Cool proto - kind of reminds me of a reverse Gerbil Physics. Haha, are those chickens drawn on the blocks? I couldn't tell. The flick mechanic definitely has potential.
Feel free not to share of course, but what are you thinking of in terms of a goal/premise - what's the player trying to do?
And then what sort of theme are you thinking of using as "packaging?"
Multiplayer?
They're not chickens drawn on the box, they're mangy rabbits that I didn't have room to draw the ears on. I've got a decent sketching hand and I'm looking forward to creating the art for this, but it'll be one of the last things I do.
The goal will be for the player to have Y number of cute critters in a level and have to save X of Y of them by moving them to the exit or solving puzzles. The theme of the game is that there are... complications. Like those spikes you see on the screen.
Also, yes, the "packaging" will be not only competitive multiplayer (local only), but also a level editor for everybody's use. That's why I was fretting over serialization a week or so ago... I wanted it to work on the Xbox for all potential end users.
If flicking things around is the basis of your gameplay I'd definitely consider using a proper physics engine (ie. Farseer) to make the blocks tumble and clatter about realistically (you probably realise this already).
If you add switches and gates and moving platforms and so on I reckon you could have a nifty puzzle game in the making here.
I don't think Farseer is necessary at the moment, actually. The scope I have in mind is fairly limited and might be better served by applying only the level of physics that are truly necessary.
Although, I must say, I was impressed by the execution of the physics in Apple Jack. Did you use Farseer for that?
EDIT: Also, yes! Switches and gates are definitely planned, as well as other nifty objects that can be physically interacted with. The gameplay screen will need everything visible without camera panning, so I'll probably go back shortly and trim the size of those basic building blocks to allow for more room.
I'm calling it "Project Squish" for the time-being, because I hope to catch some people off guard with the title (in a good way). I'll share it with you guys when I'm a bit deeper into development, to see whether or not you think it's a good idea or whether I've lost my mind.
Looks like it has great potential, I like it already. Reminds me a little bit of Bust-A-Move or Snood but considerably more dynamic. You were talking about how those boxes will eventually be little critters that you save... have you considered adding maybe a small bit of that Lemmings dynamic? In case you have no idea what I'm talking about, Lemmings is a game where you have to guide little critters to safety through a level by assigning them tasks to build bridges or steps dig holes, etc:
I have, actually. Although, I don't intend for my critters to be "doing stuff" so much as being... unwitting accomplices in some things. Like, using their behavior to your advantage.
Although, I must say, I was impressed by the execution of the physics in Apple Jack. Did you use Farseer for that?
Cheers! No, I didn't use Farseer, though I would have done if I'd known more C# at the start of the project. It's pretty easy to get objects bouncing off of walls and landing fairly convincingly, but a proper physics engine would have allowed, say, a washing machine to catch the edge of a platform and spin off realistically, then clatter into other enemies, knocking them over etc.
Although saying that, it probably uses a lot of processing power, so there wouldn't have been as many enemies and coins on screen...
I had a flick through Retro Gamer today and both Apple Jack AND Breath of Death get a mention in the homebrew section!
There was an interview with the guy who made Shoot 1up and he picked BoD as one of his favourite XBLIG's, while Apple Jack had a screenshot and a few sentences saying how weird it was. Good stuff.
I had a flick through Retro Gamer today and both Apple Jack AND Breath of Death get a mention in the homebrew section!
There was an interview with the guy who made Shoot 1up and he picked BoD as one of his favourite XBLIG's, while Apple Jack had a screenshot and a few sentences saying how weird it was. Good stuff.
Wow, really? That's awesome! I gotta figure out a way to get a copy of that magazine. It's only published in Europe though isn't it? Hm..
I still have a lot to learn, but these are the guys I look to for 'how to get things right.'
sidenote: at this very moment, a random Cthulhu thread popped up on neogaf and your game was brought up fellas (raises hand), so get ready for some website traffic.
I'm about a month or 2 away from finishing my game and I was wondering, did anyone submit their game for playtest feedback before submitting it for player review? I've had friends play it and give their 2 cents but I was wondering if it was worth it.
