Spamming cultists results in Big Shootas against any decent Ork, which means suppression or just focus fire face melting.
I suppose I could try bunching up the cultists so that there are always 2 units together, but the shoota orks are still going to eat away at my req then retreat before I can get in there for some jihad action... hopefully map control will make up for some of that. God help me if he has a Mekboy to do some kiting with a slugga or shoota squad.
Spamming cultists results in Big Shootas against any decent Ork, which means suppression or just focus fire face melting.
I suppose I could try bunching up the cultists so that there are always 2 units together, but the shoota orks are still going to eat away at my req then retreat before I can get in there for some jihad action... hopefully map control will make up for some of that. God help me if he has a Mekboy to do some kiting with a slugga or shoota squad.
Sounds like you don't have enough cultists.
2 for each Slugga/Shoota squad is ideal.
And oh god if he is a Mekboy your Chaos Lord can chase him right into his goddamned base and murder him while laughing at the pitiful turrets.
So....this game worth picking up strictly for the multiplayer?
I havnt played any of the Dawn of War games (or the Warhammer boardgames) but it has my interest. I just know it doesnt involve the traditional base building which I've grown accustomed to with all them Blizzard rts'.
I really hope 2.2 comes out soon so I can stop losing for reasons like "SM player built Assault Terminators" or "Wraithguard were in melee but kept shooting anyway".
You can pretty much win T1 vs Orks just with the Chaos Lord.
Yeah, this. There's really no good reason to lose against orks unless he massively outplayed you.
Sluggas win against culists, in a 1v1.
Two sluggas versus two cultists is massively stacked in in the culists favor and costs 2/3rds the slugga's price. It only gets worse from there.
Big shootas are the only reasonable thing that orks can respond with. Two squads will have some difficulty dealing with even a single CSM or Chaos Lord. If he does that, you can just grab grenades or havoks.
Grenade launchers are a good bet. A cultist squad with launchers is cheaper than a shoota squad with big shootas. If you have any brains and get into cover you will pretty much instantly win in a shoot out. He cannot use cover because grenades are more effective against units in cover. He cannot win out of cover because you're in cover and he's not AOE damage like you. You both have the same health value, after all. People talk about how weak cultists are... they're cheaper than both ork starter units and have the same damn health. You also have more range than him and your anti-melee power does damage and knocks down.
The situation only gets worse as armies begin to scale. Maybe one big shoota squad holds the edge over one grenade squad, assuming the grenade squad is caught out of cover. Two grenade squads will easily crush two big shootas due to their AOE damage, and it keeps going. Grenades do good damage to generators and can be fired from long range. Just use your immortal chaos lord to spot if you feel too exposed, or instantly kill sluggas squads with your doom bolts! You really can't lose there.
Then again, you can't really go wrong with havoks either. Their high suppression will let you suppress the big shootas even at maximum range. Every other unit can do as it pleases then.
If you're having trouble in tier 2 I don't know what more to say. Chaos tier 2 is full of wonderful units whereas orks are pretty much stuck with Werid Boy and Wartrukk against chaos. Deff Dreds are worthless compared to the blood crusher and stikkbombas are worthless in general.
edit: It's funny you mention this because I was contemplating doing a large post about how hopeless tier one is against any competent chaos as an ork. I suppose the game balance differs at different levels of the ladder though.
So....this game worth picking up strictly for the multiplayer?
I havnt played any of the Dawn of War games (or the Warhammer boardgames) but it has my interest. I just know it doesnt involve the traditional base building which I've grown accustomed to with all them Blizzard rts'.
People seem to underestimate worship, like a lot. Double your CSM/Chaos Lords power while having massive HP regen! never see a bloodcrusher die! Take their power, set up a shrine some worship some CSM and a bloodletter, watch as they waste thousands of resources trying to get it back!
People seem to underestimate worship, like a lot. Double your CSM/Chaos Lords power while having massive HP regen! never see a bloodcrusher die! Take their power, set up a shrine some worship some CSM and a bloodletter, watch as they waste thousands of resources trying to get it back!
It depends on the hero though, Khornate worship only gives non demons a +2 speed boost. Then demons get the speed boost, plust health and energy regen.
Tzeentch worship gives the stealth to everyone, then the same bonuses to demons as khornate.
Nurgle gives the regen to everyone, then the extra regen to demons.
