The discussion about tree druids seems like a massive nerdrage, seems like everyone is upset that they won't have to be in a healer only form. I am actually liking this change cause while I can kill stuff on my priest while healing, my druid alt is wasting mana by having to unshift, cast w/e spell for damage, then back to a tree. Oh, and heaven-forbid I stay out of tree form in randoms, even with T9 gear in H UK, I get called out on "heyyy, durid healz is suppozed to be tree, u r turrible healz, byee" (votekicked).
I had this in a DTK once where a moonkin completely lost his shit on me because I was dpsing and healing at the same time. At first he was saying things like "oh look, I guess you're doing my job for me" and such, which I interpreted in a joking manner because the tank and I were both mostly T10 so a single rejuv could keep him up. He kept at it though and took to just standing there in moonkin form on pulls without dpsing and spouting off. We were moving at a good clip so no one really stopped to ask him why he was being a silly goose but I thought it exceptionally strange to see dps freak out because I tuk der jerb.
Now when the elemental shaman insists on healing himself every single time he takes damage, I retain my right to get pissy.
Yet another reason why I'm really happy the vanilla launch-designers are mostly gone for good:
For everyone focusing on the RMP Arena comp, I really think you’re going to see a shift to more PvP concerns in Cataclysm being about Battleground balance. There will still be players playing Arenas for sure, but a lot of the players currently doing Arenas are going to shift to rated BGs instead.
Ha ha ha.
I don't see what's good about a quote that reads, "Players will be doing BGs so fuck arena balance."
Are you happy that they are implying some portion of the game will linger in some unbalanced state?
Or are you being spiteful and goosey towards another part of the game?
Arenas were shoehorned into the game. A lot has been sacrificed in order to provide a comprehensive balance for arena at various stages of play.
The priority of PvP balance should be on battlegrounds and group pvp over arenas. Arenas should be something for those who want to arena to do. As such, minor balance issues in Arena aren't as problematic. The majority of the PvP population, when assuming equal rewards for doing battlegrounds and arena, will almost always choose battegrounds.
Let the hardcore arena folk play the hardcore arena folk. If there are only 6 compositions that happen to work out really well in 3v3 then that's perfectly fine. It's not about being inclusive to the population, it's about providing that experience too those who truly want it.
One of the staff folk also said a few weeks ago in an interview that Arena by and large has been regarded at Blizzard as a mistake and that they would like to see it phased out slowly, hence rated BGs in Cataclysm. It was either Greg Street or Tom Chilton I think. He mentioned that it was very cumbersome on the staff to constantly manage gear/spells/specs to ensure that they are not too overpowering or underwhelming in Arena, which is often times not fair to the majority of the playerbase who never step into the Arena.
When I think of people who only play to Arena, I think of 8 year old boys on Xbox Live calling me a gay homofag for sucking at Modern Warfare 2.
The discussion about tree druids seems like a massive nerdrage, seems like everyone is upset that they won't have to be in a healer only form. I am actually liking this change cause while I can kill stuff on my priest while healing, my druid alt is wasting mana by having to unshift, cast w/e spell for damage, then back to a tree. Oh, and heaven-forbid I stay out of tree form in randoms, even with T9 gear in H UK, I get called out on "heyyy, durid healz is suppozed to be tree, u r turrible healz, byee" (votekicked).
I had this in a DTK once where a moonkin completely lost his shit on me because I was dpsing and healing at the same time. At first he was saying things like "oh look, I guess you're doing my job for me" and such, which I interpreted in a joking manner because the tank and I were both mostly T10 so a single rejuv could keep him up. He kept at it though and took to just standing there in moonkin form on pulls without dpsing and spouting off. We were moving at a good clip so no one really stopped to ask him why he was being a silly goose but I thought it exceptionally strange to see dps freak out because I tuk der jerb.
Now when the elemental shaman insists on healing himself every single time he takes damage, I retain my right to get pissy.
Was playing with my newly minted 80 Warrior yesterday and was regularly pulling aggro, even though I was only doing 1600 DPS, off the Druid tank. After a few pulls he asked me, somewhat testily "so dump (my name), you want to tank?"
