Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Hopefully we get a purely Ordo Hereticus army.
More importantly, I don't want to see any Grey Knights. If there is any Grey Knights, they should be campaign only and so freaking powerful that lesser Daemons just dissipates into the warp instantly.
Most likely it will be an npc faction hunting the Space Marines deemed heretics in the canon ending of Chaos Rising. After all, they ruled out the purely good ending by having Martellus in Retribution.
Most likely it will be an npc faction hunting the Space Marines deemed heretics in the canon ending of Chaos Rising. After all, they ruled out the purely good ending by having Martellus in Retribution.
Not exactly. Despite common belief, it's actually possible to get the Full Purity ending, and have someone other than Martellus as the traitor. This seems the most canonical case.
Most likely it will be an npc faction hunting the Space Marines deemed heretics in the canon ending of Chaos Rising. After all, they ruled out the purely good ending by having Martellus in Retribution.
Not exactly. Despite common belief, it's actually possible to get the Full Purity ending, and have someone other than Martellus as the traitor. This seems the most canonical case.
If it was the full purity ending, then it's likely the librarian. Relic seems to hate the librarians.
Any word on how the matchmaking will work this time around? I mean anything would be an improvement from the current setup - getting stomped by teams of TS30+ when you're with randoms with TS10 or so simply isn't fun.
No word yet, we just know it's going to be Steamworks. They're going to be having a beta before release in order to hammer out bugs and issues, and just generally stress test the system. That's supposed to be coming "in the new year".
No word yet, we just know it's going to be Steamworks. They're going to be having a beta before release in order to hammer out bugs and issues, and just generally stress test the system. That's supposed to be coming "in the new year".
To date I've had no experience with steamworks as a matchmaking service, but it was used for L4D wasn't it? Any idea how that played out? I can only hope that the response from relic this time is more than simply making it more difficult to find out that the matchmaking is broken before the game starts. If they showed the TS rating of your randomly chosen allies before the game started, most games wouldn't start after all. I do love this game, but playing it online is like pulling teeth.
Steamworks didn't (and possibly, doesn't) do skill based matchmaking by default, which is why Relic initially went with GFWL. GFWL had TrueSkill matchmaking.
Left 4 Dead's matchmaking is just about matching people up to minimise differences in ping, and IIRC, matching groups together with other groups.
Supreme Commander 2 might be a bit better to look at. It didn't initially launch with skill based matchmaking, but Gas Powered Games actually patched in their own skill based matchmaking system for 1v1 games. Was actually an interesting system in its own right. Every player starts off with (I think) 1500 points, and this was what the matchmaking was based around (similar to Street Fighter 4). As you play games the value goes up and down depending on how big a point difference there was between you and your opponent. Defeating guys who had far fewer points than you didn't gain you much, defeating people who were way above you netted you more. Likewise losing to someone clearly out of your league didn't cause you to lose many points, but losing to someone way below you would lose you more.
Where it actually got interesting was that at any point you could issue a challenge to your opponent to increase the stakes, effectively increasing the value of the game. If they accepted then the points changes would be doubled. After that the person who was challenged could, at any time, offer to "up" the stakes, multiplying the point value of the match even more up to a set limit. It was a pretty cool system.
In any case, that was a system that GPG came up with and implemented themselves. I've heard mention from someone else that because of the way Steamworks works (or worked), GPG weren't able to do the same skill based matchmaking for 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 matches. Don't know whether that's still the case.
As far as I'm aware, Steamworks doesn't have a default system for skills based matchmaking. But one can be implemented directly by the dev (I'm guessing it simply wasn't an option before with Steamworks when they made the decision to go with GFWL), which is presumably what Relic are going to be doing.
No real way of knowing how it'll turn out until we see it in the beta.
How difficult is this game? I am not a huge rts fan and haven't really spent a huge amount of time on an RTS game since Warcraft 2. From the video I have seen it looks like a fun title.
Is it accessible for someone who is not well versed with RTS games?