People seem to underestimate worship, like a lot. Double your CSM/Chaos Lords power while having massive HP regen! never see a bloodcrusher die! Take their power, set up a shrine some worship some CSM and a bloodletter, watch as they waste thousands of resources trying to get it back!
It depends on the hero though, Khornate worship only gives non demons a +2 speed boost. Then demons get the speed boost, plust health and energy regen.
Tzeentch worship gives the stealth to everyone, then the same bonuses to demons as khornate.
Nurgle gives the regen to everyone, then the extra regen to demons.
People seem to underestimate worship, like a lot. Double your CSM/Chaos Lords power while having massive HP regen! never see a bloodcrusher die! Take their power, set up a shrine some worship some CSM and a bloodletter, watch as they waste thousands of resources trying to get it back!
It depends on the hero though, Khornate worship only gives non demons a +2 speed boost. Then demons get the speed boost, plust health and energy regen.
Tzeentch worship gives the stealth to everyone, then the same bonuses to demons as khornate.
Nurgle gives the regen to everyone, then the extra regen to demons.
Do bloodcrushers count as demons or vehicles?
demons :twisted: and vehicles.
So you could have 1 cultist repair, and the other worship, for super fast healing.
edit: Oh, apparently Tzeentch worship also gives energy regen to regular units as well as the stealth.
People seem to underestimate worship, like a lot. Double your CSM/Chaos Lords power while having massive HP regen! never see a bloodcrusher die! Take their power, set up a shrine some worship some CSM and a bloodletter, watch as they waste thousands of resources trying to get it back!
It depends on the hero though, Khornate worship only gives non demons a +2 speed boost. Then demons get the speed boost, plust health and energy regen.
Tzeentch worship gives the stealth to everyone, then the same bonuses to demons as khornate.
Nurgle gives the regen to everyone, then the extra regen to demons.
Do bloodcrushers count as demons or vehicles?
demons :twisted: and vehicles.
So you could have 1 cultist repair, and the other worship, for super fast healing.
edit: Oh, apparently Tzeentch worship also gives energy regen to regular units as well as the stealth.
I think all worship increases all unit's energy regen, along with the health regen of demons.
People seem to underestimate worship, like a lot. Double your CSM/Chaos Lords power while having massive HP regen! never see a bloodcrusher die! Take their power, set up a shrine some worship some CSM and a bloodletter, watch as they waste thousands of resources trying to get it back!
It depends on the hero though, Khornate worship only gives non demons a +2 speed boost. Then demons get the speed boost, plust health and energy regen.
Tzeentch worship gives the stealth to everyone, then the same bonuses to demons as khornate.
Nurgle gives the regen to everyone, then the extra regen to demons.
Do bloodcrushers count as demons or vehicles?
demons :twisted: and vehicles.
So you could have 1 cultist repair, and the other worship, for super fast healing.
edit: Oh, apparently Tzeentch worship also gives energy regen to regular units as well as the stealth.
I think all worship increases all unit's energy regen, along with the health regen of demons.
Just had a pretty good set of games (i.e. all wins :P) playing Apothecary, ended with a very fun and close (only had 8 or 9 points on our ticker) match on Judgement of Carrion. Got my ass kicked for most of the match, but I delivered a well timed-Drop Pod to stun one Eldar player's Wraithguard so an Allies' Sluggas and Nobs could rush in intacted decimated them, and my Sorcerer ally took advantage of my Librarian's Force Field (that's what it's called, right?) disrupting the other Eldar's Wraithguard to drop an Eympereal Abyss, which destroyed at least 2 whole squads, and brought the 1-2 who escaped to one man.
Kinda curious as to why the last opponent, a FC, didn't bring any assault termies... know he had enough, since he used an orbital at one point... guess I'll have to check the replay.
Also learned from that, though it was probably common knowlege to some, reg. Terminators can stun units with thier melee attack, or at least Wraithguard. Gonna have to remember that for next time.
Yeah, me and Smaug went on a tear tonight as well. Only hit one snag where we got matched up against a team that had trueskill 34/28 compared to our 18/16. Then we got matched up against them twice more in a row for a total of 3 games.
So we went to 3v3 mode and picked up a new pugger for each match, worked fairly well, even though the puggers were atrocious.
Also learned from that, though it was probably common knowlege to some, reg. Terminators can stun units with thier melee attack, or at least Wraithguard. Gonna have to remember that for next time.
If I had to guess they probably just punched and killed the warlock, or a nearby warlock. The death of any warlock or farseer nearby will stun wraith guard. Termies have no innate stunning abilities.
