Totally not perma-death, even in name. At the moment of death your mind is strip-mined (which would kill you anyway) and transmitted to the cloning facility.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
Runescape had something like that too, but your shit dropped on the ground instead. And got looted forever.
Corehealer on
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2010
You mind is transmitted in Eve. The wreckage of your ship stays where it was and anything still usable off of it is fair game. :P
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I've salvaged many a player and computer ship in the my days on EVE, as sporadic and gut wrenchingly boring they were. The few good moments I had in EVE involved cleaning up after battles for my corp or ninja salvaging. The actual fighting usually ended in me getting killed, especially during my brief stint as a pirate.
WAR40K would have some excellent chances to create a memorable space PvP experience.
Heh i did 2 years in goonfleet from the start of the great war to a few months after the eye of terror campaign--EVE was only fun because of the damage you could inflict upon your enemys. You'd have to do a shitton of balancing because a FPS never mixes well with item loss.
A good way to do perma death without actually killing your char would be the commanders point of view. Your char is the commander who doesnt fight in combat but instead has the ability to spawn NPC's which you have an option of controlling. The NPC's cost an appropriate amount so when they die you feel it but your main char isent affected he just has to collect whatever resource he needs for that NPC squad. You could actually include a perma death thing where if your commander dies then he loses all his medals/items that affected the NPC squads he summoned so you could have a badass SM commander in artifice armor and still get a chance to use him in combat but at a risk that me might die.
I'm telling you any sort of unmonitored terminator armor will ruin the entire game--EQ epics were hard as shit yes but eventually EVERYONE had one and that was before wikis and cheat sites. Unless there was like 200 per server or some sort of limit on the amount allowed its going to be shit. The entire fact that people will be so goddamn focused on getting terminator armor gos to show how horrible it will be to have SM's as a playable faction.
Pretty much the deciding factor on whether this game will make it or burn will be its playable imperial faction.
That's pretty much what I was hoping for. Have the player control a 'regiment' that instead of gaining traditional levels would have access to better training/weapons/units as the player moved along.
But. That'd be fun for me, I'm just not sure how wide an audience it would gather.
Well, another idea I had was, instead of permadeath, a similar experience for PvP alone.
Here's how it would play out: In PvP, the game would be pretty brutal. Possibly damage increased across the board, making it very deadly. To balance out the sides, respawn times would be the biggest affector. For example, if you're playing as a marine. You kill a bunch of IG dudes, finally get taken down, and have to wait 30-60 seconds to respawn, and then head back into the battle. On the other hand, the guard players would not have a respawn time, as well as the possibility of field medics who could revive fallen guardsmen, so they wouldn't have to footslog it back to the battle.
This way, you could still have it so that a marine is pretty much always going to beat a guardsmen, but on the other hand, the guardsmen will pretty much always outnumber their opponents(Perhaps have AI guardsmen aiding the PC's). I'd love to see PvP scenario's with this. For example, the marines get to drop-pod down into a guard fortified encampment. The guard get 3-5 respawns a piece, while the marines simply have to attempt to beat it without respawns.
Hence why I said I understand it won't actually happen :P
It could happen, but you would have to drastically modify the bog standard mmo game design template to pull it off, and no one wants to mess with WoW golden ratio.
Dark_Side on
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
Imperial Guard are technically aligned with the SMs, right? Unless there's a reason for them fighting like a heresy on one side or a Marine Chapter goes rogue or something. Where are the Eldar and Tau and Chaos and Tyranids and others in all this? They should mostly, if not all, be playable races and have an impact on PvP, each race possessing strengths and weaknesses.
Imperial Guard are technically aligned with the SMs, right? Unless there's a reason for them fighting like a heresy on one side or a Marine Chapter goes rogue or something. Where are the Eldar and Tau and Chaos and Tyranids and others in all this? They should mostly, if not all, be playable races and have an impact on PvP, each race possessing strengths and weaknesses.
Pretty sure everyone is fair game.
This is a setting where they virus-bomb entire cities because a few of the leaders have gone "bad".
The fact that the imperial guard and marines are on the same side, has never stopped a game maker, nor tabletop players, from having them face off against eachother. Essentially, everyone in 40k wants everyone else dead, whether because they hate them, they're in their way, or they need more blood for the blood god.
