^^Yeah, which is why I try to not give him the chance to use there SK's, I try to kill the avatar, if he gets a SK I melee them so he cant throw, I also use my grave diggers DT prematurely to get a hit.
damn i just lost to a coil rush today. it was on dry ice quarry and I had two geysers when I saw the coil army coming to my base so i send all of my units back and make more gravediggers and 2 ratguts. he teched to tier two during the rush and i didn't notice, and next thing I know there is a painlifter and a skullraker at my stage.
I put an amazing 2 v 2 video in the OP. It's in fast forward and set to Manowar, and it's just perfect.
To improve the multiplayer, I'd make it so Rally, and the Summon Flag are single-button commands you do during flight, and I'd throw in replay. An easy way to see when you zigged instead of zagged, costing you a match, and an easy way to make AMVs.
I still tell people to google "Penny Arcade Brutal Legend Guide," and I've gotten many thanks. Technically, it still works, but it's linking them to the previous thread. Any know how to make the crawlers go to this version?
mickey and me played I Diviculos I and xterm in 2 vs 2 last weekend.
we beat them like 2-3 times by the skin of our teeth. one of the times, it was Ironeheade (us) vs Tainted Coil (them) and on the bloody coast. made me feel pro to win in such a lopsided match up against some of the game's best players.
tainted coil is broken on death fjord. tainted coil is broken in general. kicked our asses the last 2 games.
I was using crabbas' account when this happened. mickey's a surprisingly good player at the game. better then me anyway.
the morkai needs to be on when I play, so we can o 2 vs 2 and I can get beast with Ironheade, the most useless faction that is also my favorite in the game.
also I lost to cantido about twice if I recall correctly. makes my heart sad.
blackgenma on
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” - Albert Einstein
mickey and me played I Diviculos I and xterm in 2 vs 2 last weekend.
we beat them like 2-3 times by the skin of our teeth. one of the times, it was Ironeheade (us) vs Tainted Coil (them) and on the bloody coast. made me feel pro to win in such a lopsided match up against some of the game's best players.
tainted coil is broken on death fjord. tainted coil is broken in general. kicked our asses the last 2 games.
I was using crabbas' account when this happened. mickey's a surprisingly good player at the game. better then me anyway.
the morkai needs to be on when I play, so we can o 2 vs 2 and I can get beast with Ironheade, the most useless faction that is also my favorite in the game.
also I lost to cantido about twice if I recall correctly. makes my heart sad.
That was you both times? Well I still play on Random, and I still can't melee for shit. How is your guide coming along?
Also, I beat Coil with Ironheade on Death's Fijord. Then again, the player was King Brim. :winky:
Oh man, there was another one, which I narrowly one, but it was long, dramatic and exhausting. The thing about Death's Fijord, is that even if you don't have the center, if you take the entire safe side, you're only one geyser down. The timing of how you distract your opponent can steal you the entire center.
I put this video in the OP. It makes me want a Replay mode. It can show you what went wrong, and, as you can see, is good for totally-fuck-off AMVs.
mickey and me played I Diviculos I and xterm in 2 vs 2 last weekend.
we beat them like 2-3 times by the skin of our teeth. one of the times, it was Ironeheade (us) vs Tainted Coil (them) and on the bloody coast. made me feel pro to win in such a lopsided match up against some of the game's best players.
tainted coil is broken on death fjord. tainted coil is broken in general. kicked our asses the last 2 games.
I was using crabbas' account when this happened. mickey's a surprisingly good player at the game. better then me anyway.
the morkai needs to be on when I play, so we can o 2 vs 2 and I can get beast with Ironheade, the most useless faction that is also my favorite in the game.
also I lost to cantido about twice if I recall correctly. makes my heart sad.
Lol, I'll work on being online more, Genma. Lol. Mikey is as good as he is with IH because I taught him a lot of stuff.
He plays coil mostly, though, I can't take credit for that :P
Sorry I haven't been posting. I was gone for the weekend kicking ass in a rockband tournament.
Won a killer trophy.
Also, I miss most of our PA BL Veterans
Players like the guide I made, but google is leading them to a locked older thread. There are new pros to be had, believe me.
Oh? New Pros?
Yeah, [something]1991 was one of them I saw today. He doesn't DC but he had 49 wins and 1 loss. He played like he was doing thing since release.
I think one thing that would make the Double Teams better is making every DT handle completely like a new unit, so that A, X, and AX all do something different.
Like the Bouncer, Eddie would sit on the Bouncer's shoulder's instead. A would make the bouncer punch, X would be the dash punch that Mittens does, and AX would be the DT attack we had now.
weekends. I play almost exclusively on weekends. and it isn't a thing I do every weekend, so don't take what I said to heart. although I 'm interested, I can't say in good consciousness that I'll will try to be on as much as possible so we can play together. if we run into each other online, fair enough.
the guide is coming along S-L-O-W-L-Y.
anyway, it almost time for me to hit up faction specific stuff, so I would like to take this opportunity to ask the local Ironheade expert to give me some advice regarding basic unit usage.
Morkai, since you play ironheade so much, can you tell me how much you use each unit, and how you use them, if at all.
for example, do you make thunder hogs? do you upgrade them? do you make razor girls? do you use them upgraded? do you make upgraded head bangers? just a quick little description based solely on whether they are worth using, because I'm sure everyone knows what each unit does, but when to pull out Ironheade's shitty units is very important, and not so easy.
also, set ups with the roadies and the rock crusher is a must.
as for the double team thing regarding the units preforming new actions.....I feel that is a bit gimmicky. I'd rather have some units be more effective and less broken then anything. an improvement to the bouncer double team would be to throw the bouncer up higher and at a distance, to come down at you like a motor. that way, you can give Ironheade some much needed range. of course, the player should be able to control where he bouncer lands, and see the area of impact through some highlighted Icon of some sort. this should preferably be done before you throw the bouncer, but controlling him while he flies in the air wouldn't be too bad of a a mechanic either.
blackgenma on
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” - Albert Einstein
weekends. I play almost exclusively on weekends. and it isn't a thing I do every weekend, so don't take what I said to heart. although I 'm interested, I can't say in good consciousness that I'll will try to be on as much as possible so we can play together. if we run into each other online, fair enough.
the guide is coming along S-L-O-W-L-Y.
anyway, it almost time for me to hit up faction specific stuff, so I would like to take this opportunity to ask the local Ironheade expert to give me some advice regarding basic unit usage.
