! Nevermind that question; the answer is clearly NO.
Look, there are two kinds of "I want to spend THE REST OF MY LIFE with this person" decisions.
1. Is the "OMG I'm in LURRRVE and I will never do better than this and yeah I know we get in stupid fights every once in a while but I CAN MAKE IT WORK and omgomgomg" variety.
2. Is the "We have been through a lot together and we really deeply understand each others' emotional states, needs, and fears. Our communication is open and honest and we don't avoid subjects that are hard. We understand each other's limits, goals, and our own ability to compromise. We understand the totality of our relationship - with each other, with our families, with our friends, with our careers, with our virtues and our vices." type.
Number 1 is fun for a while and then ends up with a messy divorce, a convertible, and trips to see your kids every weekend and every other Wednesday night. Number 2 still ends up that way sometimes but it's less likely.
You're going through all this, trying to be a better person and go through the dating phase of a relationship you already had and trying to do it better. Is there a moment, even a moment, when it doesn't feel worth it to you? When you wonder what else is out there, and have a doubt?
If those moments exist, you should probably consider breaking this off. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from going through all this if you aren't very dedicated, with the possible exception of learning the lesson that you can't turn back the clock, no really you can't. And if you have any of those feelings, it might be better for you to simply learn your lesson, move on, and be excellent to the next wonderful person you meet right from the start so that turning back time never becomes an issue.
If you decide that this person is really the one you want, do yourself a favor and don't try to rebuild your old relationship. You don't want to be the person who was in it anymore, so it won't fit. Make a new one instead, built around new experiences and new memories, and never try to pigeon-hole it into what went before. Really treat this like a new relationship. If you wouldn't hop into bed with some girl you just met, don't hop into bed with her. If you would take a new girl to the movies, take her to the movies. Starting over is hard to do when the first go fails; you want as little baggage as possible to carry over.
She still loves you, otherwise she wouldn't give you another chance. It's been like 3 weeks now yeah? Maybe just come out and ask her "it's been almost a month, how do you feel?" if you're not feeling it, just say to yourself you tried.
If your immaturity was truly the cause of the break up, then you know for next time and try not to make the same mistake twice. Also you're 23. Most people don't get married until like 27 or so. And that's average! You've got plenty of time! I'm 23 and about a year ago I was in the same position as you. My chest hurt, I was down in the dumps, but you know what? It was for the best.
stay strong!
ps. Just for future reference, crying your eyes out while begging a girl to come back to you is not the way to do it. Just say, "Oh I fucked up, and I see that now, lets start over."
Don't undervalue yourself because of this. Do not take the entire fall for it, objectively look at everything that went wrong. I really doubt you were the sole or majority cause of the break up. If you two really want a successful relationship you need to both admit to the problems caused and work at them.
If you just bend over and blubber "Oh it was me, all me, I'm an idiot" you are only setting up yourself for a miserable future where, at best you believe everything is your fault and at worst, she believes it too.
You've been rather hard on yourself, also. Why is it your fault? Why isn't any of this her fault? I'm not trying to make you blame her for everything, but it takes two to argue, and you can't have been wrong on everything. The work example, for instance, seems rather ridiculous to me. Taking steps forward is great, but to blame yourself for everything isn't fair to you and it wouldn't be a good thing to base your relationship on.
It strikes me as interesting that your relationship fell apart after the honeymoon phase. A lasting, long term relationship would have to get past this, and you can't do so without constant communication. I know that my lady and I argued for a while as well after the snuggle phase ended, but we talked through everything each time. In the future, I would suggest this: Never go to bed angry. If you guys argued, you stay up and talk until its resolved, no matter how painful or sleepy it might be. If you don't have communication, you won't last in any relationship.
You're both young and one of the important things to understand is that while sticking with it and trying to make it work might allow you to grow together, you have an equal chance of growing apart and into different people. Right now you both sound more dependent than in love, which is reasonable if you were together for 1.5 years, but it isn't really something to base a relationship on.
Just to reiterate, you could get lucky and grow into each other but as an individual it might be best for you to take a break from her (even though it hurts and sucks) and to do your own thing until you can both look at a relationship together without being overburdened by previous emotional baggage.
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You're young, take this situation and learn from it for the future.
We don't have the best communication. That has always been a struggle. She takes the things I say very personally and gets emotional and upset quickly which makes it hard to communicate. I look at that and say "Well I can just stay calm and bring her back down" but that is a serious burden. How long can I do that for?
Another big difference between us is religion. She is a christian and her family is as well, goes to church every sunday etc etc. I have never been involved in religion and don't see myself going there. It wasn't a giant problem before, but if we went forward and got to the points of marriage, kids, etc I can see beliefs becoming an issue. Why doesn't daddy come to church with us?
Finally, what frylock said really resonated with me. I'm most definitely in variety #1 of OMG OMG Im in love and I can make it work!! The last thing I want is a messy divorce and visitation rights for my kids. I'm young but I know I want someone who I can love, cherish, and enjoy for the rest of my life.
Even with all the realizations from what I'm reading here.. its still tough. Very tough. I fear that I might have to just learn this lesson the hard way because I just can't risk NOT seeing if this is right.
If things start going south and you can't fix them, don't stick around just because you already lost her once or whatever.
Speaking as someone who has brought a relationship back from destruction, and who has had important realizations about myself and life in general that have changed my outlook on the world and another person...I can say that young people tend to make drama out of shit that matters to young people, that you won't care about in a couple of years. You'll look back on it and laugh and think why did I think that was so important?
What really matters is you, not your relationship. Get yourself figured out so you can be a decent person to be around.