I think Dawn of War: Dark Crusade nailed it with the Space Marines versus Imperial Guard HQ territory mission:
At a certain part of the mission, a section of the enemy Imperial Guard will defect to your side and help you finish the mission. In the epilogue for this mission it is discovered that said defectors are summarily executed whereas the Imperial Guard who fought to the last were exalted for following their orders to the letter, even if it meant fighting the Space Marines.
The fact that the imperial guard and marines are on the same side, has never stopped a game maker, nor tabletop players, from having them face off against eachother. Essentially, everyone in 40k wants everyone else dead, whether because they hate them, they're in their way, or they need more blood for the blood god.
And, in the case of my Tyranid army, they make for good snacks. :P
Honestly, Warhammer 40k feels like it belongs to an MMOFPS or MMO action game WITHOUT A CHARACTER PROGRESSION ELEMENT. Allow me to say that first. Lime it, point out that it's not what's being made, but I honestly think that a TF2-style gameplay and setup would jive with 40k much better.
That said:
To solve the Terminator Problem, as it were, I think allowing equipment customization, but enforcing certain types of equipment loadouts would be a good solution. This, of course, is for armies whose troops tend to be less static in nature. Eldar, for example, would have your typical class distinctions drawn by your choice of Warrior Aspect.
Drawn form my experience as a WoW player:
Rather than having loot drop from enemies, you acquire your wargear either as a quest reward, or from a token-based system where you acquire tokens for certain activities. These tokens are segregated based on where you got them from, and what they can buy you:
Small-scale gameplay (i.e. dailies, single-player quests, 5/10-man missions) awards tokens that can buy you new things in accordance with those activities - say, an upgrade to your bolter's ammo capacity, a new CCW, an Auspex, a teleport homer, etc. A quest item that changes that character into a Librarian might be included here, and would have to be available early on
OTOH, missions and achievements done in large groups (say, large-scale siege/defense missions, clearing out a Space Hulk, etc.) give you currency that you can use to buy awards designed with those types of missions in mind, in addition to wargear superior to whatever Imperial Protector's Badges could "buy" you. For example, you might be able to "buy" a quest item that eventually grants you Terminator Honors, clearance to pilot vehicles, or makes you a Captain/Chaplain/Apothecary/Tech-Marine/etc.
Terminator Honors would obviously grant other bonuses beyond just getting to use Terminator Armor, and Terminator Armor would have its own set of restrictions in wargear choices
Achievements in both small-scale and large-scale gameplay offer interesting opportunities with regards to the token system I just mentioned. Especially heroic deeds should award tokens in accordance with how challenging or ballsy that deed was (i.e. Tarkus from DoW2 earned his Terminator Honors by killing a Tomb Spyder back in Dark Crusade, which is why he has a bionic arm)
Large-group PvP and PvE missions enforce limits on specific entities, such as Terminators. Depending on the specific mission, those limits may vary (i.e. Space Hulk missions have a higher limit on the number of Terminators), if there are any limits at all (or if they are allowed in the first place)
Any such entity with limits will also have a pre-requisite to its use, often met by a quest item as mentioned above
Any player character who has a certain type of rank or status (i.e. Terminator Honors, Captain rank) may "queue" for missions with that rank in mind (i.e. having Terminator Honors lets you use Terminator Armor for certain missions, but it doesn't stop you from NOT playing in Terminator Armor on that same mission if you so chose)
On the other hand, if you acquired a class upgrade (i.e. Librarian/Chaplain/etc.), that is ALWAYS reflected when you "queue" for missions.
Of course, all that is just concept. I could hunker down and flesh that out a lot further, but the basic idea would be to provide gameplay rewards via a token-based currency. Non-gameplay stuff, in the vein of WoW's companions and other silly things, could be provided via a second currency system (perhaps actual money for the Imperial Guard) or even the same one (teef for Orks).
And what would we call those marks I talked about earlier? Easy:
- Mark of the Imperium's Servant (single-player rewards)
- Badge of the Imperial Hero (group rewards)
- Seal of the Emperor's Champion (holy shit you're a badass, buy badass shit with these)
With the appropriate renaming for other "races" (i.e. Mark of the Ruinous Powers/Badge of the Warp/Seal of Chaos, Mark of the Craftworld/Badge of the Exarchs/Seal of the Eldar Champion, Boyz' Teef/Nobz' Teef/Boss's Teef, etc.), of course.
notsoy on
Soul Silver FC: 1978 3200 2285
GT: HitoriLionheart or dailydro
Yeah but the only thing wrong with that idea is 'small group' and 'raid' which lead down the evil path that everquest paved and all MMO's should avoid like a plague. If you think about it a terminator is marginally better then a normal SM unless deployed in large numbers. I could see a player commander wearing terminator armor if he was controlling almost an entire company of NPC marines.