There are usually plenty of issues on Ebay but it can be pricey.
did anyone submit their game for playtest feedback before submitting it for player review? I've had friends play it and give their 2 cents but I was wondering if it was worth it.
Definitely in my case, I got some great feedback and it improved the game a lot.
There are usually plenty of issues on Ebay but it can be pricey.
Oh cool, thanks. I'll see if the local bookstores have it. They have Edge so they might have this one, although I think they're usually a month behind. I might check out ebay if it's not too bad.
The review for your game was in the July issue of Edge too, right? The bookstore I just went to only had the june issue, so I didn't see it.
sidenote: at this very moment, a random Cthulhu thread popped up on neogaf and your game was brought up fellas (raises hand), so get ready for some website traffic.
I'm about a month or 2 away from finishing my game and I was wondering, did anyone submit their game for playtest feedback before submitting it for player review? I've had friends play it and give their 2 cents but I was wondering if it was worth it.
I recommend that anyone put their game up for playtest, and be open minded about the feedback you receive. Try out suggestions and make tweaks that people give in the thread, and let people in the thread know you're trying out their suggestions. It's worth it.
They are two different processes really. You can put your build into playtest whenever you choose really, so long as it's playable. You can pull it down at anytime and resubmit to playtest as you wish. I put Opac's Journey in there around 95% I'd estimate - but I've seen games in there that are still what I will basically call prototypes.
Once you go into review, you're basically saying, "I'm ready." You then need to be passed by a good number of peers, passing a good number of tests - your game page will have a progress bar that shows how far through review you are.
When RBD and myself put BODVII into playtest, it was probably about 90% done. All of the main "game" was there, but we still incorporated tons of the suggestions made in playtest. Lots of things (as many suggestions as we could, really). It was a lot of good suggestions that helped iron out some gameplay balancing, and some writing, and some stuff regarding presentation. In other words, it allowed us to take the game from a good state and develop it into a far more polished state before we released it.
However, it doesn't have to be done that way. Some developers make basic prototypes of their game and put it into playtesting just to see how people react to the gameplay before they go further and spend a lot of time on the project, or to get suggestions on what works/what doesn't, or even to take suggestions as to what direction to take the gameplay.
So it just depends on your goals. If you want to take suggestions on the "direction" of your game or mechanics, putting it up earlier is probably a good idea. If you want refinement, balancing, and suggestions to polish a game or make it more intuitive, then putting it up for playtest when it's more complete is probably a good idea.
I'll also say that playtest usually results in people finding bugs that you can fix before peer review and/or release, which might save you time in peer review and minimize the chances of a bug breaking the game post-release, but I view the playtest "phase" as something that is far more valuable for getting feedback on the gameplay itself rather than merely technical things.
edit: i'll also reiterate the usefulness of being open minded in this process.
All the feedback in the world won't help you if you disregard it out of hand. My poor beta testers will be happy to know that I've completely reworked practically everything they complained about.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
I am in the stage of PocketWars development where I am play testing the game with programmer art (aka tanks are just cubes with a solid color, troops are little rectangles, air ships are triangles, etc).
I am really starting to stress about art though, and I am starting to decide whether I want to bring on a partner to do the art (like slash and Rainbow did), or if I just want to pay a starving college student a flat fee to pump out my first pass at the art.
GnomeTank: Good custom 3D tank models (and don't forget animations/rigging if you need em) will run you a pretty penny and based on what I know about XBLIG sales successes (especially if it's your first), I'd be very wary of that investment. The good thing about tanks though is that you could probably get away with a couple colors/variations of the same model - maybe.
I know somewhere I saw a tank set for pretty cheap though - there are some companies out there who create 3D model bundles and sell them on the cheap. The drawback being other devs may use them too. You might want dig the internet a bit - I think I saw them on the Indiegamers forums. If I come across them again I will let you know.
I am really starting to stress about art though, and I am starting to decide whether I want to bring on a partner to do the art (like slash and Rainbow did), or if I just want to pay a starving college student a flat fee to pump out my first pass at the art.
I recommend finding an artist and just splitting the revenue on some agreed-upon percentage. The reason is that you don't know how much money your game will make, really, so this approach minimizes risk. It also gives the artist an additional incentive to make really great art, because the better the art the better the game, the better the game the better chances it has of selling well (of which he would get some percent cut).