How difficult is this game? I am not a huge rts fan and haven't really spent a huge amount of time on an RTS game since Warcraft 2. From the video I have seen it looks like a fun title.
Is it accessible for someone who is not well versed with RTS games?
Well there's different difficulty levels, so that's a help.
Really, the game plays a little more like an Action RPG in some ways than a straight up RTS, at least in the singleplayer. You've got 4 squads to deal with on almost any given mission, each with varying abilities that you use.
I'd advise you to play it co-op with a friend if you can (since it's most fun that way, and also splits the squads between you), and if you're finding it too easy, go for a higher difficulty.
Other than that, I can't really say how accessible you might find it.
In other news: Noise Marines. Well at least some people can stop their whining now. :P
EDIT: Was that Gabriel Angelos speaking at the end?
How difficult is this game? I am not a huge rts fan and haven't really spent a huge amount of time on an RTS game since Warcraft 2. From the video I have seen it looks like a fun title.
Is it accessible for someone who is not well versed with RTS games?
Depends on what parts you have issues with in terms of RTS games. For example, they've essentially removed base building but have focused the game a lot more on unit management.
However, the Single Player is pretty accessible and Last Stand basically gives you one versatile unit to control while holding out against waves of enemies. So even if the basic multiplayer is difficult for you to get into, the game still has some options.
How difficult is this game? I am not a huge rts fan and haven't really spent a huge amount of time on an RTS game since Warcraft 2. From the video I have seen it looks like a fun title.
Is it accessible for someone who is not well versed with RTS games?
Depends on what parts you have issues with in terms of RTS games. For example, they've essentially removed base building but have focused the game a lot more on unit management.
However, the Single Player is pretty accessible and Last Stand basically gives you one versatile unit to control while holding out against waves of enemies. So even if the basic multiplayer is difficult for you to get into, the game still has some options.
Yeah I forgot about Last Stand. Even if you're not into competitive multiplayer, that's relatively accessible since you're only controlling one unit as part of a team of three. It is pretty hard though, but you're basically meant level up and gain new wargear to try in different combinations.
Just a note, the trailer is a showcase for BOTH the Chaos and the Space Marine campaign.
In regards to the Noise Marines, considering what equipment they have access to in Tabletop, and what we see in the trailer there... it seems very likely that they could potentially be a T1 "flamer" unit equivalent, damaging enemies behind cover, and those in buildings, and (importantly) quickly burning down generator farms.
Following on with this idea, in T2 the unit could gain access to weapons/upgrades that turn it into a artillery unit, or a unit that buffs allies and debuffs enemies in the proximity.
The Flamer and Artillery possibilities are both roles that are currently notably missing from the Chaos arsenal, so it would be quite nice to see one unit that addresses both of them, and scaling well as a result.
...I wonder if one of the Noise Marine unit responses is "I DO COCAINE!"
Kharrak on
0
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Those Noise marines better be strumming fucking electric guitars!!!!!
For those interested, a little present from TASK3R, over on the Gamereplay forums:
Now that Noise Marines were revealed, I'll just leave this here:
Sonic blasters
- Disable enemy ranged weapons and abilities
- Deal good damage to building light
Blastmaster
- Fills Chaos artillery hole
- Knocks over all infantry along the projectile path
Merry Christmas DOW2 community.
So, Chaos will indeed finally have a genbashing unit, and a artillery unit.
Above and beyond that, though, the ability to neuter ranged infantry could shake things up by itself. Suddenly Shoota Boy squads with Big Shootas can be completely neutralized.
For those interested, a little present from TASK3R, over on the Gamereplay forums:
Now that Noise Marines were revealed, I'll just leave this here:
Sonic blasters
- Disable enemy ranged weapons and abilities
- Deal good damage to building light
Blastmaster
- Fills Chaos artillery hole
- Knocks over all infantry along the projectile path
Merry Christmas DOW2 community.
