Someday if I ever complete my IG army, I'll definitely create a malal themed setup.
I have to ask, has anyone ever actually completed an army?
I mean, has anyone just woken up one day looked at their shelves upon shelves of tiny plastic soldiers and tiny plastic tanks and tiny plastic airplanes and said to themselves "I'm done, there's nothing left I want to get"?
I've got a list. Mostly it's when I have a fully company of Space Marines including transports.
I honestly believe that I'll say that once I finish purchasing and painting my little plastic men.
I also said the same thing for my Mordhiem Witchhunters after buying their starter pack, but that was a much smaller game.
As long as I get to chop up gits I'll be happy. The prospect of huge engines of destruction lumbering towards my squard of Boyz is so appealing to me that it requires a term that, thankfully, was coined earlier in the Graphic Violence section of the forums.
If this game lives up to half the promise of it = Boner Locomotive.
It's probably a collection of things but 40k is seriously the most evocative setting you could ever hope to place a game in. I don't even think WHF comes close to the ridiculous awesomeness of the 40k galaxy.
Not if you're a history and classic pulp nerd. Nothing beats Martin Luther fighting Lovecraftian horrors alongside Solomon Kane.
Still, I might have agreed back in the mid 90's. 40k has just gotten too muddled for my taste in recent years.
wait this is what WHF is? o_O besides skaven WHF seems so bland to me...
It's probably a collection of things but 40k is seriously the most evocative setting you could ever hope to place a game in. I don't even think WHF comes close to the ridiculous awesomeness of the 40k galaxy.
Not if you're a history and classic pulp nerd. Nothing beats Martin Luther fighting Lovecraftian horrors alongside Solomon Kane.
Still, I might have agreed back in the mid 90's. 40k has just gotten too muddled for my taste in recent years.
wait this is what WHF is? o_O besides skaven WHF seems so bland to me...
Well there's this dude, who, besides slaughtering Skaven, hunting witches and duking it out with eldritch abominations, also has a sweet hat.
I used to hate the Imperium in 40k for being so boring, but after a while, the hate turned to love because of how damn ridiculous they can be.
"Sir, we just found that one of the citizens in Hive C27BFGJ9 on Planet Whogivesafuck may or may not have a scab that relates to things found on Chaos-"
"EXTERMINATUS."
"Sir, I didn't-"
"DID YOU NOT HEAR ME? EXTERMINATUS! ON THE ENTIRE SYSTEM!"
Thats just rediculous. The inquisition would question(torture) the citizen for a week, kill him, and then exterminatus the whole system regardless of the outcome.
Thats just rediculous. The inquisition would question(torture) the citizen for a week, kill him, and then exterminatus the whole system regardless of the outcome.
The results of the inquiry determine if they also exterminatus nearby systems as well.
Thats just rediculous. The inquisition would question(torture) the citizen for a week, kill him, and then exterminatus the whole system regardless of the outcome.
If he wasn't guilty, they why would they have suspected him?
William King (Gotrek and Felix), Dan Abnett (Malus Darkblade, Fell Cargo), CL Werner (Witch Hunter, Thanquol), Sandy Mitchell (Death's City/House/Whatever), and Jack Yeovil (Genevieve, Beasts in Velvet) are the Warhammer authors worth checking out, if you can dig writing that's on par with 80's buddy/action movies and a good dose of Howard or Lovecraft cut-and-pasted in. Absolutely awesome if you've read classic pulp authors and have run out of simple, kinetic, fantasy novels to read ('cause seriously, fuck all the stale-ass "omg no tits or blood only political intrigue" fantasy that's so popular these days).
The first batch of Gotrek and Felix books are what defined the setting. If you're the type that blasts something like Die Hard for ham-fisted characterizations and simple writing, you should probably go back to literature and ignore anything GW publishes, especially these books.
