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The continuing adventures of: Chuck vs [Adjective] [Noun]

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Posts

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    theSquid wrote: »
    I was reading an avclub review of the latest Chuck episode and they brought up something I agree with that the shows lost and may be worse for it - namely the growing divide between Chuck's spy world and his civilian world.

    Before you'd often have the elements from the mundane activities from the Buy More intrude into Chuck's missions, or he'd figure out a solution that Casey and Sarah would be blind to because of something that happened in the Buy More prior - like the first ep of season two where he convinced a group of terrorists that Morgan and his Call of Duty buddies were actually a black ops team surrounding the building. That doesn't happen anymore. What happens now is he comes across a relationship problem with Sarah, and they bicker about it while doing spy stuff. It feels really lazy and its not nearly as entertaining nor does it bring me to the edge of my seat the way that the constant blurring of spy world and personal life used to.

    I understand that its evolved from that point, and that because of the pressure throughout season 3 to make Chuck a "real spy" they threw obstacles in his way that only actual spy work could overcome, until that became the status quo of the episodes. The 50% of the show that used to involve Chuck's inventiveness has now been replaced by flashing kung-fu (which I'm really tired of, by the way)

    The show is still enjoyable, but I don't think its changed for the better. It should end soon, on a graceful note.

    The show never handled the relationship and serious stuff very well from episode one.

    Do Chuck and Sarah even have on screen chemistry? Yeah, I get that they find each other attractive and they think of each other as swell. But there has to be more to the relationship than just that, right?

    Schrodinger on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, sometimes he's actually pretty bright still, and those are the stronger episodes (like the finale of the Volkoff arc). And I totally agree about the Intersect.

    But it's still more entertaining than most things on TV (especially with Friday Night Lights gone now) so I disagree about the ending soon. I think it's mostly the cast has to do more with less, and while they are all exceptionally good in these roles, I'd prefer if they didn't have to work so hard.
    Do Chuck and Sarah even have on screen chemistry? Yeah, I get that they find each other attractive and they think of each other as swell. But there has to be more to the relationship than just that, right?

    On screen, I think it was pretty obvious that Zach and Yvonne have plenty of chemistry. And you can see it in most episodes in the first two seasons and sometimes in the third season (Honeymooners in particular). What it seems like you're asking is as characters why are those two attracted to each other besides that they think the other is hot. And the simple answer is that they were both very lost, very broken people with severe abandonment issues who are anchors for each other in terms of fixing themselves. And there's an interesting discussion as to whether or not that is at all healthy.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    theSquid wrote: »
    I was reading an avclub review of the latest Chuck episode and they brought up something I agree with that the shows lost and may be worse for it - namely the growing divide between Chuck's spy world and his civilian world.

    Before you'd often have the elements from the mundane activities from the Buy More intrude into Chuck's missions, or he'd figure out a solution that Casey and Sarah would be blind to because of something that happened in the Buy More prior - like the first ep of season two where he convinced a group of terrorists that Morgan and his Call of Duty buddies were actually a black ops team surrounding the building. That doesn't happen anymore. What happens now is he comes across a relationship problem with Sarah, and they bicker about it while doing spy stuff. It feels really lazy and its not nearly as entertaining nor does it bring me to the edge of my seat the way that the constant blurring of spy world and personal life used to.

    I understand that its evolved from that point, and that because of the pressure throughout season 3 to make Chuck a "real spy" they threw obstacles in his way that only actual spy work could overcome, until that became the status quo of the episodes. The 50% of the show that used to involve Chuck's inventiveness has now been replaced by flashing kung-fu (which I'm really tired of, by the way)

    The show is still enjoyable, but I don't think its changed for the better. It should end soon, on a graceful note.

    The show never handled the relationship and serious stuff very well from episode one.

    Do Chuck and Sarah even have on screen chemistry? Yeah, I get that they find each other attractive and they think of each other as swell. But there has to be more to the relationship than just that, right?

