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Right-Wing Extremism

ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
edited April 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
I don't know if anyone else caught the news about the guys out of Michigan:
WASHINGTON — Nine members of a Michigan-based Christian militia group have been indicted on sedition and weapons charges in connection with an alleged plot to murder law enforcement officers in hopes of setting off an anti-government uprising.

In court filings unsealed Monday, the Justice Department accused the nine people of planning to kill an unidentified law enforcement officer, then plant improvised explosive devices of a type used by insurgents in Iraq to attack the funeral procession.

Eight of the defendants were arrested over the weekend in raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. A ninth remained at large, the Justice Department said. The indictments against them were returned last Tuesday. The defendants were identified as members of Hutaree, described by federal prosecutors as an anti-government extremist organization based in Lenawee County, Michigan, and which advocates violence against local, state and federal law enforcement. The group saw local and state police as “foot soldiers” for the federal government, which it viewed as its enemy, along with participants in what they deemed to be a “New World Order,” according to the indictment.

“This is an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society,” Andrew Arena, Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent in Charge in Detroit, said in a statement. “The F.B.I. takes such extremist groups seriously, especially those who would target innocent citizens and the law enforcement officers who protect the citizens of the United States.”

A law enforcement official said that the alleged plot was unconnected to recent threats against Democratic members of Congress who voted for legislation overhauling the nation’s health care system.

A Web site for the Hutaree group talks about a coming battle against the putative forces of the Anti-Christ and hosts an “evil Jews Forum,” but does not appear to focus explicitly on recent political events.

The Web site, which describes the group as “preparing for the end times,” featured video clips of people running through woods in camouflage gear and firing assault rifles, along with links to gun stores and far-right media. It also features an elaborate system of military ranks for its members. The site says it coined the term Hutaree, intended to mean Christian warrior.

“Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment,” the Web site says, adding, “The Hutaree will one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield if so God wills it.”

The indictment charged that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants — led by David Brian Stone, 45, who also used the name “Captain Hutaree” — developed a conspiracy that they hoped would result in a war against the United States government. They allegedly decided they would kill a local law enforcement officer, and then bomb the funeral caravan. The killings “would intimidate and demoralize law enforcement diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective,” it said.

Afterward, the indictment said, Hutaree members would retreat to several “rally points” and wage war against the government, using prepared fighting positions as well as “trip-wired and command-detonated” bombs.

“It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-spread uprising against the government,” the indictment said.

Mr. Stone used the Internet to obtain diagrams of “explosively formed projectiles,” a particularly lethal form of roadside bombs responsible for many deaths of United States soldiers in Iraq, the indictment says.

It says that he e-mailed diagrams of such devices to a person he believed to be capable of manufacturing them, and then directed one of his sons to obtain the materials to make them. It also says he and his other son taught other Hutaree members how to make bombs in June 2009.

Barbara McQuade, the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, said the government moved to arrest the members of the group this past weekend to short-circuit some operation it had planned to do next month, and which she did not explain detail.

“Because the Hutaree had planned a covert reconnaissance operation for April which had the potential of placing an unsuspecting member of the public at risk, the safety of the public and of the law enforcement community demanded intervention at this time.”

All nine people face the charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction, and carrying a firearm during a crime of violence. In addition, Mr. Stone and one of his sons, David Brian Stone Jr., has been charged with teaching the use of explosive materials.
These guys are obviously batshit fucking crazy. However, is this the future of terrorism in the U.S.? The Republican party doesn't seem too terribly concerned about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqi-DRbt69o

So, is this just a false alarm? Are people overreacting? Or is the GOP not realizing/not caring that their politicking--which they may see as just scoring cheap political points, driving up turnout--is putting real peoples' lives in danger?

Thanatos on
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Posts

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2010
    Christian militia members need to read the Sermon on the Mount.

    _J_ on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Isolated incident, both parties are the same, etc, etc.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Solomaxwell6 on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Or is the GOP not realizing/not caring that their politicking--which they may see as just scoring cheap political points, driving up turnout--is putting real peoples' lives in danger?