I imagine most pvp combat will take place in instanced battle grounds but the death problem brings up alot of questions. You could have say maximum 60 human players in a instance but each one controls a large squad of NPC's with the actual 30 human players doing nothing but sitting back at the control points. It would be a nice touch if every time you died you were just knocked unconscious and had your body be dragged back to a friendly control point so you'd never truly die just the NPC's you controlled.
I'm also against static equipment--i want to see armor/weapons get destroyed. Every battle your in all of your shit takes damage, if you managed to bring back your equipment continually without it being completely destroyed it gets improved every time you repair it. So if you still have that bolter that was given to you when you started at higher levels it would be this badass bolter that gave a shitton of passive bonus's. You could also use this system to control weapons--you'll only get better weapons if you've shown the chapter you'll take care of it and use it wisely. The system would balance out SM's nicely so you dont have everyone running around with absurdly badass gear since players could target and destroy your weapons/armor causing attrition. Make this system only for the SM's to balance out how badass they are.
A guardsmen doesnt care to much about his gun so he wont be shackled by that system he'll just be able to get any awesome weapon(depending on whats available) depending on what rank he is. Orks will get better weapons the more they fight so a high kill score means your cleava turns into a power klaw and your slugga pistol turns into a giant slugga. I honestly dont know what to do with the eldar haha maybe just force them to choose an aspect that limits their weapons and throw a big quest if they want to change their aspect.
SM's are pretty much the only faction that could end horribly due to all of the lore limitations were if you removed them the entire game would be a breeze in terms of lore but a bitch in terms of game play. I'm all for a dan abenett MMO with guardsmen blowing CSM's heads off with a lasgun.
It would be pretty awesome if there were some way this could be like planetside (yes I still bring up planetside ~7 years later), but with 40k armies. That seems like it's basically what notsoy is describing. This would also solve (sort of) the terminator problem; just don't let more than X number of people be termies at once. I doubt that is where the game is going, though.
And yeah, in the context of the lore there's almost as big a gap between terminators and regular marines as there is between regular marines and guardsmen. The difference isn't as huge in the actual tabletop game, but it's still pretty big (at least, last time I played it was.)
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Yeah TT is were it counts since the books are screwy--i've seen a terminator be a walking tank thats indestructible and i've seen a terminator get taken out in seconds. A terminator is a walking badass thats pretty much impervious to anything smaller then a krak missile/las cannon/battle cannon and has been through enough battles to rape you up close but hes also a giant walking target that will get taken out if a heavy weapons team gets the chance.
Why i say a terminator isent much different then a normal SM is there will most likely be 20-30 normal SM's for every 1 terminator and if that terminator gets hit and killed thats something that almost cant be replaced where they churn out SM's in an almost endless tide.
Arghy on
Ask me about the holocaust.
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2010
I think that termie armor would be sufficiently balanced by the fact that they are too heavy to stand on many surfaces, cannot ride in any but some specific vehicles; and indeed cannot pilot any of them, have limited equipment loadouts and (hopefully) will be incredibly expensive to repair.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The only way I would play a 40k MMO is if Space Marines are unplayable. I would prefer the game to focus on Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle or the Inquisition. Space Marines just really ought to be just godlike beings you hardly ever see except for the odd mission where they drop off in the distance and rape face before leaving again with barely a nod in your direction.
The only way I would play a 40k MMO is if Space Marines are unplayable. I would prefer the game to focus on Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle or the Inquisition. Space Marines just really ought to be just godlike beings you hardly ever see except for the odd mission where they drop off in the distance and rape face before leaving again with barely a nod in your direction.
I'm not sure you'll be playing a 40k MMO then.
SM's are a huge part of 40k. Look at all the books. Look at what's included in every starter game box of the TT game. Look at how many different chapters get their own Codex in TT. Look at the armies represented in all the previous video games; it's generally always SM, Eldar, and Chaos or Greenskins as the 3 intial armies. Sure the Tau got Firewarrior, but Tau and IG are generally added later, in expansions, either official or not, and Nids...they're probably the biggest wild card.