Morkai, since you play ironheade so much, can you tell me how much you use each unit, and how you use them, if at all.
for example, do you make thunder hogs? do you upgrade them? do you make razor girls? do you use them upgraded? do you make upgraded head bangers? just a quick little description based solely on whether they are worth using, because I'm sure everyone knows what each unit does, but when to pull out Ironheade's shitty units is very important, and not so easy.
also, set ups with the roadies and the rock crusher is a must.
as for the double team thing regarding the units preforming new actions.....I feel that is a bit gimmicky. I'd rather have some units be more effective and less broken then anything. an improvement to the bouncer double team would be to throw the bouncer up higher and at a distance, to come down at you like a motor. that way, you can give Ironheade some much needed range. of course, the player should be able to control where he bouncer lands, and see the area of impact through some highlighted Icon of some sort. this should preferably be done before you throw the bouncer, but controlling him while he flies in the air wouldn't be too bad of a a mechanic either.
My initial Ironheade setup is like this. First off if a map starts me off with two booths, I'll make 1 Razorgirl and two Headbanger squads (the fighting hasn't started yet so I make a Thunderhog afterward.) If I only start with one booth, I'll make one of each Tier 1 because those squads become much more precious and Thunderhogs cost 90 rather than 100.
If I feel an Aggrotar coming, I'll make two Razor Girls first instead, and buff them immediately, and they'll swat down anyone feeling frisky.
I got the Double Team idea from Battlezone.
In Battlezone, you build vehicles and ONLY vehicles. You are a weak little pilot who will die in like one hit if you have to eject from whatever hovertank or mech you're in. Each vehicle you build is one you're capable of piloting. So each unit has it's own set of weapons that you or an AI pilot uses. And all your allies are using things that you're capable of using.
So the current Double Team system is a slightly limited version of this mechanic. In a BL Double Team, you get just one attack, but it's one that unit didn't normally have, and it's powerful. Which is awesome. Why not make it three attacks it never had?
EDIT - Brother Kubiak is a good player I've never seen before today.
I'm watching the Spongebob movie for the first time, and Lemmy recorded a song for it. I didn't see that coming. They enter a bar and I recognize the bass and I'm like "is that?" and then Lemmy starts singing
I see them come, and I see them go
I see big things and big people that nobody knows
I'm talking at pictures and I'm paintin 'em black
I'm telling you, fish-face, you ain't never coming back
You better swim
Baby, you better swim
You better swim like a tigershark
Or I'm gonna do you in
Yeah
Kubiak is Irish doctor on his bros account. He beat me by the hairs of his chin. I had four stage lights after his rock crusher failed. Then he did bring it on home and somehow won. Cantido I would be more than happy to show you how to defend yourself against infinite combos.
BlackGenma something Morkia does when Ironheade is what he calls a caravan works really well and will allow you to grab geysers. It consists of three head splitters. Good for an early game comeback if needed of course. Another thing that works well is setting a flag by a geyser u need make a rodie and then repeat the process for other geysers. But the game winner is the rock crusher if you get that to grind the base the heart cutters do no damage don’t ask me why though. These are all the things I do that morkia taught me.
Kubiak is Irish doctor on his bros account. He beat me by the hairs of his chin. I had four stage lights after his rock crusher failed. Then he did bring it on home and somehow won. Cantido I would be more than happy to show you how to defend yourself against infinite combos.
BlackGenma something Morkia does when Ironheade is what he calls a caravan works really well and will allow you to grab geysers. It consists of three head splitters. Good for an early game comeback if needed of course. Another thing that works well is setting a flag by a geyser u need make a rodie and then repeat the process for other geysers. But the game winner is the rock crusher if you get that to grind the base the heart cutters do no damage don’t ask me why though. These are all the things I do that morkia taught me.
Oh, well I'll totally add it to the guide if we can play on Friday. Double Fine forums would want that too, they hate it even more than I do... I once got mad at Irish Doctor and ended up feeling like shit afterward. But its something that frustrates a lot of players.
My understanding is AAA(anything), the last hit can be interrupted by mashing A. This is wierd and I did get into a match where the other guy and I were trading three hits over and over. Rolling after the 4th hit is good too. I mean I'm getting a little better at defending myself (I beat blackgenma twice last weekend...)
I've seen a Caravan once and only once. It was a female player, I have no idea who, but it took 20 minutes and I lost.
yea i just had a FUUUUUUU moment. I was playing a game and a guy invited me to join a party, so I accepted the party, but i also accidentally joined the game he was in instead, so i dced from the match and it cost me my 29 .
Headbanger - Basic Melee, Early Game, I make 3 every startup and usually split them among neutral geysers, I never really use them late game.. I use the Double team when melee units are clumped to get free hits off
Razor Girl - Basic Range, Mid to Late Game, I usually use these when I can upgrade them, three of them can take out an avatar if all of them hit, I believe. I also use upgraded girls to stay at my base and stonewall a bleeding death from being dropped there. I double team when I think I need more attack power against a vehicle or something big, NEVER squads of individual units. Also I use it to ward off avatars.
Thunderhog - Healing, Seldom Early, Mostly Late game, I use the Hog when I can upgrade it late game and have it heal up my wounded metal beasts or Razor girls, On The bleeding coast, I usually make one after my headbangers if I'm feeling confident about the geyser conflict, it makes the headbangers go a long way post battle. Double team with it to stun enemies, I wait for the same situation as the headbangers, clumped melee, or I'll lead a charge with a hog and stun units to allow my own to get the drop and attack first.