Yeah earlier when I was playing, I killed a farseer near a broup of wraithguard and they all go the stun animation and walked realllly slow.
Thats neat that it applies when you kill the hero farseer. Does it apply to the hero warlock I wonder.
Good games last night. I really think the plague marine is one of the most fun heroes in the game, but alas the weakest of all three chaos heroes. Love using the plague flamer and melting power and anything in cover.
He's only the weakest until wargear. His little DoT and suppression immunity doesn't quite hold a candle to the innate powers of the other two, but his wargear is impressive indeed.
Thats neat that it applies when you kill the hero farseer. Does it apply to the hero warlock I wonder.
Warlock hero counts too. Anything with that little blue aura that pulsates beneath their feet will stun a wraithguard upon death. That's the farseer, warlock commander, warlock from the guardian squad, warlock from the wraith guard squad, and warlocks that comprise the seer council.
Unforunately, they're quite hard to target unless they're commanders/seer council, and those have serious durability.
Make my favourite squad the traitor will you? The one I have several rad pieces of unique gear for? The one I always use and is the most useful of all of them? Jerks!
Why couldn't you have taken Thaddeus or Cyrus or the Librarian instead? But fucking Tarkus? My bro Tarkus? DICK MOVE!
Hardest 3 v 3 for me last night (aside form assault terminator spam) was tzeench marine spam. Its really brutal unless you go bloodcrusher spam, but thats really unfun.
Really like the Plague marines, just wish they did a little more base damage, but their heal/explosion makes them a nightmare for melee orientated armies, especially with a plague marine spraying nearby.
Make my favourite squad the traitor will you? The one I have several rad pieces of unique gear for? The one I always use and is the most useful of all of them? Jerks!
Why couldn't you have taken Thaddeus or Cyrus or the Librarian instead? But fucking Tarkus? My bro Tarkus? DICK MOVE!
Should have made sure someone else had a higher corruption/lower level than Tarkus...
Also learned from that, though it was probably common knowlege to some, reg. Terminators can stun units with thier melee attack, or at least Wraithguard. Gonna have to remember that for next time.
If I had to guess they probably just punched and killed the warlock, or a nearby warlock. The death of any warlock or farseer nearby will stun wraith guard. Termies have no innate stunning abilities.
Possibly, it was Judgement of Carrion, and both the Eldar Players had dark color schemes, which ment you normally found out where they were by the shine off thier armor and the unit icons over thier head.
Make my favourite squad the traitor will you? The one I have several rad pieces of unique gear for? The one I always use and is the most useful of all of them? Jerks!
Why couldn't you have taken Thaddeus or Cyrus or the Librarian instead? But fucking Tarkus? My bro Tarkus? DICK MOVE!
Same damn thing happened to me!
Only it was Thaddeus who was my traitor, I wish it was Tarkus or Avatis. Having stayed away from spoiler sections I didnt know the traitor could be anyone! Although I gotta admit, as upset as I was, I loved it! It was so shocked, he was the last person I suspected.
He also makes the most sense, in DoW1 he was warned that if he kept caring for individuals and trying to save everyone, it would be his end. And it was...
Wishpig on
WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
The closest thing I've read on the lines of a Space Marine falling in love was basically just having a large amount of respect for a female governor because of her strong sense of duty and willingness to do what was best for her people and not necessarily for herself.
From what I have heard they are also chemically castrated - but even if they weren't, their genetic code is so different to a standard human that breeding just isn't possible.
IIRC, the Salamanders have members who are married and still live with the citizenry on Nocturne.
As for why Slaanesh isn't in the game: The obvious reason, at least to me, is that they're saving them for an expansion pack that adds a fourth commander unit to each faction. You could easily add an evil Apothecary-type commander ala Fabius Bile to Chaos, for example, with Noise Marines as T2 and a Keeper of Secrets as T3. A Librarian can be made a hero for Space Marines, as well (which was the obvious choice for the vanilla game, I thought, which is why Apothecary and Techmarine threw me off). Orks could easily add on Nob Bikers as a unit, with some special Biker or Mad Dok for their fourth hero. Eldar should get Harlequins as a hero unit, to make them have a unit similar to the Kommando (goes off alone instead of leading a group of units). Tyranids, eh, dunno, give 'em a Zoanthrope Alpha or whatever.
