Not only are these terrible zvz games long macro games, the actual battles are the most boring possible battles where a huge clump of units that shoot slowly and take 10 shots to kill each other sit there for like 5 minutes shooting until one side is done. God it's so bad.
Not only are these terrible zvz games long macro games, the actual battles are the most boring possible battles where a huge clump of units that shoot slowly and take 10 shots to kill each other sit there for like 5 minutes shooting until one side is done. God it's so bad.
I doubt we will be seeing many major gameplay altering changes before release. Even the massive roach nerf from the last patch hasn't really changed their place/importance much.
so the tournament bracket has not been released correct?
Everyone in the tournament needs to read this! It contains all the information for the tournament!
Tournament Stuff!
Alright, I have the bracket all done so I'm going to go ahead and post this stuff now
Round One Matchups
TheSuperWoot Sevorak
Retzinsky SLyM
hiigaran Projectmayhem
McSnuggles DasUberEdward
TheStig Saaruto
Mgslee Arkan
Yran No Great Name
Streltsy Munkus Beaver
mEEksa Tcheldor
Cakemikz Dr.Tongue
Iowa Tossrock
Inquisitor Sabo
CycloneRanger Zore
Walrus von Zeppelin wakkawa
Tournament Information
If your name appears bolded above that means you are the lower ranked seed in your first round matchup and as such you get to pick which map your round one game will take place on. I need every one of the lower seeded players to PM me your map of choice before Sunday!
Here is how the tournament is going to happen: There will be two rounds of single elimination games where everyone plays. (28 players to 14 to 7.) After the second round of single elimination games the top ranked player remaining will get a bye into the semi finals; then the 6 remaining players will play one more final elimination to select the final four.
The semi finals will be a best of 3 with the lower ranked opponent choosing the first map and the loser of each game choosing the next. The finals and third place matches will each be best of 5 with the same map selection rules.
Pre-Tournament Stuff
Before the tournament begins I would like everyone to head on over to the Steam group I have created. This is only because of the party limit in game and I want to have a way to get everyone together before the games start so we can go over last minute questions, etc. If you don't have Steam hop in game a couple of minutes before hand and I can answer any questions beforehand.
The tournament takes place on Sunday, April 11th at 4pm est (2pm Mountain, 1pm Pacific) please be in the Steam group chat a few minutes beforehand!
Why are zerg players so afraid to get burrow? It makes roaches and banelings a lot better, as well as drones if your mineral line is attacked. It's cheap and easy to get early too!
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Use void rays, colossi, high templar with psi storm, or immortals.
Your choice of units will depend on what he has in addition to marauders. Lots of marines? Go for colossi or HTs. Other mech? Get void rays or immortals.
Beware immortals and ghosts, though. The immortal is probably the strongest ground unit in the game (losing 1v1 only to a Thor using bombardment cannons) but it relies heavily on its shield.
CycloneRanger on
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Shouldn't infestors and hydralisks counter roaches, though? Immobilize them, then kill 'em from greater range.
Not really, because infestors are higher tech than roaches and a mass of roaches can be built to critical mass really quick (and hydralisks cannot take roaches).
The real problem with Zerg is the roach. It's an overpowered unit comparatively that has two extremely strong counters (Marauder/Immortal) both of which throw out game balance everywhere else. There is a trinity of bad units in SC2 (Roach - Marauder - Immortal) who need to be toned down IMO to make the game more varied and fun. They've made a great start with Marauder needing an upgrade and Roaches being nerfed, but I feel Roaches need to be nerfed further and other things in the Zerg army need a buff. Immortals also need a few nerfs, I think their shield power (Hardened shields) should be an upgrade and their ridiculous +30 damage against armored targets toned down (especially if Roaches get a HP nerf).
I think of the three races in SC2, Terran and Protoss is by far the best. Zerg is my favourite race but I really feel they are a giant mess and my personal opinion is that the Roach is what is breaking Zerg. The roach could use a couple more nerfs or made interesting and other units buffed. This should see more dynamic play and more than Roach ball vs. Roach ball in ZvZ.
Shouldn't infestors and hydralisks counter roaches, though? Immobilize them, then kill 'em from greater range.
Not really, because infestors are higher tech than roaches and a mass of roaches can be built to critical mass really quick (and hydralisks cannot take roaches).
The real problem with Zerg is the roach. It's an overpowered unit comparatively that has two extremely strong counters (Marauder/Immortal) both of which throw out game balance everywhere else. There is a trinity of bad units in SC2 (Roach - Marauder - Immortal) who need to be toned down IMO to make the game more varied and fun. They've made a great start with Marauder needing an upgrade and Roaches being nerfed, but I feel Roaches need to be nerfed further and other things in the Zerg army need a buff. Immortals also need a few nerfs, I think their shield power (Hardened shields) should be an upgrade and their ridiculous +30 damage against armored targets toned down (especially if Roaches get a HP nerf).