I will say that there are lots of artists out there in the world that would love to help make a game. The hard thing is finding someone reliable that doesn't just vanish on you once the going gets tough.
But, I don't know, there might be some packs of 3D models you can license, I'm not sure.
All four of them is a total of 320 points, leaving you another 80 for another game. There's a lot of other great 80 MSP indie games available for your remaining points . I hope I'm not forgetting anyone...
I thought earlier in the thread there was mention of solar hoops.
Yeah, my game failed the first time and I had it fixed within 20 minutes. Drove me nuts because I had to wait a week in the dunce corner all because I missed something.
My game is called Solar Hoops and it's about 80% through review. I need a couple more.
I had a flick through Retro Gamer today and both Apple Jack AND Breath of Death get a mention in the homebrew section!
There was an interview with the guy who made Shoot 1up and he picked BoD as one of his favourite XBLIG's, while Apple Jack had a screenshot and a few sentences saying how weird it was. Good stuff.
Awesome! I wish I was in the UK so I could pick up a copy.
It's very short - probably beatable in 8-10 minutes so that was a smart move. Fun game, just short. Hardcore players may go bonkers for the medals too which was a nice touch. The nice retro graphics and short demo will pull in sales.
Hey, I helped a friend make Zombie Sniper HD, an Xbox Live Indie Game. My voice (as filtered through Audacity) can be heard as the one going "Multi-kill" and "Nitro Combo!" in this video (in the spoilers). If you download a demo, you can hear my (terrible) a cappella theme song for the game, which I liked to call "Theme from Zombie Sniper HD." The lyrics are basically just describing the game. Check it out, if you like.
I am really starting to stress about art though, and I am starting to decide whether I want to bring on a partner to do the art (like slash and Rainbow did), or if I just want to pay a starving college student a flat fee to pump out my first pass at the art.
I recommend finding an artist and just splitting the revenue on some agreed-upon percentage. The reason is that you don't know how much money your game will make, really, so this approach minimizes risk. It also gives the artist an additional incentive to make really great art, because the better the art the better the game, the better the game the better chances it has of selling well (of which he would get some percent cut).
I will say that there are lots of artists out there in the world that would love to help make a game. The hard thing is finding someone reliable that doesn't just vanish on you once the going gets tough.
But, I don't know, there might be some packs of 3D models you can license, I'm not sure.
Yah, not really wanting to use pre-made packs, because I have a specific art style in mind.
So lets assume I want to go the "find a partner" route, what's my best bet? Canvas the local colleges that have graphics design programs? I really want to find someone I can connect to in person, as it lowers the "disappear and leave me high and dry" factor a bit.
So lets assume I want to go the "find a partner" route, what's my best bet? Canvas the local colleges that have graphics design programs? I really want to find someone I can connect to in person, as it lowers the "disappear and leave me high and dry" factor a bit.
Ah. Man. In person? That's tough, not really sure what to recommend.
I want to call the game Cute Things Dying Violently.
I think I learned my lessons from "Around The World." In fact, the mere name of that game was so vague that it was impossible to specifically search for it on Google. (It didn't help that there were "Around The World in 80 Games" articles about XBLIG.) Meanwhile, there's nothing out there called "Cute Things Dying Violently", which I hope will stick out like a sore thumb if people go looking for it.
I'm also going for quirky-ness and word of mouth. People tend to pay attention at parties when I tell them the name of the game I'm working on, and I'm hoping the same effect will happen online.
However, I'm wondering if I'm being too immature with the titling and the thematic elements. I know that I'm going for a premise that's more than a bit immature - solving puzzles with cute, high-pitched animals that might land on a buzzsaw - but do you guys think that immaturity can be a successful selling point, or a handicap?
Also, is there anything in the Microsoft XBLIG terms and conditions that prevent you from advertising a game with a blatantly violent title, or showing blatantly violent promo material?
Posts
They're not chickens drawn on the box, they're mangy rabbits that I didn't have room to draw the ears on. I've got a decent sketching hand and I'm looking forward to creating the art for this, but it'll be one of the last things I do.