So, Chaos will indeed finally have a genbashing unit, and a artillery unit.
Above and beyond that, though, the ability to neuter ranged infantry could shake things up by itself. Suddenly Shoota Boy squads with Big Shootas can be completely neutralized.
Yeah but with their Heavy armour, ranged infantry was rarely an issue for Chaos (or Space Marines). At least in my experience.
Unless something has drastically changed, shoota boyz counter absolutely nothing in Chaos except heretics, and even then if they have grenade launchers and green cover it's pretty much a toss up.
I've been out of the loop for a while though. I suppose guardians are sort of scary for Chaos and Tacticals still are tricky.
Sonic Blasters sound like a better version of a Ranger squad. A unique way to deal with a set up team (disable their weapons), that also holds the edge in any ranged combat.
I suppose they're looking at this as a way to do a jump troop (which chaos has lacked in tier 1). You could interpret a jump attack as simply a way to disable a ranged squad quickly from a range. This fulfills the same tactical role with a semi-unique spin and a little genbashing added on. Sounds nice and overpowered. Should fit in well with chaos...
As for a plasma cannon that knocks back everything in it's path... why does it always feel like chaos gets simply better versions of units?
Unless something has drastically changed, shoota boyz counter absolutely nothing in Chaos except heretics, and even then if they have grenade launchers and green cover it's pretty much a toss up.
I've been out of the loop for a while though. I suppose guardians are sort of scary for Chaos and Tacticals still are tricky.
Sonic Blasters sound like a better version of a Ranger squad. A unique way to deal with a set up team (disable their weapons), that also holds the edge in any ranged combat.
I suppose they're looking at this as a way to do a jump troop (which chaos has lacked in tier 1). You could interpret a jump attack as simply a way to disable a ranged squad quickly from a range. This fulfills the same tactical role with a semi-unique spin and a little genbashing added on. Sounds nice and overpowered. Should fit in well with chaos...
As for a plasma cannon that knocks back everything in it's path... why does it always feel like chaos gets simply better versions of units?
I'm no strategic expert, but without the exact data it's hard to really say these are "simply better." For one, we don't know how Noise Marines compare to jump troops, particularly since one of the advantages Jump Troops get is greater mobility. Additionally, without the Blastmaster's stats it's difficult to call it a better Plasma Cannon. Particularly since Chaos does not have anything comparable to the Librarian with Veil of Time.
Unless something has drastically changed, shoota boyz counter absolutely nothing in Chaos except heretics, and even then if they have grenade launchers and green cover it's pretty much a toss up.
I've been out of the loop for a while though. I suppose guardians are sort of scary for Chaos and Tacticals still are tricky.
Sonic Blasters sound like a better version of a Ranger squad. A unique way to deal with a set up team (disable their weapons), that also holds the edge in any ranged combat.
I suppose they're looking at this as a way to do a jump troop (which chaos has lacked in tier 1). You could interpret a jump attack as simply a way to disable a ranged squad quickly from a range. This fulfills the same tactical role with a semi-unique spin and a little genbashing added on. Sounds nice and overpowered. Should fit in well with chaos...
As for a plasma cannon that knocks back everything in it's path... why does it always feel like chaos gets simply better versions of units?
Yea, a few patches ago people suddenly realized that shootas upgraded with big shootas were REALLY good for their cost, so most people use those now.
As for the noise marines, I excited to use them as a chaos player, but I do wonder where I'll fit them in since most of the time 2x CSM 2x heretics covers all bases pretty well.
And the best part of the upgraded big shootas was they became even more deadly in the hands of a player with good micro, what with their instant suppression ability that wasnt effected by cover / shields / etc. And having 100% accuracy on the move, so you couldnt kite them.
They did slightly nerf the DPS on the big shoota upgrade and spread it over to the Shoota Knob, but I havent played much since that patch.
Yeah I'm not sure we can really say how OP Noise Marines are going to be until we see how they're implemented.