    The GOP loves their mythos of personal responsibility - that an individual alone is culpable for his or her actions; that there is no connect between a person's deeds and the social or historical context in which they live. They'll fundamental attribution error all day long.

    Consequently, if a nutjob flies a plane into an IRS building, he did that because he's a nutjob... not because there were social forces influencing that nutjob's behavior. (Social forces including, of course, the GOP's own rhetoric.)

    Naturally this is a very convenient worldview for those in power - as it allows them to enjoy the fruits of their power as theirs and theirs alone while simultaneously disavowing the part they play in keeping the powerless subjugated. It also allows them to handwave away any deleterious effects of their speech or actions upon the population.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.
    The GOP has been trading pretty much solely on insecurity and violent rhetoric for two years now. The Tea Parties are a symptom of that, not the genesis of this brand of extremism.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The Catch-22 is that while the increase in dangerous fringe militias is on the rise and they need to be taken care of is that this (and any subsequent) raids and arrests on militia members are just going to drive the other militias around the country into a conspiracy-laden froth and put them all on edge.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?
    Even if we want to leave them out, we've got a political environment that's saturated with elected GOP leaders throwing around words like "tyranny" and "socialism" and making Mao and Hitler comparisons.

    If it's not directly malicious it's at least horribly irresponsible.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • krushkrush Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    can't say I didn't see something like this coming. I honestly thought that the GOP rhetoric would manifest itself against a different target though, not random law enforcement figures.

    krush on
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?
    Even if we want to leave them out, we've got a political environment that's saturated with elected GOP leaders throwing around words like "tyranny" and "socialism" and making Mao and Hitler comparisons.

    If it's not directly malicious it's at least horribly irresponsible.

    Don't forget advocating, on national television, to not fill out the Census.

    Narian on
    Narian.gif
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The Catch-22 is that while the increase in dangerous fringe militias is on the rise and they need to be taken care of is that this (and any subsequent) raids and arrests on militia members are just going to drive the other militias around the country into a conspiracy-laden froth and put them all on edge.
    But you can't just let them go, either. I'd rather they were cracking down hard on these people before something actually happens than having one of these groups succeed in taking American lives and force a cascade of negative consequences.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    The Tea Party is the GOP, rebranded.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Narian wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?
    Even if we want to leave them out, we've got a political environment that's saturated with elected GOP leaders throwing around words like "tyranny" and "socialism" and making Mao and Hitler comparisons.

    If it's not directly malicious it's at least horribly irresponsible.

    Don't forget advocating, on national television, to not fill out the Census.
    This I find more funny than threatening. Even though it's obviously and stupidly anti-government.

    I seriously hope they redistrict themselves right out of office.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    krush wrote: »
    can't say I didn't see something like this coming. I honestly thought that the GOP rhetoric would manifest itself against a different target though, not random law enforcement figures.

    Maybe it was just the build up to something bigger?

    I don't see how this is all that different from the multiple incidents that occurred in the '90s. Weren't most of those right wing extremist groups?

    L Ron Howard on
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    The Tea Party is the GOP, rebranded.

    The GOP is distinct from the Tea Party. However, any person who is remotely enthusiastic about the GOP's platform (such as it is) has gone over to the Tea Party, so the GOP is at best inept and at worst irrelevant without the Tea Party, so they keep coming back like an abused housewife.

    Jragghen on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.
    The main Teabagger group is FreedomWorks, headed by Dick Armey. You might recognize that name, as 1) it's hilarious, and 2) he used to be the House Majority Leader under Newt Gingrich.

    The GOP is a huge driving force behind the Teabagging movement.

    Thanatos on
  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?
    Even if we want to leave them out, we've got a political environment that's saturated with elected GOP leaders throwing around words like "tyranny" and "socialism" and making Mao and Hitler comparisons.

    If it's not directly malicious it's at least horribly irresponsible.

    Don't forget advocating, on national television, to not fill out the Census.
    This I find more funny than threatening. Even though it's obviously and stupidly anti-government.