Trying to explain to our guild's resto druid that the changes to ToL form don't mean a nerf to her healing is frustrating.
I think it's awesome when people ignore all other changes happening and just focus on one thing. Fuckin' tunnel vision.
Those are the types who only focus on health bars in raids and have no situational awareness. I wonder if they have tunnel vision issues in other fields of work.
When I think of people who only play to Arena, I think of 8 year old boys on Xbox Live calling me a gay homofag for sucking at Modern Warfare 2.
You're aware of the hypocrisy here, right?
Munkus's arguments break down because, simply put, most BGs will be group duels for an objective. There's a macromanagement element not seen in arenas, but it's not like having a flag suddenly changes the fight. Here too you can use a cooldown that wins the fight, which wins the objective and eventually: the game.
Your cooldown comment also doesn't make sense. You plan cooldowns in arena. You plan them in PvE. There are some PvE fights that encourage cooldown usage early in the fight and others that encourage later use. Is this not "varying"? In PvP you can burn cooldowns right off the bat for a quick kill, but the other teams has all their defensive cooldowns up still. You called it a gamble, and that's precisely what it is. You can blow your wad early on in the hopes that the team isn't ready for it or try to pressure the team without your big cooldowns in an attempt to rid them of their defensive tools.
I didn't expect Ghostcrawler to go into any further explanation than "You guys haven't played Cata yet, so don't worry about PMR." But to just blow it off as he did is worrying. It's one thing to remove arena (which would be disappointing, but thems the breaks) and to keep arena as a neglected and unbalanced thing. Duels are unbalanced too, but nobody is getting the best PvP gear in the game from them.
One of the staff folk also said a few weeks ago in an interview that Arena by and large has been regarded at Blizzard as a mistake and that they would like to see it phased out slowly, hence rated BGs in Cataclysm. It was either Greg Street or Tom Chilton I think. He mentioned that it was very cumbersome on the staff to constantly manage gear/spells/specs to ensure that they are not too overpowering or underwhelming in Arena, which is often times not fair to the majority of the playerbase who never step into the Arena.
When I think of people who only play to Arena, I think of 8 year old boys on Xbox Live calling me a gay homofag for sucking at Modern Warfare 2.
If Kalgan said he'd like to phase out Arenas entirely, I'd be stunned. Arenas were his baby.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Ok, so if Arcane missiles is now a proc, does that mean Arcane will be getting another arcane spell early on?
Also you get mana back for spells that don't hit, that means they don't expect us to hit in raids?
Also you get mana back for spells that don't hit, that means they don't expect us to hit in raids?
All ratings will be much harder to "cap out" at maximum gear levels. Ratings will be steeper in Cataclysm, and creatures in later tiers of content will be harder to hit or crit, similar to how level-83 mobs are harder to hit or crit than level-80 mobs.
I think they dislike the idea of people hastily cramming together +hit in heroics and early raids, hitting the cap, then finding themselves swimming in +hit once they gear up and progress to the point where +hit on new gear is worthless to them. They're also getting rid of all party/raid-wide +hit abilities, such as the Draenei passive.
Also, I thought they wanted hit to always be an attractive stat rather than juggling around a cap constantly. I think I'd rather juggle than miss. Hmm... time will tell.
While there are obviously some thing that are fuxxored (Armor Pen), there is such a thing as making a game too simple. Fiddling with gear is one of the few things I have to pass the time time between my guild's failures in ICC.
While there are obviously some thing that are fuxxored (Armor Pen), there is such a thing as making a game too simple. Fiddling with gear is one of the few things I have to pass the time time between my guild's failures in ICC.
They aren't making the gear simpler, they are making it less stupid.
Simply put, a stat like Intellect, right now, is useless. You never look at it. You look at the Spell Power or the Spirit or the Haste or the Crit or whatever.
So WHY IS IT THERE?
Thus, they did the smart thing and just rolled Spell Power and Intellect into one (which is how it should have been from the start).