The challenge the devs face will not be in deciding if they include SM, it will be in deciding how to balance them. Will they be the insanely powerful, "1 squad of SM's can take on a planet or normal people" or the let's waste thousands of em in a battle from the Horus Heresy era. I'm guessing it will be closer to the Heresy era than pretending an SM is supposed to be like a Primarch.
A game set during the Horus Heresy would work quite well, actually. Space Marines weren't yet monks who spent all their downtime praying and the majority of combat was all Marines versus Marines.
I think in the OP it was mentioned it's going to take place in a more current timeline?
One thing I hope is that they don't go overboard on the 'classes' for each race or faction. If they decide to go for classes at all. One thing that kind of hurt WAR was the fact that each race within a faction had its own classes. This was cool from a background standpoint, but made balancing very difficult. Part of what made WoW's PvP pretty balanced was the fact that each faction had access to the same basic classes. Obviously that won't be so easy with 40k.
What might be kind of cool is make the classes universal for all the factions: HQ (would be tank like), Elite (hybrid of tank/dps/healing, or maybe support?), Troop (Summons and pets), Fast Attack (DPS), Heavy (??? maybe vehicle command? Tanking/summons?). Each 'race' (Guard, Marine, Inquisition on one side, Cultist, Chaos Marine, Daemon-possessed on the other?) would have a few options of each, but not all. So maybe Guard would have Elites, troops and fast attacks, but no HQ, and so on. The names and effects of the powers might change depending on what race you took, (like perhaps the hardiness of a Marine's HP comes from his power armor, and a troopers comes from void shields), but the actual outcome of the powers should be the same. This way you keep things a bit more simple, and you don't limit people too much in terms of what they can do within a given 'race.' So a Fast Attack Guard should be just as tough and able to do just as much damage as a Fast Attack Marine, they should also have all the same powers (minus some unique abilities they each get based on their race). The difference will be in the names and animations of the attacks.
Maybe from a lore standpoint that doesn't make sense, but I'd rather they change the lore to fit a better game than break the game to better fit the lore.
I don't think Terminators should be playable, they should be faction leaders, or NPCs only. Otherwise you limit arguably the coolest and toughest piece of equipment in the game to only one group.
I like, but maybe a more EVE approach vs Diablo Hardcore?
You die -> you lose your ship(armor?), and if you didn't spend $$ on a clone vat, a lot of skills.
You do something like that in an MMO, you end up with people basically fighting naked with the cheapest weapon available, which is what happened in Darkfall. EVE is different because you need a ship to even leave a station.
People need to accept that perma-death, of any form, and significant death penalties are pretty much off the table in any MMO that wants to attract a large player-base. EVE is one of the few games that has had some success (but, even there, more than half the player-base never PvP's voluntarily) with limited perma-death and a significant death penalty. The relatively casual player-base is significantly larger than the hardcorz, and your average player is going to rage-quit if his toon dies for good or loses cool loot upon death.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2010
I would prefer for non-space Marine characters that they gave you the unit or something. I would be very interesting if your raid group was limited to 1 HQ unit etc etc.
It would really put the damper on those who sperg out over SM characters if you went up in PvP against a chaos character and the opposing player had 8 cultists to throw at you.
Edit: It would also be metal if your pets got toasted rather than a perma death on you. You would have to scrape up some new minnions if you wanted to get back in the thick of things. Of course, a reserve would come in handy so you could get back into action quickly, and you could farm up some new guardsmen or cultists or whatever on your own time.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I don't know, all this talk about controlling more than one character ala-squad based combat just doesn't feel... right. Sounds like people want the entire game to play as if all you could be was a pet/summoner class.
I always friggin hated no unique classes and saw it as a symptom of WoW selling out(they were legit at some point! honestly!) when they made the shamy and paladin universal. I hated WAR's fucking mirror system with both sides getting the same goddamn spell/attack but they just renamed it and threw some fucking shading on it.
Throwing in massive ability gaps will encourage tactics--say IG vs orks. The orks constantly rape up close and every single ork player knows to just rush the IG. Instead of throwing in ogryns as a playable race/pet leave it like that so IG players advance cautiously and use squad/armored fist tactics.