Darklyre on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Space Marine Bikes would be awesome or typhoons for tier 2. Would be a great "light" vehicle like the bloodcrusher. As for a 4th hero though, a Chaplin would fit nicely into the mix.
Eldar could also go the bike route and get vypers for fast attack, but I think a different aspect squad would be amazing, specifically the ones equiped with melta guns. I think they are called salamanders? Can't remember. For the Hero, a Harlequin would be neat, especially relying more on infiltration etc. They could always go with another Exarch, maybe a striking scorpion exarch.
Orks with a mad doc would be hilarious and very orky, not sure what unit they could add, but sticking with my bike theme, you could slap on a Kult of speed unit.
Tyranids might be able to go with the a Genestealer Magus for their 4th hero. Not sure how that would fit in terms of flavor as the tyranids you fight are presumably part of a hive fleet and not an inflitrated sect. As for another unit for tyranids, not really sure what fits aside from a Broodlord, but those are more commander/hero selections.
Chaos already has a plague marine as a hero, so the twisted apothecary doesn't really fit I don't think. Not really sure what fits here, maybe sometthing like a dameon commander, like a minor daemon prince. As for additional units, noise marines for sure.
EDIT: Spelling
Smaug6 on
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
This is brilliant. I'm actually enjoying Dawn of War II again! HUUZZZZAH!
IIRC, the Salamanders have members who are married and still live with the citizenry on Nocturne.
Ya but the children are adopted.
Yeah, that was mainly in response to the whole "Space Marines are monks and 'what is this thing you call love'" train of thought. The Black Templars would probably kill any of their members who got so much as a hardon, but the Salamanders are actually relatively close to regular humans as compared to most SMs.
Space Marine Bikes would be awesome or typhoons for tier 2. Would be a great "light" vehicle like the bloodcrusher. As for a 4th hero though, a Chaplin would fit nicely into the mix.
Eldar could also go the bike route and get vypers for fast attack, but I think a different aspect squad would be amazing, specifically the ones equiped with melta guns. I think they are called salamanders? Can't remember. For the Hero, a Harlequin would be neat, especially relying more on infiltration etc. They could always go with another Exarch, maybe a striking scorpion exarch.
Orks with a mad doc would be hilarious and very orky, not sure what unit they could add, but sticking with my bike theme, you could slap on a Kult of speed unit.
Tyranids might be able to go with the a Genestealer Magus for their 4th hero. Not sure how that would fit in terms of flavor as the tyranids you fight are presumably part of a hive fleet and not an inflitrated sect. As for another unit for tyranids, not really sure what fits aside from a Broodlord, but those are more commander/hero selections.
Chaos already has a plague marine as a hero, so the twisted apothecary doesn't really fit I don't think. Not really sure what fits here, maybe sometthing like a dameon commander, like a minor daemon prince. As for additional units, noise marines for sure.
EDIT: Spelling
I could totally see a Chaplain with aura-type effects (positive for allies, negative for enemies) working as a SM hero. Throw on, say, SM Bikes as T2 and you've got yourself an x-pack.
The Eldar already have hit-and-run attacks as their "thing," so I'm not sure adding Vypers would add much in the way of variety, though they could fix that by simply making Vypers blindingly fast with a charging stun attack, allowing you to instantly stun a unit at the cost of making your fragile jetbikes stay in one spot after the charge for a short period. That way, the Eldar have a stun unit that would need anti-vehicle weapons to be countered.
Orks with a Mad Dok would be hilarious. Cybork upgrades for any attached squad! Instant limb/brain transplants to heal your squad up at the cost of one unit! Bonesaws in combat! Throw in some Nob Bikers and you're practically WAAAGHing!
Tyranids can't really use a Genestealer Magus as their hero, though it would be an easy choice. If Relic is going anywhere near the fluff, Genestealers get eaten as soon as the Hive Fleet comes down, and a Genestealer can't command other Tyranid units. The Broodlord would be another obvious choice but it'd be hard to see how you could differentiate it from the Hive Tyrant in terms of melee combat capability.
A twisted apothecary could fit, if you do something like damage the attached squad in return for more firepower/melee power, or turning them into walking meatgrinders that die after a set period of time, though that basically turns that unit into Berserkers. A Keeper of Secrets could work as the hero unit, since they're supposed to be less durable than Bloodthirsters, less durable than Great Unclean Ones, and less psyker-y than Lords of Change. They could have passive auras that slow enemy units, or some kind of slow-building corruption ability that forces an enemy unit to fire on each other for 2-3 seconds or so.