They are trimming the useless fat from the over-cumbersome stat tree.
The /votekick stuff you guys are mentioning is the thing that makes me not want to play WOW again.
I'm just starting to get back into it, but I'm a complete casual and have only played 2 or 3 dungeons ever.
I hate it when I make up an interesting but non-shit build/character and someone complains because it's not cookie-cutter #17.
Will I hate WOW nowadays then?
Such things don't really exist.
If the build is any good, there will be a cookie-cutter build just or mostly like it.
Agility and Strength did the same thing as attack power. The only reason to have AP is to slap on it class-agnostic gear like rings or tirnkets. The same goes for Spirit and MP5.
We're losing ArPen, but getting mastery. Which is more interesting anyways. Haste, Crit and Hit aren't going anywhere.
If they succeed in making haste/crit/mastery close to equally desirable for all specs, gearing will be a much much more interesting process. Right now there are just so many examples of specs where the disparity between haste and crit, or arpen and haste, or ___ and ___ is so great that you don't even have to ever look at pieces that lack your godstat.
One of the staff folk also said a few weeks ago in an interview that Arena by and large has been regarded at Blizzard as a mistake and that they would like to see it phased out slowly, hence rated BGs in Cataclysm. It was either Greg Street or Tom Chilton I think. He mentioned that it was very cumbersome on the staff to constantly manage gear/spells/specs to ensure that they are not too overpowering or underwhelming in Arena, which is often times not fair to the majority of the playerbase who never step into the Arena.
When I think of people who only play to Arena, I think of 8 year old boys on Xbox Live calling me a gay homofag for sucking at Modern Warfare 2.
If Kalgan said he'd like to phase out Arenas entirely, I'd be stunned. Arenas were his baby.
That makes much more sense. I'd have a very difficult time believing Tom Chilton would even admit Arenas were a mistake, much less advocating their gradual forced obsolescence and finally removal.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2010
Rorus, I explained pretty clearly that the problem is that Arena puts more emphasis on the short term, winning with cooldowns stacked on top of each other. It's very hectic and demanding, but for the most part it's on the short term.
In regular PvP, you die, come back again, die, come back again, die, etc. etc. The battles are drawn out and long. In PvE, the fights are long by design. These are fundamentally different in design from Arena, which has the one life focus, so a short term boost can be extremely deadly.
In BGs you have teams of 10, 15, and more. In raids you have teams of 10 and 25. In Arena you have teams of 2, 3, and 5. Arena has to be balanced differently from the main game. In the context of the existing design, it doesn't make a lot of sense. In order to be inclusive you would have to account for some classes being very narrowly powerful (as the RMP composition) in direct opposition to their regular mantra of "Bring the player, not the class."
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
While there are obviously some thing that are fuxxored (Armor Pen), there is such a thing as making a game too simple. Fiddling with gear is one of the few things I have to pass the time time between my guild's failures in ICC.
I think that right there explains your logic behind this sentiment.
Do reveal, O clairvoyant sage, how that explains his logic.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I don't get the "this stat system change is making the game too simple" mentality. Correct if I'm wrong, but (as an example) for physical damage dealing classes there's only one less stat to worry about (attack power), and that was a redundant stat to begin with. For tanking classes they're taking defense away, but in exchange they're making dodge and parry separate from each other and block gets a nice change too. Casters also get only one less stat with spellpower being removed.
reVerse on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I guess for some people micro-managing things is part of the experience. Which is fine. But that's not a system for everyone. I'm willing to bet it's not a system for most people.
You could argue that yeah, it's a business and they just want more customers for money, etc, which is all well and true, but some of us (fellow game enthusiasts / forumers) are looking forward to these changes to enhance our gameplay experience. So it becomes less malevolent.
Edit - Also, micro-managing in games is something I don't mind; but I don't like it 100% of the time, and in an MMO while I can do it, it'll wear me out because MMOs are technically a never-ending game.
Henroid on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
Well, my point was, there will still be plenty of things to micromanage so these people need to stop their bitching because seriously, shut up.