I always friggin hated no unique classes and saw it as a symptom of WoW selling out(they were legit at some point! honestly!) when they made the shamy and paladin universal. I hated WAR's fucking mirror system with both sides getting the same goddamn spell/attack but they just renamed it and threw some fucking shading on it.
Throwing in massive ability gaps will encourage tactics--say IG vs orks. The orks constantly rape up close and every single ork player knows to just rush the IG. Instead of throwing in ogryns as a playable race/pet leave it like that so IG players advance cautiously and use squad/armored fist tactics.
Yes but that also throws skill out of the equation, you basicly end up with a situation where IG will win on every map where they have a field of fire and orkz will win on any map with cover that allows them mobility. This of course applies to battlegrounds only, on open world warfare you'd encourage orkz to give up open ground and defend in rugged terrain and this is healthy.
Haahaha technically orks could win every fight if they just had all their men run in a straight line which is as simple as clipping on guide lines to the lead ork and a thing of rope to the rest.
Haahaha technically orks could win every fight if they just had all their men run in a straight line which is as simple as clipping on guide lines to the lead ork and a thing of rope to the rest.
Man what?
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Well orks are generally hard to bring down so if they advanced in single file using the bodys of the orks in front as a shield they'd constantly read the guard lines before they died. I think it would be awesome if IG constantly won on open maps while orks constantly won on closed maps so you'd have these contested zones of conflict that would basically be meat grinders for one of the factions. It would be so awesome if an ork player could strap a stormboyz rocket on his back and jump into the middle of a guard held fort and even better for the IG player because you'd experience real panic when it happened while you desperately tried to bayonet it down and hold the firing line.
Posts
Totally not perma-death, even in name. At the moment of death your mind is strip-mined (which would kill you anyway) and transmitted to the cloning facility.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
WAR40K would have some excellent chances to create a memorable space PvP experience.
A good way to do perma death without actually killing your char would be the commanders point of view. Your char is the commander who doesnt fight in combat but instead has the ability to spawn NPC's which you have an option of controlling. The NPC's cost an appropriate amount so when they die you feel it but your main char isent affected he just has to collect whatever resource he needs for that NPC squad. You could actually include a perma death thing where if your commander dies then he loses all his medals/items that affected the NPC squads he summoned so you could have a badass SM commander in artifice armor and still get a chance to use him in combat but at a risk that me might die.
I'm telling you any sort of unmonitored terminator armor will ruin the entire game--EQ epics were hard as shit yes but eventually EVERYONE had one and that was before wikis and cheat sites. Unless there was like 200 per server or some sort of limit on the amount allowed its going to be shit. The entire fact that people will be so goddamn focused on getting terminator armor gos to show how horrible it will be to have SM's as a playable faction.
Pretty much the deciding factor on whether this game will make it or burn will be its playable imperial faction.
But. That'd be fun for me, I'm just not sure how wide an audience it would gather.
Here's how it would play out: In PvP, the game would be pretty brutal. Possibly damage increased across the board, making it very deadly. To balance out the sides, respawn times would be the biggest affector. For example, if you're playing as a marine. You kill a bunch of IG dudes, finally get taken down, and have to wait 30-60 seconds to respawn, and then head back into the battle. On the other hand, the guard players would not have a respawn time, as well as the possibility of field medics who could revive fallen guardsmen, so they wouldn't have to footslog it back to the battle.
This way, you could still have it so that a marine is pretty much always going to beat a guardsmen, but on the other hand, the guardsmen will pretty much always outnumber their opponents(Perhaps have AI guardsmen aiding the PC's). I'd love to see PvP scenario's with this. For example, the marines get to drop-pod down into a guard fortified encampment. The guard get 3-5 respawns a piece, while the marines simply have to attempt to beat it without respawns.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
It could happen, but you would have to drastically modify the bog standard mmo game design template to pull it off, and no one wants to mess with WoW golden ratio.
Pretty sure everyone is fair game.
This is a setting where they virus-bomb entire cities because a few of the leaders have gone "bad".
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
At a certain part of the mission, a section of the enemy Imperial Guard will defect to your side and help you finish the mission. In the epilogue for this mission it is discovered that said defectors are summarily executed whereas the Imperial Guard who fought to the last were exalted for following their orders to the letter, even if it meant fighting the Space Marines.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
And, in the case of my Tyranid army, they make for good snacks. :P
That said:
To solve the Terminator Problem, as it were, I think allowing equipment customization, but enforcing certain types of equipment loadouts would be a good solution. This, of course, is for armies whose troops tend to be less static in nature. Eldar, for example, would have your typical class distinctions drawn by your choice of Warrior Aspect.