    Chuck's attraction to Sarah amounts to "I was a loser with a shitty job and now I'm hanging around an insanely hot girl who I have to make out with in public." That was it. The super awkward conversation Sarah had with Morgan a couple of weeks ago would apply just as equally to Chuck if he didn't have a magic kung fu button in his head.

    theSquid on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, Sarah is like an angel with a gun and slight family problems. Chuck is James Bond with a gamer background and feelings. I can see how they were drawn to each other, and don't see how anyone missed the chemistry between the two. They introduced characters apparently for the sole purpose of showing how much chemistry they do not have with other people, even!

    There's no reason the Buy More can't still produce the solution to any problem. There just also no reason for it to do it, either. Whereas showing Chuck handle a situation on his own props up the growth.

    Xeddicus on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Slight? The woman only sometimes feels/felt connection to humanity. She's fucked up.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Based on how she's been so callous and disconnected towards everything and everyone since she's showed up? Sarah has problems, yeah, but she's not anywhere near "fucked up". 'Normal' people have as many issues.

    Xeddicus on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Finale will be on May 16.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Now the question is will it be the season or series finale...

    Xeddicus on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yikes, that was bad.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Agreed. They had a good thing going for a second when
    Chuck tried to steal the laptop because his father wouldn't have wanted it used that way.

    I thought they were sowing the seeds of an eventual split between Team Bartowski and the intelligence community -- Team Bartowski going rogue (for an entire season, possibly longer) is one of my fantasy plot developments.

    The rest of it, in terms of plot, was predictable and overdone. Morgan and Jeffster were still enjoyable as always, and I loved the Final Fantasy thing, but that's really just minor stuff in the midst of an otherwise meh episode.

    Gandalf_the_Crazed on
    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh shit, there was a new episode?

    Undead Scottsman on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah, I thought new episodes were next Monday.

    TexiKen on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah, this episode, like all, had it's moments, but the entire setup was nonsensical. The plot is getting so bad I can barely stand it anymore.

    Houn on
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    That product placement for the Sienna.

    That. Placement. HURGH.

    I'm sorry, the only way Chuck should be allowed to plug anything that hard is if it's Subway.

    Dac on
    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I liked how it went all dark at the end. Few good moments with Morgan and Jeff/Lester. The rest needed a bit more drama or Sarah shooting Vicki or something, though, yeah. Was ok overall.

    Xeddicus on
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Dac wrote: »
    That product placement for the Sienna.

    That. Placement. HURGH.

    I'm sorry, the only way Chuck should be allowed to plug anything that hard is if it's Subway.

    It's been that bad the whole show - they've had some pretty bad Honda ones in the earlier seasons.

    a5ehren on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I did like that they acknowledged Chuck was still a special Intersect, with the big Greta being so relieved to have it out after a couple weeks. Though from the preview it looks like they're going to play it like it has less to do with his brain and more to do with being a geek?

    Tofystedeth on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    That product placement for the Sienna.

    That. Placement. HURGH.

    I'm sorry, the only way Chuck should be allowed to plug anything that hard is if it's Subway.

    It's been that bad the whole show - they've had some pretty bad Honda ones in the earlier seasons.

    At least they had the grace to have Sarah be annoyed by it.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I don't watch evil previews, but I wonder how Ellie is going to react to what happened. Whatever actually happened, too...

    Xeddicus on
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    That product placement for the Sienna.

    That. Placement. HURGH.

    I'm sorry, the only way Chuck should be allowed to plug anything that hard is if it's Subway.

    It's been that bad the whole show - they've had some pretty bad Honda ones in the earlier seasons.

    At least they had the grace to have Sarah be annoyed by it.

    I guess it's been a while. I don't remember being that annoyed by their product placement before.

    Oh well.

    Dac on
    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It was definitely some of the worst they've done. Usually they spend quite so long extolling the various features.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    A 1.6: Figures, Nielsen and daylight savings don't mix.

