Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I saw a csi once...
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I'm going to believe the police's report over some guy on the internet's wild conjecture.
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I saw a csi once...
Find me a reflection and enhance the image.
"Looks like Rep Cantor just had someone give him a piercing argument."
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
If the bullet's even on the slightest bit of arc on the way up, it can keep its spiral motion going on the way back down and come in at high speeds. People have been killed by being in the place where the bullet comes down.
(They tested it on Mythbusters, by the way. The bullet loses its arc if it truly is fired straight up, but a little bit of angle...)
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds
This sounds to me like they think the bullet did in fact strike the window on its downward arc, which would suggest to me that this was an accident. I don't see how else to reasonably interpret "a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction," unless is that all bullets are technically fired "into the air." But that would be a very confusing choice of words on their part.
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I saw a csi once...
Find me a reflection and enhance the image.
Every time someone reads this one (spoilered for long) God makes a kitten sneeze or do something silly.
Hold on, why are we jumping to the conclusion that the bullet was fired up in the air and then arced downwards ... as opposed to being fired in a straight line from an elevated position?
The "arcing" scenario seems absolutely absurd on the face of it.
It's absurd if you continue to assume it was on purpose. Not sure if that's what you mean.
It's unlikely that a round would come down into this guy's window, because I doubt many people fire guns into the air on a regular basis, even in VA. But that doesn't make it impossible. Stranger things have happened.
Which also isn't to say that we should dismiss there being intent, it just looks like, from the limited evidence we've heard so far, that it was unintentional.
If you think "someone shot the gun up into the air and the bullet arced down and hit this window" is a better interpretation of the evidence than "someone shot at the window from an elevated position," I seriously, seriously hope you are not working in crime scene investigation or law enforcement.
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I saw a csi once...
Find me a reflection and enhance the image.
"Looks like Rep Cantor just had someone give him a piercing argument."
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
If the bullet's even on the slightest bit of arc on the way up, it can keep its spiral motion going on the way back down and come in at high speeds. People have been killed by being in the place where the bullet comes down.
(They tested it on Mythbusters, by the way. The bullet loses its arc if it truly is fired straight up, but a little bit of angle...)
I think the incredulity comes from wondering if it had enough lateral motion to clear the building's eaves/gutters/whatever and still hit the window hard enough to break it and land inside.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I'd guess that almost any round bigger than a .22 falling from the kind of height it would get to when fired into the sky would come back down with some considerable fuckin' force.
Any of those possibilities is infinitely more likely than a person randomly firing a gun up into the air and having the bullet's trajectory arc back downwards into the window of a building that just so happens to be a prominent GOP politician on a night that just so happens to follow the GOP's embarrassing failure. I mean come on.
Unlikely but if you think back to Mythbusters episode 50 then you would remembers the real life cases of people struck by falling bullets, including a woman who was hit by a gun fired 1.5 miles away. It's screamingly unlikely but it could happen.
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I'm going to believe the police's report over some guy on the internet's wild conjecture.
I don't know Richmond very well; are there any taller buildings around Cantor's office? Or, was there a helicopter around there dispensing bullets and folksy winking gibberish about failure to stop socialism?
Those are the only two scenarios I can think of for a direct shot.
Was he using some weird ascii character and I never noticed, or was the profile outright nuked from orbit?
Anyway, the bullet sounds like too much of a coincidence, but with the evidence given, it seems like just that. The white powder, cut gas line and whatnot, however, I find to be of great concern.
Moreso that I imagine these won't be the last we hear of such actions.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds
This sounds to me like they think the bullet did in fact strike the window on its downward arc, which would suggest to me that this was an accident. I don't see how else to reasonably interpret "a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction," unless is that all bullets are technically fired "into the air." But that would be a very confusing choice of words on their part.
Downward direction =/= downward "arc"
It is far more likely that the police report is confusingly worded than that the situation took place as we are all speculating
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I'm going to believe the police's report over some guy on the internet's wild conjecture.
I don't know Richmond very well; are there any taller buildings around Cantor's office? Or, was there a helicopter around there dispensing bullets and folksy winking gibberish about failure to stop socialism?
Those are the only two scenarios I can think of for a direct shot.
I don't know where cantors office is, but richmond has buildings of various heights.
Any of those possibilities is infinitely more likely than a person randomly firing a gun up into the air and having the bullet's trajectory arc back downwards into the window of a building that just so happens to be a prominent GOP politician on a night that just so happens to follow the GOP's embarrassing failure. I mean come on.
Unlikely but if you think back to Mythbusters episode 50 then you would remembers the real life cases of people struck by falling bullets, including a woman who was hit by a gun fired 1.5 miles away. It's screamingly unlikely but it could happen.