Drawn form my experience as a WoW player:
Of course, all that is just concept. I could hunker down and flesh that out a lot further, but the basic idea would be to provide gameplay rewards via a token-based currency. Non-gameplay stuff, in the vein of WoW's companions and other silly things, could be provided via a second currency system (perhaps actual money for the Imperial Guard) or even the same one (teef for Orks).
And what would we call those marks I talked about earlier? Easy:
- Mark of the Imperium's Servant (single-player rewards)
- Badge of the Imperial Hero (group rewards)
- Seal of the Emperor's Champion (holy shit you're a badass, buy badass shit with these)
With the appropriate renaming for other "races" (i.e. Mark of the Ruinous Powers/Badge of the Warp/Seal of Chaos, Mark of the Craftworld/Badge of the Exarchs/Seal of the Eldar Champion, Boyz' Teef/Nobz' Teef/Boss's Teef, etc.), of course.
GT: HitoriLionheart or dailydro
I imagine most pvp combat will take place in instanced battle grounds but the death problem brings up alot of questions. You could have say maximum 60 human players in a instance but each one controls a large squad of NPC's with the actual 30 human players doing nothing but sitting back at the control points. It would be a nice touch if every time you died you were just knocked unconscious and had your body be dragged back to a friendly control point so you'd never truly die just the NPC's you controlled.
I'm also against static equipment--i want to see armor/weapons get destroyed. Every battle your in all of your shit takes damage, if you managed to bring back your equipment continually without it being completely destroyed it gets improved every time you repair it. So if you still have that bolter that was given to you when you started at higher levels it would be this badass bolter that gave a shitton of passive bonus's. You could also use this system to control weapons--you'll only get better weapons if you've shown the chapter you'll take care of it and use it wisely. The system would balance out SM's nicely so you dont have everyone running around with absurdly badass gear since players could target and destroy your weapons/armor causing attrition. Make this system only for the SM's to balance out how badass they are.
A guardsmen doesnt care to much about his gun so he wont be shackled by that system he'll just be able to get any awesome weapon(depending on whats available) depending on what rank he is. Orks will get better weapons the more they fight so a high kill score means your cleava turns into a power klaw and your slugga pistol turns into a giant slugga. I honestly dont know what to do with the eldar haha maybe just force them to choose an aspect that limits their weapons and throw a big quest if they want to change their aspect.
SM's are pretty much the only faction that could end horribly due to all of the lore limitations were if you removed them the entire game would be a breeze in terms of lore but a bitch in terms of game play. I'm all for a dan abenett MMO with guardsmen blowing CSM's heads off with a lasgun.
Lol whut
Seriously though, this is very much wrong.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
And yeah, in the context of the lore there's almost as big a gap between terminators and regular marines as there is between regular marines and guardsmen. The difference isn't as huge in the actual tabletop game, but it's still pretty big (at least, last time I played it was.)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Why i say a terminator isent much different then a normal SM is there will most likely be 20-30 normal SM's for every 1 terminator and if that terminator gets hit and killed thats something that almost cant be replaced where they churn out SM's in an almost endless tide.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I'm not sure you'll be playing a 40k MMO then.
SM's are a huge part of 40k. Look at all the books. Look at what's included in every starter game box of the TT game. Look at how many different chapters get their own Codex in TT. Look at the armies represented in all the previous video games; it's generally always SM, Eldar, and Chaos or Greenskins as the 3 intial armies. Sure the Tau got Firewarrior, but Tau and IG are generally added later, in expansions, either official or not, and Nids...they're probably the biggest wild card.
The challenge the devs face will not be in deciding if they include SM, it will be in deciding how to balance them. Will they be the insanely powerful, "1 squad of SM's can take on a planet or normal people" or the let's waste thousands of em in a battle from the Horus Heresy era. I'm guessing it will be closer to the Heresy era than pretending an SM is supposed to be like a Primarch.
The odds of this are still likely very, very low.