A lessor deamon prince of Slaanesh hero with wargears that focus on suppression / forced retreat
Then for new unit you could go with the Raptors for a jump troop, or some possessed space marines, or noise marines that are mobile suppression akin to barbed stranglers. Not to mention chaos terminators or obliterators.
The Slaanesh hero could also have a global like the Apothecary angels invulnerability, where his allied units enjoy the pain so much they just continue fighting without succumbing(dying).
The closest thing I've read on the lines of a Space Marine falling in love was basically just having a large amount of respect for a female governor because of her strong sense of duty and willingness to do what was best for her people and not necessarily for herself.
From what I have heard they are also chemically castrated - but even if they weren't, their genetic code is so different to a standard human that breeding just isn't possible.
IIRC, the Salamanders have members who are married and still live with the citizenry on Nocturne.
As for why Slaanesh isn't in the game: The obvious reason, at least to me, is that they're saving them for an expansion pack that adds a fourth commander unit to each faction. You could easily add an evil Apothecary-type commander ala Fabius Bile to Chaos, for example, with Noise Marines as T2 and a Keeper of Secrets as T3. A Librarian can be made a hero for Space Marines, as well (which was the obvious choice for the vanilla game, I thought, which is why Apothecary and Techmarine threw me off). Orks could easily add on Nob Bikers as a unit, with some special Biker or Mad Dok for their fourth hero. Eldar should get Harlequins as a hero unit, to make them have a unit similar to the Kommando (goes off alone instead of leading a group of units). Tyranids, eh, dunno, give 'em a Zoanthrope Alpha or whatever.
I can't really see them adding in a fourth commander to each faction. At the moment it's hard enough to balance each side with three separate commanders, let alone differentiating them enough against the other commanders for their race (and the other race's commanders as well) whilst still having them fulfil a useful role.
As it is the current update only added one unit to each side, and even those aren't that well balanced at the moment (Wraithguard in particular).
If the next addon pack added new commanders instead of a new faction, people would complain about it not being enough "value for money" as it is. I suppose you could add in new commanders and a new faction but that'd be a lot of work. Instead of adding 4-5 new units alongside the new faction, you're talking about adding in 5 new commanders each with around 8-9 pieces of wargear that you have to try to differentiate from all the other wargear as much as possible, whilst still making it have a significant effect on the proceedings without being granted individually overpowered abilities, and making sure they complement their armies and team mates. It just strikes me as quite a lot of work above and beyond, especially when balance is always tenuous at best after a big new update. Plus any future armies will have to be designed with four commanders in mind instead of three as well.
I can see where you're coming from, I just suspect it would be magnitudes bigger of a problem to balance for unless you dropped adding a faction for the moment. I'm actually really happy with the current model, where you pay for a new faction (and campaign, which was pretty good this time around), and each side gets a new unit or two for free.
I think the current expansion was excellent value for the price. I was just having a little fun with my imagination and how they could expand it.
Really though how many more expansions do you think this game is good for? I would honestly hope for a large amount, but it really depends on the sales numbers plus the ongoing cost for balance and support. Although considering the that the game engine was already in place and presumably design and coding was more efficent at a price point of 40 dollars, the expansion may have been more profitable per copy than the original, leading to a greater incentive to get out more expansion packs.
I hope they plan on having lots of expansions, I dont see myself buying a Dawn of War 3, then needing to wait for all the races to slowly get released again, then balanced again.
Change of plans. We're rolling with Josh Long instead, as people are going to be more interested in multiplayer questions than the singleplayer/Last Stand ones that Croak might answer.
Everyone give Croak a hug anyway, especially for giving the hook ups.
I would like to take the time to post two map imbalances that have yet to be pointed out; I have no idea why whoever designed these maps didn't notice these during playtesting, but yet again the powers that be at relic decided to have tzeentch marines all have weaker version of a plasma gun. That was a wonderful idea right?
The 2v2 map Desert showdown each has two victory points that are awkwardly placed in the sides of the map. The northern point can be covered completely by an artillery unit placed just outside the base; so unless you charge it with a walker-type unit you are not getting close to it. I do not believe you can do the same for the southern most point. So essentially, the players on the top of the map have the disadvantage in trying to hold the victory points. The game I had on here also made me realize that spore mines just don't do enough damage to units in buildings, I got a whole squad up to the building with 2 teams in it and both survived the blast; Our opponents continued to put units in that building and several tests confirmed... I have to sacrifice two disposable units to clear out a single team?