Fire Baron - Light tank, Early-mid game. These are great against any basic infantry, gravediggers, SK's, even skull rakers provided the enemy won't double team with them, the burn damage is incredible and even better when DT'd with. I use this against Soul Kissers, especially if a battle nun is around, I use it contextually based on the abundance of infantry (or things that could be lit on fire)
Headsplitter - Medium Tank, Mid to Late Game, Probably my favorite unit. I've developed a startegy known as the 'Caravan', Three headsplitters together provide a sort of faux phalanx that really works against most units (Save for heartcutters). The Caravan is hard for an avatar to stop alone because the avatar doesn't phase a headsplitter when attacking. Anvil of Burden for best results. I Double team with these when I need to take down a geyser in a rush (buff them first, of course) or when I need to hit a vehicle (or skull raker) from a distance, since the range is greatly increased and the explosion does additional damage.
Bouncer - Heavy Infantry, Contextual, This unit is very useful in heaps of vehicles. The only problem is it shouldn't be produced when the enemy is on your front lawn. Making a bouncer is a process that requires scouting. I recall one match where I was being rushed by a dirgible and about 8 brood. I had one headsplitter, and I built a bouncer, as he started hitting my stage, the bouncer was already out and ready with another on the way. Double teamed, boom. killed all but one out of range brood. i double team when vehicles are around, but it's not very useful for much else. (Except infantry, bouncer DT's bounce infantry and stun them, allowing for you to DT before they can react against it)
Roadie - Infantry, Mid to late game, My second favorite unit. The Roadie. I can't tell you how many victories I got with these guys when people thought roadies were total crap. I'll make roadies if I'm unsure about my financial situation, unsure about the outcome of an assault I'm about to endure. I like to rally roadies to a place that's out of the way in the map, or a place that enemy units won't walk close to if they're ordered to a geyser or my base, I rally flag in about two to three different places on each stage, and wait for my opponent to leave his base, It's hard to keep your opponent convinced that you don't have roadies, but totally possible. Pick hiding spots. Also, roadies stealthily take down merch booths, if you want to change the game around, rally raodies to enemy merchbooths, they take them down without alerting the enemy, leaving you to cut them off and build your wealth. Also, if you full tier upgrade and have roadies rush their stage, Bring it on Home is a Useful protective blanket for them to attack. Double team is usef
Metal Beast - Infantry, Mid to late game, Really effective against anything that can be burned, burn damage is substantial, I've killed about 900 fans worth of PP's with one beast. they're very fast and very useful. When double teamed with they're amazing due to the forever fire breath and the fact that they're so mobile, under the right circumstances you could take down two or more skull rakers because the beast is so fast the only thing that'll hit it is the Double team of a Raker.
Rock Crusher - A Support Vehicle unless double teamed with, My Strategy is usually the same with this thing all the time, UNLESS you want to get fancy and Send it in alone for a diverseion while the rest of your army gets the drop when you're assaulting.
Are there things I didn't address Genma? I kinda wrote this thing in like 10 minutes, so if you'd like to ask specific questions I can answer them.
Played my second game online, and I totally won! The guy seemed to just send groups of headbangers and I would kill them and he would just send more. At one point he rushed with barons, and I have no clue what happened but they all died. I'm going to say it was because I had a few bouncers but I'm not really sure. I was also sending them flying around with roadies which was fun.
Well in the end I got a rockcrusher which he just couldn't manage to destroy and I won. Pretty fun.
Cantido). You want to hold down the B button until they are about to rock kick are hit their fourth button in the combo. Then you go to town on the A button and you done it you just blocked the infinite combo. Bad thing is I Mangus I found a new combo that works really well. You set them on fire and just hit them with lighting repeatedly until dead you can also throw in some hits when needed.
Cantido). You want to hold down the B button until they are about to rock kick are hit their fourth button in the combo. Then you go to town on the A button and you done it you just blocked the infinite combo. Bad thing is I Mangus I found a new combo that works really well. You set them on fire and just hit them with lighting repeatedly until dead you can also throw in some hits when needed.
Ky Kisaragi reviews BL in the Working Class Gamer podcast. (skip to 57:00) He tried the multiplayer and found out it was awesome. So professional.
He brings up an interesting point. When Tim Schafer was saying "don't treat it like an RTS," he should have said. "It's like an RTS only it doesn't fucking SUCK." But I blame EA's anti-marketing for that one.
The lightning and fire works to an extent, if you can get far enough away that you can hold block for a while, you can block anything.
Eddie is so manly, he can block being on fire, being electrocuted, being poisoned, being eaten by rats, and drowning in blood-puke.
Rock Crusher - A Support Vehicle unless double teamed with, My Strategy is usually the same with this thing all the time, UNLESS you want to get fancy and Send it in alone for a diverseion while the rest of your army gets the drop when you're assaulting.
your strategy is the same for it all the time.....but you didn't tell me what your strategy for the unit is! tell me some set ups you like to do regarding the rock crusher. do you rush it out? do you make ASS LOADS of upgraded razor girls and send it in? you know, that kind of stuff.
when it comes to teching up and producing units. I would like to hear your opinion on when it is good to make units, or to tech up to teir 2-3 or 4. for instance, when you are able to make fire barons and head splitters, do you usually make some units, and then tech up, or do you just tech up? this is very important, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
you said you like to make upgraded thunderhogs late game to keep you fire beast around much longer. this makes me wonder how you make use of the unit. say we see a skull raker, you fight it and it's alone. you kill the unit, do you make the fire best head back to the base, and heal with the thunder hog, or is the thunder hod always hanging about near the fire beast?
another thing that gets me about Ironheade is amassing the army. out of the 3 factions, it seems that Ironheade is the least intimidating of the 3 faction when the army is amassed. what are your thoughts on this? do you usually have your army amassed, or do they tend to be sprawled about? are there ever enough units out at a time to have your army amassed? because this is rarely the case for me, if ever.
other then that.....really great info! it's exactly what I wanted to hear!