    I seriously hope they redistrict themselves right out of office.

    There's also Boehner, the House Minority Leader, saying the health care reform bill is "armageddon" and that it will "ruin our country".

    Dashui on
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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dashui wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    This I find more funny than threatening. Even though it's obviously and stupidly anti-government.

    I seriously hope they redistrict themselves right out of office.
    There's also Boehner, the House Minority Leader, saying the health care reform bill is "armageddon" and that it will "ruin our country".
    In his defense, he only said that after he discovered the 10% tanning bed tax, which will actually increase the amount of taxes he owes to a level higher than his income.

    Thanatos on
  • krushkrush Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    krush wrote: »
    can't say I didn't see something like this coming. I honestly thought that the GOP rhetoric would manifest itself against a different target though, not random law enforcement figures.

    Maybe it was just the build up to something bigger?

    I don't see how this is all that different from the multiple incidents that occurred in the '90s. Weren't most of those right wing extremist groups?

    yes, this is true (except the first WTC bombing).

    However, with all the racist hate talk spewing out of the pundits collective mouths, I figured it would be the pres himself in danger, not a beat cop.

    unless the beat cop was to test the resolve of the members of this right-wing group, then I see where they were going with it.

    krush on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The indictment charged that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants — led by David Brian Stone, 45, who also used the name “Captain Hutaree” — developed a conspiracy that they hoped would result in a war against the United States government. They allegedly decided they would kill a local law enforcement officer, and then bomb the funeral caravan. The killings “would intimidate and demoralize law enforcement diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective,” it said.
    The "Tea Partiers are to blame" narrative kind of falls apart since it turns out these guys have been planning an insurrection since at least the Bush presidency.

    Potentially voiolent anti-government groups have been around in this country since the first clandestine Tory cabal plotted on how to bring the 13 Colonies back under British rule.

    Modern Man on
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  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yar on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?
    Even if we want to leave them out, we've got a political environment that's saturated with elected GOP leaders throwing around words like "tyranny" and "socialism" and making Mao and Hitler comparisons.

    If it's not directly malicious it's at least horribly irresponsible.

    Don't forget advocating, on national television, to not fill out the Census.
    This I find more funny than threatening. Even though it's obviously and stupidly anti-government.

    I seriously hope they redistrict themselves right out of office.

    Hooray!

    SyphonBlue on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    krush wrote: »
    can't say I didn't see something like this coming. I honestly thought that the GOP rhetoric would manifest itself against a different target though, not random law enforcement figures.

    Maybe it was just the build up to something bigger?

    I don't see how this is all that different from the multiple incidents that occurred in the '90s. Weren't most of those right wing extremist groups?

    This whole thing is basically mid 90s (Democrats cannot legitimately run the country) + high unemployment making people more susceptible to crazy.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yeah, what have right-wing extremists ever done?
    408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg

    Jragghen on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2010
    If you wanted to press the issue, recommending that people not participate in the census could be seen as a breach of the Oath of Office congress-critters take.

    "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

    Guess what is mandated by the Constitution.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    The Tea Party is the GOP, rebranded.

    The GOP is distinct from the Tea Party. However, any person who is remotely enthusiastic about the GOP's platform (such as it is) has gone over to the Tea Party, so the GOP is at best inept and at worst irrelevant without the Tea Party, so they keep coming back like an abused housewife.

    This. The GOP's extreme rhetoric (combined with a healthy dose of racism) spawned the popularity of the Tea Party, and their hardon for "my way or the highway" exclusions of anyone who steps out of line (see David Frum) has transformed their reliable base into Tea Partiers. Moderate Republicans are driven away from the party, and extremists are cocooned in their own little bubble where all they can hear is their own manufactured outrage. The GOP is nothing without the Tea Party now - they made their bed and now they're shackled to it.

    KalTorak on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.
    Yeah, that Oklahoma City Federal Building was just a goof.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'd say being upset about thousands of americans being drafted and killed in vietnam (the catalyst for left wing terrorism back in the good old days) is a bit more justified than being upset that...

    well I'm not sure what they're upset about, the majority of them aren't seeing a tax increase? I mean they have these vague notions of socialism to be afraid of, but nothing really substantial.