This mostly holds true for 40k books too, swapping "Yeovil" (a pseudonym for Kim Newman who's apparently a real, non-house author) for Ian Watson, who is another "real" author (if you can handle the narrator going insane and weird shit like that).
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Liquid GhostDO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
I liked the Mathias Thulmann stuff. Pretty much what I imagined a Witch Hunter to be.
Loved the Genevieve and Malus Darkblade books.
The Vampire Wars trilogy wasn't absolutely horrible, but I really only liked the Von Carsteins themselves. Vlad was a juggernaut, Mannfred was a monster, and Konrad was batshit fucking insane.
As far as 40k goes, I liked the Space Wolves material, but then again I like Space Wolves in general. The Ultramarines books were kind of forgettable, but I occasionally re-read "Dead Sky, Black Sun", because it introduces a few interesting characters and gives the reader a pretty decent idea of what Chaos is all about.
Pretty much all of the Heresy era books kicked my fucking ass.
There's a collection of short stories related to Chaos. I can never remember the name of it, but it had a pretty Lovecraftian spin on the universe. Something about a plague and this guy poking his nose into a sanatorium in order to find out what happened and why. It definitely stood out. There was a story from Kharn's perspective, too, which is the kind of thing I wish we could see more of. I want Chaos stories that are more like the ones you can find in the old codices -- here comes Chaos, fuck we're screwed, OMG we're all dying in gory ways.
I've been slacking on my fantasy reading lately. I want to round some people up out where I live so I can herd them to a table and get some gaming going on. I grew kind of disenchanted with a lot of the horror/fantasy novels that I bought, so I figured that a good alternative would be to simply create a type of universe I'm interested in and let other people fuck around in it. In a way, I'm getting a good story out of things and enjoying a social experience, but it's never as predictable as a lot of fantasy writing tends to be, because I can never tell what the fuck my players are going to do in almost any given situation.
The Witch Hunter trilogy is ok, but pretty forgettable. There must be more books coming in the future, because
the overall story doesn't resolve itself at all
Werner also has out Brunner the Bounty Hunter, which is pretty similar, although the first book is basically a collection of very short stories, which I can sum up each one as Brunner turns up and wins. The third one of the trilogy you could probably skip straight to, and not miss much with regards to what happened in the previous 2 parts.
again, there must be more books coming out for similar reasons to the Witch Hunter trilogy, in that there is no resolution to the overall story
I wasn't a fan of the Darkblade books (the first lot are pretty awful); the Gotrex and Felix books are ok, except it's getting rather silly with regards to what is thrown at them. Each book has to throw something bigger at them each time, but if it carries on like it is now, they're going to have to go up against a Chaos god.
Also, Thanquol comes across like a cartoon villian; very "next time Gadget" in those books. They're probably trying to redeem this in the Thanquol and Boneripper books.
I've not read the Time of legends books.
If you wanted good gritty fantasy books, I'd point you in the direction of the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie (check out his online blog at the very least).
Or you could try Retribution Falls which I could describe as a steam punk version of Firefly.
don't they fly around on disk or something? I do not follow the Fantasy stuff. Someone said earlier the Fantasy setting has been kept fairly canon free. So are they trying to keep it fragmented on purpose? I know a few people see structured canon as restricted.
I see the merit in both points, just wondering if there is a set 'history' for the fantasy setting.
Also, Thanquol comes across like a cartoon villian; very "next time Gadget" in those books. They're probably trying to redeem this in the Thanquol and Boneripper books.
It has less to do with "rat" and more to do with "vast conspiracy that's convinced the world's biggest nation that they are a fairytale and steal children from beds and have steampunk lasers and gatling guns and shit".