Edit: there's something that's been on my mind for a while. when it comes to thunder hog and whether it's healing ability stack...I wanted to test it out. before, me and mickey tested whether the thunder hog healing ability stacked, and according to the tests, it did, but I'm not really convinced, considering we were just messing around with it. I would like to see the effects of the healing is Eddie was hit with an upgraded razor DT, and how he would react to it when there is 1 upgraded thunder hog. then see how he reacts to it with 2, or 3, ect. I highly doubt that it doesn't stack.
blackgenma on
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” - Albert Einstein
Morkai how would you like to help me set up a tournament? Just to make it fun we can try to make it a 2v2 tournament. Is this something you would like to do? I’ve wanted to do something to bring the competition back to the game and I think this would be perfect. Message me on Xbox with your answer.
And as for the PS3 no one plays on that anymore. A lot of people quit till the new patch comes out.
I can get all the concept art by playing practice matches right? I don't even have all the Ironheade art and its gnawing away at my brain.
Yes you can get them in practice matches. You get them by summoning a whole bunch of whatever unit it is. The stage art is from spending a lot of time DT'd with the stage.
Hey blackgenma, the Tour Book specifically states Thunderhogs don't stack. Just a head's up.
I think the tour book is lying. I'm dead serious. it wouldn't make any sense anyway, seeing that tainted coil can create a cumulative heal buff. I know the chances of it are slim, but it's worth testing anyway,
blackgenma on
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” - Albert Einstein
The scream wagon for tainted coil I know stacks. I was playing with a friend took me about a minute to kill him just standing there with the defense buff on.
I think the tour book is lying. I'm dead serious. it wouldn't make any sense anyway, seeing that tainted coil can create a cumulative heal buff. I know the chances of it are slim, but it's worth testing anyway,
We'll get Lemmy and the gang together on Friday and slap the shit out of a Headbanger on Friday and see what happens. I still need to test Light of Dawn on a Screamwagon. I can confirm it doesn't work on the Fire (production) buff.
And in the event I have two Screamwagons, they're better off buffing different things I say.
One of xterm friends. I was in the party when he left to game with you.
gimme a gamertag and I'll add it to the guide OP.
I’ll send you a friends request then I’ll show you how to counter the infinite combo. So that you can destroy who ever apposes you.
Bah, I'll never be as good as them. I just love the genre and want to see it flourish.* But Double Fine Forum is having a discussion about whether or not to use it at all, and after a long talk with blackgenma, I decided I should figure it out and write on it to help out frustrated players.
The thought of noobs slapping around King Brim at close range pleases me.
*I have 10 years history hunting Action/RTS games. Below is from the Overlooked classics thread.
Here's a few, not sure if they all meet the overlooked spec completely, but they are all awesome, non-mainstream games.
Brutal Legend is basically Sacrifice 2. Tim Curry is in both games. Which is good because these are the only RTS games I like and I frantically seek them out. I have a copy of Battlezone, Battlezone 2, and Sacrifice all put away. So I'm keeping BL forever. Plus someone from the Sacrifice team worked on BL.
And while I'm at it, I like Battlezone even better than Sacrifice, because every tank, vehicle, or Giant Robot you build, you could hop in the cockpit, and if you blew up, you eject,and have to jetpack to your base to get another vehicle, or order one of your units to give you their ride, or whip out a sniper rifle, kill an enemy in their cockpit and steal their ride.
Battlezone 1 was awesome, just because it happened in the solar system and every couple of missions were on a different wicked map. You start out on the moon, then you go to Mars, Mercury I think, Titan, Io, Europa etc How AWESOME is that? And the gameplay itself is great. The graphics are tolerable even today, but I wish for example on Io where Jupiter occupies literally half the sky that it was more than just a big picture that doesn't move. Battlezone with today's graphics, wow..
I specifically also remember the advertisements for Battlezone in the magazines over 10 years ago and I thought it sucked bad. The ads compared it too much to the old Battlezone which was just a stupid tank sim, and I had no desire to play a tank sim. There was nothing indicating the awesome story or RTS elements, or the ability to outfit and steal other vehicles.
I then got Sacrifice with my video card and while it looked good for some reason I never quite got into it.
Well how I got into Battlezone was this. I had a gaming magazine that covered all consoles including PC, and they gave Battlezone a 5 star review.
Back then I never played an RTS, and had little grasp on what the article was saying on the gameplay, all I wanted was that delicious sounding Thumper weapon.*
*The Thumper weapon was the coolest thing ever and it still is. It's a seismic wave emitter that caused the entire landscape to kick up like a wave, and caused all kinds of things to happen. It could slap an enemy hovertank high in the air, leave baddies stuck in place bouncing around, or cause enemy structures to take severe damage.
My very first video card upgrade that I did all myself, (a Monster 3dII), came with Incoming, Sin, and Battlezone. I dove right into Battlezone and Thump'd the shit out of everything. It was hilarious and awesome. I took my time in the tutorial, and when in that first mission where you're setting up turrets and scouts around your base, and they're protecting you while you are shooting at baddies, I was hooked eternally.
And it got even better because after you're ultimately overrun, it just hurts so much. I was like "I BUILT THIS AND NOW THE MOON RUSSIANS ARE TEARING IT DOWN!" Then you get to Mars and you start building tanks who can fight just like you.
Later on I was introduced to Starcraft, and I couldn't get into it because I kept comparing it to Battlezone. And the rest is history. From then on I was always on the lookout on games that could match it.
I played the fuck out of Battlezone 2, but the story was horrid. Cool environments though, and the alien faction was badass. At the time, I never got an internet connection working. It gave you the ability to customize units yourself, but I was too young at the time to figure it out. But as long as you planned ahead, you could get the F-keys to order around who you wanted to without customization.