The goal will be for the player to have Y number of cute critters in a level and have to save X of Y of them by moving them to the exit or solving puzzles. The theme of the game is that there are... complications. Like those spikes you see on the screen.
Also, yes, the "packaging" will be not only competitive multiplayer (local only), but also a level editor for everybody's use. That's why I was fretting over serialization a week or so ago... I wanted it to work on the Xbox for all potential end users.
I don't think Farseer is necessary at the moment, actually. The scope I have in mind is fairly limited and might be better served by applying only the level of physics that are truly necessary.
Although, I must say, I was impressed by the execution of the physics in Apple Jack. Did you use Farseer for that?
EDIT: Also, yes! Switches and gates are definitely planned, as well as other nifty objects that can be physically interacted with. The gameplay screen will need everything visible without camera panning, so I'll probably go back shortly and trim the size of those basic building blocks to allow for more room.
Looks like it has great potential, I like it already. Reminds me a little bit of Bust-A-Move or Snood but considerably more dynamic. You were talking about how those boxes will eventually be little critters that you save... have you considered adding maybe a small bit of that Lemmings dynamic? In case you have no idea what I'm talking about, Lemmings is a game where you have to guide little critters to safety through a level by assigning them tasks to build bridges or steps dig holes, etc:
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=AD26805BAnM&feature=related
Just an idea. Good luck!
Cheers! No, I didn't use Farseer, though I would have done if I'd known more C# at the start of the project. It's pretty easy to get objects bouncing off of walls and landing fairly convincingly, but a proper physics engine would have allowed, say, a washing machine to catch the edge of a platform and spin off realistically, then clatter into other enemies, knocking them over etc.
Although saying that, it probably uses a lot of processing power, so there wouldn't have been as many enemies and coins on screen...
Congrats Trumpets!
That's one magazine I'm not chucking out in a hurry!
You should frame it. :P
Or at least put it somewhere that it won't get lost or damaged.
I just think that's really cool to have your game reviewed in a pretty popular gaming magazine.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
There was an interview with the guy who made Shoot 1up and he picked BoD as one of his favourite XBLIG's, while Apple Jack had a screenshot and a few sentences saying how weird it was. Good stuff.
Wow, really? That's awesome! I gotta figure out a way to get a copy of that magazine. It's only published in Europe though isn't it? Hm..
Also, Nathan Fouts is a great guy :^:
edit: which issue is it?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Ophidian Wars: Opac's Journey
sidenote: at this very moment, a random Cthulhu thread popped up on neogaf and your game was brought up fellas (raises hand), so get ready for some website traffic.
Ophidian Wars: Opac's Journey
The latest one, with Rainbow Islands on the cover:
http://www.retrogamer.net/
There are usually plenty of issues on Ebay but it can be pricey.
Definitely in my case, I got some great feedback and it improved the game a lot.
Oh cool, thanks. I'll see if the local bookstores have it. They have Edge so they might have this one, although I think they're usually a month behind. I might check out ebay if it's not too bad.
The review for your game was in the July issue of Edge too, right? The bookstore I just went to only had the june issue, so I didn't see it.
Nice
I recommend that anyone put their game up for playtest, and be open minded about the feedback you receive. Try out suggestions and make tweaks that people give in the thread, and let people in the thread know you're trying out their suggestions. It's worth it.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Once you go into review, you're basically saying, "I'm ready." You then need to be passed by a good number of peers, passing a good number of tests - your game page will have a progress bar that shows how far through review you are.
Ophidian Wars: Opac's Journey
However, it doesn't have to be done that way. Some developers make basic prototypes of their game and put it into playtesting just to see how people react to the gameplay before they go further and spend a lot of time on the project, or to get suggestions on what works/what doesn't, or even to take suggestions as to what direction to take the gameplay.
So it just depends on your goals. If you want to take suggestions on the "direction" of your game or mechanics, putting it up earlier is probably a good idea. If you want refinement, balancing, and suggestions to polish a game or make it more intuitive, then putting it up for playtest when it's more complete is probably a good idea.