I mean, if they're short ranged like flamethrowers, that pretty much negates them being used against suppression teams in that way. We also don't know how much they're going to cost.
Of course, new units and races are typically OP by default whenever a new expansion comes along. We have no idea how Inquisition are going to fare, but they're pretty likely to be seriously OP on release. But then that's what the beta is for.
So looking forward to this expansion. Without GFWL I might actually be able to play multiplayer
I probably should pick up Chaos Rising at some stage, I haven't bought it yet because I'm still annoyed at the higher price in New Zealand and Australia (maybe other countries as well) and every time steam has it on sale I don't have enough money to spare. I hope one of the days in this Christmas sale has it discounted.
Renegade Wolf on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Of course, new units and races are typically OP by default whenever a new expansion comes along. We have no idea how Inquisition are going to fare, but they're pretty likely to be seriously OP on release. But then that's what the beta is for.
That's not a nice thing to call the game on release
if it is even possible to kill new units with bullets I consider that pretty balanced by Relic's standards.
In truth, I think Relic gets a lot of unfair flack with regards to balance. A game like DoW is never really going to be completely balanced, owing simply to the sheer number of races, commanders and other combinations involved. For all that, they do still manage to make the game relatively balanced, and when there's an issue in the wild, they fix it. Granted it can take a while, but a lot of that's down to GFWL.
I mean comparing to Starcraft 2, Blizzard threw an absolutely ridiculous amount of resources at it and gave it one of the longest non-MMO beta's ever, all to try and balance it. On release, it still had some bugs and definitely had balance issues. It's going to see patching for years to come, especially with the next iterations they're going to be releasing with new units.
Given everything they did and they still couldn't balance it completely before release, I'm willing to cut Relic some slack on a game like DoW. It's got much more to balance, and Relic don't have nearly the kind of resources that a company like Blizzard does. Even with that, they've still given DoW2 some pretty awesome support over the past couple of years, not just with constant patching over the years, but even new game modes and maps, free.
In regards to the fact that Shootas countered Heretics, and only heretics, this is somewhat accurate. However, due to the lack of a dedicated genbashing unit, or a dedicated artillery unit, many Chaos players had to rely on building quite a few Heretics. Though I'm still rather newb with Chaos, I have repeatedly seen it stated on forums that Chaos players need to spam Heretics to remain competitive in the higher ranks. Of course, I fully admit that, just because it's written on the internet, doesn't mean it's true :P
Also, a bit of a clarification. TASK3R specified that Sound Marines only disable abilities that are ranged (such as grenade throw, Shotgun Blast, and so on), not all abilities.
Which is good, because the other DoW2 communities were going apeshit over the fact that Sound Marines could shut heroes down (no teleport, no heal, no abilities whatsoever) :P
Posts
More importantly, I don't want to see any Grey Knights. If there is any Grey Knights, they should be campaign only and so freaking powerful that lesser Daemons just dissipates into the warp instantly.
Oh, and the pimp chair better be in game:
I kinda liked the DoW2 Commander (We look alike, sans the 8 foot tall powerarmor). But the frosted tips stuff was definitely too much.
Not exactly. Despite common belief, it's actually possible to get the Full Purity ending, and have someone other than Martellus as the traitor. This seems the most canonical case.
If it was the full purity ending, then it's likely the librarian. Relic seems to hate the librarians.
Such a good setup, but I'll leave it alone and keep my last shreds of dignity.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-15-dowii-retribution-beta-announced
Have you got the relevant ports forwarded?
To date I've had no experience with steamworks as a matchmaking service, but it was used for L4D wasn't it? Any idea how that played out? I can only hope that the response from relic this time is more than simply making it more difficult to find out that the matchmaking is broken before the game starts. If they showed the TS rating of your randomly chosen allies before the game started, most games wouldn't start after all. I do love this game, but playing it online is like pulling teeth.
Left 4 Dead's matchmaking is just about matching people up to minimise differences in ping, and IIRC, matching groups together with other groups.