Any of those possibilities is infinitely more likely than a person randomly firing a gun up into the air and having the bullet's trajectory arc back downwards into the window of a building that just so happens to be a prominent GOP politician on a night that just so happens to follow the GOP's embarrassing failure. I mean come on.
Unlikely but if you think back to Mythbusters episode 50 then you would remembers the real life cases of people struck by falling bullets, including a woman who was hit by a gun fired 1.5 miles away. It's screamingly unlikely but it could happen.
Hold on, why are we jumping to the conclusion that the bullet was fired up in the air and then arced downwards ... as opposed to being fired in a straight line from an elevated position?
The "arcing" scenario seems absolutely absurd on the face of it.
It's absurd if you continue to assume it was on purpose. Not sure if that's what you mean.
It's unlikely that a round would come down into this guy's window, because I doubt many people fire guns into the air on a regular basis, even in VA. But that doesn't make it impossible. Stranger things have happened.
Which also isn't to say that we should dismiss there being intent, it just looks like, from the limited evidence we've heard so far, that it was unintentional.
If you think "someone shot the gun up into the air and the bullet arced down and hit this window" is a better interpretation of the evidence than "someone shot at the window from an elevated position," I seriously, seriously hope you are not working in crime scene investigation or law enforcement.
The police press release says that their suspicion is that a gun was "fired into the air." Why is it so absurd to think that it was fired up and the bullet hit the window on the way down? Certainly not so absurd so as to justify your apparent position of "I disagree with that interpretation so you're too stupid to be a cop."
Now maybe the police suspicion is wrong, or they modify it later, or the press release had some confusing phrasing. But you fire a round into the air, it comes back down and it's gotta hit something.
I almost hope it was a Democrat who did that one, because if a Republican/Tea Partier pulled that one, it would so facepalmingly stupid I'd need surgery.
If you take a look (via maps.google.com) at the area or the building that I think we're looking for there are some taller homes across the street. I wish I could see the numbers on the buildings though, because I'm not sure of what I'm looking at.
The police press release says that their suspicion is that a gun was "fired into the air." Why is it so absurd to think that it was fired up and the bullet hit the window on the way down? Certainly not so absurd so as to justify your apparent position of "I disagree with that interpretation so you're too stupid to be a cop."
Now maybe the police suspicion is wrong, or they modify it later, or the press release had some confusing phrasing. But you fire a round into the air, it comes back down and it's gotta hit something.
But the scenario you describe is so unlikely, and would be such a coincidence in light of the heated political climate and similar acts going around, that it is a simpler explanation that the police report is just worded poorly.
If the bullet turns out to have been fired by some random Palestinian immigrant wedding party 2 miles away I will eat my cat.
Qingu on
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
Unless the vandal was a computer, the odds of someone intentionally firing a round and hitting something on the downward arc is nil. Rounds can travel long distances, it was likely from an unrelated incident.
What are the odds of anyone's window being shattered from a bullet arcing downwards from being fired into the air? Has that happened, ever?
I saw a csi once...
Find me a reflection and enhance the image.
"Looks like Rep Cantor just had someone give him a piercing argument."
The police press release says that their suspicion is that a gun was "fired into the air." Why is it so absurd to think that it was fired up and the bullet hit the window on the way down? Certainly not so absurd so as to justify your apparent position of "I disagree with that interpretation so you're too stupid to be a cop."
Now maybe the police suspicion is wrong, or they modify it later, or the press release had some confusing phrasing. But you fire a round into the air, it comes back down and it's gotta hit something.
But the scenario you describe is so unlikely, and would be such a coincidence in light of the heated political climate and similar acts going around, that it is a simpler explanation that the police report is just worded poorly.
If the bullet turns out to have been fired by some random Palestinian immigrant wedding party 2 miles away I will eat my cat.
hey remember when they found that census worker hung on a tree with fed written on him and everyone said there is no way it was suicide that was ridiculous i mean clearly he was killed by tea baggers or maybe meth heads
I'd only be incredulous if it turned out that the person actually intended to hit that very window, and miraculously did it.
It's much easier to believe that a bullet was fired randomly into the air and happened to hit a building (in the window even!), which had a link to a politician during a period of tension.
You and I can assign meaning to that all we want, but I don't see why it's hard to believe that it might've just been a coincidence.
But again, without a better idea of the topography of the area, it's pretty hard to say, and even if it were intentional, doing so from such a distance that the bullet had lost most of its momentum would make it a pretty damned impressive shot.
Like, a sniper firing with the shitiest handgun known to man, or something.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
hey remember when they found that census worker hung on a tree with fed written on him and everyone said there is no way it was suicide that was ridiculous i mean clearly he was killed by tea baggers or maybe meth heads
remember that
The scenario of someone committing suicide in a theatrical manner is several orders of magnitude more likely than a bullet fired into the air falling in an arc into the window of a GOP congressman.