As long as their "harder to reach" hit cap equates to "nice if you get it, not a big deal if you don't" and not "nice if you get it, good luck hitting squat if you don't," I'm good.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I guess for some people micro-managing things is part of the experience. Which is fine. But that's not a system for everyone. I'm willing to bet it's not a system for most people.
You could argue that yeah, it's a business and they just want more customers for money, etc, which is all well and true, but some of us (fellow game enthusiasts / forumers) are looking forward to these changes to enhance our gameplay experience. So it becomes less malevolent.
Edit - Also, micro-managing in games is something I don't mind; but I don't like it 100% of the time, and in an MMO while I can do it, it'll wear me out because MMOs are technically a never-ending game.
How is stacking AGI versus stacking ArP to a certain point any different? At the opening of WOTLK when everyone stacked STR or AGI, it was viewed as very simple. Now some classes have to stack ArP instead, but this is widely viewed with disgust and for some, a catastrophic entry into basic mathematics that has torn their brains asunder.
Bikkstah on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I guess for some people micro-managing things is part of the experience. Which is fine. But that's not a system for everyone. I'm willing to bet it's not a system for most people.
You could argue that yeah, it's a business and they just want more customers for money, etc, which is all well and true, but some of us (fellow game enthusiasts / forumers) are looking forward to these changes to enhance our gameplay experience. So it becomes less malevolent.
Edit - Also, micro-managing in games is something I don't mind; but I don't like it 100% of the time, and in an MMO while I can do it, it'll wear me out because MMOs are technically a never-ending game.
How is stacking AGI versus stacking ArP to a certain point any different? At the opening of WOTLK when everyone stacked STR or AGI, it was viewed as very simple. Now some classes have to stack ArP instead, but this is widely viewed with disgust and for some, a catastrophic entry into basic mathematics that has torn their brains asunder.
It's not really basic mathematics, that's the problem.
As long as their "harder to reach" hit cap equates to "nice if you get it, not a big deal if you don't" and not "nice if you get it, good luck hitting squat if you don't," I'm good.
Yeah the current hit cap is just high enough that it's a pain in the ass, but low enough where if you don't hit it, everyones gonna look at the WWS reports, see "MISSES: 2" and laugh at you for being a "scrub bad".
Also int to spellpower is something I've been waiting for. There was never a reason why physical classes get a stat that easily converts to damage, but not casters.
How is stacking AGI versus stacking ArP to a certain point any different? At the opening of WOTLK when everyone stacked STR or AGI, it was viewed as very simple. Now some classes have to stack ArP instead, but this is widely viewed with disgust and for some, a catastrophic entry into basic mathematics that has torn their brains asunder.
BASIC mathematics?
It's BASIC to sit there and figure out whether 9% Armor Pen does more or less to alter your damage than 30 strength/60AP, especially when one is static and armor penetration ISN'T?
The /votekick stuff you guys are mentioning is the thing that makes me not want to play WOW again.
I'm just starting to get back into it, but I'm a complete casual and have only played 2 or 3 dungeons ever.
I hate it when I make up an interesting but non-shit build/character and someone complains because it's not cookie-cutter #17.
Will I hate WOW nowadays then?
You will probably love it now. I came back after about 10 months away from it. Being a completely casual dungeon runner, I found it such a pain in the ass to find a decent pug since the guild I was in ran mostly on my off times. The random dungeon finder alone made it worth coming back. In the time it took me to run one heroic with finding the group and whatnot I can run several. It's pretty much the best thing they ever did for the way I play.
Aside from getting vote-kicked in my first Heroic after hitting 80 on my Rogue and the same on my Priest (though the situation on my Priest was just assholes from Illidan fucking with me), I have yet to be kicked from any random group. My randoms on my Priest also see a votekick one out of maybe every dozen runs or so.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I think I've only been votekicked once, and it was really just them saving me the trouble of quitting. It was in heroic Pit of Saron, on Garfrost, and the group refused to stand behind any boulders at all. So halfway through the fight (this happened three times), they'd get up to 20 stacks of the debuff (because their damage was also awful) and die horribly. They did manage to stand on my frost resist totem, though... which allows Garfrost's boulders to destroy it, over and over. Naturally, they blamed the healer, and kicked me without a word.