When I first joined the PA forums, I was asking for games like Battlezone, and made a Battlezone tribute thread. People recommended Sacrifice, so I bought that. So I have a copy of BZ1 and 2, and Sacrifice. BZ1 does not work on Vista, but BZ2 and Sacrifice do. I recently added Brutal Legend to my Action/RTS collection.
EDIT - Hoooooly shit I forgot Natural Selection! That one was another amazing example. I love the Marines and only the Marines. It's an absolute joy to either be the commander or a Marine on the ground. I hate being the aliens, but I can appreciate the hive-minded mechanic.
Do people still play that? Or are there bots? I'll play with the bots, I don't give a shit because I love that game so much.
King Brim is a cool guy just has to stop disconnecting. XD be back later going to go on supreme commander 2.
He's a really good player actually, he just gets predictable. But he is a complete cock from what I've seen. He's beaten me just once or twice, but fell apart after the balance patch. He's the only player I've seen not change up strategies due to the balance patch. He hasn't beaten me since. And for three goddamn months he'd pull the plug before matches started with me. He stopped that in March and lost twice to me, he texted me "military student faggot" (my profile says military student.) And he's DCing again now.
Rock Crusher - A Support Vehicle unless double teamed with, My Strategy is usually the same with this thing all the time, UNLESS you want to get fancy and Send it in alone for a diverseion while the rest of your army gets the drop when you're assaulting.
1 - your strategy is the same for it all the time.....but you didn't tell me what your strategy for the unit is! tell me some set ups you like to do regarding the rock crusher. do you rush it out? do you make ASS LOADS of upgraded razor girls and send it in? you know, that kind of stuff.
2- when it comes to teching up and producing units. I would like to hear your opinion on when it is good to make units, or to tech up to teir 2-3 or 4. for instance, when you are able to make fire barons and head splitters, do you usually make some units, and then tech up, or do you just tech up? this is very important, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
3 - you said you like to make upgraded thunderhogs late game to keep you fire beast around much longer. this makes me wonder how you make use of the unit. say we see a skull raker, you fight it and it's alone. you kill the unit, do you make the fire best head back to the base, and heal with the thunder hog, or is the thunder hod always hanging about near the fire beast?
4 - another thing that gets me about Ironheade is amassing the army. out of the 3 factions, it seems that Ironheade is the least intimidating of the 3 faction when the army is amassed. what are your thoughts on this? do you usually have your army amassed, or do they tend to be sprawled about? are there ever enough units out at a time to have your army amassed? because this is rarely the case for me, if ever.
other then that.....really great info! it's exactly what I wanted to hear!
Edit: there's something that's been on my mind for a while. when it comes to thunder hog and whether it's healing ability stack...I wanted to test it out. before, me and mickey tested whether the thunder hog healing ability stacked, and according to the tests, it did, but I'm not really convinced, considering we were just messing around with it. I would like to see the effects of the healing is Eddie was hit with an upgraded razor DT, and how he would react to it when there is 1 upgraded thunder hog. then see how he reacts to it with 2, or 3, ect. I highly doubt that it doesn't stack.
1 - A few setups? alright. I almost never rush to a Rock crusher, it seems to me that if I do that, I'm vulnerable to just about everything and then when my crusher is out against a full army, even with a double team I'm at a huge disadvantage.
I like to use stuff that's ranged, a ranged set up with a rockcrusher allows for projectile fury at a boosted attack rate, I often couple a caravan with a Rock crusher, giving the double team with the RC a chance to take out clumped units, and for my headsplitters to attack every spare unit, I find it's effective against TC, considering the heart cutter will attack the RC while taking fire from the Headsplitters.
Another set up would be with Razor girls and a rock crusher, of course, Usually 3-6 squads with a bassist involved, working very effectively against avatar harassment and Ranged vehicles (except for brood, they're usually massed, and the RC is screwed if it takes too much from broods.)
I use the Rock crusher as more of a support unit than anything, What you build should be based on what they have, since BL has very black and white anti-whatever categories. If they have a bunch of Superior skull rakers, I'd probably make A Rock Crusher For attack boost, Two headsplitters for constant uninterrupted range support, and Four Metal Beasts to not only take the hits, but to deal burn damage, a bassist would be relevant if the rock crusher wasn't being double teamed with already.
When I move it out, I'll command my rock crusher and use follow. sometimes I think I should use something else, like maybe a razor girl and keep at the front while the RC is in the middle of the phalanx, but I haven't tried it. I'd imagine it'd work, anyways, enough speculation.
2- Teching. Right, well, as a rule of thumb, I always at the very least reach tier two. I make my headbangers and hope I can cap some resources, and I go from there. From tier two, whether I make units or not is entirely dependant upon A Prospective resource analysis, Meaning I'll ask Myself: Am I able to cap any more geysers quickly? If the answer is yes, I'll often make head splitters or fire barons while my headbangers are still fighting it out, if the answer is no, I'll tech to tier three and make roadies to take back geysers and hopefully make a comeback.
Techning up to tier three is based on that question, because if you can get a caravan out from tier two, you can usually tech up to tier three at your liesure, granted the caravan is attempting to take back or unlock geysers.
3. I make the thunderhog and upgrade it when I see my metal beasts need healing, I'll rally flag to the beasts and when the bassist gets there the healing starts, if there are no units around you can bet your beasts will make a full recovery as avatars can't do much to them.
4. Amassed, they're pretty pathetic. Yeah. But I took advantage of Tim schafers multiplayers tips: Ironheade is VERY MOBILE. Splitting them up is effective, although against any amassed army they're done for, which is why direct confrontation isn't always useful. The Light of Dawn solo is very useful against doom. I have yet to use it against coil, but I think it gets rid of the healing buff they have... One key is mobility. The fact that you can have some semblance of an army but some roadies stashed away to take them out while your army fights theire.