I think of the three races in SC2, Terran and Protoss is by far the best. Zerg is my favourite race but I really feel they are a giant mess and my personal opinion is that the Roach is what is breaking Zerg. The roach could use a couple more nerfs or made interesting and other units buffed. This should see more dynamic play and more than Roach ball vs. Roach ball in ZvZ.
I agree for the most part, but I see a potential problem against Terran if the roach is nerfed further. Right now marines fight roaches at a disadvantage, but with numbers or favorable terrain they can still win. The roach is currently the Zerg counter to marines, and if it were nerfed any further it'd be unable to do that effectively. Zerglings, hydralisks, and mutalisks all lose to marines (zerglings less so than the others, but with a few medevacs even they become mostly ineffective). Obviously ultralisks or the mighty broodlords will win against marines, but those are both tier 3.
Actually, nevermind that my lads! I forgot about banelings.
CycloneRanger on
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I agree for the most part, but I see a potential problem against Terran if the roach is nerfed further.
I did say to buff other aspects of zerg and not just nerf the roach, but I want to see the roach turned down as "automatically better than all these units". This means that Terran/Protoss don't need such a ridiculous counter and that too, will mean marauder/immortals can be toned down to something more reasonable as well.
Like ZvZ is the worst, all the games I've won (Albeit not many, I can only play the beta at my friends house - then again at least I *can* play so I shouldn't complain too much) it's mass Roach vs. mass Roach. It's just lame. On the other hand when I lose it's always because I try to do something other than massing a bunch of boring roaches. I would really like to see Zerg gameplay made more diverse and fun than "Roach or lose". Minding maybe there is something I'm missing to Zerg vs. Zerg...
Alright, what the hell is your profile picture of? I've been wondering for awhile and tineye can't find anything.
maybe you should read penny arcade
I do. I've read it since it first appeared on Looni games. What does your profile picture have to do with Penny Arcade?
I've probably read PA for 10 years, 3 times a week including the post. I don't know what it refers to and feel like you asked in a polite way and got a dickhead response back.
I would really like to see Zerg gameplay made more diverse and fun than "Roach or lose". Minding maybe there is something I'm missing to Zerg vs. Zerg...
Given that we just witnessed two top players both go mass roaches even after a huge roach nerf... it doesn't look like it.
In fact I don't think I've seen Idra lose a single ZvZ (at any rate he definitely wins most of them) and he just masses roaches every. single. game.
Alright, what the hell is your profile picture of? I've been wondering for awhile and tineye can't find anything.
maybe you should read penny arcade
I do. I've read it since it first appeared on Looni games. What does your profile picture have to do with Penny Arcade?
I've probably read PA for 10 years, 3 times a week including the post. I don't know what it refers to and feel like you asked in a polite way and got a dickhead response back.
I think INeedNoSalt thinks his avatar is my avatar and this whole conversation is confusing him deeply.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I remember watching HayPro vs. some protoss (who was a pretty good player at that) and just overrunning the protoss with nothing but roaches.
And it's not like the protoss didn't build immortals, he actually "won" most fights but the zerg took the entire map. 100 food of roaches vs. 50 food of protoss units results in 20 food left of zerg units - but the zerg still win and come back with 100 food of roaches again very quickly.
With the exception of the TheLittleOne vs. WhiteRa I've not watched a single decent Zerg vs. anyone game. I can name numerous awesome Terran vs. Protoss games I've watched though.
Alright, what the hell is your profile picture of? I've been wondering for awhile and tineye can't find anything.
maybe you should read penny arcade
I do. I've read it since it first appeared on Looni games. What does your profile picture have to do with Penny Arcade?
I've probably read PA for 10 years, 3 times a week including the post. I don't know what it refers to and feel like you asked in a polite way and got a dickhead response back.
I think INeedNoSalt thinks his avatar is my avatar and this whole conversation is confusing him deeply.
Stig who the fuck are those guys in your avatar? What is that ctrl+alt+del or something jesus find a different forum!
The worst thing is when you are using a holographic display and it's so realistic that you jump when something explodes near you. I mean, it's awesome, but it totally fucks up your micro.
Maybe I'll take some screenshots later just so you guys appreciate what you have. It's actually totally decent and it plays perfectly smooth except for big 2v2 battles sometimes I get some slowdown. I'm guessing that will be fixed by release too.