One thing I hope is that they don't go overboard on the 'classes' for each race or faction. If they decide to go for classes at all. One thing that kind of hurt WAR was the fact that each race within a faction had its own classes. This was cool from a background standpoint, but made balancing very difficult. Part of what made WoW's PvP pretty balanced was the fact that each faction had access to the same basic classes. Obviously that won't be so easy with 40k.
What might be kind of cool is make the classes universal for all the factions: HQ (would be tank like), Elite (hybrid of tank/dps/healing, or maybe support?), Troop (Summons and pets), Fast Attack (DPS), Heavy (??? maybe vehicle command? Tanking/summons?). Each 'race' (Guard, Marine, Inquisition on one side, Cultist, Chaos Marine, Daemon-possessed on the other?) would have a few options of each, but not all. So maybe Guard would have Elites, troops and fast attacks, but no HQ, and so on. The names and effects of the powers might change depending on what race you took, (like perhaps the hardiness of a Marine's HP comes from his power armor, and a troopers comes from void shields), but the actual outcome of the powers should be the same. This way you keep things a bit more simple, and you don't limit people too much in terms of what they can do within a given 'race.' So a Fast Attack Guard should be just as tough and able to do just as much damage as a Fast Attack Marine, they should also have all the same powers (minus some unique abilities they each get based on their race). The difference will be in the names and animations of the attacks.
Maybe from a lore standpoint that doesn't make sense, but I'd rather they change the lore to fit a better game than break the game to better fit the lore.
I don't think Terminators should be playable, they should be faction leaders, or NPCs only. Otherwise you limit arguably the coolest and toughest piece of equipment in the game to only one group.
HQ: Buffs/Support/Secondary Tank
Elites: Nukes/DoTs
Troops: Summons and Pets
Fast Attack: DPS
Heavy: Tank
Makes sense. Perhaps give each race three...
HQ: Librarian
Fast Attack: Assault Squads
Heavy: Tactical Marines
IG:
Elites: Sanctioned Psyker
Troops: Commissar(with guardsmen)
Fast Attack: Veteran(Access to special and heavy weapons, artillery calls, etc)
"Imperium"
HQ: Interrogator(Perhaps eventually inquisitor)
Troops: Techpriest (with servitors)
Fast Attack: Assassin
Chaos:
Elites: Sorceror
Fast Attack: Raptors
Heavy: Chaos Space Marines
Eldar:
Troops: Warlock w/ Guardians
Fast Attack: Harlequins
Heavy: Striking Scorpions
Orks:
HQ: Weirdboy
Elites: Loota
Troops: Nob(w/ Boys)
Tau:
Elites: Stealth Suits
Troops: Shaper(with kroot)
Fast Attack: Firewarrior
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
People need to accept that perma-death, of any form, and significant death penalties are pretty much off the table in any MMO that wants to attract a large player-base. EVE is one of the few games that has had some success (but, even there, more than half the player-base never PvP's voluntarily) with limited perma-death and a significant death penalty. The relatively casual player-base is significantly larger than the hardcorz, and your average player is going to rage-quit if his toon dies for good or loses cool loot upon death.
Rigorous Scholarship
It would really put the damper on those who sperg out over SM characters if you went up in PvP against a chaos character and the opposing player had 8 cultists to throw at you.
Edit: It would also be metal if your pets got toasted rather than a perma death on you. You would have to scrape up some new minnions if you wanted to get back in the thick of things. Of course, a reserve would come in handy so you could get back into action quickly, and you could farm up some new guardsmen or cultists or whatever on your own time.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Steam Profile
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I like this Idea.
Tyranid-
Fast Attack - Warrior
Elite - Warrior
Oh wait, that's my TT nid army.
Throwing in massive ability gaps will encourage tactics--say IG vs orks. The orks constantly rape up close and every single ork player knows to just rush the IG. Instead of throwing in ogryns as a playable race/pet leave it like that so IG players advance cautiously and use squad/armored fist tactics.
Yes but that also throws skill out of the equation, you basicly end up with a situation where IG will win on every map where they have a field of fire and orkz will win on any map with cover that allows them mobility. This of course applies to battlegrounds only, on open world warfare you'd encourage orkz to give up open ground and defend in rugged terrain and this is healthy.
I'm solded then.
Steam Name: Dr.Oblivious
If you can't live for the now, at least live for the future.
Man what?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
The single file one, that is.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
You can only encourage crazy Fiaryn.
Keep going Arghy where do other factions fall into your framework?