Posts
I suck at avatar combat still. But Earthshaker really does stop Gravedigger spam. Grr, I hate that.
Skip to 3:00
Maybe they should be in Brutal Legend after all.
To improve the multiplayer, I'd make it so Rally, and the Summon Flag are single-button commands you do during flight, and I'd throw in replay. An easy way to see when you zigged instead of zagged, costing you a match, and an easy way to make AMVs.
I still tell people to google "Penny Arcade Brutal Legend Guide," and I've gotten many thanks. Technically, it still works, but it's linking them to the previous thread. Any know how to make the crawlers go to this version?
we beat them like 2-3 times by the skin of our teeth. one of the times, it was Ironeheade (us) vs Tainted Coil (them) and on the bloody coast. made me feel pro to win in such a lopsided match up against some of the game's best players.
tainted coil is broken on death fjord. tainted coil is broken in general. kicked our asses the last 2 games.
I was using crabbas' account when this happened. mickey's a surprisingly good player at the game. better then me anyway.
the morkai needs to be on when I play, so we can o 2 vs 2 and I can get beast with Ironheade, the most useless faction that is also my favorite in the game.
also I lost to cantido about twice if I recall correctly. makes my heart sad.
That was you both times? Well I still play on Random, and I still can't melee for shit. How is your guide coming along?
Also, I beat Coil with Ironheade on Death's Fijord. Then again, the player was King Brim. :winky:
Oh man, there was another one, which I narrowly one, but it was long, dramatic and exhausting. The thing about Death's Fijord, is that even if you don't have the center, if you take the entire safe side, you're only one geyser down. The timing of how you distract your opponent can steal you the entire center.
I put this video in the OP. It makes me want a Replay mode. It can show you what went wrong, and, as you can see, is good for totally-fuck-off AMVs.
2v2 Coil + Manowar = EPIC!
Won a killer trophy.
Also, I miss most of our PA BL Veterans
Lol, I'll work on being online more, Genma. Lol. Mikey is as good as he is with IH because I taught him a lot of stuff.
He plays coil mostly, though, I can't take credit for that :P
Players like the guide I made, but google is leading them to a locked older thread. There are new pros to be had, believe me.
Oh? New Pros?
Yeah, [something]1991 was one of them I saw today. He doesn't DC but he had 49 wins and 1 loss. He played like he was doing thing since release.
I think one thing that would make the Double Teams better is making every DT handle completely like a new unit, so that A, X, and AX all do something different.
Like the Bouncer, Eddie would sit on the Bouncer's shoulder's instead. A would make the bouncer punch, X would be the dash punch that Mittens does, and AX would be the DT attack we had now.
the guide is coming along S-L-O-W-L-Y.
anyway, it almost time for me to hit up faction specific stuff, so I would like to take this opportunity to ask the local Ironheade expert to give me some advice regarding basic unit usage.
Morkai, since you play ironheade so much, can you tell me how much you use each unit, and how you use them, if at all.
for example, do you make thunder hogs? do you upgrade them? do you make razor girls? do you use them upgraded? do you make upgraded head bangers? just a quick little description based solely on whether they are worth using, because I'm sure everyone knows what each unit does, but when to pull out Ironheade's shitty units is very important, and not so easy.
also, set ups with the roadies and the rock crusher is a must.
as for the double team thing regarding the units preforming new actions.....I feel that is a bit gimmicky. I'd rather have some units be more effective and less broken then anything. an improvement to the bouncer double team would be to throw the bouncer up higher and at a distance, to come down at you like a motor. that way, you can give Ironheade some much needed range. of course, the player should be able to control where he bouncer lands, and see the area of impact through some highlighted Icon of some sort. this should preferably be done before you throw the bouncer, but controlling him while he flies in the air wouldn't be too bad of a a mechanic either.
My initial Ironheade setup is like this. First off if a map starts me off with two booths, I'll make 1 Razorgirl and two Headbanger squads (the fighting hasn't started yet so I make a Thunderhog afterward.) If I only start with one booth, I'll make one of each Tier 1 because those squads become much more precious and Thunderhogs cost 90 rather than 100.
If I feel an Aggrotar coming, I'll make two Razor Girls first instead, and buff them immediately, and they'll swat down anyone feeling frisky.
I got the Double Team idea from Battlezone.
In Battlezone, you build vehicles and ONLY vehicles. You are a weak little pilot who will die in like one hit if you have to eject from whatever hovertank or mech you're in. Each vehicle you build is one you're capable of piloting. So each unit has it's own set of weapons that you or an AI pilot uses. And all your allies are using things that you're capable of using.
So the current Double Team system is a slightly limited version of this mechanic. In a BL Double Team, you get just one attack, but it's one that unit didn't normally have, and it's powerful. Which is awesome. Why not make it three attacks it never had?
EDIT - Brother Kubiak is a good player I've never seen before today.
There are many variations, but this is the best!
I'm watching the Spongebob movie for the first time, and Lemmy recorded a song for it. I didn't see that coming. They enter a bar and I recognize the bass and I'm like "is that?" and then Lemmy starts singing
I see them come, and I see them go
I see big things and big people that nobody knows
I'm talking at pictures and I'm paintin 'em black
I'm telling you, fish-face, you ain't never coming back
You better swim
Baby, you better swim
You better swim like a tigershark
Or I'm gonna do you in
Yeah
BlackGenma something Morkia does when Ironheade is what he calls a caravan works really well and will allow you to grab geysers. It consists of three head splitters. Good for an early game comeback if needed of course. Another thing that works well is setting a flag by a geyser u need make a rodie and then repeat the process for other geysers. But the game winner is the rock crusher if you get that to grind the base the heart cutters do no damage don’t ask me why though. These are all the things I do that morkia taught me.