Let's say the 3v3 map, Argent Shelf, has a north-south orientation. The northern most team has the elevated platform for their victory point, one of their power points, and one of their requisition points. The southern most team has a power point, req point, and another power point all in line at the edge of this platform, with their victory point just south of them. Facing these points, are two bunkers that have 360 degree firing arcs, but their backs face the wall of the raised platform. There are no such buildings on the platform facing the northern most points. If 3 competent players wished to dominate that map, they can because they can just baby sit the southern teams points with as many set up teams they can place in and around those bunkers supported by the appropriate units; My case? the only way to flank these buildings is on the north side of the map and the only way to really get there without facing the fire from either of these bunkers is to march your armies past the south victory point and up the ramp to the north platform.
Posts
I suppose I could try bunching up the cultists so that there are always 2 units together, but the shoota orks are still going to eat away at my req then retreat before I can get in there for some jihad action... hopefully map control will make up for some of that. God help me if he has a Mekboy to do some kiting with a slugga or shoota squad.
MWO: Adamski
Sounds like you don't have enough cultists.
2 for each Slugga/Shoota squad is ideal.
And oh god if he is a Mekboy your Chaos Lord can chase him right into his goddamned base and murder him while laughing at the pitiful turrets.
I havnt played any of the Dawn of War games (or the Warhammer boardgames) but it has my interest. I just know it doesnt involve the traditional base building which I've grown accustomed to with all them Blizzard rts'.
Yeah, this. There's really no good reason to lose against orks unless he massively outplayed you.
Sluggas win against culists, in a 1v1.
Two sluggas versus two cultists is massively stacked in in the culists favor and costs 2/3rds the slugga's price. It only gets worse from there.
Big shootas are the only reasonable thing that orks can respond with. Two squads will have some difficulty dealing with even a single CSM or Chaos Lord. If he does that, you can just grab grenades or havoks.
Grenade launchers are a good bet. A cultist squad with launchers is cheaper than a shoota squad with big shootas. If you have any brains and get into cover you will pretty much instantly win in a shoot out. He cannot use cover because grenades are more effective against units in cover. He cannot win out of cover because you're in cover and he's not AOE damage like you. You both have the same health value, after all. People talk about how weak cultists are... they're cheaper than both ork starter units and have the same damn health. You also have more range than him and your anti-melee power does damage and knocks down.
The situation only gets worse as armies begin to scale. Maybe one big shoota squad holds the edge over one grenade squad, assuming the grenade squad is caught out of cover. Two grenade squads will easily crush two big shootas due to their AOE damage, and it keeps going. Grenades do good damage to generators and can be fired from long range. Just use your immortal chaos lord to spot if you feel too exposed, or instantly kill sluggas squads with your doom bolts! You really can't lose there.
Then again, you can't really go wrong with havoks either. Their high suppression will let you suppress the big shootas even at maximum range. Every other unit can do as it pleases then.
If you're having trouble in tier 2 I don't know what more to say. Chaos tier 2 is full of wonderful units whereas orks are pretty much stuck with Werid Boy and Wartrukk against chaos. Deff Dreds are worthless compared to the blood crusher and stikkbombas are worthless in general.
edit: It's funny you mention this because I was contemplating doing a large post about how hopeless tier one is against any competent chaos as an ork. I suppose the game balance differs at different levels of the ladder though.
MWO: Adamski
I've never once touched the single player.
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It depends on the hero though, Khornate worship only gives non demons a +2 speed boost. Then demons get the speed boost, plust health and energy regen.
Tzeentch worship gives the stealth to everyone, then the same bonuses to demons as khornate.
Nurgle gives the regen to everyone, then the extra regen to demons.
MWO: Adamski
Do bloodcrushers count as demons or vehicles?
demons :twisted: and vehicles.
So you could have 1 cultist repair, and the other worship, for super fast healing.
edit: Oh, apparently Tzeentch worship also gives energy regen to regular units as well as the stealth.
MWO: Adamski
I think all worship increases all unit's energy regen, along with the health regen of demons.
nope
MWO: Adamski
Kinda curious as to why the last opponent, a FC, didn't bring any assault termies... know he had enough, since he used an orbital at one point... guess I'll have to check the replay.
Also learned from that, though it was probably common knowlege to some, reg. Terminators can stun units with thier melee attack, or at least Wraithguard. Gonna have to remember that for next time.