That sort of thing seems reasonably rare though. Not the stupidity; that's rampant. Just the kicking part.
I'm still shocked that a group actually listened to me and cleared their Frostbite stacks during a Heroic Garfrost fight. Usually I end up losing at least one DPS to it, despite my best efforts.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Posts
I had this in a DTK once where a moonkin completely lost his shit on me because I was dpsing and healing at the same time. At first he was saying things like "oh look, I guess you're doing my job for me" and such, which I interpreted in a joking manner because the tank and I were both mostly T10 so a single rejuv could keep him up. He kept at it though and took to just standing there in moonkin form on pulls without dpsing and spouting off. We were moving at a good clip so no one really stopped to ask him why he was being a silly goose but I thought it exceptionally strange to see dps freak out because I tuk der jerb.
Now when the elemental shaman insists on healing himself every single time he takes damage, I retain my right to get pissy.
Oh my god, bear is driving!
One of the staff folk also said a few weeks ago in an interview that Arena by and large has been regarded at Blizzard as a mistake and that they would like to see it phased out slowly, hence rated BGs in Cataclysm. It was either Greg Street or Tom Chilton I think. He mentioned that it was very cumbersome on the staff to constantly manage gear/spells/specs to ensure that they are not too overpowering or underwhelming in Arena, which is often times not fair to the majority of the playerbase who never step into the Arena.
When I think of people who only play to Arena, I think of 8 year old boys on Xbox Live calling me a gay homofag for sucking at Modern Warfare 2.
Was playing with my newly minted 80 Warrior yesterday and was regularly pulling aggro, even though I was only doing 1600 DPS, off the Druid tank. After a few pulls he asked me, somewhat testily "so dump (my name), you want to tank?"
To which I replied: "I don't know; do you?"
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I'm just starting to get back into it, but I'm a complete casual and have only played 2 or 3 dungeons ever.
I hate it when I make up an interesting but non-shit build/character and someone complains because it's not cookie-cutter #17.
Will I hate WOW nowadays then?
Hah!
FUCK YOU BLIZZ! I KNEW YOU WOULD DO THIS ONE DAY SO I DELETED THE APP AND ALL THE DOWNLOADED FILES WITH IT!
I'll never have the patience to download and install again! Haha!
...oh these class changes are interesting... maybe I could level my hunter again...
...maybe...10 days is OK... right? Right?
Those are the types who only focus on health bars in raids and have no situational awareness. I wonder if they have tunnel vision issues in other fields of work.
Oh, its only 7 days.
Now its not so tempting anymore!
And I am totally not just sitting here reading 6 months worth of WoW.com
Totally. Not.
Munkus's arguments break down because, simply put, most BGs will be group duels for an objective. There's a macromanagement element not seen in arenas, but it's not like having a flag suddenly changes the fight. Here too you can use a cooldown that wins the fight, which wins the objective and eventually: the game.
Your cooldown comment also doesn't make sense. You plan cooldowns in arena. You plan them in PvE. There are some PvE fights that encourage cooldown usage early in the fight and others that encourage later use. Is this not "varying"? In PvP you can burn cooldowns right off the bat for a quick kill, but the other teams has all their defensive cooldowns up still. You called it a gamble, and that's precisely what it is. You can blow your wad early on in the hopes that the team isn't ready for it or try to pressure the team without your big cooldowns in an attempt to rid them of their defensive tools.
I didn't expect Ghostcrawler to go into any further explanation than "You guys haven't played Cata yet, so don't worry about PMR." But to just blow it off as he did is worrying. It's one thing to remove arena (which would be disappointing, but thems the breaks) and to keep arena as a neglected and unbalanced thing. Duels are unbalanced too, but nobody is getting the best PvP gear in the game from them.
If Kalgan said he'd like to phase out Arenas entirely, I'd be stunned. Arenas were his baby.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
There's a 10 day burning crusade thing and a 7 day account reup thing.