I just had my first game and I'm so lucky I'm pre-seeded in the copper league. I always had too much money, never really knew what I was doing, didn't have any sort of long-term plan, always seemed to get ruined, kept forgetting to scout or build units, MAN!
But then I realized "shit, he has zealots and immortals and that's about it. Fuck this noise, I am building void rays" and then I ran over his shit.
Maybe I'll take some screenshots later just so you guys appreciate what you have. It's actually totally decent and it plays perfectly smooth except for big 2v2 battles sometimes I get some slowdown. I'm guessing that will be fixed by release too.
When I first tried playing SCII my video card was woefully inadequate. The game lurched and everything barely ran on the lowest settings. All the buildings and units looked like they were made of clay; I was getting a real Warcraft I vibe from the whole thing
My brother gave me an old video card (an NVidia 8800 GT; I shudder to think what he's using in his computer now) that lets me play comfortably on medium settings.
Of course, I had to scavenge another power supply, short out the part that detects if its plugged into a motherboard, and run a cable from that power supply into the back of my open case to power up that card. A man does what he has to do.
God I love Thors. I've been using them in both TvP and TvZ to great success. Against Z they are an excellent harassment unit (two shot queens) and basically force the Zerg into some sort of Zergling/Roach composition, which you can then roll over with MMM. Against P they provide a solid backbone to your MMM army, and absolutely destroy Collossi. With them, I don't even miss the Marauder slow
Maybe I'll take some screenshots later just so you guys appreciate what you have. It's actually totally decent and it plays perfectly smooth except for big 2v2 battles sometimes I get some slowdown. I'm guessing that will be fixed by release too.
When I first tried playing SCII my video card was woefully inadequate. The game lurched and everything barely ran on the lowest settings. All the buildings and units looked like they were made of clay; I was getting a real Warcraft I vibe from the whole thing
My brother gave me an old video card (an NVidia 8800 GT; I shudder to think what he's using in his computer now) that lets me play comfortably on medium settings.
Of course, I had to scavenge another power supply, short out the part that detects if its plugged into a motherboard, and run a cable from that power supply into the back of my open case to power up that card. A man does what he has to do.
I have an 8800GT and I play on high graphics with some effects at 1920x1080 pretty comfortably. You can probably up your display settings without completely exploding everything in your computer...or so I'd hope.
Posts
Well, right. Sure, it's an even match of skill. Cool, tournament, whatever. But before, against me, you were probably guaranteed a win.
Since I'm curious how it might have gone, want to play a match now?
Bright side.
It's beta!
Everyone in the tournament needs to read this! It contains all the information for the tournament!
Alright, I have the bracket all done so I'm going to go ahead and post this stuff now
Round One Matchups
Sevorak
Retzinsky
SLyM
hiigaran
Projectmayhem
McSnuggles
DasUberEdward
TheStig
Saaruto
Mgslee
Arkan
Yran
No Great Name
Streltsy
Munkus Beaver
mEEksa
Tcheldor
Cakemikz
Dr.Tongue
Iowa
Tossrock
Inquisitor
Sabo
CycloneRanger
Zore
Walrus von Zeppelin
wakkawa
Tournament Information
If your name appears bolded above that means you are the lower ranked seed in your first round matchup and as such you get to pick which map your round one game will take place on. I need every one of the lower seeded players to PM me your map of choice before Sunday!
Here is how the tournament is going to happen: There will be two rounds of single elimination games where everyone plays. (28 players to 14 to 7.) After the second round of single elimination games the top ranked player remaining will get a bye into the semi finals; then the 6 remaining players will play one more final elimination to select the final four.
The semi finals will be a best of 3 with the lower ranked opponent choosing the first map and the loser of each game choosing the next. The finals and third place matches will each be best of 5 with the same map selection rules.
Pre-Tournament Stuff
Before the tournament begins I would like everyone to head on over to the Steam group I have created. This is only because of the party limit in game and I want to have a way to get everyone together before the games start so we can go over last minute questions, etc. If you don't have Steam hop in game a couple of minutes before hand and I can answer any questions beforehand.
The tournament takes place on Sunday, April 11th at 4pm est (2pm Mountain, 1pm Pacific) please be in the Steam group chat a few minutes beforehand!
I think this is the only time I am going to try it, of the 14 games I have received 5 map choices so far.
edit: every time we run this tournament it will get better as we refine the process, this is only the 2nd time we have ran it
shit couldn't even get to them to hit them
maybe you should read penny arcade
3 immortals kill infinite marauders and that is science
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Your choice of units will depend on what he has in addition to marauders. Lots of marines? Go for colossi or HTs. Other mech? Get void rays or immortals.