    Not to defend the 70s crazies but those guys were acting irrationally on the basis a rational hatred (I'd include many militant muslim groups in this, but the bulk of them are acting with religious rather than political motivation)

    override367 on
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yeah, what have right-wing extremists ever done?
    408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg
    Yeah, good point, but he was more of a lone anarchist thatn a right-wing extremist group, right? I mean, I classify him more as a really bad version of going postal.

    Yar on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'd say being upset about thousands of americans being drafted and killed in vietnam (the catalyst for left wing terrorism back in the good old days) is a bit more justified than being upset that...

    well I'm not sure what they're upset about, the majority of them aren't seeing a tax increase? I mean they have these vague notions of socialism to be afraid of, but nothing really substantial.

    Not to defend the 70s crazies but those guys were acting irrationally on the basis a rational hatred (I'd include many militant muslim groups in this, but the bulk of them are acting with religious rather than political motivation)

    They're upset that black people are getting stuff.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Eh. I'd say the Tea Party is distinct enough from the GOP. Blame the Teabaggers if anything. The GOP as a whole has nothing to do with this.

    Are you going to attempt to argue that the punditry - notably Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly - are not key members of the GOP?
    Even if we want to leave them out, we've got a political environment that's saturated with elected GOP leaders throwing around words like "tyranny" and "socialism" and making Mao and Hitler comparisons.

    If it's not directly malicious it's at least horribly irresponsible.

    Don't forget advocating, on national television, to not fill out the Census.
    This I find more funny than threatening. Even though it's obviously and stupidly anti-government.

    I seriously hope they redistrict themselves right out of office.

    Hooray!
    If we can seriously start taking electoral votes away from Texas, that would be great.

    Hell, they should send people door to door down there "recalling" "faulty" census forms.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yeah, what have right-wing extremists ever done?
    408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg
    Yeah, good point, but he was more of a lone anarchist thatn a right-wing extremist group, right? I mean, I classify him more as a really bad version of going postal.

    Yeah, he and his accomplice who is currently rotting in federal prison, both members of the Michigan militia, were totally lone anarchists. Yep.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    When does the census data come into effect?

    In time for the 2012 election?

    Hoz on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The Catch-22 is that while the increase in dangerous fringe militias is on the rise and they need to be taken care of is that this (and any subsequent) raids and arrests on militia members are just going to drive the other militias around the country into a conspiracy-laden froth and put them all on edge.
    But you can't just let them go, either. I'd rather they were cracking down hard on these people before something actually happens than having one of these groups succeed in taking American lives and force a cascade of negative consequences.

    That's the Catch-22. You can't let them just go, but every time you deal with them, the remaining groups are going to perceive it as signs that the Administration is starting to do the things that everyone has lied they will do.

    DarkPrimus on
    wpyz0Y5.png
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yeah, what have right-wing extremists ever done?
    408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg
    Yeah, good point, but he was more of a lone anarchist thatn a right-wing extremist group, right? I mean, I classify him more as a really bad version of going postal.
    He was linked to the Michigan Militia, along with Jose Padilla.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yeah, what have right-wing extremists ever done?
    408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg
    Yeah, good point, but he was more of a lone anarchist thatn a right-wing extremist group, right? I mean, I classify him more as a really bad version of going postal.

    Then you weren't paying attention. He wrote a farewell letter, expecting to die. Inside that letter it sounds like the prototype for the teabaggers rants. Going on about preventing us from becoming "Socialist Wannabe Slaves". And we wouldn't want to forget some of the other domestic terrorism that happened. Eric Robert Rudolph was the man who set off a bomb in an attempt to derail the Olympics. He followed that up with bombing a Lesbian night club and an Abortion clinic.