Imagine, for example, if you found out that, not only was Bigfoot real, but there were millions of Bigfoots living in secret bases underneath our cities. This Bigfoot nation would have unreliable but super advanced technology like teleporters and shit and would be an "open secret" in the highest levels of government, kept supressed because of fear and Bigfoot-bribed invidividuals actively working to supress knowledge of Bigfoots. Also the Bigfoots are megalomaniacal and delusional and believe they will rule the world someday.
don't they fly around on disk or something? I do not follow the Fantasy stuff. Someone said earlier the Fantasy setting has been kept fairly canon free. So are they trying to keep it fragmented on purpose? I know a few people see structured canon as restricted.
I see the merit in both points, just wondering if there is a set 'history' for the fantasy setting.
The big points and look are the closest thing to canon for both 40k and WFB. I think I've posted this before, but GW's own words on the concept:
"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...
Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.
Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.
I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.
Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note thet answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".
But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.
It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.
Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.
To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you."
"The Background exists as a context for the games that people play. Despite the occasional event, the background was never intended as an ongoing narrative that would be constantly updated. The back story presents questions, enigmas, problems, and conflicts. Gamers explore and solve these issues by playing games and developing armies. In short, the background provides the beginning, but the players provide the end.
What is Cypher up to? Well, he's up to whatever you need him to be up to for your games and campaigns. What does the cult mechanicus have to do with the dragon? Whatever you want that relationship to be.
The background should be like Schrödinger's Cat - Nothing is defined until the players look into the box by playing games and determining the outcome for themselves. Backgrounds should be full of possibilities to be exploited and expanded by players, not answers that limit the potential of the game and its setting."
The first batch of Gotrek and Felix books are what defined the setting. If you're the type that blasts something like Die Hard for ham-fisted characterizations and simple writing, you should probably go back to literature and ignore anything GW publishes, especially these books.
For what it's worth, I found the writing in Eisenhorn to be waaaay better than Gotrek & Felix.
The first batch of Gotrek and Felix books are what defined the setting. If you're the type that blasts something like Die Hard for ham-fisted characterizations and simple writing, you should probably go back to literature and ignore anything GW publishes, especially these books.
For what it's worth, I found the writing in Eisenhorn to be waaaay better than Gotrek & Felix.
Yeah, I think Abnett (Eisenhorn, etc) is probably the best technical author BL has currently. Watson, Newman/Yeovil as well.
King, I think, is prone to very purple prose and cliche repetition, but his characters are engaging and entertaining in a cartoony way. His work really makes me think of tentpole Summer movies.
As a whole, I really like old school pulpy sword-and-sorcery. Having read Howard and Lovecraft and the like over and over again, BL books are just about the only option to get more, with added benefit that the settings are cool.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Did you know that the Michael Moorcock Elrod of Melvinbone stories are available now in a paperback multi-volume collection ? I have Volume 1 right now. He wrote that stuff waaaay back in the early 60's. Hard to believe it's been around that long.
Yeah, some of it's pretty good stuff. Certainly archetypal in a way that he doesn't often get credit for. GW, Blizzard, pretty much any modern fantasy owes some imagery to ol' Stormbringer.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
The nearly albino magic-addicted Blood Elves do borrow a teensy bit from Moorcock, yes.
And of course Malekith and Aenarion are (very intentionally) Elric and Yrkoon mixed, split right down the middle and given a "what if" storyline where he gives up the sword. Arthas is a straight up cut-and-paste. Etc, etc...
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Blizzard rips off Games Workshop, etc etc. We get it, I agree. So does Tycho. Blah blah blah.
And of course Malekith and Aenarion are (very intentionally) Elric and Yrkoon mixed, split right down the middle and given a "what if" storyline where he gives up the sword. Arthas is a straight up cut-and-paste. Etc, etc...
Pleasantly enough, I don't think there's much similarity between GW chaos and Moorcock chaos. Way back when I started learning about Warhammer and saw the 8 pointed star, my alarm bells started going off.
This would be amazingly fun to use in a video game.
And yeah, other than the symbol itself (which *apparently* Moorcock kind of created) GW Chaos is much more focused on destroying the world than opposing Order. Their Chaos is more like Moorcock's Chaos that's been corrupted by sentient beings' egos.