    Xeddicus on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ok, a few things:

    1. They've been hinting forever that there's something specific to Chuck's brain that makes the intersect work; see all the failed intersect experiments historically, but the Gretas work just fine?
    2. Then we got the whole "magic watch" thing that even Chuck and Shaw needed to keep their intersects from overheating or whatever. The Gretas don't?
    3. The only thing special about Chuck in this episode is that he was thinking along with the Intersect data. The Gretas were better at being Intersect-enabled Soldiers, not Intelligence Operatives. The Intersect itself was not the problem, merely the experience/personalities of the people using it.
    4. At the start of the Ep, the General is all "We all have our orders," then at the end, she's chastising the Director chick as if she was in charge. DOES NOT COMPUTE.
    5. Put the bomb on the plane, start flying, disarm it while moving it away from metropolitan areas. Best of both worlds.
    6. Everything they do lately seems to be artificial problems; secret CIA bases inside bases, requests being authorized then retracted, stupid overblown couple arguments, etc.

    This show has really started scraping the bottom of the barrel. I think it's grown to tell the story it intended (Nerdy guy gets drawn into a world he's not a part of and rises to succeed within it), and it's time to gracefully close it out.

    Houn on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah. I'm still having fun watching the show, but I wouldn't mind if it ended (with an actual ending, no early kills or whatever) then we got to see these people in other stuff.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Houn wrote: »
    This show has really started scraping the bottom of the barrel. I think it's grown to tell the story it intended (Nerdy guy gets drawn into a world he's not a part of and rises to succeed within it), and it's time to gracefully close it out.

    I'm in the same boat. If they get another season, I hope they approach it with the intent to finish the show. Get a set number of episodes, and declare immediately that it'll be the last season. I'd love to see them go out on their own terms after living on the brink.

    Bobble on
  • KronusKronus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Man I really liked last night's episode. The product placement was obvious but Chuck was having fun with it so I didn't care. It was more fun than I had had for a few weeks, the bomb disarming was great. I would be fine with more Chuck saving the day by ridiculously unconventional means, he solved the problem using his brain and not bumbling through it or relying on the intersect.

    That being said, I'm starting to feel like Chuck and Sarah, they really need a big bad. I liked Volkoff on screen but he never seemed to cause any real danger. He's a big weapons dealer smuggler guy who apparently didn't have access to his stuff because it was in someone's eye and whaaaaat? I like where the Vivian thing is going and I hope they set it up for a good arc next season. Chuck and Sarah need to get knocked down a peg somehow, the writers are quickly running out of challenges for the team as is.

    Kronus on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Kronus wrote: »
    Man I really liked last night's episode. The product placement was obvious but Chuck was having fun with it so I didn't care. It was more fun than I had had for a few weeks, the bomb disarming was great. I would be fine with more Chuck saving the day by ridiculously unconventional means, he solved the problem using his brain and not bumbling through it or relying on the intersect.

    That being said, I'm starting to feel like Chuck and Sarah, they really need a big bad. I liked Volkoff on screen but he never seemed to cause any real danger. He's a big weapons dealer smuggler guy who apparently didn't have access to his stuff because it was in someone's eye and whaaaaat? I like where the Vivian thing is going and I hope they set it up for a good arc next season. Chuck and Sarah need to get knocked down a peg somehow, the writers are quickly running out of challenges for the team as is.

    I agree with the need for a big-bad. I was thinking (hoping really) that that was the way they'd take Casey's new team, especially after they revealed that they were intersects as well. Could have been cool to have the intersect agents go rogue, and the team gets an enemy that can match them evenly.

    see317 on
  • theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah but they already did that with Shaw.

    That being said I liked yesterdays ep. Involved some plot threads I could give a fuck about. (Not inane relationship problems)

    theSquid on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I liked yesterday's episode because of Stacy Keibler. <3<3<3

    Lucascraft on
  • frandelgearslipfrandelgearslip 457670Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Houn wrote: »
    This show has really started scraping the bottom of the barrel. I think it's grown to tell the story it intended (Nerdy guy gets drawn into a world he's not a part of and rises to succeed within it), and it's time to gracefully close it out.

    I agree completely. The problem is that Chuck is not expertly plotted (even there best plots would only be equal to a pretty good BSG or Whedon plot), the show worked because of characters and the overall situation Chuck was in. Chuck essentially had 5 interrelated problems that carried the show from episode to episode:

    1. He was a loser.
    2. He was stuck acting as a hero when he did not want and was not cut out to be one.
    3. He was a too-trusting individual interacting with two handlers and an organization he should not trust.
    4. He needed to get out from under the thumb of the CIA/NSA
    5. He was in love with Sara :P

    All that crap was dealt with and eliminated long ago (most of it at the end of season 2). There is no conflict left except what any individual episode brings and they either don't have the skills or won't bother to write plots that can carry the show by themselves.