Oh, well I'll totally add it to the guide if we can play on Friday. Double Fine forums would want that too, they hate it even more than I do... I once got mad at Irish Doctor and ended up feeling like shit afterward. But its something that frustrates a lot of players.
My understanding is AAA(anything), the last hit can be interrupted by mashing A. This is wierd and I did get into a match where the other guy and I were trading three hits over and over. Rolling after the 4th hit is good too. I mean I'm getting a little better at defending myself (I beat blackgenma twice last weekend...)
I've seen a Caravan once and only once. It was a female player, I have no idea who, but it took 20 minutes and I lost.
Headbanger - Basic Melee, Early Game, I make 3 every startup and usually split them among neutral geysers, I never really use them late game.. I use the Double team when melee units are clumped to get free hits off
Razor Girl - Basic Range, Mid to Late Game, I usually use these when I can upgrade them, three of them can take out an avatar if all of them hit, I believe. I also use upgraded girls to stay at my base and stonewall a bleeding death from being dropped there. I double team when I think I need more attack power against a vehicle or something big, NEVER squads of individual units. Also I use it to ward off avatars.
Thunderhog - Healing, Seldom Early, Mostly Late game, I use the Hog when I can upgrade it late game and have it heal up my wounded metal beasts or Razor girls, On The bleeding coast, I usually make one after my headbangers if I'm feeling confident about the geyser conflict, it makes the headbangers go a long way post battle. Double team with it to stun enemies, I wait for the same situation as the headbangers, clumped melee, or I'll lead a charge with a hog and stun units to allow my own to get the drop and attack first.
Fire Baron - Light tank, Early-mid game. These are great against any basic infantry, gravediggers, SK's, even skull rakers provided the enemy won't double team with them, the burn damage is incredible and even better when DT'd with. I use this against Soul Kissers, especially if a battle nun is around, I use it contextually based on the abundance of infantry (or things that could be lit on fire)
Headsplitter - Medium Tank, Mid to Late Game, Probably my favorite unit. I've developed a startegy known as the 'Caravan', Three headsplitters together provide a sort of faux phalanx that really works against most units (Save for heartcutters). The Caravan is hard for an avatar to stop alone because the avatar doesn't phase a headsplitter when attacking. Anvil of Burden for best results. I Double team with these when I need to take down a geyser in a rush (buff them first, of course) or when I need to hit a vehicle (or skull raker) from a distance, since the range is greatly increased and the explosion does additional damage.
Bouncer - Heavy Infantry, Contextual, This unit is very useful in heaps of vehicles. The only problem is it shouldn't be produced when the enemy is on your front lawn. Making a bouncer is a process that requires scouting. I recall one match where I was being rushed by a dirgible and about 8 brood. I had one headsplitter, and I built a bouncer, as he started hitting my stage, the bouncer was already out and ready with another on the way. Double teamed, boom. killed all but one out of range brood. i double team when vehicles are around, but it's not very useful for much else. (Except infantry, bouncer DT's bounce infantry and stun them, allowing for you to DT before they can react against it)
Roadie - Infantry, Mid to late game, My second favorite unit. The Roadie. I can't tell you how many victories I got with these guys when people thought roadies were total crap. I'll make roadies if I'm unsure about my financial situation, unsure about the outcome of an assault I'm about to endure. I like to rally roadies to a place that's out of the way in the map, or a place that enemy units won't walk close to if they're ordered to a geyser or my base, I rally flag in about two to three different places on each stage, and wait for my opponent to leave his base, It's hard to keep your opponent convinced that you don't have roadies, but totally possible. Pick hiding spots. Also, roadies stealthily take down merch booths, if you want to change the game around, rally raodies to enemy merchbooths, they take them down without alerting the enemy, leaving you to cut them off and build your wealth. Also, if you full tier upgrade and have roadies rush their stage, Bring it on Home is a Useful protective blanket for them to attack. Double team is usef
Metal Beast - Infantry, Mid to late game, Really effective against anything that can be burned, burn damage is substantial, I've killed about 900 fans worth of PP's with one beast. they're very fast and very useful. When double teamed with they're amazing due to the forever fire breath and the fact that they're so mobile, under the right circumstances you could take down two or more skull rakers because the beast is so fast the only thing that'll hit it is the Double team of a Raker.
Rock Crusher - A Support Vehicle unless double teamed with, My Strategy is usually the same with this thing all the time, UNLESS you want to get fancy and Send it in alone for a diverseion while the rest of your army gets the drop when you're assaulting.
Are there things I didn't address Genma? I kinda wrote this thing in like 10 minutes, so if you'd like to ask specific questions I can answer them.
Well in the end I got a rockcrusher which he just couldn't manage to destroy and I won. Pretty fun.
Cantido). You want to hold down the B button until they are about to rock kick are hit their fourth button in the combo. Then you go to town on the A button and you done it you just blocked the infinite combo. Bad thing is I Mangus I found a new combo that works really well. You set them on fire and just hit them with lighting repeatedly until dead you can also throw in some hits when needed.
Woo. Yay Proper english!
He brings up an interesting point. When Tim Schafer was saying "don't treat it like an RTS," he should have said. "It's like an RTS only it doesn't fucking SUCK." But I blame EA's anti-marketing for that one.
The lightning and fire works to an extent, if you can get far enough away that you can hold block for a while, you can block anything.
Eddie is so manly, he can block being on fire, being electrocuted, being poisoned, being eaten by rats, and drowning in blood-puke.