I'll also say that playtest usually results in people finding bugs that you can fix before peer review and/or release, which might save you time in peer review and minimize the chances of a bug breaking the game post-release, but I view the playtest "phase" as something that is far more valuable for getting feedback on the gameplay itself rather than merely technical things.
edit: i'll also reiterate the usefulness of being open minded in this process.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I am really starting to stress about art though, and I am starting to decide whether I want to bring on a partner to do the art (like slash and Rainbow did), or if I just want to pay a starving college student a flat fee to pump out my first pass at the art.
This is all 3D, as PocketWars is a 3D game.
I know somewhere I saw a tank set for pretty cheap though - there are some companies out there who create 3D model bundles and sell them on the cheap. The drawback being other devs may use them too. You might want dig the internet a bit - I think I saw them on the Indiegamers forums. If I come across them again I will let you know.
Sueve: pick me, pick me, pick me!?
Ophidian Wars: Opac's Journey
I recommend finding an artist and just splitting the revenue on some agreed-upon percentage. The reason is that you don't know how much money your game will make, really, so this approach minimizes risk. It also gives the artist an additional incentive to make really great art, because the better the art the better the game, the better the game the better chances it has of selling well (of which he would get some percent cut).
I will say that there are lots of artists out there in the world that would love to help make a game. The hard thing is finding someone reliable that doesn't just vanish on you once the going gets tough.
But, I don't know, there might be some packs of 3D models you can license, I'm not sure.
I hope I'm not forgetting anyone, but from what I recall from this thread the Penny Arcade forumer games so far have been:
Breath of Death VII
Apple Jack
Around the World
Opac's Journey
Solar Hoops
All five totals 5 dollars of points.
edit: I knew i missed one
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I thought earlier in the thread there was mention of solar hoops.
edit: here it is
Awesome! I wish I was in the UK so I could pick up a copy.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
No, August, Issue 217.
Platformance is out, and I can see it selling loads. The trial ends quite quickly and the urge to just pay the 80 points needed to continue is strong.
Ophidian Wars: Opac's Journey
Hang on, lemme post it again;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DMembtjfjI
There. Awesome stuff.
Beat Easy (Silver Medal) and Normal (just Bronze) but too tired to beat Hard right now.
Total gem of a game, love it. Wish it had online leaderboards though.
It's too hardcore for me personally (too much frustration), but love the design.
Ophidian Wars: Opac's Journey
http://www.Lupinthe3rd.com
Oh god yes. Wonderful stuff.
2009 is a year of Updates - one every Monday. Hopefully. xx
Yah, not really wanting to use pre-made packs, because I have a specific art style in mind.
So lets assume I want to go the "find a partner" route, what's my best bet? Canvas the local colleges that have graphics design programs? I really want to find someone I can connect to in person, as it lowers the "disappear and leave me high and dry" factor a bit.
Is there a good way of determining what routines or methods are sucking up CPU power on the PC?
EDIT: Nevermind. Didn't realize that writing to the Console was so expensive.
I had one of them! I'm not sure whether it was better than Screwball Scramble though...
Ah. Man. In person? That's tough, not really sure what to recommend.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
http://www.xnplay.co.uk/2010/07/26/avaglide/#more-6916
I really like it too.
Also, finally finally sitting down to play BoD properly. (Fallout 3 has been killing my RPG time).
And guys, it rocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38LGScpHb30
I want to call the game Cute Things Dying Violently.
I think I learned my lessons from "Around The World." In fact, the mere name of that game was so vague that it was impossible to specifically search for it on Google. (It didn't help that there were "Around The World in 80 Games" articles about XBLIG.) Meanwhile, there's nothing out there called "Cute Things Dying Violently", which I hope will stick out like a sore thumb if people go looking for it.
I'm also going for quirky-ness and word of mouth. People tend to pay attention at parties when I tell them the name of the game I'm working on, and I'm hoping the same effect will happen online.
However, I'm wondering if I'm being too immature with the titling and the thematic elements. I know that I'm going for a premise that's more than a bit immature - solving puzzles with cute, high-pitched animals that might land on a buzzsaw - but do you guys think that immaturity can be a successful selling point, or a handicap?
Also, is there anything in the Microsoft XBLIG terms and conditions that prevent you from advertising a game with a blatantly violent title, or showing blatantly violent promo material?
Appreciate any insight on this!