    Thomamelas on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The Catch-22 is that while the increase in dangerous fringe militias is on the rise and they need to be taken care of is that this (and any subsequent) raids and arrests on militia members are just going to drive the other militias around the country into a conspiracy-laden froth and put them all on edge.
    But you can't just let them go, either. I'd rather they were cracking down hard on these people before something actually happens than having one of these groups succeed in taking American lives and force a cascade of negative consequences.

    That's the Catch-22. You can't let them just go, but every time you deal with them, the remaining groups are going to perceive it as signs that the Administration is starting to do the things that everyone has lied they will do.

    The crazies are always going to believe they're right. The trick is getting more of the "on the fence" people to believe that the crazies are actually crazy.

    KalTorak on
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    can i recommend the latest podcast i listened to here for anyone interested?

    the 3/25 episode of Fresh Air: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124906766
    The story is "When Right-Wing Extremism Moves Mainstream" and the link above summaries and includes some interview highlights:
    On what he's heard coming out of Tea Party groups that reflects the ideology of extremist groups the Southern Poverty Law Center is monitoring

    "For instance, we have heard very frequently the talk about a so-called Reconquista. [It's] a secret plan on the part of Mexico to reconquer the American Southwest. In the same way, you go to some of these Tea Party events and other similar kinds of configurations and you will hear people talking about FEMA — the Federal Emergency Management Agency — secretly building and constructing a series of concentration camps in which to throw good patriotic Americans who resist the coming martial law and so on. So it's those kinds of ideas, and then more broadly, the idea that Obama is really a socialist, a Marxist. He is really setting up death panels to sort of murder our grandparents."

    On how some politicians are using the same rhetoric as the radical right

    "After a man flew a plane into an IRS building in Austin, Texas, [Rep.] Steve King, who's a Republican out of Iowa, basically excused the attacks. [He] said, 'Well, basically the IRS is a terrible thing. If it had been gotten rid of as I thought it should some years ago, this never would have happened' — which to me sounds an awful lot like saying, 'If that person wasn't standing in front of the murderer's gun, they never would have died.' "

    "In February we heard Tom Tancredo, a former congressman from Colorado. When he addressed the Tea Party convention in Nashville, Tenn., he made an incredibly off-color speech in which he talked about the problem: Obama was a socialist and so on. He was destroying the country. The problem was that fools had elected him and what we needed was a literacy test. And this, of course, in the context of attacking a black president. Given our history, where we had literacy tests for something like a century to keep black people from voting, I think that's plainly an openly racist attack."

    On how some Republican leaders influence the rhetoric

    "I think [fringe militia leaders] wouldn't have much influence if not for the aiding and abetting that they are getting from so many mainstream figures. I'm talking about the Tom Tancredos and the Michelle Bachmanns, the Lou Dobbs[es and] the Glenn Becks of the world. ... Glenn Beck of Fox News, of course, spent three shows speculating on whether or not it was so that FEMA had constructed a whole set of secret concentration camps. Ultimately, in his fourth show, he decided it was not true and quote-on-quote 'debunked' it. But the real point was that for three entire shows he hawked this point. And Glenn Beck has close to 3 million listeners, and a lot of those people follow him religiously — really believe that these things are true."

    Here is the full transcript: http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=124906766

    Informative and scary

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited March 2010

    All nine people face the charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction, and carrying a firearm during a crime of violence. In addition, Mr. Stone and one of his sons, David Brian Stone Jr., has been charged with teaching the use of explosive materials.

    I wasn't aware that was a crime, seems like you'd hit some 1st amendment issues with it.

    tinwhiskers on
    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yar wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Symbionese Liberation Army? The Peoples Temple?

    Whacko right-wing extremists haven't one-upped their left-wing counterparts of a few decades ago just yet. But certainly we need to keep our eyes peeled.

    Yeah, what have right-wing extremists ever done?
    408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg
    Yeah, good point, but he was more of a lone anarchist thatn a right-wing extremist group, right? I mean, I classify him more as a really bad version of going postal.

    Yeah, he and his accomplice who is currently rotting in federal prison, both members of the Michigan militia, were totally lone anarchists. Yep.

    Not to mention that inspiration for action was drawn from the Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
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