PA Forums, we never 4 vs 4 anymore
But that's ok; We'll make it happen.
your strategy is the same for it all the time.....but you didn't tell me what your strategy for the unit is! tell me some set ups you like to do regarding the rock crusher. do you rush it out? do you make ASS LOADS of upgraded razor girls and send it in? you know, that kind of stuff.
when it comes to teching up and producing units. I would like to hear your opinion on when it is good to make units, or to tech up to teir 2-3 or 4. for instance, when you are able to make fire barons and head splitters, do you usually make some units, and then tech up, or do you just tech up? this is very important, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
you said you like to make upgraded thunderhogs late game to keep you fire beast around much longer. this makes me wonder how you make use of the unit. say we see a skull raker, you fight it and it's alone. you kill the unit, do you make the fire best head back to the base, and heal with the thunder hog, or is the thunder hod always hanging about near the fire beast?
another thing that gets me about Ironheade is amassing the army. out of the 3 factions, it seems that Ironheade is the least intimidating of the 3 faction when the army is amassed. what are your thoughts on this? do you usually have your army amassed, or do they tend to be sprawled about? are there ever enough units out at a time to have your army amassed? because this is rarely the case for me, if ever.
other then that.....really great info! it's exactly what I wanted to hear!
Edit: there's something that's been on my mind for a while. when it comes to thunder hog and whether it's healing ability stack...I wanted to test it out. before, me and mickey tested whether the thunder hog healing ability stacked, and according to the tests, it did, but I'm not really convinced, considering we were just messing around with it. I would like to see the effects of the healing is Eddie was hit with an upgraded razor DT, and how he would react to it when there is 1 upgraded thunder hog. then see how he reacts to it with 2, or 3, ect. I highly doubt that it doesn't stack.
It took forever to find games. And the two I played were with the same dude.
Also, playing tainted coil is hard. Only did a few practices, but I just kept panicking and making lots of nuns.
And as for the PS3 no one plays on that anymore. A lot of people quit till the new patch comes out.
Yes you can get them in practice matches. You get them by summoning a whole bunch of whatever unit it is. The stage art is from spending a lot of time DT'd with the stage.
Hey blackgenma, the Tour Book specifically states Thunderhogs don't stack. Just a head's up.
Mangus, myself, OpponentJester and xterm just had some 2 on 2's.
And Cantido I was not invited.
We'll get Lemmy and the gang together on Friday and slap the shit out of a Headbanger on Friday and see what happens. I still need to test Light of Dawn on a Screamwagon. I can confirm it doesn't work on the Fire (production) buff.
And in the event I have two Screamwagons, they're better off buffing different things I say.
time to fall, who art thou?
gimme a gamertag and I'll add it to the guide OP.
I’ll send you a friends request then I’ll show you how to counter the infinite combo. So that you can destroy who ever apposes you.
Black what have you been up to?
Bah, I'll never be as good as them. I just love the genre and want to see it flourish.* But Double Fine Forum is having a discussion about whether or not to use it at all, and after a long talk with blackgenma, I decided I should figure it out and write on it to help out frustrated players.
The thought of noobs slapping around King Brim at close range pleases me.
*I have 10 years history hunting Action/RTS games. Below is from the Overlooked classics thread.
He's a really good player actually, he just gets predictable. But he is a complete cock from what I've seen. He's beaten me just once or twice, but fell apart after the balance patch. He's the only player I've seen not change up strategies due to the balance patch. He hasn't beaten me since. And for three goddamn months he'd pull the plug before matches started with me. He stopped that in March and lost twice to me, he texted me "military student faggot" (my profile says military student.) And he's DCing again now.
1 - A few setups? alright. I almost never rush to a Rock crusher, it seems to me that if I do that, I'm vulnerable to just about everything and then when my crusher is out against a full army, even with a double team I'm at a huge disadvantage.
I like to use stuff that's ranged, a ranged set up with a rockcrusher allows for projectile fury at a boosted attack rate, I often couple a caravan with a Rock crusher, giving the double team with the RC a chance to take out clumped units, and for my headsplitters to attack every spare unit, I find it's effective against TC, considering the heart cutter will attack the RC while taking fire from the Headsplitters.
Another set up would be with Razor girls and a rock crusher, of course, Usually 3-6 squads with a bassist involved, working very effectively against avatar harassment and Ranged vehicles (except for brood, they're usually massed, and the RC is screwed if it takes too much from broods.)
I use the Rock crusher as more of a support unit than anything, What you build should be based on what they have, since BL has very black and white anti-whatever categories. If they have a bunch of Superior skull rakers, I'd probably make A Rock Crusher For attack boost, Two headsplitters for constant uninterrupted range support, and Four Metal Beasts to not only take the hits, but to deal burn damage, a bassist would be relevant if the rock crusher wasn't being double teamed with already.
When I move it out, I'll command my rock crusher and use follow. sometimes I think I should use something else, like maybe a razor girl and keep at the front while the RC is in the middle of the phalanx, but I haven't tried it. I'd imagine it'd work, anyways, enough speculation.
2- Teching. Right, well, as a rule of thumb, I always at the very least reach tier two. I make my headbangers and hope I can cap some resources, and I go from there. From tier two, whether I make units or not is entirely dependant upon A Prospective resource analysis, Meaning I'll ask Myself: Am I able to cap any more geysers quickly? If the answer is yes, I'll often make head splitters or fire barons while my headbangers are still fighting it out, if the answer is no, I'll tech to tier three and make roadies to take back geysers and hopefully make a comeback.
Techning up to tier three is based on that question, because if you can get a caravan out from tier two, you can usually tech up to tier three at your liesure, granted the caravan is attempting to take back or unlock geysers.
3. I make the thunderhog and upgrade it when I see my metal beasts need healing, I'll rally flag to the beasts and when the bassist gets there the healing starts, if there are no units around you can bet your beasts will make a full recovery as avatars can't do much to them.
4. Amassed, they're pretty pathetic. Yeah. But I took advantage of Tim schafers multiplayers tips: Ironheade is VERY MOBILE. Splitting them up is effective, although against any amassed army they're done for, which is why direct confrontation isn't always useful. The Light of Dawn solo is very useful against doom. I have yet to use it against coil, but I think it gets rid of the healing buff they have... One key is mobility. The fact that you can have some semblance of an army but some roadies stashed away to take them out while your army fights theire.
Diversions and ironheade go hand in hand.