Edit: I'm not actually going to eat my cat if I am wrong because he is the fluffiest, but I am willing to stake my whole reputation on this forum as a coldly and handsomely rational person of supernal intellect and logical utility.
Qingu on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
hey remember when they found that census worker hung on a tree with fed written on him and everyone said there is no way it was suicide that was ridiculous i mean clearly he was killed by tea baggers or maybe meth heads
remember that
The scenario of someone committing suicide in a theatrical manner is several orders of magnitude more likely than a bullet fired into the air falling in an arc into the window of a GOP congressman.
No, it's pretty ridiculous to believe that someone firing a bullet either
A) fired by such a length away that the bullet lost all momentum that it only shattered a window but couldn't break through the blinds and landed harmlessly along the window-sill, blinds perfectly safe
or
2) fired at such an extreme angle that it only hit the window and not the blinds behind it
That is pretty ridiculous. It is much easier to believe that some hillbilly fired his gun into the air and by a strange coincidence hit a random window
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
If the bullet were fired from a higher elevation, then it would have been going downward at a speed much faster than terminal velocity and probably would've shot through at least part of the floor. No comment was made to that end in the report.
If the bullet were fired from a level elevation, then it would have been going laterally at near its firing speed, and would have had enough momentum to pierce ANY other wall in the building, to some degree. This happens all the time -- a child in Chicago was killed in her home by a drive-by shooter who missed. Note that in the police report, no comment was made about any walls being damaged. The bullet ended up on the floor, with no damage to the blinds.
If the bullet were fired near-straight up, then it would be falling at terminal velocity, which is still fast enough to shatter a non-reinforced window. Assuming double-paned (it's VA, it gets cold, so it is at least double-paned), then the glass would have two opportunities to slow the bullet even further. This fits the police report.
Given the complexities of indirect fire that anyone in the military can tell you (again, watch the Mythbusters about firing bullets into the air), predicting wind speed through all the layers of the atmosphere is nigh impossible. It would take extreme prep time and a healthy dose of luck to pull this off. So while it is possible that someone intentionally shot a bullet up to arc it into this window, it is incredibly improbable.
Finally, there is the fact that the Senator didn't report this until now, nor did any of the major media outlets pick up on it. The first mention of it was linking it to the Democrats in a discussion of "inciting violence." If he thought there was political capital in using that attack before now, then he would have done it.
To be quite frank, I would say the chances of this being a bullet fired into the air in celebration/anger over the HCR to be more likely than it being fired intentionally at the office as a form of domestic terrorism.
Like, a sniper firing with the shitiest handgun known to man, or something.
He used a Klobb from GoldenEye?!
Yes, yes. It's a submachine gun. I know. I just always hated that thing.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
I think the point of contention people have is that the police say it was fired into the air first. They're saying maybe it wasn't, because they think it's too unlikely that a round randomly fired into the air would hit that specific person's window, and that it's more likely that the preliminary report is worded poorly.
It could really go either way with the very little detail we have right now. Wait for the ballistics report to come out before you unpack the Outrage.
Posts
I saw a csi once...
pleasepaypreacher.net
Find me a reflection and enhance the image.
I'm going to believe the police's report over some guy on the internet's wild conjecture.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
"Looks like Rep Cantor just had someone give him a piercing argument."
pleasepaypreacher.net
If the bullet's even on the slightest bit of arc on the way up, it can keep its spiral motion going on the way back down and come in at high speeds. People have been killed by being in the place where the bullet comes down.
(They tested it on Mythbusters, by the way. The bullet loses its arc if it truly is fired straight up, but a little bit of angle...)
This sounds to me like they think the bullet did in fact strike the window on its downward arc, which would suggest to me that this was an accident. I don't see how else to reasonably interpret "a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction," unless is that all bullets are technically fired "into the air." But that would be a very confusing choice of words on their part.
Every time someone reads this one (spoilered for long) God makes a kitten sneeze or do something silly.
YEEEAAAAAHHHHHHH
I think the incredulity comes from wondering if it had enough lateral motion to clear the building's eaves/gutters/whatever and still hit the window hard enough to break it and land inside.
I'd guess that almost any round bigger than a .22 falling from the kind of height it would get to when fired into the sky would come back down with some considerable fuckin' force.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
Unlikely but if you think back to Mythbusters episode 50 then you would remembers the real life cases of people struck by falling bullets, including a woman who was hit by a gun fired 1.5 miles away. It's screamingly unlikely but it could happen.
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_50_bullets_fired_up_vo.html
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I don't know Richmond very well; are there any taller buildings around Cantor's office? Or, was there a helicopter around there dispensing bullets and folksy winking gibberish about failure to stop socialism?