    This episode is the perfect example in the earlier seasons if the CIA had created some professional Intersects the episode would have been about the fact that the CIA/NSA had ordered Chuck's death now that he is no longer neccesary and Casey and Sara having to decide their loyalties and Chuck trying to figure out who to trust while staying alive and proving his value. Instead the episode is about Chuck and Sara being bored because they have not been getting that many missions lately. One version of the episode is inherently more interesting before you even begin writing.

    frandelgearslip on
  • theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Dont forget character decay. The character of Chuck is becoming disturbingly reminiscent of later season JD.

    In fact Chuck is reminding me a whole lot about what Scrubs eventually turned into. Do they share any writers?

    theSquid on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Bill Lawrence himself is on Cougar Town and I bet took most of his staff with him. Most of the Chuck writers left for higher positions with other shows (which have since been canceled) and one of them just came back and this was his first episode since season 2. That's Phil Klemmer, who wrote a lot of my favorite season 2 episodes and was a writer on Veronica Mars where he wrote some excellent episodes. So I was sad to not like it.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    We'll be lucky to get one more season I'd say, so the end is in sight (for real real this time?). I still think they can make it awesome, a few missteps are nothing new. As long as they don't kill everyone I'll probably be happy.

    Xeddicus on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm still pondering why the Greta said it was a relief to get the Intersect out of his head, and felt sorry for Chuck. They didn't seem to be too bothered when it was in their head. Did it like... alter their personalities too? Like, conscious possession or something?

    hippofant on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Most likely it was just them being professional about it and manning up aka not being like old-Chuck and whining about something that bothers them when they have a job to do. Once he got it out, though, it was a brief moment of 'I'm glad that's over.'.

    Xeddicus on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    hippofant wrote: »
    I'm still pondering why the Greta said it was a relief to get the Intersect out of his head, and felt sorry for Chuck. They didn't seem to be too bothered when it was in their head. Did it like... alter their personalities too? Like, conscious possession or something?

    I thought there was a line about the Gretas intersect being modified to minimize emotional reactions, though I may have misheard.
    Still, it's got to be a bit weird (especially for a CIA agent) to be walking around then suddenly flashing on shit all over the office. From what we've seen Chuck can only stop flashing with the whole out of control emotions thing that he apparently got over a while ago.

    Can you imagine how annoying that must be? You look in the filing cabinet, you're stuck there for a half an hour flashing on every damned file name you see. You don't need to flash, you've got the file right in front of you if you wanted the information, but you flash anyway because you're the intersect and that's what you do. Or going through the armory, or walking through the training room. Anywhere you go in Castle, just constant flashing on everything.

    see317 on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, it's like in the midseason finale in season 3, when Chuck is trying to track down Superman who's taken Sarah. Casey hands him a bunch of files on the guy and he starts flashing momentarily, until Casey explains that it's not about trying to flash, it's about using the information in the files to figure out where Superman's got Sarah.

    Presumably, he's figured out a way to suppress flashes, or else he'd never have been able to do it.

    Terrendos on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Not sure that's the case. The big thing was learning to trigger them, not suppress them. But then they never cleared up whether or not he needed the governor, what Mama B did (to my satisfaction), what the laptop did (again, to my satisfaction) so the intricacies of the Intersect and Chuck are boiled down to "he's special".

    Xeddicus on
  • frandelgearslipfrandelgearslip 457670Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Not sure that's the case. The big thing was learning to trigger them, not suppress them. But then they never cleared up whether or not he needed the governor, what Mama B did (to my satisfaction), what the laptop did (again, to my satisfaction) so the intricacies of the Intersect and Chuck are boiled down to "he's special".

    Wanting indepth logical explanations and no plotholes for anything on Chuck is like slamming your head against a brick wall. Alan Sepinwall the shows biggest supporter has a plothole of the week section in his recaps.

    frandelgearslip on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out a few of those plotholes as relating specifically to the Intersect for shits and giggles.

    Xeddicus on
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