Moorcock absolutely hates GW though (despite working with them in the 80's). His phrase is, I think, "consumate rip-off artists".
So how many people would be willing to ride around in my battlewagon, stomp 'umies, and loot stuff?
Yeah, at this point I'm hoping for a Planetside style game. Hopefully being the first MMO-Shooter in years to not use the Unreal engine will allow them to actually have wide open battlefields where titans and vehicles roam.
I'm still waiting for Darksiders to come out on Steam so I can get a feel for their work. Anyone who's played the game on the 360 have any insights?
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Posts
I've got a list. Mostly it's when I have a fully company of Space Marines including transports.
I honestly believe that I'll say that once I finish purchasing and painting my little plastic men.
I also said the same thing for my Mordhiem Witchhunters after buying their starter pack, but that was a much smaller game.
Yeah, but that guy is such a dick
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
there will be
wh40 stuff.
god i want to be playing this in alpha
I doubt it'll reach alpha stage until middle to late 2011. Rough guesstimate.
Battletag: Kain#1658
If this game lives up to half the promise of it = Boner Locomotive.
Ohh wow
Warhammer 40?
The initial rise of the emperor, as he slowly influenced humanity's course...
Ohh damn, it better not be some caverns of time crap up ins.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
Who wants to write 1k+ pages of code and argue about why it's not canon.
wait this is what WHF is? o_O besides skaven WHF seems so bland to me...
Well there's this dude, who, besides slaughtering Skaven, hunting witches and duking it out with eldritch abominations, also has a sweet hat.
Link
Seriously, look at that fucking hat.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
"Sir, we just found that one of the citizens in Hive C27BFGJ9 on Planet Whogivesafuck may or may not have a scab that relates to things found on Chaos-"
"EXTERMINATUS."
"Sir, I didn't-"
"DID YOU NOT HEAR ME? EXTERMINATUS! ON THE ENTIRE SYSTEM!"
"Yes sir..."
Steam Profile
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
The results of the inquiry determine if they also exterminatus nearby systems as well.
If he wasn't guilty, they why would they have suspected him?
Almost as cool as that hat that the limited edition Inquisitor model has.
Are those books any good, by the way? Because I skim through parts of WHF books every once in a while and the writing seems almost universally awful.
The first batch of Gotrek and Felix books are what defined the setting. If you're the type that blasts something like Die Hard for ham-fisted characterizations and simple writing, you should probably go back to literature and ignore anything GW publishes, especially these books.
This mostly holds true for 40k books too, swapping "Yeovil" (a pseudonym for Kim Newman who's apparently a real, non-house author) for Ian Watson, who is another "real" author (if you can handle the narrator going insane and weird shit like that).
Loved the Genevieve and Malus Darkblade books.
The Vampire Wars trilogy wasn't absolutely horrible, but I really only liked the Von Carsteins themselves. Vlad was a juggernaut, Mannfred was a monster, and Konrad was batshit fucking insane.
As far as 40k goes, I liked the Space Wolves material, but then again I like Space Wolves in general. The Ultramarines books were kind of forgettable, but I occasionally re-read "Dead Sky, Black Sun", because it introduces a few interesting characters and gives the reader a pretty decent idea of what Chaos is all about.
Pretty much all of the Heresy era books kicked my fucking ass.
There's a collection of short stories related to Chaos. I can never remember the name of it, but it had a pretty Lovecraftian spin on the universe. Something about a plague and this guy poking his nose into a sanatorium in order to find out what happened and why. It definitely stood out. There was a story from Kharn's perspective, too, which is the kind of thing I wish we could see more of. I want Chaos stories that are more like the ones you can find in the old codices -- here comes Chaos, fuck we're screwed, OMG we're all dying in gory ways.