Beware immortals and ghosts, though. The immortal is probably the strongest ground unit in the game (losing 1v1 only to a Thor using bombardment cannons) but it relies heavily on its shield.
Not really, because infestors are higher tech than roaches and a mass of roaches can be built to critical mass really quick (and hydralisks cannot take roaches).
The real problem with Zerg is the roach. It's an overpowered unit comparatively that has two extremely strong counters (Marauder/Immortal) both of which throw out game balance everywhere else. There is a trinity of bad units in SC2 (Roach - Marauder - Immortal) who need to be toned down IMO to make the game more varied and fun. They've made a great start with Marauder needing an upgrade and Roaches being nerfed, but I feel Roaches need to be nerfed further and other things in the Zerg army need a buff. Immortals also need a few nerfs, I think their shield power (Hardened shields) should be an upgrade and their ridiculous +30 damage against armored targets toned down (especially if Roaches get a HP nerf).
I think of the three races in SC2, Terran and Protoss is by far the best. Zerg is my favourite race but I really feel they are a giant mess and my personal opinion is that the Roach is what is breaking Zerg. The roach could use a couple more nerfs or made interesting and other units buffed. This should see more dynamic play and more than Roach ball vs. Roach ball in ZvZ.
Actually, nevermind that my lads! I forgot about banelings.
I did say to buff other aspects of zerg and not just nerf the roach, but I want to see the roach turned down as "automatically better than all these units". This means that Terran/Protoss don't need such a ridiculous counter and that too, will mean marauder/immortals can be toned down to something more reasonable as well.
Like ZvZ is the worst, all the games I've won (Albeit not many, I can only play the beta at my friends house - then again at least I *can* play so I shouldn't complain too much) it's mass Roach vs. mass Roach. It's just lame. On the other hand when I lose it's always because I try to do something other than massing a bunch of boring roaches. I would really like to see Zerg gameplay made more diverse and fun than "Roach or lose". Minding maybe there is something I'm missing to Zerg vs. Zerg...
I do. I've read it since it first appeared on Loony games. What does your profile picture have to do with Penny Arcade?
I've probably read PA for 10 years, 3 times a week including the post. I don't know what it refers to and feel like you asked in a polite way and got a dickhead response back.
Given that we just witnessed two top players both go mass roaches even after a huge roach nerf... it doesn't look like it.
In fact I don't think I've seen Idra lose a single ZvZ (at any rate he definitely wins most of them) and he just masses roaches every. single. game.
I think INeedNoSalt thinks his avatar is my avatar and this whole conversation is confusing him deeply.
And it's not like the protoss didn't build immortals, he actually "won" most fights but the zerg took the entire map. 100 food of roaches vs. 50 food of protoss units results in 20 food left of zerg units - but the zerg still win and come back with 100 food of roaches again very quickly.
With the exception of the TheLittleOne vs. WhiteRa I've not watched a single decent Zerg vs. anyone game. I can name numerous awesome Terran vs. Protoss games I've watched though.
my avatar is a girl vomiting chocolate. my profile picture is "No Heart, No Soul, No Service" from the PA comics about robots.
Stig who the fuck are those guys in your avatar? What is that ctrl+alt+del or something jesus find a different forum!
They need to really increase the mineral/gas/supply text size, that shit is too tiny and ignorable at 1920x1080.
oh I feel soooooo sorry for you while I play on lowest settings and still crash in big 2v2 games
lol
If I had your cpu i'd give away my beta.
Your settings are too low and your marines are emerging from the barracks deformed and in pain. There is only one thing to do.
Select your pistol and select your marines.
I just had my first game and I'm so lucky I'm pre-seeded in the copper league. I always had too much money, never really knew what I was doing, didn't have any sort of long-term plan, always seemed to get ruined, kept forgetting to scout or build units, MAN!
But then I realized "shit, he has zealots and immortals and that's about it. Fuck this noise, I am building void rays" and then I ran over his shit.
My brother gave me an old video card (an NVidia 8800 GT; I shudder to think what he's using in his computer now) that lets me play comfortably on medium settings.
Of course, I had to scavenge another power supply, short out the part that detects if its plugged into a motherboard, and run a cable from that power supply into the back of my open case to power up that card. A man does what he has to do.
Not that surprising I guess. Interesting though!
Message me if you'd like to play; until then I'll probably be in ranked matches getting my ass kicked.
I have an 8800GT and I play on high graphics with some effects at 1920x1080 pretty comfortably. You can probably up your display settings without completely exploding everything in your computer...or so I'd hope.
Steam ID