So we went to 3v3 mode and picked up a new pugger for each match, worked fairly well, even though the puggers were atrocious.
MWO: Adamski
If I had to guess they probably just punched and killed the warlock, or a nearby warlock. The death of any warlock or farseer nearby will stun wraith guard. Termies have no innate stunning abilities.
Thats neat that it applies when you kill the hero farseer. Does it apply to the hero warlock I wonder.
Good games last night. I really think the plague marine is one of the most fun heroes in the game, but alas the weakest of all three chaos heroes. Love using the plague flamer and melting power and anything in cover.
Warlock hero counts too. Anything with that little blue aura that pulsates beneath their feet will stun a wraithguard upon death. That's the farseer, warlock commander, warlock from the guardian squad, warlock from the wraith guard squad, and warlocks that comprise the seer council.
Unforunately, they're quite hard to target unless they're commanders/seer council, and those have serious durability.
Near end
Why couldn't you have taken Thaddeus or Cyrus or the Librarian instead? But fucking Tarkus? My bro Tarkus? DICK MOVE!
Really like the Plague marines, just wish they did a little more base damage, but their heal/explosion makes them a nightmare for melee orientated armies, especially with a plague marine spraying nearby.
EDIT:
Possibly, it was Judgement of Carrion, and both the Eldar Players had dark color schemes, which ment you normally found out where they were by the shine off thier armor and the unit icons over thier head.
Same damn thing happened to me!
He also makes the most sense, in DoW1 he was warned that if he kept caring for individuals and trying to save everyone, it would be his end. And it was...
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
IIRC, the Salamanders have members who are married and still live with the citizenry on Nocturne.
As for why Slaanesh isn't in the game: The obvious reason, at least to me, is that they're saving them for an expansion pack that adds a fourth commander unit to each faction. You could easily add an evil Apothecary-type commander ala Fabius Bile to Chaos, for example, with Noise Marines as T2 and a Keeper of Secrets as T3. A Librarian can be made a hero for Space Marines, as well (which was the obvious choice for the vanilla game, I thought, which is why Apothecary and Techmarine threw me off). Orks could easily add on Nob Bikers as a unit, with some special Biker or Mad Dok for their fourth hero. Eldar should get Harlequins as a hero unit, to make them have a unit similar to the Kommando (goes off alone instead of leading a group of units). Tyranids, eh, dunno, give 'em a Zoanthrope Alpha or whatever.
Eldar could also go the bike route and get vypers for fast attack, but I think a different aspect squad would be amazing, specifically the ones equiped with melta guns. I think they are called salamanders? Can't remember. For the Hero, a Harlequin would be neat, especially relying more on infiltration etc. They could always go with another Exarch, maybe a striking scorpion exarch.
Orks with a mad doc would be hilarious and very orky, not sure what unit they could add, but sticking with my bike theme, you could slap on a Kult of speed unit.
Tyranids might be able to go with the a Genestealer Magus for their 4th hero. Not sure how that would fit in terms of flavor as the tyranids you fight are presumably part of a hive fleet and not an inflitrated sect. As for another unit for tyranids, not really sure what fits aside from a Broodlord, but those are more commander/hero selections.
Chaos already has a plague marine as a hero, so the twisted apothecary doesn't really fit I don't think. Not really sure what fits here, maybe sometthing like a dameon commander, like a minor daemon prince. As for additional units, noise marines for sure.
EDIT: Spelling
Ya but the children are adopted.
Yeah, that was mainly in response to the whole "Space Marines are monks and 'what is this thing you call love'" train of thought. The Black Templars would probably kill any of their members who got so much as a hardon, but the Salamanders are actually relatively close to regular humans as compared to most SMs.
I could totally see a Chaplain with aura-type effects (positive for allies, negative for enemies) working as a SM hero. Throw on, say, SM Bikes as T2 and you've got yourself an x-pack.
The Eldar already have hit-and-run attacks as their "thing," so I'm not sure adding Vypers would add much in the way of variety, though they could fix that by simply making Vypers blindingly fast with a charging stun attack, allowing you to instantly stun a unit at the cost of making your fragile jetbikes stay in one spot after the charge for a short period. That way, the Eldar have a stun unit that would need anti-vehicle weapons to be countered.