I've been slacking on my fantasy reading lately. I want to round some people up out where I live so I can herd them to a table and get some gaming going on. I grew kind of disenchanted with a lot of the horror/fantasy novels that I bought, so I figured that a good alternative would be to simply create a type of universe I'm interested in and let other people fuck around in it. In a way, I'm getting a good story out of things and enjoying a social experience, but it's never as predictable as a lot of fantasy writing tends to be, because I can never tell what the fuck my players are going to do in almost any given situation.
Werner also has out Brunner the Bounty Hunter, which is pretty similar, although the first book is basically a collection of very short stories, which I can sum up each one as Brunner turns up and wins. The third one of the trilogy you could probably skip straight to, and not miss much with regards to what happened in the previous 2 parts.
I wasn't a fan of the Darkblade books (the first lot are pretty awful); the Gotrex and Felix books are ok, except it's getting rather silly with regards to what is thrown at them. Each book has to throw something bigger at them each time, but if it carries on like it is now, they're going to have to go up against a Chaos god.
Also, Thanquol comes across like a cartoon villian; very "next time Gadget" in those books. They're probably trying to redeem this in the Thanquol and Boneripper books.
I've not read the Time of legends books.
If you wanted good gritty fantasy books, I'd point you in the direction of the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie (check out his online blog at the very least).
Or you could try Retribution Falls which I could describe as a steam punk version of Firefly.
If you do not like Skavenslayer then you have no soul.
The Jack Yeovil Warhammer novels are the best though, if just for the last movie/history homaging. Beasts in Velvet is my favourite.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
they're just like, rat dudes?
I see the merit in both points, just wondering if there is a set 'history' for the fantasy setting.
Working as intended?
It has less to do with "rat" and more to do with "vast conspiracy that's convinced the world's biggest nation that they are a fairytale and steal children from beds and have steampunk lasers and gatling guns and shit".
Imagine, for example, if you found out that, not only was Bigfoot real, but there were millions of Bigfoots living in secret bases underneath our cities. This Bigfoot nation would have unreliable but super advanced technology like teleporters and shit and would be an "open secret" in the highest levels of government, kept supressed because of fear and Bigfoot-bribed invidividuals actively working to supress knowledge of Bigfoots. Also the Bigfoots are megalomaniacal and delusional and believe they will rule the world someday.
The big points and look are the closest thing to canon for both 40k and WFB. I think I've posted this before, but GW's own words on the concept:
For what it's worth, I found the writing in Eisenhorn to be waaaay better than Gotrek & Felix.
Yeah, I think Abnett (Eisenhorn, etc) is probably the best technical author BL has currently. Watson, Newman/Yeovil as well.
King, I think, is prone to very purple prose and cliche repetition, but his characters are engaging and entertaining in a cartoony way. His work really makes me think of tentpole Summer movies.
As a whole, I really like old school pulpy sword-and-sorcery. Having read Howard and Lovecraft and the like over and over again, BL books are just about the only option to get more, with added benefit that the settings are cool.
Less Fantasy fluff, moar Tyranids.
Pleasantly enough, I don't think there's much similarity between GW chaos and Moorcock chaos. Way back when I started learning about Warhammer and saw the 8 pointed star, my alarm bells started going off.
This would be amazingly fun to use in a video game.
And yeah, other than the symbol itself (which *apparently* Moorcock kind of created) GW Chaos is much more focused on destroying the world than opposing Order. Their Chaos is more like Moorcock's Chaos that's been corrupted by sentient beings' egos.
Moorcock absolutely hates GW though (despite working with them in the 80's). His phrase is, I think, "consumate rip-off artists".
:^:
Yeah, at this point I'm hoping for a Planetside style game. Hopefully being the first MMO-Shooter in years to not use the Unreal engine will allow them to actually have wide open battlefields where titans and vehicles roam.
I'm still waiting for Darksiders to come out on Steam so I can get a feel for their work. Anyone who's played the game on the 360 have any insights?