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Thinking of working on a Project Car
gearn
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So I've always wanted to have a project car to work on over time, and now I might have a good opportunity to start this hobby. My friend totaled his 2006 BMW M3 with about 50,000 miles on it and is now willing to sell it for cheap. Apparently, he slipped off an entrance ramp and rolled down down a hill. The car however is not totally wrecked, the interior looks perfect, and the engine bay looks entirely intact, in fact, it seems like most of the damage occurred to the body panels. Most of the panels are pretty banged up, the mirrors are ripped off, etc. The only glass that was damaged was a spot on the front windshield where the car must have made some kind of impact with something.
The biggest problems from what I can see would be that the frame for the roof may have dented inward from the roll in one spot (can't really tell though without taking off body panels) and a backwheel completely snapped off, damaging an axle. Suspension is probably also messed up. Only one airbag was deployed, on the driver side. As far as I can tell though, the engine and electronics and all that stuff still works (radiator has to be replaced though). Apparently the car rolled over twice before coming to a stop with the wheels down.
Now the question is, would this be a good car to work on for someone who has never done something like this? This would be a long term project and I don't plan on ever really selling this car. I really just want to do it for fun and to learn about cars. I figure salvaging what was once a good car that is slightly damage is probably more of what I'm looking for than just buying a crap used car for the sake of dropping a bunch of mods on it to make it slightly better.
But what kind of skills and tools do I need? General mechanics knowledge? A degree in mechanical engineering? Are there books or resources I can learn from? And what kind of tools do I need? I have a garage to store the car, but I would obviously need to work on the underside of the car. The car also can't really move well because one wheel broke off, I'll imagine I'll need some kind of small trailer?
Or should I just give up on this shit because it's totally impossible for one man
and I already know it's going to cost money. The cosmetic stuff is probably going to be expensive to replace so many panels but I'm gonna do that last anyway if the car actually works again, so I'm focusing mostly on the mechanical. I hope to paint that shit myself in whatever color I like.
The biggest problems from what I can see would be that the frame for the roof may have dented inward from the roll in one spot (can't really tell though without taking off body panels) and a backwheel completely snapped off, damaging an axle. Suspension is probably also messed up. Only one airbag was deployed, on the driver side. As far as I can tell though, the engine and electronics and all that stuff still works (radiator has to be replaced though). Apparently the car rolled over twice before coming to a stop with the wheels down.
Now the question is, would this be a good car to work on for someone who has never done something like this? This would be a long term project and I don't plan on ever really selling this car. I really just want to do it for fun and to learn about cars. I figure salvaging what was once a good car that is slightly damage is probably more of what I'm looking for than just buying a crap used car for the sake of dropping a bunch of mods on it to make it slightly better.
But what kind of skills and tools do I need? General mechanics knowledge? A degree in mechanical engineering? Are there books or resources I can learn from? And what kind of tools do I need? I have a garage to store the car, but I would obviously need to work on the underside of the car. The car also can't really move well because one wheel broke off, I'll imagine I'll need some kind of small trailer?
Or should I just give up on this shit because it's totally impossible for one man
and I already know it's going to cost money. The cosmetic stuff is probably going to be expensive to replace so many panels but I'm gonna do that last anyway if the car actually works again, so I'm focusing mostly on the mechanical. I hope to paint that shit myself in whatever color I like.
gearn on
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However, a BMW will have many hard to find parts as it ages so I suggest you search around your area for a place to acquire said parts. It never hurts to have a guy who can get you stuff locally, because you'll need stuff at some point and getting things shipped around just adds more time and money into the project.
A technical degree may help, but is certainly not necessary for you to enjoy learning about and fixing a car. I know there are quite a few M3 websites about people who do their own work and keep their cars up, so if your GoogleFu is strong you could probably pickup a bit from there once you've found them. A site like that would probably prove more valuable than any degree, unless of course you designed the damn thing in the first place.
I know a BMW certified mechanic, so I'll ask them about your particular car and just the general concept of your restoration goal.
Good luck.
You don't want that.
And all of this is assuming there isn't significant frame damage.
If you were to do this, you may have difficulty getting insurance for it. Many insurers hesitate to insure salvage titled vehicles.
Now depending on HOW cheap he's willing to part with it, it may be worth while buying it for the interior and drivetrain and swapping them into a good shell from another 3 series. It wouldn't be super difficult to swap all of that into a 325i and you'll probably be able to do that for FAR cheaper than repairing all the damage to the m3.
My suggestion would be to find something a little older for a first project car.
Now, you may not be interested in motorcycles in which case you can forget the rest of this. I had the same desire to gain some experience working on vehicles. I also had a desire to ride a motorcycle so I picked up an old bike that runs but has a lot of things that need attention. I am fixing it over time and it is very fulfilling.
Well, I was about to say exactly this so I figured I'd just quote away and then add my two cents.
If you're seriously looking to learn how to work on cars, I'd suggest an old, carbureted, cheapass Mustang or Jeep Wrangler. Both of them are readily available in all sorts of price ranges, parts are really ridiculously easy to find and most importantly, they are very easy to work on with a basic set of tools and Haynes manual.
Any newer vehicle, say from the late '80s/early 90's forward, is going to have an engine bay jam-packed with crap. The older cars have less options, so they have a buttload of room under the hood so you can easily learn your way around in there without cursing the gods of tight tolerances. Believe me, when you're changing spark plugs and you can sit on the hood with your feet dangling next to the engine, you'll be much better off than trying to contort around and underneath and over and oh shit I just dropped my socket.
These are the correct answer.
You do not want a car with body/ frame damage as a project car. That type of thing is far beyond the ability/ toolset of...well, most anyone.