Supreme Commander 2 might be a bit better to look at. It didn't initially launch with skill based matchmaking, but Gas Powered Games actually patched in their own skill based matchmaking system for 1v1 games. Was actually an interesting system in its own right. Every player starts off with (I think) 1500 points, and this was what the matchmaking was based around (similar to Street Fighter 4). As you play games the value goes up and down depending on how big a point difference there was between you and your opponent. Defeating guys who had far fewer points than you didn't gain you much, defeating people who were way above you netted you more. Likewise losing to someone clearly out of your league didn't cause you to lose many points, but losing to someone way below you would lose you more.
Where it actually got interesting was that at any point you could issue a challenge to your opponent to increase the stakes, effectively increasing the value of the game. If they accepted then the points changes would be doubled. After that the person who was challenged could, at any time, offer to "up" the stakes, multiplying the point value of the match even more up to a set limit. It was a pretty cool system.
In any case, that was a system that GPG came up with and implemented themselves. I've heard mention from someone else that because of the way Steamworks works (or worked), GPG weren't able to do the same skill based matchmaking for 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 matches. Don't know whether that's still the case.
As far as I'm aware, Steamworks doesn't have a default system for skills based matchmaking. But one can be implemented directly by the dev (I'm guessing it simply wasn't an option before with Steamworks when they made the decision to go with GFWL), which is presumably what Relic are going to be doing.
No real way of knowing how it'll turn out until we see it in the beta.
Seems to show bits of the Chaos Campaign, which appears to have Eliphas as the commander. It also shows off Noise Marines.
Is it accessible for someone who is not well versed with RTS games?
Fuck yes Noise Marines
Well there's different difficulty levels, so that's a help.
Really, the game plays a little more like an Action RPG in some ways than a straight up RTS, at least in the singleplayer. You've got 4 squads to deal with on almost any given mission, each with varying abilities that you use.
I'd advise you to play it co-op with a friend if you can (since it's most fun that way, and also splits the squads between you), and if you're finding it too easy, go for a higher difficulty.
Other than that, I can't really say how accessible you might find it.
In other news: Noise Marines. Well at least some people can stop their whining now. :P
EDIT: Was that Gabriel Angelos speaking at the end?
Depends on what parts you have issues with in terms of RTS games. For example, they've essentially removed base building but have focused the game a lot more on unit management.
However, the Single Player is pretty accessible and Last Stand basically gives you one versatile unit to control while holding out against waves of enemies. So even if the basic multiplayer is difficult for you to get into, the game still has some options.
Yeah I forgot about Last Stand. Even if you're not into competitive multiplayer, that's relatively accessible since you're only controlling one unit as part of a team of three. It is pretty hard though, but you're basically meant level up and gain new wargear to try in different combinations.
In regards to the Noise Marines, considering what equipment they have access to in Tabletop, and what we see in the trailer there... it seems very likely that they could potentially be a T1 "flamer" unit equivalent, damaging enemies behind cover, and those in buildings, and (importantly) quickly burning down generator farms.
Following on with this idea, in T2 the unit could gain access to weapons/upgrades that turn it into a artillery unit, or a unit that buffs allies and debuffs enemies in the proximity.
The Flamer and Artillery possibilities are both roles that are currently notably missing from the Chaos arsenal, so it would be quite nice to see one unit that addresses both of them, and scaling well as a result.
...I wonder if one of the Noise Marine unit responses is "I DO COCAINE!"
So, Chaos will indeed finally have a genbashing unit, and a artillery unit.
Above and beyond that, though, the ability to neuter ranged infantry could shake things up by itself. Suddenly Shoota Boy squads with Big Shootas can be completely neutralized.
Yeah but with their Heavy armour, ranged infantry was rarely an issue for Chaos (or Space Marines). At least in my experience.
Of course, with the inclusion of Noise Marines, Heretics will be less of a necessity. :P
Unless something has drastically changed, shoota boyz counter absolutely nothing in Chaos except heretics, and even then if they have grenade launchers and green cover it's pretty much a toss up.