Orks with a Mad Dok would be hilarious. Cybork upgrades for any attached squad! Instant limb/brain transplants to heal your squad up at the cost of one unit! Bonesaws in combat! Throw in some Nob Bikers and you're practically WAAAGHing!
Tyranids can't really use a Genestealer Magus as their hero, though it would be an easy choice. If Relic is going anywhere near the fluff, Genestealers get eaten as soon as the Hive Fleet comes down, and a Genestealer can't command other Tyranid units. The Broodlord would be another obvious choice but it'd be hard to see how you could differentiate it from the Hive Tyrant in terms of melee combat capability.
A twisted apothecary could fit, if you do something like damage the attached squad in return for more firepower/melee power, or turning them into walking meatgrinders that die after a set period of time, though that basically turns that unit into Berserkers. A Keeper of Secrets could work as the hero unit, since they're supposed to be less durable than Bloodthirsters, less durable than Great Unclean Ones, and less psyker-y than Lords of Change. They could have passive auras that slow enemy units, or some kind of slow-building corruption ability that forces an enemy unit to fire on each other for 2-3 seconds or so.
Then for new unit you could go with the Raptors for a jump troop, or some possessed space marines, or noise marines that are mobile suppression akin to barbed stranglers. Not to mention chaos terminators or obliterators.
The Slaanesh hero could also have a global like the Apothecary angels invulnerability, where his allied units enjoy the pain so much they just continue fighting without succumbing(dying).
MWO: Adamski
I can't really see them adding in a fourth commander to each faction. At the moment it's hard enough to balance each side with three separate commanders, let alone differentiating them enough against the other commanders for their race (and the other race's commanders as well) whilst still having them fulfil a useful role.
As it is the current update only added one unit to each side, and even those aren't that well balanced at the moment (Wraithguard in particular).
If the next addon pack added new commanders instead of a new faction, people would complain about it not being enough "value for money" as it is. I suppose you could add in new commanders and a new faction but that'd be a lot of work. Instead of adding 4-5 new units alongside the new faction, you're talking about adding in 5 new commanders each with around 8-9 pieces of wargear that you have to try to differentiate from all the other wargear as much as possible, whilst still making it have a significant effect on the proceedings without being granted individually overpowered abilities, and making sure they complement their armies and team mates. It just strikes me as quite a lot of work above and beyond, especially when balance is always tenuous at best after a big new update. Plus any future armies will have to be designed with four commanders in mind instead of three as well.
I can see where you're coming from, I just suspect it would be magnitudes bigger of a problem to balance for unless you dropped adding a faction for the moment. I'm actually really happy with the current model, where you pay for a new faction (and campaign, which was pretty good this time around), and each side gets a new unit or two for free.
Really though how many more expansions do you think this game is good for? I would honestly hope for a large amount, but it really depends on the sales numbers plus the ongoing cost for balance and support. Although considering the that the game engine was already in place and presumably design and coding was more efficent at a price point of 40 dollars, the expansion may have been more profitable per copy than the original, leading to a greater incentive to get out more expansion packs.
MWO: Adamski
Everyone give Croak a hug anyway, especially for giving the hook ups.
Speaking of Croak... where is our patch?
The 2v2 map Desert showdown each has two victory points that are awkwardly placed in the sides of the map. The northern point can be covered completely by an artillery unit placed just outside the base; so unless you charge it with a walker-type unit you are not getting close to it. I do not believe you can do the same for the southern most point. So essentially, the players on the top of the map have the disadvantage in trying to hold the victory points. The game I had on here also made me realize that spore mines just don't do enough damage to units in buildings, I got a whole squad up to the building with 2 teams in it and both survived the blast; Our opponents continued to put units in that building and several tests confirmed... I have to sacrifice two disposable units to clear out a single team?
Let's say the 3v3 map, Argent Shelf, has a north-south orientation. The northern most team has the elevated platform for their victory point, one of their power points, and one of their requisition points. The southern most team has a power point, req point, and another power point all in line at the edge of this platform, with their victory point just south of them. Facing these points, are two bunkers that have 360 degree firing arcs, but their backs face the wall of the raised platform. There are no such buildings on the platform facing the northern most points. If 3 competent players wished to dominate that map, they can because they can just baby sit the southern teams points with as many set up teams they can place in and around those bunkers supported by the appropriate units; My case? the only way to flank these buildings is on the north side of the map and the only way to really get there without facing the fire from either of these bunkers is to march your armies past the south victory point and up the ramp to the north platform.
Thoughts comments?