I did a project car once, and it was loads of fun. It was an 87 RX-7. Parts were surprisingly cheap, and due to the rotary weirdness there was a fair bit of room to work under the hood (that's comparing it to most modern cars).
When my kids are older, I plan on doing a project car with them. I wonder if you'll still be able to get beetle parts in 15 years...
I agree, the E46 M3 is not the place to start with a project car. They are stupidly complicated, and every suspension and engine component is unique and costs more than a vanilla 3-series. The engine takes special tools that cost an arm and a leg, and there are NO transmission service parts available, anywhere.
If you want a BMW project, get a early 90's E36 chassis 3-series. Cheaper, simpler, lighter.
Echoing what people have said here, a roll-over '06 M3 is not the most ideal project. That's the kind of thing someone with bodywork experience would buy for super cheap, fix it for cheap and flip it for a small profit.
If a Beetle really isn't your thing, I'd look for something pre-1990 that appeals to you. I'd stay away from mid-70's American cars, though. Gas shortages and emissions craziness did some strange things to that era.
Actually, another thought. You could buy the M3 if the price is really as good as you say and part it out for some serious profit you can use to start another project.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
This is a great recommendation. The initial cost of a decent beetle might be a little higher than other makes, but the low cost of parts easily makes up for that. I just put a new set of coilover shocks on my Karmann Ghia for less than $150. A similar set for my Rx7 costs at least $750. The only real trick with them is to find the least rusty one you can find, so you don't have to do too much sheet metal replacement. The floor pans and door jams are the worst parts, so if those are intact the rest can be replaced pretty easy.
This is indeed a good idea, though it really depends on the initial price and how much time you'll want to spend stripping it.
I agree with the general consensus that this would be way to expensive a project to be had for a first time experience. I'll recommend the early 1990 DSM's (Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo for example) or Subaru.
Don't get me wrong here, there's nothing wrong with getting a project that needs a bit of bodywork, I am currently tinkering with my daily driver civic, and just finished getting rid of the last of the rust, and its a very nice feeling, but what you describe is a whole different animal, it will have to be completely torn apart, and inspected for frame/unibody damage, then you will have to either straighten out all of the panels (unless you are a sheet metal wizard, this is unlikely) or buy new ones, which will cost thousands of dollars. At this point you will have (hopefully, if there is no frame damage) a shell to work with. You will then need to buy all of the suspension components that were damaged, at probably several thousand more dollars (German high performance, remember?) and put it all back together.
when I think of a project car, I think of something that is fairly straight, maybe a little rust/dents to take care of, and that has good potential (handling upgrades, power, whathaveyou). what you are talking about is a complete tear-down restoration. Some people like that, but if you do this, do it knowing that it will take you years to complete and will probably end up costing more than if you were to buy an undamaged example of the same car elsewhere.
Negativity aside, a project car is a great thing. If you're into the German cars, an older BMW 3 series is a good buy, along with 2nd generation Volkswagen cars, which are dirt simple to work on, and very nice handling cars.
I have to also recommend any civic from 1988 to 2000, they have a ridiculous aftermarket, and if you can get over the stigma (my way of doing this is to go in a completely different direction looks wise than most other people that own civics), they can be made seriously fast, for not a lot of money. Older Nissans are great cars too, as well as pretty much any mazda proteges (just beware of the rust, they like to suddenly turn into piles of brown stuff) which are fantastic handling cars with very minimal suspension changes.
As for american iron, you have to go a bit older to get anything worth working on, in my opinion. Older chevy V8 Cars, Mustang 5.0s etc. Basically stuff that if you look at it the right way, it gains 100 horsepower. Parts are the cheapest you can find, and you can probably climb right into the engine bay to do the work
They're cheap, easy to work with, and parts are everywhere. Lot of people work on them, so there's TONS of knowledge.
One of these would be my recommendation. I pretty much agree with everyone who's saying 'no' in this thread, for the same reasons.
There are people that I know that do projects on BMWs and Audis and Porsches and the like, but they're really rich, because the parts are just stupidly expensive.
I'm not trying to make it into a thing about budget, but it's something really have to consider.
And while there is a bit of information about BMWs, for instance, there's a ton more information about Camaros and Mustangs by far.
It's hugely complicated to do this. Here's a good writeup: http://e46.mit.edu/
You're not going to sell a wrecked E46 M3 for over $12,000, even if it is fully repaired. It'll cost that much just to get the suspension sorted out and the body straight.
Now, parting it out is a good idea, the engines go for $10k, and the transmissions for $6k or more.
Yeah, that's definitely true. That's the equivalent of a lemon in my books.
It was universally recommended to me to go on craigslist and find something pre-79 and go from there.
edit: I have not done it yet, so this thread is interesting.
That's just ridiculous, imo. You can find cheap cars from the 90s that are GREAT project cars. Hell, even 80s. I'm biased/particular to turbo cars but you have other options. In the end, the electrical portion is a GREAT learning experience as well because you're learning about one of the most important aspects of engine tuning that you'll definitely take with you as you move to newer cars.
edit -
and just to clarify, you can always find sites/forums dedicated to modifying these well known project cars
or even local chapters that deal with modded cars in general. There's a local subaru owners club in Indianapolis that basically works on cars almost every weekend and has people who work at the Subaru dealership as mechanics. The only fee they charge is bringing food and beer. In the end, you're not SOL finding SOMEONE to help you.
Secondly - as a possible project I'd like to suggest a Miata. It's modern but not to modern, can be bought cheap and there is lots that can be done with it.
I definitely wouldn't suggest working on something with frame damage (e.g. twisting), drivetrain damage, or axle damage if you don't know how to repair that kind of thing, because... let's be honest... if you screw it up, things could get real bad real quick when you take it around for a test cruise.