I've been out of the loop for a while though. I suppose guardians are sort of scary for Chaos and Tacticals still are tricky.
Sonic Blasters sound like a better version of a Ranger squad. A unique way to deal with a set up team (disable their weapons), that also holds the edge in any ranged combat.
I suppose they're looking at this as a way to do a jump troop (which chaos has lacked in tier 1). You could interpret a jump attack as simply a way to disable a ranged squad quickly from a range. This fulfills the same tactical role with a semi-unique spin and a little genbashing added on. Sounds nice and overpowered. Should fit in well with chaos...
As for a plasma cannon that knocks back everything in it's path... why does it always feel like chaos gets simply better versions of units?
I'm no strategic expert, but without the exact data it's hard to really say these are "simply better." For one, we don't know how Noise Marines compare to jump troops, particularly since one of the advantages Jump Troops get is greater mobility. Additionally, without the Blastmaster's stats it's difficult to call it a better Plasma Cannon. Particularly since Chaos does not have anything comparable to the Librarian with Veil of Time.
Yea, a few patches ago people suddenly realized that shootas upgraded with big shootas were REALLY good for their cost, so most people use those now.
As for the noise marines, I excited to use them as a chaos player, but I do wonder where I'll fit them in since most of the time 2x CSM 2x heretics covers all bases pretty well.
They did slightly nerf the DPS on the big shoota upgrade and spread it over to the Shoota Knob, but I havent played much since that patch.
MWO: Adamski
Honestly do we really need another variety of psychotic god emperor worshippers?
I was really banking on IG. Or dark eldar, though I wasn't expecting them to get in.
I'm getting sorely tempted to play DOW1.
I never liked the obsession with humans in 40K either. Then again that's towards all human factions; I want more aliens damnit.
Steam Profile
Oh well... hopefully at the very least we won't see too much of the Grey Knights side of the inquisition... this game has enough marines.
I mean, if they're short ranged like flamethrowers, that pretty much negates them being used against suppression teams in that way. We also don't know how much they're going to cost.
Of course, new units and races are typically OP by default whenever a new expansion comes along. We have no idea how Inquisition are going to fare, but they're pretty likely to be seriously OP on release. But then that's what the beta is for.
https://medium.com/@alascii
I probably should pick up Chaos Rising at some stage, I haven't bought it yet because I'm still annoyed at the higher price in New Zealand and Australia (maybe other countries as well) and every time steam has it on sale I don't have enough money to spare. I hope one of the days in this Christmas sale has it discounted.
That's not a nice thing to call the game on release
In truth, I think Relic gets a lot of unfair flack with regards to balance. A game like DoW is never really going to be completely balanced, owing simply to the sheer number of races, commanders and other combinations involved. For all that, they do still manage to make the game relatively balanced, and when there's an issue in the wild, they fix it. Granted it can take a while, but a lot of that's down to GFWL.
I mean comparing to Starcraft 2, Blizzard threw an absolutely ridiculous amount of resources at it and gave it one of the longest non-MMO beta's ever, all to try and balance it. On release, it still had some bugs and definitely had balance issues. It's going to see patching for years to come, especially with the next iterations they're going to be releasing with new units.
Given everything they did and they still couldn't balance it completely before release, I'm willing to cut Relic some slack on a game like DoW. It's got much more to balance, and Relic don't have nearly the kind of resources that a company like Blizzard does. Even with that, they've still given DoW2 some pretty awesome support over the past couple of years, not just with constant patching over the years, but even new game modes and maps, free.
Also, a bit of a clarification. TASK3R specified that Sound Marines only disable abilities that are ranged (such as grenade throw, Shotgun Blast, and so on), not all abilities.
Which is good, because the other DoW2 communities were going apeshit over the fact that Sound Marines could shut heroes down (no teleport, no heal, no abilities whatsoever) :P