Those are the only two scenarios I can think of for a direct shot.
I also thought banned people still showed up on the member list (someone kindly correct me if I'm wrong), but plains "Obs" isn't here;
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/memberlist.php?&pp=100&order=asc&sort=username<r=O
Was he using some weird ascii character and I never noticed, or was the profile outright nuked from orbit?
Anyway, the bullet sounds like too much of a coincidence, but with the evidence given, it seems like just that. The white powder, cut gas line and whatnot, however, I find to be of great concern.
Moreso that I imagine these won't be the last we hear of such actions.
It is far more likely that the police report is confusingly worded than that the situation took place as we are all speculating
I don't know where cantors office is, but richmond has buildings of various heights.
It's difficult to take this seriously after I misread his name as "wiener queen".
Seriously.
Unless someone is familiar with the area, firing from a higher building with a crappy weapon seems the most likely explanation.
True, but the guy probably hasn't stated that he is Obs. Until he does, all you can do is to suspect him to be.
The police press release says that their suspicion is that a gun was "fired into the air." Why is it so absurd to think that it was fired up and the bullet hit the window on the way down? Certainly not so absurd so as to justify your apparent position of "I disagree with that interpretation so you're too stupid to be a cop."
Now maybe the police suspicion is wrong, or they modify it later, or the press release had some confusing phrasing. But you fire a round into the air, it comes back down and it's gotta hit something.
I almost hope it was a Democrat who did that one, because if a Republican/Tea Partier pulled that one, it would so facepalmingly stupid I'd need surgery.
... fair.
If the bullet turns out to have been fired by some random Palestinian immigrant wedding party 2 miles away I will eat my cat.
/sunglasses on
hey remember when they found that census worker hung on a tree with fed written on him and everyone said there is no way it was suicide that was ridiculous i mean clearly he was killed by tea baggers or maybe meth heads
remember that
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's much easier to believe that a bullet was fired randomly into the air and happened to hit a building (in the window even!), which had a link to a politician during a period of tension.
You and I can assign meaning to that all we want, but I don't see why it's hard to believe that it might've just been a coincidence.
But again, without a better idea of the topography of the area, it's pretty hard to say, and even if it were intentional, doing so from such a distance that the bullet had lost most of its momentum would make it a pretty damned impressive shot.
Like, a sniper firing with the shitiest handgun known to man, or something.
He's bulletproof
He totally could've made that shot.
Edit: I'm not actually going to eat my cat if I am wrong because he is the fluffiest, but I am willing to stake my whole reputation on this forum as a coldly and handsomely rational person of supernal intellect and logical utility.
Nope, he's been banned so many times I think a lot of the mods have sixth sense about spotting him. Time will tell.
No, it's pretty ridiculous to believe that someone firing a bullet either
A) fired by such a length away that the bullet lost all momentum that it only shattered a window but couldn't break through the blinds and landed harmlessly along the window-sill, blinds perfectly safe
or
2) fired at such an extreme angle that it only hit the window and not the blinds behind it
That is pretty ridiculous. It is much easier to believe that some hillbilly fired his gun into the air and by a strange coincidence hit a random window
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
If the bullet were fired from a level elevation, then it would have been going laterally at near its firing speed, and would have had enough momentum to pierce ANY other wall in the building, to some degree. This happens all the time -- a child in Chicago was killed in her home by a drive-by shooter who missed. Note that in the police report, no comment was made about any walls being damaged. The bullet ended up on the floor, with no damage to the blinds.
If the bullet were fired near-straight up, then it would be falling at terminal velocity, which is still fast enough to shatter a non-reinforced window. Assuming double-paned (it's VA, it gets cold, so it is at least double-paned), then the glass would have two opportunities to slow the bullet even further. This fits the police report.
Given the complexities of indirect fire that anyone in the military can tell you (again, watch the Mythbusters about firing bullets into the air), predicting wind speed through all the layers of the atmosphere is nigh impossible. It would take extreme prep time and a healthy dose of luck to pull this off. So while it is possible that someone intentionally shot a bullet up to arc it into this window, it is incredibly improbable.
Finally, there is the fact that the Senator didn't report this until now, nor did any of the major media outlets pick up on it. The first mention of it was linking it to the Democrats in a discussion of "inciting violence." If he thought there was political capital in using that attack before now, then he would have done it.
To be quite frank, I would say the chances of this being a bullet fired into the air in celebration/anger over the HCR to be more likely than it being fired intentionally at the office as a form of domestic terrorism.
He used a Klobb from GoldenEye?!
It could really go either way with the very little detail we have right now. Wait for the ballistics report to come out before you unpack the Outrage.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov