Booo roach nerf They're still really good early on though, especially with the changes to marauders. I'm kind of surprised that immortals haven't seen any nerfs though, those things are nasty.
Edit - and yeah, like 2-3 early void rays can melt buildings, even a hive/command center, especially a problem for zerg which tends to have little in the way of early antiair.
There should be plenty of things to discourage terran from massing nothing but marauders in the mid and end game. Anything that flies, immortals, charge zealots, cracklings, infestors, colossus, and some units I am sure I am forgetting.
Air-to-air units are bad against Marauders, as are Void Rays, a ton of immortals is okay versus Terran but far from ideal - once their shields are gone they take a ridiculous amount of damage from your marauders and go down hard. Colossus are decent, but only when there are 2 or 3 of them and when you can't just stim in close and rape them in a couple volleys (and when you haven't scouted it and built vikings to counter).
I'd like to see a video of equal supply armies of stimmed Marauders and charge Zealots going at it to see who wins. My money is on the Marauders.
Can't speak to lings and infestors though.
I do agree that Battlecruisers and Carriers are good against Marauders, so you have me there.
I'm trying to figure out how void rays, a unit that gets bonus damage against armored, are bad against marauders, a high health, armored target that can't shoot up.
Not saying that they are the most cost effective method, of course.
Edit: I guess they don't get a bonus at low charge against armored anymore, and now that there is no middle charge, it will be rough getting the highest level charge against them.
Roach and Hydralisk nerfs? Jesus. Way to gut the backbone of the Zerg army. The Marauder nerf is pretty small and nowhere near on the same scale as the Zerg nerfs. Void Ray nerfs make my heart swell with happiness though. Both the games I played against Protoss today they just straight up rushed Void Rays. Having said that I won and the strategy is kind of obvious now.
Seriously though, I don't get such massive Zerg nerfs. They weren't dominating the ladder and we used Roach/Hydra because the other stuff was bad not because Roach/Hydra was inherently overpowered. Lings (of either variety) don't last well beyond the early game, Infesters already got pummeled with nerfbat a couple of times and seeing an Ultralisk is like witnessing a total fucking eclipse.
I'm kind of curious on numbers on who is playing what on the ladders actually - I play as zerg, my last 10 matches were 7 protoss, 2 terran and 1 zerg player.
it feels to me like concussion its only real significant in the early game so this is kind of weird. I mean you'll still be kiting in mid game i guess so the upgrade will be worth it. it's an interesting change. we'll see.
Hooray it's real, now zealots aren't completely useless against terran in the early game now
What, u crazy son. Two zealots + stalkers + like 3 probes holds off early marauder aggression pretty well. Literally the last last ranked game I played I had a dude (who was top 10 in a competitive plat division so he wasn't a noob :P) go for a rax on 9 and skip getting marines just to get marauders out earlier, then tried to bunker rush me with a few marauders and that unit comp was able to repel it pretty well.
Roach and Hydralisk nerfs? Jesus. Way to gut the backbone of the Zerg army. The Marauder nerf is pretty small and nowhere near on the same scale as the Zerg nerfs. Void Ray nerfs make my heart swell with happiness though. Both the games I played against Protoss today they just straight up rushed Void Rays. Having said that I won and the strategy is kind of obvious now.
Seriously though, I don't get such massive Zerg nerfs. They weren't dominating the ladder and we used Roach/Hydra because the other stuff was bad not because Roach/Hydra was inherently overpowered. Lings (of either variety) don't last well beyond the early game, Infesters already got pummeled with nerfbat a couple of times and seeing an Ultralisk is like witnessing a total fucking eclipse.
Two armor on the roach was kind of crazy to be honest, not that it wasn't manageable but it made you just want to spam roaches. And going lings in zvz is becoming pretty popular and mutaling zvp is still pretty effective depending on the map.
Two armor on the roach was kind of crazy to be honest, not that it wasn't manageable but it made you just want to spam roaches. And going lings in zvz is becoming pretty popular and mutaling zvp is still pretty effective depending on the map.
I won my last two ZvZ games by going early lings to force my opponent to over-react with their own lings at which point I made a couple of banelings to finish the deal.
Roach and Hydralisk nerfs? Jesus. Way to gut the backbone of the Zerg army. The Marauder nerf is pretty small and nowhere near on the same scale as the Zerg nerfs. Void Ray nerfs make my heart swell with happiness though. Both the games I played against Protoss today they just straight up rushed Void Rays. Having said that I won and the strategy is kind of obvious now.
Seriously though, I don't get such massive Zerg nerfs. They weren't dominating the ladder and we used Roach/Hydra because the other stuff was bad not because Roach/Hydra was inherently overpowered. Lings (of either variety) don't last well beyond the early game, Infesters already got pummeled with nerfbat a couple of times and seeing an Ultralisk is like witnessing a total fucking eclipse.
What are Banshees useful for? I've been playing strictly Terran for the past 13 games and I've yet to build one. MMM is just too tempting.
From what I've seen people have been using them with some success to kill/harass worker lines. With both cloak and a high damage they are pretty well suited for it.
you can rush banshees and harass before he might have a chance to get any decent anti air.
then when you're done harassing you can usually keep him stuck in his base for a while longer for fear of more harassment/getting destroyed if he moves out without sufficient anti air.
What are Banshees useful for? I've been playing strictly Terran for the past 13 games and I've yet to build one. MMM is just too tempting.
Killing things that can't shoot up. Harassing workers. Punishing people for not having detectors (if you have cloak) but what they are probably best at is blowing up pylons.
What are Banshees useful for? I've been playing strictly Terran for the past 13 games and I've yet to build one. MMM is just too tempting.
Long range air-to-ground unit with optional cloaking. More durable than they look. Decent support, great for unit sniping and base harassment, fast banshees can win games. Brutal if used with proper micro near cliffs or bad terrain as they can use their range to pummel ground troops that can barely fire back. Solid infantry killer, no AtA and has trouble against durable GtA, especially in the open.
Roach and Hydralisk nerfs? Jesus. Way to gut the backbone of the Zerg army. The Marauder nerf is pretty small and nowhere near on the same scale as the Zerg nerfs. Void Ray nerfs make my heart swell with happiness though. Both the games I played against Protoss today they just straight up rushed Void Rays. Having said that I won and the strategy is kind of obvious now.
Seriously though, I don't get such massive Zerg nerfs. They weren't dominating the ladder and we used Roach/Hydra because the other stuff was bad not because Roach/Hydra was inherently overpowered. Lings (of either variety) don't last well beyond the early game, Infesters already got pummeled with nerfbat a couple of times and seeing an Ultralisk is like witnessing a total fucking eclipse.
I dunno I see that marauder nerf as a more severe blow
Hmmm interesting, might have to give fast banshees a try. I usually roll with reapers as my harass unit but they are useful solely as a harass unit, it seems. Banshees sound much more versatile.
Hooray it's real, now zealots aren't completely useless against terran in the early game now
What, u crazy son. Two zealots + stalkers + like 3 probes holds off early marauder aggression pretty well. Literally the last last ranked game I played I had a dude (who was top 10 in a competitive plat division so he wasn't a noob :P) go for a rax on 9 and skip getting marines just to get marauders out earlier, then tried to bunker rush me with a few marauders and that unit comp was able to repel it pretty well.
When I say early game I meant like as one of the first units you get. You were crazy before if you got a zealot before a stalker, because it made your stalker slower and your death to rocket people even more assured.
I made Silver then, this should be fun. I'm finding little to know how to counter what is killing me a lot of the time, fast expanding zerg for instance who come at me with hordes or hydra's and lings. (i play terran). Is Thor actually used these days btw?
Thors are good, except they still lost to mass roaches... like everything else terran has except mass marauder.
We will see how these changes affect that.
I really wish they would buff ultralisks though, or make them easier to tech to and upgrade.
I think what's weird right now is that neither of the zerg "ultimate" units can shoot air. Broodlords and Ultralisks both can only attack ground, and while they do a decent job of killing ground units, it seems like both of their primary functions are to kill buildings. Protoss on the other hand have ultimate units that can attack both air and ground, the carrier and the mothership. And the Terran ultimate units can both attack air and ground. Well, I'm not sure if the thor really qualifies as an ultimate unit, but, the battlecruiser certainly does.
you mean if your overlord you have to sack to see such a thing didn't make it far enough into the enemy base because you can't get units past their wall? And you don't get cloaked flying units two minutes into the game or an ability to see anywhere on the map?
changelings/scouting drones/park an overlord right above a cliff. I've put an overlord right next to a missile turret before, only the turret didn't see it because of cliff vision. Constant harass, too.
Well it's arguable that if you get banshee/void ray rushed, you weren't scouting enough and thus you deserve it.
Except a terran can turtle up and then you have to guess if he's banshee rushing you, going MMM or doing some sort of marine/siege tank thing.
If you don't get that lair asap you won't be able to see what he's doing or have the tech to counter air.
Really I think OL speed should be moved to T1, and just take a little longer to research or something.
so your build order is a lair within like 4 minutes or something? Changelings, really... so you basically already lose to anything other than banshee/voidrays but hey, at least you're prepared for em!!
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Edit - and yeah, like 2-3 early void rays can melt buildings, even a hive/command center, especially a problem for zerg which tends to have little in the way of early antiair.
I am a freaking nerd.
Air-to-air units are bad against Marauders, as are Void Rays, a ton of immortals is okay versus Terran but far from ideal - once their shields are gone they take a ridiculous amount of damage from your marauders and go down hard. Colossus are decent, but only when there are 2 or 3 of them and when you can't just stim in close and rape them in a couple volleys (and when you haven't scouted it and built vikings to counter).
I'd like to see a video of equal supply armies of stimmed Marauders and charge Zealots going at it to see who wins. My money is on the Marauders.
Can't speak to lings and infestors though.
I do agree that Battlecruisers and Carriers are good against Marauders, so you have me there.
Not saying that they are the most cost effective method, of course.
Edit: I guess they don't get a bonus at low charge against armored anymore, and now that there is no middle charge, it will be rough getting the highest level charge against them.
Seriously though, I don't get such massive Zerg nerfs. They weren't dominating the ladder and we used Roach/Hydra because the other stuff was bad not because Roach/Hydra was inherently overpowered. Lings (of either variety) don't last well beyond the early game, Infesters already got pummeled with nerfbat a couple of times and seeing an Ultralisk is like witnessing a total fucking eclipse.
I am a freaking nerd.
nope he was terran. even harder for them bro
What, u crazy son. Two zealots + stalkers + like 3 probes holds off early marauder aggression pretty well. Literally the last last ranked game I played I had a dude (who was top 10 in a competitive plat division so he wasn't a noob :P) go for a rax on 9 and skip getting marines just to get marauders out earlier, then tried to bunker rush me with a few marauders and that unit comp was able to repel it pretty well.
*assigns both unit blobs to same control group*
*attack moves to enemy base*
*wins game*
I won my last two ZvZ games by going early lings to force my opponent to over-react with their own lings at which point I made a couple of banelings to finish the deal.
uh...
Yeah, good luck with that.
I am a freaking nerd.
I'm grinding in Copper currently because I got stomped in my placement matches. Who knew jumping right into ranked games would be a bad idea?
What are Banshees useful for? I've been playing strictly Terran for the past 13 games and I've yet to build one. MMM is just too tempting.
From what I've seen people have been using them with some success to kill/harass worker lines. With both cloak and a high damage they are pretty well suited for it.
then when you're done harassing you can usually keep him stuck in his base for a while longer for fear of more harassment/getting destroyed if he moves out without sufficient anti air.
they do crazy damage is what im saying.
Killing things that can't shoot up. Harassing workers. Punishing people for not having detectors (if you have cloak) but what they are probably best at is blowing up pylons.
Long range air-to-ground unit with optional cloaking. More durable than they look. Decent support, great for unit sniping and base harassment, fast banshees can win games. Brutal if used with proper micro near cliffs or bad terrain as they can use their range to pummel ground troops that can barely fire back. Solid infantry killer, no AtA and has trouble against durable GtA, especially in the open.
I dunno I see that marauder nerf as a more severe blow
When I say early game I meant like as one of the first units you get. You were crazy before if you got a zealot before a stalker, because it made your stalker slower and your death to rocket people even more assured.
We will see how these changes affect that.
I really wish they would buff ultralisks though, or make them easier to tech to and upgrade.
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Except a terran can turtle up and then you have to guess if he's banshee rushing you, going MMM or doing some sort of marine/siege tank thing.
If you don't get that lair asap you won't be able to see what he's doing or have the tech to counter air.
Really I think OL speed should be moved to T1, and just take a little longer to research or something.