I'm doing the first one now, dunno if I can do the other one too afterwards.
I have a really fast connection so it only took about an hour to DL the client...
Also you get mana back for spells that don't hit, that means they don't expect us to hit in raids?
EDIT:
Hurgle burgle, miso slow.
While there are obviously some thing that are fuxxored (Armor Pen), there is such a thing as making a game too simple. Fiddling with gear is one of the few things I have to pass the time time between my guild's failures in ICC.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
They aren't making the gear simpler, they are making it less stupid.
Simply put, a stat like Intellect, right now, is useless. You never look at it. You look at the Spell Power or the Spirit or the Haste or the Crit or whatever.
So WHY IS IT THERE?
Thus, they did the smart thing and just rolled Spell Power and Intellect into one (which is how it should have been from the start).
They are trimming the useless fat from the over-cumbersome stat tree.
Such things don't really exist.
If the build is any good, there will be a cookie-cutter build just or mostly like it.
Agility and Strength did the same thing as attack power. The only reason to have AP is to slap on it class-agnostic gear like rings or tirnkets. The same goes for Spirit and MP5.
We're losing ArPen, but getting mastery. Which is more interesting anyways. Haste, Crit and Hit aren't going anywhere.
Man, you are gonna go nuts if you keep reading this thread.
Not playing for 9 months has left me as thus.
Woo, time to do some dailies and earn some badges. ICC awaits.
STEAM | XBL | PSN
It was Rob Pardo.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
[1] [Ellaraé]: 1. My Milkshake 68 (100%)
[1] [Ellaraé]: 2. Your Milkshake 0 (0%)
This is the best thing ever.
In regular PvP, you die, come back again, die, come back again, die, etc. etc. The battles are drawn out and long. In PvE, the fights are long by design. These are fundamentally different in design from Arena, which has the one life focus, so a short term boost can be extremely deadly.
In BGs you have teams of 10, 15, and more. In raids you have teams of 10 and 25. In Arena you have teams of 2, 3, and 5. Arena has to be balanced differently from the main game. In the context of the existing design, it doesn't make a lot of sense. In order to be inclusive you would have to account for some classes being very narrowly powerful (as the RMP composition) in direct opposition to their regular mantra of "Bring the player, not the class."
I think that right there explains your logic behind this sentiment.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
You could argue that yeah, it's a business and they just want more customers for money, etc, which is all well and true, but some of us (fellow game enthusiasts / forumers) are looking forward to these changes to enhance our gameplay experience. So it becomes less malevolent.
Edit - Also, micro-managing in games is something I don't mind; but I don't like it 100% of the time, and in an MMO while I can do it, it'll wear me out because MMOs are technically a never-ending game.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
How is stacking AGI versus stacking ArP to a certain point any different? At the opening of WOTLK when everyone stacked STR or AGI, it was viewed as very simple. Now some classes have to stack ArP instead, but this is widely viewed with disgust and for some, a catastrophic entry into basic mathematics that has torn their brains asunder.
It's not really basic mathematics, that's the problem.
Yeah the current hit cap is just high enough that it's a pain in the ass, but low enough where if you don't hit it, everyones gonna look at the WWS reports, see "MISSES: 2" and laugh at you for being a "scrub bad".
Also int to spellpower is something I've been waiting for. There was never a reason why physical classes get a stat that easily converts to damage, but not casters.
BASIC mathematics?
It's BASIC to sit there and figure out whether 9% Armor Pen does more or less to alter your damage than 30 strength/60AP, especially when one is static and armor penetration ISN'T?
You will probably love it now. I came back after about 10 months away from it. Being a completely casual dungeon runner, I found it such a pain in the ass to find a decent pug since the guild I was in ran mostly on my off times. The random dungeon finder alone made it worth coming back. In the time it took me to run one heroic with finding the group and whatnot I can run several. It's pretty much the best thing they ever did for the way I play.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
That sort of thing seems reasonably rare though. Not the stupidity; that's rampant. Just the kicking part.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)